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LifeFuel why we will have non-sentient female android robots in 2032 and reverse aging in 2052. Thread version 2.0

barcacel

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The relationship between quantum mechanics isn’t clear and we don’t know what the relationship is. But saying it somehow solves the origin of consciousness seems sus.


So he’s equating consciousness with information processing and memory in the brain?


All cells in the body have microtubules, but we are only conscious of a small amount stuff that goes on.
computers can't have quantum coherence
quantum coherence is a mechanism proposed by which quantum coherence as accelerating electric currents in neurons may result in a broadened spectrum of electromagnetic radiation capable of interacting with molecular complexes in the brain and perhaps elsewhere in an organism to influence vibrational and structural properties.
 
barcacel

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Why would that cause subjectivity?
"Quantum computers use both classical and quantum processors. When the qubits in the quantum processor ‘collapse’ to become classical bits, the data is processed by the classical processor. Human brains may likewise be classical-quantum combos, with the brain’s complex networks of neurons interpreting the classical information that is generated by quantum processes operating in the brain when the wavefunction collapses. Of course, this assumes that there are quantum processes in the human brain. Are there?

Earlier there was speculation as to whether quantum coherence was present in microtubules of neurons where Bose-Einstein condensates could occur, by Hameroff and Penrose. More recently, Fisher provided a model where nuclear spins in phosphorus atoms, which are abundant in the brain, could serve as qubits. (This model has been discussed more fully in the article The Quantum Computer in your Brain.)

Fisher showed that the nuclei of phosphorus atoms could be sufficiently isolated (by the protective cloud of electrons) to preserve quantum coherence for even up to 5 minutes. He found that quantum coherence times could be further extended by shielding them within Posner molecules. These molecules consist of clusters of 6 phosphorus and 9 calcium atoms, which protected the entangled nuclei from outside interference and quantum noise, enabling them to maintain coherence for much longer periods of time — sometimes even up to a day, according to Fisher’s calculations.

Danah Zohar’s characterization of the wave as representing the mind and the particle as the body is a useful one. (Zohar studied Physics and Philosophy at MIT and did postgraduate work in Philosophy, Religion & Psychology at Harvard University.)

While the nuclei of these phosphorus atoms are in a superposed state, existing as waves — they are literally what constitutes the “mind” in the brain.

When these waves collapse, they generate responses from electrons in the phosphorus atoms. Electrons determine the chemical properties of atoms. The ‘’disturbance’’ from the collapse (or change in quantum state) causes the chemical properties of the phosphorus atoms to change, resulting in a cascade of chemical reactions which send neurotransmitters into the synapses of neurons. The train of electrochemical signals then integrate to form a perception, which is interpreted, based on the life-experiences of the person."
 
barcacel

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"Quantum computers use both classical and quantum processors. When the qubits in the quantum processor ‘collapse’ to become classical bits, the data is processed by the classical processor. Human brains may likewise be classical-quantum combos, with the brain’s complex networks of neurons interpreting the classical information that is generated by quantum processes operating in the brain when the wavefunction collapses. Of course, this assumes that there are quantum processes in the human brain. Are there?

Earlier there was speculation as to whether quantum coherence was present in microtubules of neurons where Bose-Einstein condensates could occur, by Hameroff and Penrose. More recently, Fisher provided a model where nuclear spins in phosphorus atoms, which are abundant in the brain, could serve as qubits. (This model has been discussed more fully in the article The Quantum Computer in your Brain.)

Fisher showed that the nuclei of phosphorus atoms could be sufficiently isolated (by the protective cloud of electrons) to preserve quantum coherence for even up to 5 minutes. He found that quantum coherence times could be further extended by shielding them within Posner molecules. These molecules consist of clusters of 6 phosphorus and 9 calcium atoms, which protected the entangled nuclei from outside interference and quantum noise, enabling them to maintain coherence for much longer periods of time — sometimes even up to a day, according to Fisher’s calculations.

Danah Zohar’s characterization of the wave as representing the mind and the particle as the body is a useful one. (Zohar studied Physics and Philosophy at MIT and did postgraduate work in Philosophy, Religion & Psychology at Harvard University.)

While the nuclei of these phosphorus atoms are in a superposed state, existing as waves — they are literally what constitutes the “mind” in the brain.

When these waves collapse, they generate responses from electrons in the phosphorus atoms. Electrons determine the chemical properties of atoms. The ‘’disturbance’’ from the collapse (or change in quantum state) causes the chemical properties of the phosphorus atoms to change, resulting in a cascade of chemical reactions which send neurotransmitters into the synapses of neurons. The train of electrochemical signals then integrate to form a perception, which is interpreted, based on the life-experiences of the person."

only quantum computers and our brains can enter the quantum world, normal computers can't
 
Copexodius Maximus

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the atoms in the machines are dead, the cells in humans are alive
Life is just a collection of arbitrary characteristics

only quantum computers and our brains can enter the quantum world, normal computers can't
Everything is a result of quantum stuff in the end.
 
barcacel

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Everything is a result of quantum stuff in the end.
machines that are not quantum computers can't have consciousness, are you gonna tell me that a rock has consciousness? a rock and a normal computer can't enter the quantum world so therefore they don't have consciousness, just because an AI is programmed to act like a conscious being doesn't mean it has consciousness because it can't maintain quantum coherence
 
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barcacel

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Life is just a collection of arbitrary characteristics
but consciousness is not, are you gonna be one of those people that think that their shit or their food is alive and has consciousness just because it's made of atoms?
 
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Copexodius Maximus

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machines that are not quantum computers can't have consciousness, are you gonna tell me that a rock has consciousness? a rock and a normal computer can't enter the quantum world so therefore they don't have consciousness, just because an AI is programmed to act like a conscious being doesn't mean it has consciousness because it can't maintain quantum coherence
Literally everything physical is quantum mechanics in the end, since it’s all made up of it. And as for rocks, how would I know? That’s impossible to know.

but consciousness is not, are you gonna be one of those people that think that their shit or their food is alive and has consciousness just because it's made of atoms?
No, but life is obviously a result of the interaction of particles. Consciousness is an enigma though.
 
barcacel

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Literally everything physical is quantum mechanics in the end, since it’s all made up of it. And as for rocks, how would I know? That’s impossible to know.
Yeah your shit and rocks also have consciousness because they are made of atoms, even the air you breath and floor you are standing on needs to have rights, so you should be put on jail or be killed for the crimes that you are making
 
barcacel

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No, but life is obviously a result of the interaction of particles. Consciousness is an enigma though.
"Quantum computers use both classical and quantum processors. When the qubits in the quantum processor ‘collapse’ to become classical bits, the data is processed by the classical processor. Human brains may likewise be classical-quantum combos, with the brain’s complex networks of neurons interpreting the classical information that is generated by quantum processes operating in the brain when the wavefunction collapses. Of course, this assumes that there are quantum processes in the human brain. Are there?

Earlier there was speculation as to whether quantum coherence was present in microtubules of neurons where Bose-Einstein condensates could occur, by Hameroff and Penrose. More recently, Fisher provided a model where nuclear spins in phosphorus atoms, which are abundant in the brain, could serve as qubits. (This model has been discussed more fully in the article The Quantum Computer in your Brain.)

Fisher showed that the nuclei of phosphorus atoms could be sufficiently isolated (by the protective cloud of electrons) to preserve quantum coherence for even up to 5 minutes. He found that quantum coherence times could be further extended by shielding them within Posner molecules. These molecules consist of clusters of 6 phosphorus and 9 calcium atoms, which protected the entangled nuclei from outside interference and quantum noise, enabling them to maintain coherence for much longer periods of time — sometimes even up to a day, according to Fisher’s calculations.

Danah Zohar’s characterization of the wave as representing the mind and the particle as the body is a useful one. (Zohar studied Physics and Philosophy at MIT and did postgraduate work in Philosophy, Religion & Psychology at Harvard University.)

While the nuclei of these phosphorus atoms are in a superposed state, existing as waves — they are literally what constitutes the “mind” in the brain.

When these waves collapse, they generate responses from electrons in the phosphorus atoms. Electrons determine the chemical properties of atoms. The ‘’disturbance’’ from the collapse (or change in quantum state) causes the chemical properties of the phosphorus atoms to change, resulting in a cascade of chemical reactions which send neurotransmitters into the synapses of neurons. The train of electrochemical signals then integrate to form a perception, which is interpreted, based on the life-experiences of the person."

Can you please read what I write?

 
Copexodius Maximus

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Yeah your shit and rocks also have consciousness because they are made of atoms, even the air you breath and floor you are standing on needs to have rights, so you should be put on jail or be killed for the crimes that you are making
I said it’s impossible to know. Everything is a result of the quantum world in the end.

"Quantum computers use both classical and quantum processors. When the qubits in the quantum processor ‘collapse’ to become classical bits, the data is processed by the classical processor. Human brains may likewise be classical-quantum combos, with the brain’s complex networks of neurons interpreting the classical information that is generated by quantum processes operating in the brain when the wavefunction collapses. Of course, this assumes that there are quantum processes in the human brain. Are there?

Earlier there was speculation as to whether quantum coherence was present in microtubules of neurons where Bose-Einstein condensates could occur, by Hameroff and Penrose. More recently, Fisher provided a model where nuclear spins in phosphorus atoms, which are abundant in the brain, could serve as qubits. (This model has been discussed more fully in the article The Quantum Computer in your Brain.)

Fisher showed that the nuclei of phosphorus atoms could be sufficiently isolated (by the protective cloud of electrons) to preserve quantum coherence for even up to 5 minutes. He found that quantum coherence times could be further extended by shielding them within Posner molecules. These molecules consist of clusters of 6 phosphorus and 9 calcium atoms, which protected the entangled nuclei from outside interference and quantum noise, enabling them to maintain coherence for much longer periods of time — sometimes even up to a day, according to Fisher’s calculations.

Danah Zohar’s characterization of the wave as representing the mind and the particle as the body is a useful one. (Zohar studied Physics and Philosophy at MIT and did postgraduate work in Philosophy, Religion & Psychology at Harvard University.)

While the nuclei of these phosphorus atoms are in a superposed state, existing as waves — they are literally what constitutes the “mind” in the brain.

When these waves collapse, they generate responses from electrons in the phosphorus atoms. Electrons determine the chemical properties of atoms. The ‘’disturbance’’ from the collapse (or change in quantum state) causes the chemical properties of the phosphorus atoms to change, resulting in a cascade of chemical reactions which send neurotransmitters into the synapses of neurons. The train of electrochemical signals then integrate to form a perception, which is interpreted, based on the life-experiences of the person."

Can you please read what I write?


So when things are in a wave form they are mind? But when in solid particle form they are matter? That just sounds like complete speculation tbh.
 
barcacel

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So when things are in a wave form they are mind? But when in solid particle form they are matter? That just sounds like complete speculation tbh.
you need to understand that we humans are made of cells and machines are made of non-living matter, consciousness is only something beings made of living matter can feel because the word "consciousness" is referring to the consciousness that only beings made of living matter can feel, whatever a machine feels and experiences, can't be felt by beings made of living matter because they are made of different materials, it should be fake because it's just a simulation of our consciousness and not an emulation (to be an emulation you need cells)
 
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barcacel

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I said it’s impossible to know. Everything is a result of the quantum world in the end.
molecules and atoms are not alive, cells are alive, machines are not made of cells, humans are
 
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Copexodius Maximus

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you need to understand that we humans are made of cells and machines are made of non-living matter, consciousness is only something beings made of living matter can feel because the word "consciousness" is referring to the consciousness that only beings made of living matter can feel, whatever a machine feels and experiences, can't be felt by beings made of living matter because they are made of different materials, it should be fake because it's just a simulation of our consciousness and not an emulation (to be an emulation you need cells)
We don’t know that. Cells are made of the same things as all non-living things as well. Why does being able to reproduce and such make them more prone to being conscious? And consciousness is consciousness. If somehow a machine has someone inside feeling the experiences like we do, it’s the same as far as I’m concerned.

molecules and atoms are not alive, cells are alive, machines are not made of cells, humans are
Here is what life is defined as:

14617DD7 FFA7 47DC BF8A A176EFC98DB9


Which one of these characteristics is important in cells that isn’t in non-living things that makes it be able to have consciousness but machines can’t?
 
barcacel

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We don’t know that. Cells are made of the same things as all non-living things as well. Why does being able to reproduce and such make them more prone to being conscious? And consciousness is consciousness. If somehow a machine has someone inside feeling the experiences like we do, it’s the same as far as I’m concerned.
non-living matter is not alive so therefore is dead
 
barcacel

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Here is what life is defined as:

View attachment 731569

Which one of these characteristics is important in cells that isn’t in non-living things that makes it be able to have consciousness but machines can’t?
We consider cells to be alive largely because of processes performed such as respiration and reproduction. Cells also contain genetic material in the form of DNA. While cells are largely made up of macromolecules, it is the cell itself that is the unit by which these processes take place.
 
Copexodius Maximus

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We consider cells to be alive largely because of processes performed such as respiration and reproduction. Cells also contain genetic material in the form of DNA. While cells are largely made up of macromolecules, it is the cell itself that is the unit by which these processes take place.
all of them except 8
So how do any of those things mean consciousness will arise in them?
 
barcacel

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So how do any of those things mean consciousness will arise in them?
because they are alive, everything that has cells is alive and has more consciousness the more complex the organism becomes
 
Copexodius Maximus

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because they are alive, everything that has cells is alive and has more consciousness the more complex the organism becomes
Why does consciousness arise with complexity? That’s the same things information processing proponents argue, but have no explanation for the phenomenon.
 
barcacel

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Why does consciousness arise with complexity? That’s the same things information processing proponents argue, but have no explanation for the phenomenon.
because we are alive, machines are not alive
 
Copexodius Maximus

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because we are alive, machines are not alive
Why does that matter? Stop repeating the same shit, I literally already asked you why being alive matters and you told me it’s because of the first 7 traits of being alive. I then asked you how any of them make things conscious and you said because of increasing complexity. Then asked why that causes consciousness, you said they’re alive. You just went around in a circle, and consciousness was not explained in any part of this.
 
barcacel

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Why does that matter? Stop repeating the same shit, I literally already asked you why being alive matters and you told me it’s because of the first 7 traits of being alive. I then asked you how any of them make things conscious and you said because of increasing complexity. Then asked why that causes consciousness, you said they’re alive. You just went around in a circle, and consciousness was not explained in any part of this.
because we are alive, i'm gonna keep repeating the same thing
 
barcacel

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Why does that matter? Stop repeating the same shit, I literally already asked you why being alive matters and you told me it’s because of the first 7 traits of being alive. I then asked you how any of them make things conscious and you said because of increasing complexity. Then asked why that causes consciousness, you said they’re alive. You just went around in a circle, and consciousness was not explained in any part of this.
Chemistry, for the most part. Consciousness, as an “emergent property” of the electrochemical processes of the brain, is governed by the activity of the neurons, axons, neurotransmitters, and more.
 
Copexodius Maximus

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because we are alive, i'm gonna keep repeating the same thing
So you have no explanation. Just retardedly repeating “we are conscious because we are alive bro”

Chemistry, for the most part. Consciousness, as an “emergent property” of the electrochemical processes of the brain, is governed by the activity of the neurons, axons, neurotransmitters, and more.
Emergent property theory, now you are getting somewhere. It’s basically creating a new kind of existence out of purely physical matter like a miracle then.
 
barcacel

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Why does that matter? Stop repeating the same shit, I literally already asked you why being alive matters and you told me it’s because of the first 7 traits of being alive. I then asked you how any of them make things conscious and you said because of increasing complexity. Then asked why that causes consciousness, you said they’re alive. You just went around in a circle, and consciousness was not explained in any part of this.
you can say, how do you know if consciousness exist?

but then how do you know if machines made of non-living matter are alive? if machines are not alive then they don't deserve rights
 
Copexodius Maximus

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you can say, how do you know if consciousness exist, then how do you know if machines made of non-living matter are alive?
We know consciousness exists because we experience it directly. It is the only thing we can ever know that actually exists.

Machines are not alive because it doesn’t match the characteristics of life. If it could reproduce, use energy from environment, respond to stimuli, etc it would be a living thing then.
 
barcacel

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AnilBashir

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InMemoriam

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on the real tho with everything going on this feminized joke of a planet i we wont live long enough to witness it
 
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Why does that matter?
If something dead can demonstrably possess consciousness, then arguably it's not dead. Having consciousness is a property of the state of being alive i.e., life and being alive are prerequisites of consciousness. It's defined that way, but we also know it from observational inference.

Also, come back you fucking kike. Why'd you leave?
 
Count Yorga

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The relationship between quantum mechanics isn’t clear and we don’t know what the relationship is. But saying it somehow solves the origin of consciousness seems sus.


So he’s equating consciousness with information processing and memory in the brain?


All cells in the body have microtubules, but we are only conscious of a small amount stuff that goes on.
 
NoCopeNoHope

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only quantum computers and our brains can enter the quantum world, normal computers can't
Quantum computers and wetware (neuron based computers).
 
NoCopeNoHope

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you can say, how do you know if consciousness exist?

but then how do you know if machines made of non-living matter are alive? if machines are not alive then they don't deserve rights
Just because something is alive does not mean it deserves rights. Animals are alive and they have no rights. Rights are a contractual agreement between humans to streamline the civilization and prevent said civilization from collapsing into a mass of incoherent violence.
 
copefrancis

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:soy: <computers getting faster means we will live forever
 
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The problem with android robots like you see in exmachina is how fucking inefficient they are for us to currently make. We're going to need a big leap in the actual hardware tech that powers these things if we want to see affordable humanoid robots because what we have now is mostly gimmicky shit that needs insane amounts of programming to do simple tasks like walk or anything else they're programmed to do. I fear that we won't really see these things become affordable in our lifetimes unless we adopt a movement away from bipedal human like humanoid robots into something oriented to just do one specific task.

Say you were going to animate a sex doll into something that has bipedal movement, you would need a shitload of servos and wiring which isn't the biggest roadblock. Actually being able to power the damn thing would be the huge limiting factor unless you wanted it to have a battery pack the size of a landwhale or just be permanently plugged into an outlet which IMO would ruin the experience. You also need advanced gyroscopes which can keep the damn thing from falling over.

I have a lot of hope for the future of robots but I'm not sure humanoid androids are going to be something we see at an affordable level for AT LEAST the next 20+ years, I think AR combined with a physical medium like a sex doll is going to be the 'in-between' for the time being.
 
Robtical

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Interesting but ngl I don’t really like transhumanism i think the root of our problems heavily comes from the digital age.
It can't get worse. We won't go from 0 pussy to negative numbers of pussy. It can only go up from here after adding new technologies, especially things like sexbots and artificial wombs that can make most foids obsolete.
 

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