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What imo the West should let Russia take back in EE/Balkans

W

WizardofSoda

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-Ukraine
-Moldova

-Hungary
-Transylvania in Romania, that Hungary wants back.

-Slovakia (Germany can take Czechia)
-East Poland (Germany can take back West Poland)

-the 3 Baltic states (ask Russia if those could become neutral along with Finland)
-Bulgaria

-Serbia (and any areas Serbia reasonably wants back like Kosovo)
-Belarus (Belarus, Serbia and Hungary are with Russia anyway)



Ok so then there would be close to back to the old Cold War lines. Russia could then feel secure. And Russia would know if it came for Germany then its a world war. Germany would also be up over 100 million people and we would be stationing massive armies there and the German army building up.


For the West this sounds bad but actually we wouldn't be giving up that much. Most of those places besides the 3 Baltic states were never really with the West anyway. Thats why I said ask Russia if the Baltic states can be neutral.
 
Well, thats never gonna happen. Real life isnt hearts of iron iv
 
anything that is NATO is safe from "Special Military Operation". Moldova will be taken easily if take Odessa and Nikolayev
 
And why would the West/NATO ever do that:feelshaha::feelskek:? Literally never in history has any empire just voluntarily shrunk and let it's much weaker rival take over its areas, why would NATO do so for a country that is being stalemated by an Africa-tier economy:feelskek:?

anything that is NATO is safe from "Special Military Operation".
Exactly:feelskek:. The Baltic countries put together have about 1/6th or 1/7th of Ukraine's population, have no real domestic weapons industry while the latter has a decent one, and are arguably an even bigger threat to Russia given how close they are to St.Petersburg, yet there are still people who say that Russia isn't scared of a confrontation with NATO despite them letting the Baltics be and attacking the much larger Ukraine instead:feelskek::feelskek:.

Well, thats never gonna happen. Real life isnt hearts of iron iv
Russia has no leverage and I don't see what the West would gain from this.
 
Fuck Russia, if Russia will attack my Baltic country, i will drop a meteorite to fucking Russia, and start an earthquake that will DESTROY Russia to the ground, and then i will destroy Jewrope as well, and then USA fuck them all!!!!
 
And why would the West/NATO ever do that:feelshaha::feelskek:? Literally never in history has any empire just voluntarily shrunk and let it's much weaker rival take over its areas, why would NATO do so for a country that is being stalemated by an Africa-tier economy:feelskek:?
Russian economy is not Africa-tier by any indicators.
 
I wasn't referring to Russia with that description.
Ukraine also isn't Africa-tier. Ukraine has corruption problem but it relatively developed country with defence and aerospace industry.
 
And why would the West/NATO ever do that:feelshaha::feelskek:? Literally never in history has any empire just voluntarily shrunk and let it's much weaker rival take over its areas, why would NATO do so for a country that is being stalemated by an Africa-tier economy:feelskek:?


Exactly:feelskek:. The Baltic countries put together have about 1/6th or 1/7th of Ukraine's population, have no real domestic weapons industry while the latter has a decent one, and are arguably an even bigger threat to Russia given how close they are to St.Petersburg, yet there are still people who say that Russia isn't scared of a confrontation with NATO despite them letting the Baltics be and attacking the much larger Ukraine instead:feelskek::feelskek:.


Russia by itself isn't a big problem because they would have ran out of money and manufacturing and they would have 1970's era technology. But since China is backing them with money, manufacturing and technology its a big problem. Its like how Ukraine would have collapsed in 3 months, but with the West bankrolling them and sending in weaponry Ukraine is still fighting almost 2 years in.
 
Russia by itself isn't a big problem because they would have ran out of money and manufacturing and they would have 1970's era technology. But since China is backing them with money, manufacturing and technology its a big problem. Its like how Ukraine would have collapsed in 3 months, but with the West bankrolling them and sending in weaponry Ukraine is still fighting almost 2 years in.
They are already being supported by China in just about every way short of it joining the war and they still chose to attack Ukraine rather than challenge anyone in an actual alliance with the US. As closely allied as they are, I just don't see Chinese leadership joining any way against the US and Europe with a very uncertain outcome other than the near-certainty of world economy being torn to shreds, especially if they have just about nothing to gain from that. The only thing they care about is Taiwan, which they can easily get back just by being patient. No need to needlessly join a world war.

Honestly, rather than continuing the confrontation with the West, Russia seems to be mostly giving up on Europe and orienting itself towards the East. Not sure if you've caught their newest defense/foreign policy white paper, where they are putting their relationships with China, India and SEA as priorities while the West is at the very bottom. Seems like they are just trying to get as much as they can from the Ukraine war, before completely giving up on Europe.
 
Would NATO actually defend Baltics or would they send weapons and bullets and rockets but no boots on the ground
 
They are already being supported by China in just about every way short of it joining the war and they still chose to attack Ukraine rather than challenge anyone in an actual alliance with the US. As closely allied as they are, I just don't see Chinese leadership joining any way against the US and Europe with a very uncertain outcome other than the near-certainty of world economy being torn to shreds, especially if they have just about nothing to gain from that. The only thing they care about is Taiwan, which they can easily get back just by being patient. No need to needlessly join a world war.

Honestly, rather than continuing the confrontation with the West, Russia seems to be mostly giving up on Europe and orienting itself towards the East. Not sure if you've caught their newest defense/foreign policy white paper, where they are putting their relationships with China, India and SEA as priorities while the West is at the very bottom. Seems like they are just trying to get as much as they can from the Ukraine war, before completely giving up on Europe.

In 3-5 years if Russia takes over Ukraine, the Russian army + Ukraine army could be 2.2 million standing army and battle hardened. At that point I don't expect Russia to attack a NATO country right away, for one thing it will take some time to integrate the Ukraine army.

Also the situation is evolving in the EU with Hungary, Poland and Slovakia. Its hard to say where things will be with those countries say 5 years from now. The Russian will adapt their strategy based on what is going on. Also Russia can put pressure in places and see what the West does. Like how the West kept letting Hitler take over places until they drew a final line at Poland. Yet another factor is who is in power in the West and what the West wants to do. Russia can test them to see how far they are willing to go.

And if Russia gets stronger it will gain more allies/support. And countries going neutral. Like it wouldn't surprise me if Finland decides to go back to being neutral. For Finland why risk getting ran over by Russia, if the Russians will accept Finish neutrality.


You mentioned Asia focus. Thats another option for Russia, I know many in Russia want Kazakhstan back. China would rather Russia control those countries than having Muslims on China's border. My view on why China supports Russia so much. Its that if NATO got control of Russia then China would most likely eventually be surrounded and go down to the West too. China can also pressure the West through Russia for negotiating purposes.
 
In 3-5 years if Russia takes over Ukraine, the Russian army + Ukraine army could be 2.2 million standing army and battle hardened. At that point I don't expect Russia to attack a NATO country right away, for one thing it will take some time to integrate the Ukraine army.
Sorry, but I still don't get why Russia would be able or even decide to integrate the Ukrainian army into its own? Seems much more logical to me that, were large amounts, or even the entirety of Ukraine conquered by Russia, the Ukrainian army would simply move into guerilla warfare, very likely utilizing bases in NATO countries to have a safe "homeground" to launch attacks in their occupied homeland as well.

Also the situation is evolving in the EU with Hungary, Poland and Slovakia. Its hard to say where things will be with those countries say 5 years from now. The Russian will adapt their strategy based on what is going on.
Not much more is happening than the politicians here being a bit more vocal about wanting to roll back the sanctions on Russia and restarting doing business with them. That's not something unique to those countries, I've never seen anyone deny that a lot of politicians and businessmen in Europe think that the sanctions are doing more harm than good, or that a lot of countries in Europe will be happy to restart relations with Russia once the war is over. Our countries will be the first and most enthusiastic ones, but I highly doubt they'll be the only ones.

Also Russia can put pressure in places and see what the West does. Like how the West kept letting Hitler take over places until they drew a final line at Poland. Yet another factor is who is in power in the West and what the West wants to do. Russia can test them to see how far they are willing to go.
I mean, they already did that and now we are in the situation that we are in:feelshaha:.

And if Russia gets stronger it will gain more allies/support.
Winning a war doesn't necessarily mean getting stronger. If they do indeed overrun the entirety of Ukraine and manage to deal with guerillas and so on, as you expect, that might apply, but even then, if they lose too many soldiers, or tanks, vehicles and so on, and Ukraine's infrastructure, modern factories and so on get damaged too much, they could very well be objectively weaker than before the war.

And countries going neutral. Like it wouldn't surprise me if Finland decides to go back to being neutral. For Finland why risk getting ran over by Russia, if the Russians will accept Finish neutrality.
Why would they flip-flop like that:feelshaha:? They were doing their best to be neutral for decades, only for the war to convince them that a NATO membership is the only way unlessyou want to risk being attacked. Russia's belligerence is the reason why they aren't neutral, why would it somehow lead to their neutrality?

Thats another option for Russia, I know many in Russia want Kazakhstan back.
Why would they invade it though? They already intervened there once and then just left. As of now, it's one of their closest allies, why would they turn an allied country into a conflict hotspot?

China would rather Russia control those countries than having Muslims on China's border.
None of their actions even indicate that they have a problem with those governments though? They've clamped down on separatists in Xinjiang, as just about any country would do against violent separatists, but they've never so much as indicated that they have a problem with the governments of those countries just because they are Muslims just like the Uyghurs? They've been expanding trade with those countries year-by-year and have worked hard to integrate those countries as a key BRI regional node. Similarly, one of the reasons why they clamped down so hard on separatism in Xinjiang was to make sure that no important BRI node would be politically unstable and to make sure that trade could flow easily from China to Central Asia, I can't imagine them having no problem with Russians invading the region and destroying it as an economic zone.
 
Just Warsawpactmaxx bro
 
Sorry, but I still don't get why Russia would be able or even decide to integrate the Ukrainian army into its own? Seems much more logical to me that, were large amounts, or even the entirety of Ukraine conquered by Russia, the Ukrainian army would simply move into guerilla warfare, very likely utilizing bases in NATO countries to have a safe "homeground" to launch attacks in their occupied homeland as well.

Guerilla war you really need something like Kosovo where its a different religion/ethnic group. The Ukrainians are basically the same as Russians ethnically, culturally, religion, even language. My view is if the government of Ukraine surrenders, then the Ukrainians will fall in line. To give an analogy after the Chechen war, the Chechen army was integrated into the Russian army.
 
Why would they flip-flop like that:feelshaha:? They were doing their best to be neutral for decades, only for the war to convince them that a NATO membership is the only way unlessyou want to risk being attacked. Russia's belligerence is the reason why they aren't neutral, why would it somehow lead to their neutrality?


Remember it was in 2022 when Finland and Sweden decided to break their long neutrality and go with the West. That was after seeing the Russian armies horrible performance during 2022. Now that the Russian army is much stronger and it looks like Russia will take all of Ukraine in time, you can see the Finns and Swedes are not so eager about joining NATO now. I read yesterday Finland announced it has stopped ammunition production for Ukraine.
 
Russia wouldnt gain anything from those dying nations.

Their issue is much more complex
 

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