Problem with every fiction book I ever read

[WizardofSoda]

The author has the ending already thought out and then starts writing the book. And the author has characters with plot armor, his favorites he wants to keep alive. To make the story go the way he wants once you get a bunch of characters there inevitably is times that he has to make other characters do things out of character to allow it.. or have smart characters miss blatantly obvious things they could have done.

For example in Game of Thrones, Stannis was attacking the capital city. And the author wanted to use fire like napalm hitting the boats and sinking them and the invasion by sea to not be successful. To show the dwarf as a brilliant military general defending the capital city. I was watching the tv show and I thought hmm.. that won't work though because Stannis has the Red Witch who can control fire with her clerical powers by will. Then a few moments later I thought ughh.. they are going to come up with some ridiculous reason she doesn't accompany Stannis.. which she has been accompanying him the whole time and for her not to come for the attack on the capital to seize power is just laughably bad.

Sure enough next time we saw them preparing to leave on their ships for the capital the show came up with some retarded reason she can't go. I was just shaking my head.



Other stories are just horrifically bad once you are smart enough to see these things.

 

[WizardofSoda]

As the show went on it got worse and worse for every character doing things that made no sense from their perspective/their character, and often just downright retarded to make the storyline keep going the way he wanted.

another problem with this is some characters are supposed to be smart in the story. but as they start doing more and more stupid things to make the plot work, you have to be thinking ok everyone in this story is completely stupid. Which then takes away the epicness of victories if everybody is just stupid, and it wouldn't have worked if anyone with just normal human intelligence was there.

 

[JayGoptri]

No - I felt the decision to leave Lady Melasandra behind at the Battle for BlackWater Bay was not just plot armour or lazy story telling. At that point in the Novels and therefore in the TV series, things felt right. Stannis is seduced by the Red women's magic, which is just another way to show "her foidary" (cause magic isn't the problem) and Sir Davos is more aware of her cuntyness and hes reasonable so he advises him that his own troops thinks she is controlling their leader whom they otherwise would follow into the depths of hell! So as a wise administrator and advisor like Sir Davos Seaworth, knowing that something is off about her, advises Stannis correctly. It's believable.
Likewise it was very reasonable and believable that as an up and coming champion of "the right thing" Tyrion would take command and defend Kings Landing properly. Cause Cersai is too busy fucking to plan anything hardcore, and Jamie is a prisoner of the North by then.

No I think that the real problem is MUCH worse than the common technique of plot armour or simply being lazy and not finishing a story...

The real reason why the TV series ended with 3 GOD AWFUL seasons is because George R.R. Martin himself is a bullshiter now days. He doesn't know how to really conclude his own concepts of good and evil, has no idea what he wants to stay about supernatural powers and/or "The Gods", and therefore cannot keep the characters on any sort of believable and consistent path! He started with a good foundation and followed the patterns of good story telling about desire and imitation, cruelty, honor, and tyranny etc etc ....

BUT he really started to masturbate his own dick after he got real famous due to success of the TV show and as a result he started doing the one thing we always talk about NOT doing here, he began worshipping Chad/Stacy. The actors and the cabal that surrounds Hollywood excitement. As a result, he is stuck having self indulgence and success and he wants to just rise that out till he dies.

Of course the showrunners are a bunch of leftist weasels who are about "muh Woh-men" as their Holly Temple. So it was no surprise that after they reached a peak of editing his material successfully for on-screen display, they would then turn to Chad/Stacy masturbation also. They would start to just make scenes about WOHMEN or Scared Child or Chad hero, or just a bunch of similar personalities all thrown in the same room, saying the same things over and over.

I could have written a much better ending even while keeping with the whole Chad/Stacy worshipping theme. Even that Showrunners Dan & Dave fucked up so badly.

 

[JayGoptri]

Luckily though (for now, knock on wood) House of The Dragon is keeping far away from the mistakes of those dumbasses HBO hired. But let's see how it goes. It's far superior in quality and acting to the "Rangz of Power Nigga" show which is so bad on ever possible level.

For example:
Why is Galadriel so unrealistically rude and short with everyone? She xa be fierce and commanding without sounding like an angry teenage girl who got her car taken away from the weekend.

 

[decembrist_kirillov]

stannis is gonna win

 

[WizardofSoda]

No - I felt the decision to not take Lady Melasandra was not just plot armour or lazy story telling. At that point in the Novels and therefore in the TV series, things felt right. Stannis is seduced by the Red women's magic and Sir Davos is more reasonable and advises him that his own troops thinks she is controlling their leader whom they otherwise would follow into the depths of hell. So as a wise administrator and advisor Sir Davos knowing that something is off about her advises Stannis correctly. It's believable. Likewise it was very reasonable and believable that as an up and coming champion of "the right thing" Tyrion would take command and defend the city properly. L

No I think that the real problem is MUCH worse than the common technique of pot armour or simply being lazy and not finishing your story...

The real reason why the TV series ended with 3 GOD AWFUL seasons is because Martin himself is bullshiter. He doesn't know how to really conclude concepts of good and evil, has no idea what he wants to stay, and therefore cannot keep the characters on any sort of believable consistent path. He started with a good foundation and followed the patterns of good story telling about desire and imitation, cruelty, honor, and tyranny etc etc ....

BUT he really started to masturbate his own dick after he got real famous due to success of the TV show and as a result he started doing the one thing we always talk about NOT doing here, he began worshipping Chad/Stacy. The actors and the cabal that surrounds Hollywood excitement. As a result, he is stuck having self indulgence and success and he wants to just rise that out till he dies.

Of course the showrunners are a bunch of leftist weasels who are about "muh Woh-men" as their Holly Temple. So it was no surprise that after they reached a peak of editing his material successfully for on-screen display, they would then turn to Chad/Stacy masturbation also. They would start to just make scenes about WOHMEN or Scared Child or Chad hero, or just a bunch of similar personalities all thrown in the same room, saying the same things over and over.

I could have written a much better ending even while keeping with the whole Chad/Stacy worshipping theme. Even that Showrunners Dan & Dave fucked up so badly.

One place I knew he would get screwed is you can only have a little bit of magic or Gods in fantasy. We found that out playing dungeons and dragons. If you let it get out of control then magic just dominates everything and everybody's characters don't matter except the wizards. And for the wizards things spiral out of control so fast that the story ends fast one way or another. Same when Gods and superpowers are involved.

So if you look at Star Wars when it is at its best, the Jedi's have some cool extra magical powers. But they aren't overwhelming in the first 3 movies. For example Luke still has to run like hell when a dozen storm troopers are chasing them with guns. and Boba Fett and co. are able to capture Luke and imprison him using no magic.

Yet the mystical powers can come in at key moments like taking the shot without aiming with the computer aiming.

So the key with magic if its in the game/show is to make it like the Ice Lords badass spears or their invulnerability except for the dragon stuff. And not have them in the show all the time, just for epic fights once in awhile.

 

[JayGoptri]

One place I knew he would get screwed is you can only have a little bit of magic or Gods in fantasy. We found that out playing dungeons and dragons. If you let it get out of control then magic just dominates everything and everybody's characters don't matter except the wizards. And for the wizards things spiral out of control so fast that the story ends fast one way or another. Same when Gods and superpowers are involved.

Are you talking about Martin? Dude he doesn't have a lot of senseless magic. But he does pretend to have a "Philosophy" that he is going to reveal in the end. But infact he DOESN'T. He has no clue what role "The Gods" play in his story. Now you need to contrast that with Tolkienian Legend and Lore. J.R.R Tolkien DID have an exact role for "The Gods" in his LOTR main story. He also supports it relatively well with the Silmarillion. The reason Game of Thrones was badass in the beginning was because many people wanted to see a new age retelling of a Fantasy with a similar conclusion. But Martin has none. And the TV show douche bags just edited their own editing and tried to make the series come to a close as fast as possible. I mean they had no choice they were not writers. They were editors.

So if you look at Star Wars when it is at its best, the Jedi's have some cool extra magical powers. But they aren't overwhelming in the first 3 movies. For example Luke still has to run like hell when a dozen storm troopers are chasing them with guns. and Boba Fett and co. are able to capture Luke and imprison him using no magic.

I don't like comparing Sci-Fi and High Fantasy in these ways, but when using "magic" it has to be either fully explained or not explained at all. Martin doesn't do that as the books progress, it's confusing and stupid after a while.

Yet the mystical powers can come in at key moments like taking the shot without aiming with the computer aiming.

Cringe.

So the key with magic if its in the game/show is to make it like the Ice Lords badass spears or their invulnerability except for the dragon stuff. And not have them in the show all the time, just for epic fights once in awhile.

Yeah this was real stupid. The White Walkers were a perfect example of how Martin has nothing to say (no opinion) about "The Problem of Evil" in philosophy.

 

[98GoinOnDead]

Fiction by necessity has to work on contrivances and conveniences. The real world is simply too unpredictable and dangerous a place for such narratives to take place. It would be very hard to write a compelling story without doing this. I suppose it would be possible if someone read lots of non-fiction to train themselves on, but arguably the public just aren't ready to read stories where a main character might die on chapter 5 or where "bad guys" inevitably end up on the winning side.

 

[JayGoptri]

Fiction by necessity has to work on contrivances and conveniences. The real world is simply too unpredictable and dangerous a place for such narratives to take place. It would be very hard to write a compelling story without doing this. I suppose it would be possible if someone read lots of non-fiction to train themselves on, but arguably the public just aren't ready to read stories where a main character might die on chapter 5 or where "bad guys" inevitably end up on the winning side.

Yes but...

Even when you create fiction if you want it to be GOOD fictional, the internal consistency of character's behavior and revealing themes about what the author wants to say must be philosophically COHERENT. It can not simply be characters behaving so far outside the bounds of human psychology that it's just moronic. In faction, one is still making a moral judgement and taking a stance on society, it's just made with characters that don't exist.