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Serious [Not a bait] Why I sincerely think White Nationalism is now a codeword for "I am ugly and miserable"

Fontaine

Fontaine

Overlord
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Several patterns of evidence indicate that nowadays, most WNs are ugly and sexually frustrated. I don't believe this to be a coincidence, or a result of their ideas. I believe the causality goes backwards: they became WNs as a direct result of sexual frustration. Freud, Marcuse, the Frankfurt school: they were prematurely right. Fascism is now entirely caused by sexual frustration.

Just a little thought experiment: imagine you're a good-looking normie with a normal social life, and a lot of friends of all backgrounds. You regularly have sex. The last time it was with an Indian girl who digs you.

Now... It's Saturday afternoon. Are you going to fire up YouTube to watch a one hour video of David Duke (that creepy Tussaud wax doll) expounding on the "long winters theory of racial differences in IQ"? Are you going to spend an hour reading obscure Julius Evola texts on blogs like Counter-Currents?

Can you picture yourself doing this? Obviously not. Most likely, you'd use your Saturday afternoon to chill with friends, have a girl come over, prepare good food, watch a movie, work on your novel... Do cool, funny stuff.

Only ugliness and loneliness can lead to an intellectual interest in racial differences or rightist political theory.
 
Racial nationalism is so fucking stupid, it's a cope for not achieving shit in life. It will not benefit you as an incel, incels should think about their own interests and not in the interests of people who hate you (chads and stacys).
 
I think White Nationalists are bitter, dissatisfied losers... so are the antifa goons. So are the bernie bros. Everyone I see who is passionate about any kind of ideology and doesn't earn $$$ off it are all losers who are using their ideological beliefs as a coping mechanism.

You're right. Chads, really successful people, they don't seem to care about that shit.
 
I'm a white nationalist for this reason!

Because the beauty of the white aryan woman must not 1122426


not a white nationalist
 
You're right. Chads, really successful people, they don't seem to care about that shit.
You don't even have to be "really successful". You just need to have a girl who is really into you, enough to make you feel loved and important. I guarantee that when you have that, you don't care about racism anymore. Obviously, less than 10% of WN /poltards have that.
 
Everyone who benefits from 80/20 rule will want at least to maintain status quo or even expand it.
Everyone who is in 80% and gets scraps or nothing either lives blue pill dream by deluding himself his life is great or takes black pill and looks for reasons of his own misery.
 
True. Same goes for ISIS in the Middle East.
Many of such movements have a cold, genetic, evolutionary purpose.
 
I just can't see how someone can be a white nationalist when whites already have so many benefits in society just for their skin color.
I really can't understand why so many whites are mad at ethnics. Who the fuck cares about ethnics if not for virtue signalling on the internet? White women still dates white men almost exclusively. Ethnics, except black men, worship white people. This is sure the best time for being a white male in the whole history.
 
True. Same goes for ISIS in the Middle East.
Many of such movements have a cold, genetic, evolutionary purpose.

Many ISIS fighters are Incels.
 
True. Same goes for ISIS in the Middle East.
Many of such movements have a cold, genetic, evolutionary purpose.
One of the most interesting points in Nietzsche's philosophy was his characterization of religious and political movements as evolutionary strategies for low-status men.
 
I just can't see how someone can be a white nationalist when whites already have so many benefits in society just for their skin color.
I really can't understand why so many whites are mad at ethnics. Who the fuck cares about ethnics if not for virtue signalling on the internet? White women still dates white men almost exclusively. Ethnics, except black men, worship white people. This is sure the best time for being a white male in the whole history.
lol this is the worst time to be a white male in history
 
Normies have a vail over there eyes, Fontaine. They are stuck in the matrix and are only capable of working 9-5, paying their taxes, partying, enjoying parties, paying off debt, etc.

There are a select few people who do not get to join in on that fun. They suffer, however these people usually amount to some huge shift in our reality. Think about how so many rulers and revolutionaries have been manlets and/or sexless problematic men. They see the evil unfairness of society and act against it. They leave a big footprint behind.

Hitler was rejected by a jewish girl of his dreams (essentially his oneitis), and was also rejected from his school. Not only that but he had a terrible relationship with his father growing up. His 'soul' did not align with the typical normie life, therefore he was predestined to live a life going completely against the grain of society's vail (you can argue jewish nepotism, but that's a whole different topic).

Point is, those who aren't blinded by the pleasures of society and who live in suffering and solitude, will see the truth clearly because pleasure isn't there to take their hearts away from it. Scientifically, it's why fasting and intentional suffering like that brings so much enlightenment when done for spiritual reasons.
 
Point is, those who aren't blinded by the pleasures of society and who live in suffering and solitude, will see the truth because more clearly because pleasure isn't there to capture their hearts.
What is the truth of WNism, though? There is none... It's a subjective viewpoint that people are happier in homogeneous societies. There's no evidence it's true. I'd rather have cool immigrants as classmates or colleagues than asshole whites.
 
you're spot-on and I used to be heavy in the politics and all that philosophy when I was younger but then I came to that same conclusion. Nobody gives a fuck about this shit and the only ones who do have nothing going on with their lives.

Stephen Hawking just damn died and nobody gave a fuck but that old windbag traitor McCain just died and we have this shit all over the fucking news and internet to the point where you can't ignore it.

White nationalist who are in sale are even funnier because no one in the group respect you and you won't be getting sex anyway for protecting a race that don't give a damn about you.

You don't see me going around preaching black Supremacy or bringing up the Black Panthers because they don't give a fuck about me and I guarantee you Jesse Jackson don't neither.
 
I'm a white nationalist for this reason!

View attachment 40122

not a white nationalist
kek
I think White Nationalists are bitter, dissatisfied losers... so are the antifa goons. So are the bernie bros. Everyone I see who is passionate about any kind of ideology and doesn't earn $$$ off it are all losers who are using their ideological beliefs as a coping mechanism.

You're right. Chads, really successful people, they don't seem to care about that shit.
^
 
One of the most interesting points in Nietzsche's philosophy was his characterization of religious and political movements as evolutionary strategies for low-status men.
Exactly this!
 
What is the truth of WNism, though? There is none... It's a subjective viewpoint that people are happier in homogeneous societies. There's no evidence it's true. I'd rather have cool immigrants as classmates or colleagues than asshole whites.
Higher IQ, stronger genetics, kindness, and Luciferian reasons (bear with me), are why whites are superior.

Humans will never be able to accept more than one race. If you're a minority, the majority will see it. It's human nature to persecute the different people. We need freedom from this separation. One race solves it all because it takes away the false hope of having a society where everybody is equal.

Whites have been the most productive race on the face of this planet, while blacks have built shit huts and still use clubs to this day. Who has the higher IQ? It's been proven that whites have a much higher IQ on average. Blacks tend to be more aggressive and hostile because their blood pressure is naturally high. It's just fact. Blacks have a lower IQ that makes them become degenerates. Whites are even kinder in that way. The only way whites would be "assholes" is if they're exposed to secular degenerate trash (cough cough hiphop), while also being pressured by a million other things in this jewish-ruled society that has forsaken organized religion (control, the cornerstone of the future of human evolution).

When you study the Bible you will realize this: Lucifer is god of this world and we must accept it. Blacks are God's original plan for skin color and that whites are a product of a phenotype mutation (Lucifer's doing). This is scientifically truthful.

The word Aryan = Luciferian. Look it up, the Aryan race is what Lucifer (The light bearer) has in mind for society. (And no, that is not the same thing as Satan) I believe the Bible is very important when it comes to distinguishing between black and white, light and darkness.
 
@StormlitAqua
Also Davis duke looks like a giga Chas tbh I'm sure he slayed back in the 70's
 
It's a subjective viewpoint that people are happier in homogeneous societies. There's no evidence it's true.
I agree with you that White Nationalism is largely in the purview of disaffected ugly men, but let's be fair: there is solid evidence that homogenous communities are more cohesive and that immigration is socially disintegrative.

Not that this matters anyway, because disaffected ugly men cannot hope to affect change on the world where inexorable trends like globalization are concerned.
 
You make essentially this same thread all the time, no matter what replies you get you trot out the same shit 2 weeks later. Your agenda is transparent. You claim only ugly people are racist and therefore it is bad and uncool. You claim to be an ugly subhuman, therefore everything you espouse is also bad and uncool.
Shit, I've been found out
 
True. Same goes for ISIS in the Middle East.
Many of such movements have a cold, genetic, evolutionary purpose.
THIS^^^ high IQ post.
 
"Quick, name 5 benefits of diversity besides food"

You make essentially this same thread all the time, no matter what replies you get you trot out the same shit 2 weeks later. Your agenda is transparent. You claim only ugly people are racist and therefore it is bad and uncool. You claim to be an ugly subhuman, therefore everything you espouse is also bad and uncool.
H92Y67Q.png


See, you only think the way you do and hold the values you hold because you are ugly and uncool. If you were not ugly you would be out fucking women from tinder, not projecting onto evil racists and haters of your semitic kin. You think 2+2=4 only because you are ugly.
 
Several patterns of evidence indicate that nowadays, most WNs are ugly and sexually frustrated. I don't believe this to be a coincidence, or a result of their ideas. I believe the causality goes backwards: they became WNs as a direct result of sexual frustration. Freud, Marcuse, the Frankfurt school: they were prematurely right. Fascism is now entirely caused by sexual frustration.

Just a little thought experiment: imagine you're a good-looking normie with a normal social life, and a lot of friends of all backgrounds. You regularly have sex. The last time it was with an Indian girl who digs you.

Now... It's Saturday afternoon. Are you going to fire up YouTube to watch a one hour video of David Duke (that creepy Tussaud wax doll) expounding on the "long winters theory of racial differences in IQ"? Are you going to spend an hour reading obscure Julius Evola texts on blogs like Counter-Currents?

Can you picture yourself doing this? Obviously not. Most likely, you'd use your Saturday afternoon to chill with friends, have a girl come over, prepare good food, watch a movie, work on your novel... Do cool, funny stuff.

Only ugliness and loneliness can lead to an intellectual interest in racial differences or rightist political theory.
High iq OP
 


Normies don't publicly make racist, or now "transphobic" statements because they get shamed by leftists and jew media, often resulting in them losing employment or being blacklisted. That doesn't mean they don't hold these views. A famous athlete can make a "brave" statement condemning racists or fag haters and they get celebrated, another one can make an innocuous statement against black lives matter and lose their job and be never get another opportunity in the league. Nothing happens to a leftist for their views.

Fontaine is such an insufferable kyke. I've noticed a pattern with him, he'll make showoff threads quoting and regurgitating intellectuals and build up a cachet of "high IQ!" (aliens at the end of A.I. IQ!) and then make another thread like this one about how there are no valid gripes against cultural marxism the only detractors are ugly, "Chad only worries about poon!" So if you care, it's simply because you are ugly and uncool. Notice he doesn't ever make one talking about ugly commies or ugly jews and their near total lack of sexual dimorphism?



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iZZLYQs.jpg

High IQ
 


Normies don't publicly make racist, or now "transphobic" statements because they get shamed by leftists and jew media, often resulting in them losing employment or being blacklisted. That doesn't mean they don't hold these views. A famous athlete can make a "brave" statement condemning racists or fag haters and they get celebrated, another one can make an innocuous statement against black lives matter and lose their job and be never get another opportunity in the league. Nothing happens to a leftist for their views.

Fontaine is such an insufferable kyke. I've noticed a pattern with him, he'll make showoff threads quoting and regurgitating intellectuals and build up a cachet of "high IQ!" (aliens at the end of A.I. IQ!) and then make another thread like this one about how there are no valid gripes against cultural marxism the only detractors are ugly, "Chad only worries about poon!" So if you care, it's simply because you are ugly and uncool. Notice he doesn't ever make one talking about ugly commies or ugly jews and their near total lack of sexual dimorphism?



4fXnxzl.jpg


ea5D3rb.jpg


kLDv0Uq.jpg


gGy0HnW.jpg


iZZLYQs.jpg


Fontaine's a good poster and can be counted on to at least expend some energy in developing and communicating his ideas. Most of the "high IQ" accolades come because there aren't many people here who do that consistently. We need more effortposters, whether or not they end up being wrong or right.

I do think it's odd the emphasis that White Nationalism receives though. It is an obvious target because it is probably the most willfully contrarian and marginal strain of thought in the Western world right now - a large contingent of its proponents will then inevitably end up being malcontents with nothing to lose, irrespective of content. Pseudo-Left "Communist" rebels are even more laughable, as you note, in that their "radicalism" is socially-sanctioned and without risk. It shouldn't need to be said that you can expect a much worse reaction from wearing a swastika in public compared to a hammer-and-sickle. Why? What kind of neuroses have been erected around the idea of "wayyyyycism" that makes it so incalculably worse than anything else? Generalized misanthropy and disregard for human life is fine, genocidal famines and purges are fine provided that they are not done out of a particular kind of "hate". It is still fundamentally the same impulse that makes most link up with a radical movement - a profound sense of anomie and disaffection (sounds suspiciously like horseshoe theory, but this is not meant to be descriptive of the ideologies themselves - simply how they accrue followers, most of whom do not think independently. See Eric Hoffer's The True Believer for a more thorough treatment of this). The main factor determining partitioning among "Far Right" and "Far Left" is, currently, nothing more than the degree of cowardice evinced by the chooser.

Neither should "ugly men are attracted to Right ideology" be taken as a value judgment, which I didn't glean from the original post anyway. Fontaine doesn't really have a history of chastising the ugly - quite the opposite. Being a socially marginal element, in fact, probably makes you more likely to be an agent of change, an actually necessary individual. There's a good passage in John Ralston Saul's Voltaire's Bastards about this:

Sex is many things - a need, a desire, an emotion, a release - but it has nothing to do with worldly sophistication, character building or even existential action.
Sex, in general, is more of an obstacle than anything else for those who wish to free themselves and act as individuals. It can not be a coincidence that most of the martyred existential heroes, in whom rational society has invested its dream of individualism, appear to have been asexual or to have led disastrous sex lives. At first glances this doesn't seem to fit with our sexual obsession. But then we aren't dealing with a successful affirmation of responsible individualism in the real world. We are creating private dramas which compensate for the fracturing of the individual and the castration of his power in public life.
 
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What about black nationalist? They are also ugly incels that leaves in parents basement?
 
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There's really no use arguing with WN's. Been there, done that. I gave up. Best to just let them rot and die alone - their destiny, and the very "natural selection" that they constantly like to jerk off over at work.

To be fair most communists are ugly losers too. But it's kind of a false equivalence because they at least aren't going around preaching that others are "inferior." Same with DnD nerds and the like. If you're gonna cope with your inceldom, at least cope in a positive way I say.
 
To be fair most communists are ugly losers too. But it's kind of a false equivalence because they at least aren't going around preaching that others are "inferior."
Today they are going and preaching about inferiority of white male, superiority of women, toxic masculinity, patriarchy, gender inequality, rape culture and other bullshit. Feminism and SJW are hate movements under cover of "equality", you have to be very naive to not see it.

It is black pill in itself that even on incel forum when you want discredit some ideology you just say that members are ugly loosers.
 
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It is implied by him even in this thread, he leverages his opening salvo to say there is "no truth in WNism," that there is no proof that homogeneous cultures are happier, and basically makes the "awesome burritos" argument.

This was the closest I saw to what is described:

What is the truth of WNism, though? There is none... It's a subjective viewpoint that people are happier in homogeneous societies. There's no evidence it's true. I'd rather have cool immigrants as classmates or colleagues than asshole whites.

I do agree that "diversity" is a mechanism of social control and degradation, but it's worth noting that he doesn't pose the antithesis, "heterogenous societies are better for their people" - just says that there's no reason to have a preference for your own race when they still treat you poorly. I certainly didn't pick up anything so ridiculous as the "but think of all the food carts!" argument.

Also it's a sad state of affairs that a man's worth is measured by how many notches he has on the bedpost, or how many women he could shag theoretically.

History's intelligentsia were mostly ugly. From Socrates, to Cato the Elder, to Cicero, to Dante, to Shakespeare and so forth. That doesn't invalidate their ideas or their art.

Certainly. I'd hope everyone, here of all places, agrees.

Nor are politics solely the realm of ugly losers, the founding fathers were mostly well off Chads, their views are also repugnant by today's standards and SJWs are agitating to get their statues pulled down and smashed along with those of confederates.

Even if it were true that there were no Chads involved in right wing politics and it's solely the realm of us uglies, which is demonstrably false, or that even blue collar Chads don't care about jobs being sent overseas and them being replaced by hordes of browns, it wouldn't invalidate their politics, ideas, so forth, and suddenly validate the obverse or middle. He targets the right, he could target every idea presented here, too. See, women, sexual promiscuity, are great, the future is female.

I think the "now" in the title is critical and implicitly recognizes the historical contingency of his point. That their views on race would be considered repugnant currently doesn't matter when they were standard in the epoch in which these men lived. I don't think that the qualities inherent to White Nationalism are under the lens in this thread, but rather the position it occupies in the public consciousness and how people arrive at such a position as to embrace it (my own contention is stated above; most people cannot think for themselves and end up determining political alignment without respect to essence). Leaders active in the political sphere are mostly exempt from this as exceptional men. Aging right wing Chads concerned about outsourcing and scab labor also have a material stake in the issue that goes beyond "goddamn fuckin muds."
 
Today they are going and preaching about inferiority of white male, superiority of women, toxic masculinity, patriarchy, gender inequality, rape culture and other bullshit. Feminism and SJW are hate movements under cover of "equality", you have to be very naive to not see it.

It is black pill in itself that even on incel forum when you want discredit some ideology you just say that members are ugly loosers.

I've never seen this. I've seen them blame white males for everything, I've seen them celebrate "victories" of women/minorities over white males. I've never seen them preach "inferiority of white males." Conversely, it isn't even remotely debatable that "inferiority" is pretty much all that WN's preach. And honestly wanting equal rights for all is not at all "hateful." If that's the case, better an SJW than an SQW.

Well, this forum would know ugly losers wouldn't it? Most hardcore gamers are ugly losers too (not normie gamers). Point being? The point in mentioning all this isn't to shame them for being ugly losers per se; it is to point out the sheer irony in the fact that they preach "superiority" while almost all being ugly losers.
 
I've never seen this. I've seen them blame white males for everything, I've seen them celebrate "victories" of women/minorities over white males. I've never seen them preach "inferiority of white males." Conversely, it isn't even remotely debatable that "inferiority" is pretty much all that WN's preach. And honestly wanting equal rights for all is not at all "hateful." If that's the case, better an SJW than an SQW.
If you think SJW and Feminism are about equality you are still balls deep in blue pill.
 
If you think SJW and Feminism are about equality you are still balls deep in blue pill.

So you seemingly admit that equality is not a bad thing then.

I am not defending SJW's or feminists. I have been critical of both on numerous occasions. That being said your more casual progressive or feminist (keep in mind this is about 99% of women, and the 1% who claim to be against it are just bullshitting to try and get ugly male orbiters and/or attention -- ALL women are feminists deep down) probably does just want equality.

Dude, I'm an oldcel. I've read Marx and ive read Noam Chomsky. I've read Madison Grant and I've read Lothrop Stoddard. I am neither left-wing or right-wing; a well informed person can't just choose either side imo. Having a nuanced opinion doesn't make you "blue-pilled" but believing "if only we had a white ethnostate I wouldn't be incel!" certainly does.
 
Meh, it depends where you live. I get that it's from westerner point of view, but living in central Europe I, and majority of people in my country look on that differently. We want to stay homogenous because it beneficial at least for safety. There are no enclaves with people with different cultural background, and streets are much safer. Are you safe walking in the streets of your cities in the night? I did that frequently where I live and never was in any danger. I just don't want central european countries to become shitholes like western countries
Is that really so bad to preserve?:
http://telewizjarepublika.pl/imgcache/750x400/c/uploads/news/obraz_4.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DALoVWnUwAAHwIv.jpg:large

Living in country with 99% of people with same nationality and culture is a big benefit I would say.
 
So you seemingly admit that equality is not a bad thing then.

I am not defending SJW's or feminists. I have been critical of both on numerous occasions. That being said your more casual progressive or feminist (keep in mind this is about 99% of women, and the 1% who claim to be against it are just bullshitting to try and get ugly male orbiters and/or attention -- ALL women are feminists deep down) probably does just want equality.

Dude, I'm an oldcel. I've read Marx and ive read Noam Chomsky. I've read Madison Grant and I've read Lothrop Stoddard. I am neither left-wing or right-wing; a well informed person can't just choose either side imo. Having a nuanced opinion doesn't make you "blue-pilled" but believing "if only we had a white ethnostate I wouldn't be incel!" certainly does.
Feminist and SJW are for equality of outcome at best and about women supremacy at worst. I am for equality of opportunity.
Also I am not white supremacists, I don't believe whites are inherently better than e.g. Asians or Indians. What I know for fact that multiculturalism generates more problems than it solves and it does not work. I was living in Western European country for 2 years, visited many other countries like Australia and USA where multiculturalism are at much higher level than in my country of origin and I can tell for sure it does not work.
 
White Nationalism™ is a meme invented by SJW cucks
 
What is the truth of WNism, though? There is none... It's a subjective viewpoint that people are happier in homogeneous societies. There's no evidence it's true. I'd rather have cool immigrants as classmates or colleagues than asshole whites.
Nazi Germany was objectively a better place to live than modern day America.
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It's hard for me to imagine how stupid someone has to be to be happy with modern society as a white male. Even white Chads would be better off in homogenous societies, they'd still get the best women. It's true that successful people don't think about these things, but that doesn't make these things any less true. If you're a white man who's in favor of multiculturalism, you're a masochist, there's no other explanation.
You claim only ugly people are racist and therefore it is bad and uncool. You claim to be an ugly subhuman, therefore everything you espouse is also bad and uncool.
I don't believe he's white.
Higher IQ, stronger genetics, kindness, and Luciferian reasons (bear with me), are why whites are superior.

Humans will never be able to accept more than one race. If you're a minority, the majority will see it. It's human nature to persecute the different people. We need freedom from this separation. One race solves it all because it takes away the false hope of having a society where everybody is equal.

Whites have been the most productive race on the face of this planet, while blacks have built shit huts and still use clubs to this day. Who has the higher IQ? It's been proven that whites have a much higher IQ on average. Blacks tend to be more aggressive and hostile because their blood pressure is naturally high. It's just fact. Blacks have a lower IQ that makes them become degenerates. Whites are even kinder in that way. The only way whites would be "assholes" is if they're exposed to secular degenerate trash (cough cough hiphop), while also being pressured by a million other things in this jewish-ruled society that has forsaken organized religion (control, the cornerstone of the future of human evolution).

When you study the Bible you will realize this: Lucifer is god of this world and we must accept it. Blacks are God's original plan for skin color and that whites are a product of a phenotype mutation (Lucifer's doing). This is scientifically truthful.

The word Aryan = Luciferian. Look it up, the Aryan race is what Lucifer (The light bearer) has in mind for society. (And no, that is not the same thing as Satan) I believe the Bible is very important when it comes to distinguishing between black and white, light and darkness.
Can you elaborate on the Lucifer stuff and where you get it from?
 
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The problem isn't about race, it's about class and gynocentrism.
 
One of the most interesting points in Nietzsche's philosophy was his characterization of religious and political movements as evolutionary strategies for low-status men.
Liberalism is an evolutionary strategy for women to find chad.
 
Liberalism is an evolutionary strategy for women to find chad.
I agree that every political opinion hides self-interest and an evolutionary strategy behind a veneer of altruism as plausible deniability. However, I think the flaw of WNism is that it's too transparent. People can easily see through your game. They can see you think you deserve more status solely on account of being white, and they naturally don't want to give it to you, because they have understood that a white phenotype is a lot less important than personal achievements, physical beauty and other actual qualitative traits. Feminism is a lot less transparent. You need a good degree of thinking and knowledge of evolutionary biology / internet dating experiments to realize that "equality for women" actually translates to "superiority of women".
 
That
You don't even have to be "really successful". You just need to have a girl who is really into you, enough to make you feel loved and important. I guarantee that when you have that, you don't care about racism anymore. Obviously, less than 10% of WN /poltards have that.

That's what i'd consider really successful. A lot of normies have sex/relationships, but it's often fragile ones where they are at the whim of the girl, only chads and rare normies have a girl really love them and care about them.
 
White Nationalism™ is a meme invented by SJW cucks
How? Many people self-identify as White Nationalists? Anyone who champions Richard Spencer’s dream of a ‘white ethno-state’ is by definition a white nationalist. What you just said makes absolutely no sense.
 
How? Many people self-identify as White Nationalists? Anyone who champions Richard Spencer’s dream of a ‘white ethno-state’ is by definition a white nationalist. What you just said makes absolutely no sense.

What I said makes perfect sense. It’s just alt-left propaganda, like all the SJW bullshit. There is virtually nobody who is actually a “white nationalist”, and the term has lost all meaning because it has been thrown around so much.
 

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