Why are the Jews hated (and are therefore not as powerful as many think)

[K9Otaku]

Medieval Judaism

The Jewish religion is the basis of both Christianity and Islam. As a result, for over a thousand years, Jews were tolerated within Muslim and Christian societies.

However, they were often persecuted, although not systematically. How did that happen? Generally, an overzealous King or Khalif would start a forced conversion campaign (either to Islam or Christianity) and kill a number of Jews. Then a Bishop or Mullah would intervene and say to the King or Khalif: "O, King, conversion can only be spontaneous. Faith cannot be forced" (Christianity) or "O Khalif, you have a duty to protect the Ahl-al-Kitab (people of the book), provided they pay the Jizya" (Islam)

The bottom line is that Jews were mostly tolerated but their life was always perilous. As a result, the Jews became opportunistic feeders. They became experts at identifying trends, in order to make as much money as possible, in the shortest possible time. This behavior was the most sensible given their situation. Being able to quickly move to another city, by having reserves of moveable wealth, was the key to survival. However, being an opportunistic feeder is not going to endear you to your neighbors, especially if you are from a visible minority. For example, in 17th century Poland (which was far bigger than it is now because it included Lithuania, Belarus and Western Ukraine), Jews became estate managers in large numbers on behalf of absentee Polish landlords. This did not make them popular with the peasants, of course, as it put them in the position of extracting as much revenue as possible from the said peasants on behalf of their masters. Were they cruel and greedy? Yes, but no more than estate mangers usually were. People just noticed it more because they were of a specific ethnicity, which was already carrying quite a lot of baggage.

Religious hypocrisy

Another aspect of the reputational problem Jews have is that their religion is indeed hypocritical to its core.

Properly speaking, Jews today are not "Jews". The word "Jew" is a contraction of "Judean", i.e. "someone who lives in, or comes from, Judea". As a result, "Judaism" means "the religion practiced in Judea". This religion existed for a number of centuries and it was very different from what we call "Judaism" today. In it, everything revolved around the Jerusalem Temple and its priests (the Levites). All the purity rules were to be observed ONLY BY the latter, not the general Judean population. For the ordinary Judean, there was just the Sabbath, the sacrificial Lamb at Passover and a few other festivals to observe. When the Temple was destroyed by the Romans in 70AD, Judaism proper ceased to exist. Judaism was tied to a single temple. Without it, the was NO WAY to practice it.

What happened afterwards is that a number of heterodox post-Jewish religious currents spread through the formerly Jewish population that had survived the war. The best known of these is Christianity. The other is Rabbinic Talmudic Pharisaism (RTP). This religious current is no more "Jewish" (i.e. Judean) than Christianity, although it pretends to be. In the absence of the Temple, the Rabbis had to invent a substitute and this is why they extended the priestly purity rules to the rank and file. Eventually, the world ended up with 3 post-Judean religious currents:

• Christianity (Scriptures: Old Testament + New Testament)
• RTP (Scriptures: Old Testament + Talmud)
• Islam (Scriptures: Old Testament + Quran/Hadith)

The reason I mention the OT as a Muslim scripture above is because the Quran cannot be understood without the OT as background. Muslim clerics (although not ordinary Muslims) know the OT quite well. Jewish influence is also arguably even stronger in Islam than in Christianity.

So, the RTP religion (what is called "Judaism" today) is no more "Jewish" than Islam or Christianity. It CANNOT be because it does not have the Jerusalem Temple anymore and that is what DEFINES Judaism.

Therefore, RTP, by claiming "Judaism" as its label, is fundamentally deceitful (while Islam and Christianity are honest). Finally, there are reasons why, in the Gospels, Jesus is made to say "Woe to you Pharisee hypocrites ..." in a number of verses (in RTP, P stands for "Pharisee"). I will not go into details but it is widely acknowledged that a formalistic, legalistic religion like RTP, leaves ample room for hypocrisy on a number of levels.

Messiah = Führer

Finally, it must be stressed that RTP (although not original Judaism) is the ancestor of Nazism, which it preceded by over 2000 years. In RTP, a central figure is the Messiah, which has become far more important than the original Jerusalem Temple in that religion. Properly, modern "Jews" are not supposed to return to Jerusalem and resume praying at the Temple before the Messiah comes. This is how important the messianic figure is in RTP and it is the reason why the most orthodox RTPers are anti-Zionists.

Without going into unnecessary details, here are the fundamental similarities between Nazism and RTP:

• Messiah = Fuhrer (= world conqueror who will turn Untermenschen/Goyim into slaves)
• Chosen People = Master Race
• Goyim = Untermenschen
• Messianic Age = 1000 year Reich

Just in passing, we may note that Christianity is the first anti-Nazi movement. The Christian Messiah is the Jewish one turned on its head. It is an anti-Messiah because it is a deliberately loser-Messiah (while the original Jewish Messiah becomes the Antichrist).

TL;DR

The Jews have inherited a bad reputation from the Middle Ages. Their religion (properly RTP - Rabbinic Talmudic Pharisaism) is fundamentally hypocritical and is the direct ideological ancestor to Nazism. They were persecuted by Christians and Muslims but not systematically so and this is why they survived.

As a result they are weak. You can base oportunism on hypocrisy, but not strength.

Jews are generally harmless. They can be annoying but they do not commit crimes more often than anybody else. However, they can sometimes behave as maggots on a corpse, like they are doing right now with the decaying carcass of Western Civilization.

 

[K9Otaku]

@Copexodius Maximus

 

[TheGrayWolf]

What do you mean? The Jews are literally everywhere in high power (newspaper, politics, large companies)...
And look at the questionable support Israel is getting from Western countries and people.

Btw. I'm 100% a Westerner and white.

 

[AsiaCel]

Jews are generally harmless. They can be annoying but they do not commit crimes more often than anybody else. However, they can sometimes behave as maggots on a corpse, like they are doing right now with the decaying carcass of Western Civilization.

Sounds like what a Jew would say lol.

Joking aside, jews remind me of rices, but with global power and ambitions.

 

[K9Otaku]

prajeet88 just to clarify my position on Judaism

 

[K9Otaku]

Sounds like what a Jew would say lol.

Did you read the rest? Is that what a Jew would say? "maggots on a corpse", "hypocrite to the core", etc ?

 

[TheGrayWolf]

As a result they are weak. You can base oportunism on hypocrisy, but not strength.

Jews are generally harmless. They can be annoying but they do not commit crimes more often than anybody else. However, they can sometimes behave as maggots on a corpse, like they are doing right now with the decaying carcass of Western Civilization.

They're more powerful than you think. Just see how biased the Western media is reporting on the current conflict.

They're also very unfriendly as people.

 

[AsiaCel]

Did you read the rest? Is that what a Jew would say? "maggots on a corpse", "hypocrite to the core", etc ?

I'm just joking lol

 

[TheGrayWolf]

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying the world is wrong to support Israel like this. Plus it's proven that the owners of some of the largest media outlets are jewish

 

[K9Otaku]

What do you mean? The Jews are literally everywhere in high power

That is an illusion of power. That is why I say they are "maggots on a corpse". Western Civilization is already dead (they did NOT kill it). The Jews are just feasting on the corpse

And look at the questionable support Israel is getting from Western countries and people.

Not very clear whether they are actually supported or in fact hampered.

The Israelis (I am not saying all Jews) are going to become our friends

Why? Have you noticed how the US is hampering Israel's response? See how the IDF was ready to attack nearly a week ago but hasn't done anything but airstrikes and small SF raids so far? If you listen to the US official pronouncements towards Israel, what do you hear? Biden: "We support you...

incels.is

 

[K9Otaku]

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying the world is wrong to support Israel like this. Plus it's proven that the owners of some of the largest media outlets are jewish

The world? Really? Seems very ambiguous to me, especially in the US

 

[AsiaCel]

That is an illusion of power. That is why I say they are "maggots on a corpse". Western Civilization is already dead (they did NOT kill it). The Jews are just feasting on the corpse


Not very clear whether they are actually supported or in fact hampered.

The Israelis (I am not saying all Jews) are going to become our friends

Why? Have you noticed how the US is hampering Israel's response? See how the IDF was ready to attack nearly a week ago but hasn't done anything but airstrikes and small SF raids so far? If you listen to the US official pronouncements towards Israel, what do you hear? Biden: "We support you...

incels.is

Not just western, but also the eastern. The Jews, cooperating with Chinkikes, have infiltrated the kpop scene and began importing mutt stars.

 

[K9Otaku]

They're more powerful than you think.

You are an idiot for thinking that. Sorry but it is true

Just see how biased the Western media is reporting on the current conflict.

Everybody is like that today, not just the Jews

They're also very unfriendly as people.

You are the most misinformed man in the world if you think that. All the Jewish American Press is against Israel and is trying to do everything they can to prevent them from defending themselves

 

[K9Otaku]

Not just western, but also the eastern. The Jews, cooperating with Chinkikes, have infiltrated the kpop scene and began importing mutt stars.

China is supporting Iran and Hamas

 

[AsiaCel]

China is supporting Iran and Hamas

I'm talking mostly shout south Korea/Japan, these puppet US states. However, the lack of recognition of Jewish subversive actions on China, makes it vulnerable to Jewish cultural attacks, such as the acceptance of interracial relationships and LGBT.

 

[SlayerSlayer]

Medieval Judaism

The Jewish religion is the basis of both Christianity and Islam. As a result, for over a thousand years, Jews were tolerated within Muslim and Christian societies.

However, they were often persecuted, although not systematically. How did that happen? Generally, an overzealous King or Khalif would start a forced conversion campaign (either to Islam or Christianity) and kill a number of Jews. Then a Bishop or Mullah would intervene and say to the King or Khalif: "O, King, conversion can only be spontaneous. Faith cannot be forced" (Christianity) or "O Khalif, you have a duty to protect the Ahl-al-Kitab (people of the book), provided they pay the Jizya" (Islam)

The bottom line is that Jews were mostly tolerated but their life was always perilous. As a result, the Jews became opportunistic feeders. They became experts at identifying trends, in order to make as much money as possible, in the shortest possible time. This behavior was the most sensible given their situation. Being able to quickly move to another city, by having reserves of moveable wealth, was the key to survival. However, being an opportunistic feeder is not going to endear you to your neighbors, especially if you are from a visible minority. For example, in 17th century Poland (which was far bigger than it is now because it included Lithuania, Belarus and Western Ukraine), Jews became estate managers in large numbers on behalf of absentee Polish landlords. This did not make them popular with the peasants, of course, as it put them in the position of extracting as much revenue as possible from the said peasants on behalf of their masters. Were they cruel and greedy? Yes, but no more than estate mangers usually were. People just noticed it more because they were of a specific ethnicity, which was already carrying quite a lot of baggage.

Religious hypocrisy

Another aspect of the reputational problem Jews have is that their religion is indeed hypocritical to its core.

Properly speaking, Jews today are not "Jews". The word "Jew" is a contraction of "Judean", i.e. "someone who lives in, or comes from, Judea". As a result, "Judaism" means "the religion practiced in Judea". This religion existed for a number of centuries and it was very different from what we call "Judaism" today. In it, everything revolved around the Jerusalem Temple and its priests (the Levites). All the purity rules were to be observed ONLY BY the latter, not the general Judean population. For the ordinary Judean, there was just the Sabbath, the sacrificial Lamb at Passover and a few other festivals to observe. When the Temple was destroyed by the Romans in 70AD, Judaism proper ceased to exist. Judaism was tied to a single temple. Without it, the was NO WAY to practice it.

What happened afterwards is that a number of heterodox post-Jewish religious currents spread through the formerly Jewish population that had survived the war. The best known of these is Christianity. The other is Rabbinic Talmudic Pharisaism (RTP). This religious current is no more "Jewish" (i.e. Judean) than Christianity, although it pretends to be. In the absence of the Temple, the Rabbis had to invent a substitute and this is why they extended the priestly purity rules to the rank and file. Eventually, the world ended up with 3 post-Judean religious currents:

• Christianity (Scriptures: Old Testament + New Testament)
• RTP (Scriptures: Old Testament + Talmud)
• Islam (Scriptures: Old Testament + Quran/Hadith)

The reason I mention the OT as a Muslim scripture above is because the Quran cannot be understood without the OT as background. Muslim clerics (although not ordinary Muslims) know the OT quite well. Jewish influence is also arguably even stronger in Islam than in Christianity.

So, the RTP religion (what is called "Judaism" today) is no more "Jewish" than Islam or Christianity. It CANNOT be because it does not have the Jerusalem Temple anymore and that is what DEFINES Judaism.

Therefore, RTP, by claiming "Judaism" as its label, is fundamentally deceitful (while Islam and Christianity are honest). Finally, there are reasons why, in the Gospels, Jesus is made to say "Woe to you Pharisee hypocrites ..." in a number of verses (in RTP, P stands for "Pharisee"). I will not go into details but it is widely acknowledged that a formalistic, legalistic religion like RTP, leaves ample room for hypocrisy on a number of levels.

Messiah = Führer

Finally, it must be stressed that RTP (although not original Judaism) is the ancestor of Nazism, which it preceded by over 2000 years. In RTP, a central figure is the Messiah, which has become far more important than the original Jerusalem Temple in that religion. Properly, modern "Jews" are not supposed to return to Jerusalem and resume praying at the Temple before the Messiah comes. This is how important the messianic figure is in RTP and it is the reason why the most orthodox RTPers are anti-Zionists.

Without going into unnecessary details, here are the fundamental similarities between Nazism and RTP:

• Messiah = Fuhrer (= world conqueror who will turn Untermenschen/Goyim into slaves)
• Chosen People = Master Race
• Goyim = Untermenschen
• Messianic Age = 1000 year Reich

Just in passing, we may note that Christianity is the first anti-Nazi movement. The Christian Messiah is the Jewish one turned on its head. It is an anti-Messiah because it is a deliberately loser-Messiah (while the original Jewish Messiah becomes the Antichrist).

TL;DR

The Jews have inherited a bad reputation from the Middle Ages. Their religion (properly RTP - Rabbinic Talmudic Pharisaism) is fundamentally hypocritical and is the direct ideological ancestor to Nazism. They were persecuted by Christians and Muslims but not systematically so and this is why they survived.

As a result they are weak. You can base oportunism on hypocrisy, but not strength.

Jews are generally harmless. They can be annoying but they do not commit crimes more often than anybody else. However, they can sometimes behave as maggots on a corpse, like they are doing right now with the decaying carcass of Western Civilization.

im not even gonna read this because the title is stupid. Nigger, they straight up ROBBED every american taxpayer just now. Not powerful?? They arent even 1% of the population and YES they can do whatever the fuck they want. WE OWE THESE KYKES 100 BILLION DOLLARS FOR BULLSHIT THAT IS COMPLETELY THEIR FAULT. THEY DONT EVEN FUCKING NEED 100 BILLION, THEY JUST WANT EXTRA MONEY FOR GETTING THEIR HANDS DIRTY

 

[K9Otaku]

im not even gonna read this because the title is stupid. Nigger, they straight up ROBBED every american taxpayer just now. Not powerful?? They arent even 1% of the population and YES they can do whatever the fuck they want. WE OWE THESE KYKES 100 BILLION DOLLARS FOR BULLSHIT THAT IS COMPLETELY THEIR FAULT. THEY DONT EVEN FUCKING NEED 100 BILLION, THEY JUST WANT EXTRA MONEY FOR GETTING THEIR HANDS DIRTY

You are an idiot.

The US govt is wasting its money on a ton of other stuff including all manner of NEETS and foreign "friends". Israel is not special.

Anti-Jew paranoia is just a sign of mid-tier IQ who needs simple stuff to be angry at. It was so in the 1930s and still is.

 

[K9Otaku]

I'm talking mostly shout south Korea/Japan, these puppet US states. However, the lack of recognition of Jewish subversive actions on China, makes it vulnerable to Jewish cultural attacks, such as the acceptance of interracial relationships and LGBT.

No more no less than the West

 

[SlayerSlayer]

You are an idiot.

The US govt is wasting its money on a ton of other stuff including all manner of NEETS and foreign "friends". Israel is not special.

Anti-Jew paranoia is just a sign of mid-tier IQ who needs simple stuff to be angry at. It was so in the 1930s and still is.

im not an idiot, you are just coping with contrarianism on a contrarian forum. Its crystal clear that jews have a level of clout and privilege no other body can get away with. The US would help Israel before an island full of beautiful white women

 

[K9Otaku]

im not an idiot, you are just coping with contrarianism on a contrarian forum.

You are an idiot who is just following fashion where he happens to be.

Its crystal clear that jews have a level of clout and privilege no other body can get away with.

The Chinese have more power
The Russians have more power.
The Ukrainian Mafia and their American bosses have more power.
The Tata group in India (and the Mafias it controls) have more power.
Etc.

All of these have more power projection capabilities than Israel and a bigger nuclear dick too.

The US would help Israel before an island full of beautiful white women

The US is not really helping Israel now. And it has not been helping them really since the 80s. If the US had been REALLY helping Israel, do you think Gaza and HAMAS would still exist?

 

[SlayerSlayer]

You are an idiot who is just following fashion where he happens to be.


The Chinese have more power
The Russians have more power.
The Ukrainian Mafia and their American bosses have more power.
The Tata group in India (and the Mafias it controls) have more power.
Etc.

All of these have more power projection capabilities than Israel and a bigger nuclear dick too.


The US is not really helping Israel now. And it has not been helping them really since the 80s. If the US had been REALLY helping Israel, do you think Gaza and HAMAS would still exist?

power isn't having a nuke, Power is about being able to act like a piece of shit and get away with it. And the Jews are masters at this.

Gaza and Hamas exist, because the Jews ALLOWED them to exist. They beat their ass in a war, at let them live so they can suffer. Netanyahu is an accelerationist that propped Hamas up as a 4d chess move, to keep Palestine in a spiteful state

 

[just lonely]

because they are no good.

 

[K9Otaku]

power isn't having a nuke, Power is about being able to act like a piece of shit and get away with it. And the Jews are masters at this.

Having a Nuke is a major status symbol. Also it does make you able to get away with a lot bc nobody can attack you.

Gaza and Hamas exist, because the Jews ALLOWED them to exist. They beat their ass in a war, at let them live so they can suffer.

Delirium

Weren't the Jews also secretly Nazi and they put themselves in ovens by the millions in order to dominate the world after WWII?

 

[K9Otaku]

because they are no good.

Low effort alert

 

[Copexodius Maximus]

Medieval Judaism

The Jewish religion is the basis of both Christianity and Islam. As a result, for over a thousand years, Jews were tolerated within Muslim and Christian societies.

However, they were often persecuted, although not systematically. How did that happen? Generally, an overzealous King or Khalif would start a forced conversion campaign (either to Islam or Christianity) and kill a number of Jews. Then a Bishop or Mullah would intervene and say to the King or Khalif: "O, King, conversion can only be spontaneous. Faith cannot be forced" (Christianity) or "O Khalif, you have a duty to protect the Ahl-al-Kitab (people of the book), provided they pay the Jizya" (Islam)

The bottom line is that Jews were mostly tolerated but their life was always perilous. As a result, the Jews became opportunistic feeders. They became experts at identifying trends, in order to make as much money as possible, in the shortest possible time. This behavior was the most sensible given their situation. Being able to quickly move to another city, by having reserves of moveable wealth, was the key to survival. However, being an opportunistic feeder is not going to endear you to your neighbors, especially if you are from a visible minority. For example, in 17th century Poland (which was far bigger than it is now because it included Lithuania, Belarus and Western Ukraine), Jews became estate managers in large numbers on behalf of absentee Polish landlords. This did not make them popular with the peasants, of course, as it put them in the position of extracting as much revenue as possible from the said peasants on behalf of their masters. Were they cruel and greedy? Yes, but no more than estate mangers usually were. People just noticed it more because they were of a specific ethnicity, which was already carrying quite a lot of baggage.

Religious hypocrisy

Another aspect of the reputational problem Jews have is that their religion is indeed hypocritical to its core.

Properly speaking, Jews today are not "Jews". The word "Jew" is a contraction of "Judean", i.e. "someone who lives in, or comes from, Judea". As a result, "Judaism" means "the religion practiced in Judea". This religion existed for a number of centuries and it was very different from what we call "Judaism" today. In it, everything revolved around the Jerusalem Temple and its priests (the Levites). All the purity rules were to be observed ONLY BY the latter, not the general Judean population. For the ordinary Judean, there was just the Sabbath, the sacrificial Lamb at Passover and a few other festivals to observe. When the Temple was destroyed by the Romans in 70AD, Judaism proper ceased to exist. Judaism was tied to a single temple. Without it, the was NO WAY to practice it.

What happened afterwards is that a number of heterodox post-Jewish religious currents spread through the formerly Jewish population that had survived the war. The best known of these is Christianity. The other is Rabbinic Talmudic Pharisaism (RTP). This religious current is no more "Jewish" (i.e. Judean) than Christianity, although it pretends to be. In the absence of the Temple, the Rabbis had to invent a substitute and this is why they extended the priestly purity rules to the rank and file. Eventually, the world ended up with 3 post-Judean religious currents:

• Christianity (Scriptures: Old Testament + New Testament)
• RTP (Scriptures: Old Testament + Talmud)
• Islam (Scriptures: Old Testament + Quran/Hadith)

The reason I mention the OT as a Muslim scripture above is because the Quran cannot be understood without the OT as background. Muslim clerics (although not ordinary Muslims) know the OT quite well. Jewish influence is also arguably even stronger in Islam than in Christianity.

So, the RTP religion (what is called "Judaism" today) is no more "Jewish" than Islam or Christianity. It CANNOT be because it does not have the Jerusalem Temple anymore and that is what DEFINES Judaism.

Therefore, RTP, by claiming "Judaism" as its label, is fundamentally deceitful (while Islam and Christianity are honest). Finally, there are reasons why, in the Gospels, Jesus is made to say "Woe to you Pharisee hypocrites ..." in a number of verses (in RTP, P stands for "Pharisee"). I will not go into details but it is widely acknowledged that a formalistic, legalistic religion like RTP, leaves ample room for hypocrisy on a number of levels.

Messiah = Führer

Finally, it must be stressed that RTP (although not original Judaism) is the ancestor of Nazism, which it preceded by over 2000 years. In RTP, a central figure is the Messiah, which has become far more important than the original Jerusalem Temple in that religion. Properly, modern "Jews" are not supposed to return to Jerusalem and resume praying at the Temple before the Messiah comes. This is how important the messianic figure is in RTP and it is the reason why the most orthodox RTPers are anti-Zionists.

Without going into unnecessary details, here are the fundamental similarities between Nazism and RTP:

• Messiah = Fuhrer (= world conqueror who will turn Untermenschen/Goyim into slaves)
• Chosen People = Master Race
• Goyim = Untermenschen
• Messianic Age = 1000 year Reich

Just in passing, we may note that Christianity is the first anti-Nazi movement. The Christian Messiah is the Jewish one turned on its head. It is an anti-Messiah because it is a deliberately loser-Messiah (while the original Jewish Messiah becomes the Antichrist).

TL;DR

The Jews have inherited a bad reputation from the Middle Ages. Their religion (properly RTP - Rabbinic Talmudic Pharisaism) is fundamentally hypocritical and is the direct ideological ancestor to Nazism. They were persecuted by Christians and Muslims but not systematically so and this is why they survived.

As a result they are weak. You can base oportunism on hypocrisy, but not strength.

Jews are generally harmless. They can be annoying but they do not commit crimes more often than anybody else. However, they can sometimes behave as maggots on a corpse, like they are doing right now with the decaying carcass of Western Civilization.

As far as I’m aware, the reason that Jews were allowed to live in Christian lands was because they believed that we should be a reminder of what happens to a nation who was promised everything and went against God. As for Muslims, we were allowed to live there as long as we paid the jizya tax due to being non-Muslims but still “people of the book” as they say.

As far as temple Judaism, you are thinking of the Sadducees. There has been a long development in the religion of pro-temple prophets like Amos and anti-temple prophets like Isaiah. The Pharisees (from which all modern Jews descend from) take more from this anti-temple tradition, and were more focused on community and implementing religion into daily life, rather than temple rituals that was mostly controlled by the Sadducees.

As for the Talmud, this is actually a misconception. When the temple was around, there was a centre of learning for how we are to interpret the Torah and many of the texts in the Tanakh. This is why it is called the Oral Law, because it was something that passed on generation go generation without being written. However, because of the destruction of the temple and the Jewish community becoming almost entirely a diaspora, the rabbis had to start recording all the commentaries and ideas in written form to make sure it did not become lost. So claiming that rabbis starting inventing a new religion based on the talmud is incorrect.

As for Christianity and Islam, this is more complicated. Early Christianity was probably just a form of Messianic Judaism like the Ebionites thought, and the religion was changed due to syncretism with heavy Greek influence such as from Paul the Apostle. Islam probably could be said to be somewhere in between the early Jewish Christians and Jewish tradition.

As for Christians being an anti-nazi movement, this is not correct historically neither under the early Church or even during the Apostles. The Apostles thought that Jesus would return in their very life and the resurrection was imminent. If you look at the Gospel of Matthew, you see that it claimed that after Jesus was resurrected that saints also started getting resurrected. Jesus was going to be at the right hand of the power on a heavenly throne next to God. As for the Christian tradition after that, the Roman bishops would famously get crowds of people go perform mob attacks against pagans and other non-christian groups in the streets. Nothing about these seem anti-nazi to me.

 

[Buried Alive 2.0]

What do you mean? The Jews are literally everywhere in high power (newspaper, politics, large companies)...
And look at the questionable support Israel is getting from Western countries and people.

Btw. I'm 100% a Westerner and white.

They're more powerful than you think. Just see how biased the Western media is reporting on the current conflict.

They're also very unfriendly as people.

Exactly. Since they own all major media companies they are the ones driving the feminist, woke, globohomo narrative forward. They are also in banking and I don't need to say much banks screw up peoples lives.

They create a society within society. This is very divisive and wreaks havoc in countries.

They also fund extreme-left, terrorist movements in South America.

 

[K9Otaku]

Of course you completely misunderstood what I said because, guess what, the average Jew is just as dumb as the average Goy.

I will just answer what you wrote below because this is what you apparently know best (unsurprisingly).

This is why it is called the Oral Law, because it was something that passed on generation go generation without being written. However, because of the destruction of the temple and the Jewish community becoming almost entirely a diaspora, the rabbis had to start recording all the commentaries and ideas in written form to make sure it did not become lost. So claiming that rabbis starting inventing a new religion based on the talmud is incorrect.

This is of course the Bullshit that Rabbis have been telling rank and file Jews since they created the RTP religion (around 500 AD, i.e. AFTER Christianity).

There was no "Oral Torah", of course. This was invented by the Rabbis. For example, neither Josephus nor Philo, nor even any of the Dead See Scrolls mention it. In other words none of the JEWISH texts roughly contemporary with the destruction of the Temple mention any "Oral Torah".

In Second Temple Judaism (i.e. REAL Judaism practiced in Judea), there was only one Torah, the 5 books of Moses. The Sadducees were not a variant of Judaism among many. They were the governing authorities of all the Jews and they had been since the return from the exile in Babylon. They were official standard Judaism and they held both the high priesthood and civil authority in Jerusalem. They were the only REAL Jews who practiced Judaism in Judea (which is the meaning of the word "Judaism", as I said).

Under their authority, Judaism was very different from what it pretends to be now:

• No purity rules for the common folks (only Sabbath and festival attendance)
• Sacrifice at the Temple by levites, every day + 1 visit of the High priest to the Holy of Holies per year.
• No Messiah (except as a vague reference in Isaiah and other prophets)
• No eternal life

That's it. That is what REAL historical Judaism was.

Under the Sadducees, the Pharisees were a kind of political party which clashed quite often with established authority (the Sadducees) and did not represent the majority of Judaism. There were many other currents (as is attested in the Dead Sea Scrolls), most of which have disappeared today.

When the Temple was destroyed and the Jews kicked out of Judea proper (in 70AD and in 135AD), the Diaspora Jewish population (which the refugees from Judea joined) continued to follow the many currents that had existed before. Some of these sects coalesced to form Christianity (before any kind of Mishnah had been written) from the late 1st century onward. In the late 2nd century or early 3rd, some former Pharisee Rabbis starting writing the Mishnah, probably in Galillee (the only part of former Judea still allowed to the Jews). They wrote it according to the evolution of their own ideas which were, by then, very different from original Judaism (over 200 years had elapsed since the destruction of the Temple). At the time, they were a tiny minority movement.

In the next centuries, Babylon (under Persian overlordship) became the center of Mishnaic writing and commentary. This is why, when the Talmud was finalized (around the 6th century AD), its main recension was done in that city (Talmud Bavli). As you know, The Talmud includes the Mishnah, plus various commentaries and additions (Mishnah + Gemara + Tosaphot). The "Oral Torah" was a pious lie invented to lend credibility to this compendium of then recent texts (all more recent then the New Testament) By then, few Jews remained within the Roman Empire. They had either become Christian (the majority of them) or disappeared into the pagan population of the Empire.

Bottom line: What passes for "Judaism" today is a religion invented in Babylon by a few ex-Pharisees, based on various memories and scraps of texts that were, by then many centuries distant from original Judaism. This religion (RTP, Rabbinic Talmudic Pharisaism) was essentially complete just before Islam appeared. Under the early Muslim Caliphates, it prospered because Muslims were still a small minority in the areas they controlled and they were therefore quite tolerant, provided Jizya was paid in a timely fashion. Many other religious communities were essentially unmolested during these early Muslim centuries: Druzes, Mandeans, Zaidis, all manner of heterodox Christians, Persian Zoroastrians (of several sects), etc.

From then on The RTP sect re-appeared in the West through immigration along the traditional trade routes of the Medditerranean sea. The Spanish Caliphate of Cordoba and the Crusades also gave added impetus to the trickle of RTP immigration into Christian Europe. RTPers were accepted ("welcomed" would be an overstatement) in Europe because they claimed to be "Jews", which Christians could not completely reject. For a long time, the Talmud was semi-secret in Europe. Indeed it created a number of well publicized scandals when a few converted Jews gave copies to the Christian Church and its content was revealed (especially the story of Jesus being the "Son of Pantera").

It is unclear to what extent the current European Jewish population (Ashkenazi) is the result of this immigration from the Middle East during the Middle Ages. It is quite clear that the supposed Khazar ancestry of the Ashkenazi is a fiction. They are most likely a mixture of medieval RTP immigration from the Middle East, some former Jews left over from the Roman period, and maybe even some individuals who converted back from Christianity to RTP, thinking it was "original Judaism". Throughout the Middle Ages, there is a constant stream of testimonies from Christian clerics complaining that some of their church fellows were "Judaizing", i.e. attending the Synagogue on certain days, following certain RTP observances, etc. In one case (the Ethiopian Falasha) it is quite clear that a whole "Jewish" community was created out of whole cloth from a population that had been exclusively Christian before. Also the fact that some Khazars could convert to "Judaism" in the 8th century means that RTP missionaries were active at this time within the Muslim area of control and on its periphery.

This is the real history of RTP, a religion more recent than Christianity, that falsely advertises itself as "Judaism"

You were fooled into it like all the other supposed "Jews" of today.

Reminder: I am NOT a Christian (I believe that Jesus is a made up character and that Paul is the real inventor of Christianity). I am not trying to convert anyone. All I mention above comes from numerous mainstream academic sources.

 

[K9Otaku]

Exactly. Since they own all major media companies they are the ones driving the feminist, woke, globohomo narrative forward. They are also in banking and I don't need to say much banks screw up peoples lives.

They create a society within society. This is very divisive and wreaks havoc in countries.

They also fund extreme-left, terrorist movements in South America.

Midwit drivel

 

[K9Otaku]

Hello @Copexodius Maximus, the not so smart Jew, it is time to learn the history of your own people (minus the bullshit)

 

[K9Otaku]

@Clarus

 

[Shinichi Kudo]

The Jews are the incels of history, they were rejected and bullied by all civilizations and nations so they evolved manipulating skills to survive in their societies. Jews invented monotheist religion, capitalism, psychology, sociology etc Jews contribute to science that control people.

 

[K9Otaku]

Jews invented monotheist religion, capitalism, psychology, sociology etc Jews contribute to science that control people.

All this is legendary. Jews never invented anything, not even monotheism. Monotheism was "invented" by Akhenaten, at a time when the Jews did not even exist.

 

[Shinichi Kudo]

All this is legendary. Jews never invented anything, not even monotheism. Monotheism was "invented" by Akhenaten, at a time when the Jews did not even exist.

Prophets who called to one God existed before Akhenaten.
Psychology was invented by the Jew Freud
Sociology was invented by the Jew Émile Durkheim
Capitalism was invented the banker Jews

 

[NorthernWind]

Prophets who called to one God existed before Akhenaten.
Psychology was invented by the Jew Freud
Sociology was invented by the Jew Émile Durkheim
Capitalism was invented the baker Jews

Freud just popularized psychology.
Psychology as a 'scientific' discipline was invented in 1879 by Wilhelm Wund if I'm not mistaken.
Psychologists for some strange reason don't know their own discipline's history.
They say it's very young discipline despite the fact that some authors wrote about 'psychology' in the first half of XVIII century and maybe earlier.

 

[Gott _mit _uns94]

What is this j00ish infltartion.

j00s are behind world degenracy, are degenrate corrupt and are psyhopaths that don't even care for their 0wn people.

Uncensord history is right about them.

f*ck those z10nist posts.

 

[Caesercel]

Don't take anti semitism too seriously. In the middle ages they used to blame jews for spreading the bubonic plague by poisoning the well. Things like this make it hard to take any modern accusations at jews seriously

 

[K9Otaku]

Prophets who called to one God existed before Akhenaten.

Who?

Psychology was invented by the Jew Freud

Nope. Freud invented Psychoanalysis. Psychology in general existed at least for 50 years before

Sociology was invented by the Jew Émile Durkheim

Nope. Tocqueville was called the first Sociologist, over 50 years before Durkheim.

Capitalism was invented the banker Jews

Nope. It was invented by protestant businessmen in the Netherlands an England.

 

[K9Otaku]

What is this j00ish infltartion.

j00s are behind world degenracy, are degenrate corrupt and are psyhopaths that don't even care for their 0wn people.

Uncensord history is right about them.

f*ck those z10nist posts.

Lowbrow midwit

 

[K9Otaku]

Don't take anti semitism too seriously. In the middle ages they used to blame jews for spreading the bubonic plague by poisoning the well. Things like this make it hard to take any modern accusations at jews seriously

Indeed

 

[blackpillednigga]

American Israel Public Affairs Committee - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Israel lobby in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Shinichi Kudo]

Who?

Prophet Noah.

Nope. Freud invented Psychoanalysis. Psychology in general existed at least for 50 years before

Freud invented the basic concepts of psychology like Id. Ego and superego. Freud made psychology a rational science.

Nope. Tocqueville was called the first Sociologist, over 50 years before Durkheim.

Tocqueville was a political philosopher not a sociologist.

Nope. It was invented by protestant businessmen in the Netherlands an England.

Protestantism is based the Judeo-Christian cult. The Jews are the basis. Christianity is just a Jewish heresy.

 

[Copexodius Maximus]

Of course you completely misunderstood what I said because, guess what, the average Jew is just as dumb as the average Goy.

I will just answer what you wrote below because this is what you apparently know best (unsurprisingly).

This is of course the Bullshit that Rabbis have been telling rank and file Jews since they created the RTP religion (around 500 AD, i.e. AFTER Christianity).

There was no "Oral Torah", of course. This was invented by the Rabbis. For example, neither Josephus nor Philo, nor even any of the Dead See Scrolls mention it. In other words none of the JEWISH texts roughly contemporary with the destruction of the Temple mention any "Oral Torah".

In Second Temple Judaism (i.e. REAL Judaism practiced in Judea), there was only one Torah, the 5 books of Moses. The Sadducees were not a variant of Judaism among many. They were the governing authorities of all the Jews and they had been since the return from the exile in Babylon. They were official standard Judaism and they held both the high priesthood and civil authority in Jerusalem. They were the only REAL Jews who practiced Judaism in Judea (which is the meaning of the word "Judaism", as I said).

Under their authority, Judaism was very different from what it pretends to be now:

• No purity rules for the common folks (only Sabbath and festival attendance)
• Sacrifice at the Temple by levites, every day + 1 visit of the High priest to the Holy of Holies per year.
• No Messiah (except as a vague reference in Isaiah and other prophets)
• No eternal life

That's it. That is what REAL historical Judaism was.

Under the Sadducees, the Pharisees were a kind of political party which clashed quite often with established authority (the Sadducees) and did not represent the majority of Judaism. There were many other currents (as is attested in the Dead Sea Scrolls), most of which have disappeared today.

When the Temple was destroyed and the Jews kicked out of Judea proper (in 70AD and in 135AD), the Diaspora Jewish population (which the refugees from Judea joined) continued to follow the many currents that had existed before. Some of these sects coalesced to form Christianity (before any kind of Mishnah had been written) from the late 1st century onward. In the late 2nd century or early 3rd, some former Pharisee Rabbis starting writing the Mishnah, probably in Galillee (the only part of former Judea still allowed to the Jews). They wrote it according to the evolution of their own ideas which were, by then, very different from original Judaism (over 200 years had elapsed since the destruction of the Temple). At the time, they were a tiny minority movement.

In the next centuries, Babylon (under Persian overlordship) became the center of Mishnaic writing and commentary. This is why, when the Talmud was finalized (around the 6th century AD), its main recension was done in that city (Talmud Bavli). As you know, The Talmud includes the Mishnah, plus various commentaries and additions (Mishnah + Gemara + Tosaphot). The "Oral Torah" was a pious lie invented to lend credibility to this compendium of then recent texts (all more recent then the New Testament) By then, few Jews remained within the Roman Empire. They had either become Christian (the majority of them) or disappeared into the pagan population of the Empire.

Bottom line: What passes for "Judaism" today is a religion invented in Babylon by a few ex-Pharisees, based on various memories and scraps of texts that were, by then many centuries distant from original Judaism. This religion (RTP, Rabbinic Talmudic Pharisaism) was essentially complete just before Islam appeared. Under the early Muslim Caliphates, it prospered because Muslims were still a small minority in the areas they controlled and they were therefore quite tolerant, provided Jizya was paid in a timely fashion. Many other religious communities were essentially unmolested during these early Muslim centuries: Druzes, Mandeans, Zaidis, all manner of heterodox Christians, Persian Zoroastrians (of several sects), etc.

From then on The RTP sect re-appeared in the West through immigration along the traditional trade routes of the Medditerranean sea. The Spanish Caliphate of Cordoba and the Crusades also gave added impetus to the trickle of RTP immigration into Christian Europe. RTPers were accepted ("welcomed" would be an overstatement) in Europe because they claimed to be "Jews", which Christians could not completely reject. For a long time, the Talmud was semi-secret in Europe. Indeed it created a number of well publicized scandals when a few converted Jews gave copies to the Christian Church and its content was revealed (especially the story of Jesus being the "Son of Pantera").

It is unclear to what extent the current European Jewish population (Ashkenazi) is the result of this immigration from the Middle East during the Middle Ages. It is quite clear that the supposed Khazar ancestry of the Ashkenazi is a fiction. They are most likely a mixture of medieval RTP immigration from the Middle East, some former Jews left over from the Roman period, and maybe even some individuals who converted back from Christianity to RTP, thinking it was "original Judaism". Throughout the Middle Ages, there is a constant stream of testimonies from Christian clerics complaining that some of their church fellows were "Judaizing", i.e. attending the Synagogue on certain days, following certain RTP observances, etc. In one case (the Ethiopian Falasha) it is quite clear that a whole "Jewish" community was created out of whole cloth from a population that had been exclusively Christian before. Also the fact that some Khazars could convert to "Judaism" in the 8th century means that RTP missionaries were active at this time within the Muslim area of control and on its periphery.

This is the real history of RTP, a religion more recent than Christianity, that falsely advertises itself as "Judaism"

You were fooled into it like all the other supposed "Jews" of today.

Reminder: I am NOT a Christian (I believe that Jesus is a made up character and that Paul is the real inventor of Christianity). I am not trying to convert anyone. All I mention above comes from numerous mainstream academic sources.

This is just incorrect. Sadducees rejected the existence of an afterlife, resurrection, and anything other than the Torah (such as the Prophets and the Writings). Modern scholarship is pretty unanimous that modern Judaism is a descendant from the Pharisaic tradition.

The Jerusalem Talmud is even older than the Babylonian one, and it dates to second century. Although many Jews believe it dates back to Moses himself, the position of modern scholarship is that the Oral Torah developed over many centuries. There are fragments from Dead Sea Scrolls that match discussions that are found in the talmud.

The Passover Letters excavations from around 400BC show that many of the observances we only know about from the Talmud were written down in these long before it. The Halakhic Letter from the caves also shows that this commentarial discussion of law interpretation goes back long before the Talmud was written down. So to say Talmud was just made up bullshit to make a religion is completely inaccurate, but rather it is a long oral tradition of how the Bible and religion was interpreted for many centuries (including debates on issues).

As for Jesus, modern scholars mostly all agree that he was probably a historical person.

 

[CantEscapeYourFate]

Everyone worships Jews (aka white people). Just look at how everyone is supporting Israel despite them being 100% in the wrong.

 

[K9Otaku]

This is just incorrect. Sadducees rejected the existence of an afterlife, resurrection, and anything other than the Torah (such as the Prophets and the Writings). Modern scholarship is pretty unanimous that modern Judaism is a descendant from the Pharisaic tradition.

That is EXACTLY what I said. Are you dyslexic?

The Jerusalem Talmud is even older than the Babylonian one, and it dates to second century.

No. Some of the Mishna in it may date from the LATE 2nd century, but not the whole Jerusalem Talmud.

Although many Jews believe it dates back to Moses himself, the position of modern scholarship is that the Oral Torah developed over many centuries.

"many centuries" AFTER the destruction of the Temple.

The Passover Letters excavations from around 400BC

There are NO extant Jewish manuscripts that are older than the Dead Sea Scrolls. You must be making a confusion with something else.

show that many of the observances we only know about from the Talmud were written down in these long before it.

Again: evidence please.

There are fragments from Dead Sea Scrolls that match discussions that are found in the talmud ...

The Halakhic Letter from the caves also shows that this commentarial discussion of law interpretation goes back long before the Talmud was written down.

The Halakhic letter completely differs from the Talmud and aligns with Sadducee positions. Besides, the "Halakah" in it concerns only priestly duties, NOT rules for ordinary folks (which did not exist at that time). If anything, it shows that Pharisee positions were not accepted by most Jews at the time.

So to say Talmud was just made up bullshit to make a religion is completely inaccurate,

I never said it is "Bullshit" in itself. I said it is a DIFFERENT religion from Judaism (as practiced in Judea).

What is bullshit is to pretend that this religion IS JUDAISM. No. It is just as Post-Judaic as Christianity or Islam.

but rather it is a long oral tradition of how the Bible and religion was interpreted for many centuries (including debates on issues).

Interpreted AFTER the Jerusalem Temple was destroyed. In many cases, LONG AFTER.

As for Jesus, modern scholars mostly all agree that he was probably a historical person.

Not really relevant to the debate, is it?

 

[ElTruecel]

Ok this take is retarded pretty sad coming from you lol.

Anyways please justify why these things were ok.

Uss liberty, Apollo Affair, Lavon Affair? Why were Jews kicked out of 109 countries? Jewish overrepresentation in banking + Jews controlling central banking?? Bolsheviks were mostly Jewish? Talmud and it’s disgusting remarks on the goyim? Dancing Israelis? Nathan Rothschild and the battle of Waterloo?

 

[ElTruecel]

Ok this take is retarded pretty sad coming from you lol.

Anyways please justify why these things were ok.

Uss liberty, Apollo Affair, Lavon Affair? Why were Jews kicked out of 109 countries? Jewish overrepresentation in banking + Jews controlling central banking?? Bolsheviks were mostly Jewish? Talmud and it’s disgusting remarks on the goyim? Dancing Israelis? Nathan Rothschild and the battle of Waterloo?

@Copexodius Maximus @Firefly @oldcel75 @Zhou Chang-Xing @THE TRUE DIGLET opinions

 

[Copexodius Maximus]

That is EXACTLY what I said. Are you dyslexic?

In your original comment, you said they were not a just a sect among many. But this is simply incorrect, as they had many differing beliefs from the Pharisees.

No. Some of the Mishna in it may date from the LATE 2nd century, but not the whole Jerusalem Talmud.

Yes, it was the earliest part written down. But it dates to far earlier in oral tradition.

"many centuries" AFTER the destruction of the Temple.

This is incorrect. Rabbinical interpretation of the Bible was something that was going on for many centuries before it was written down. This is what was passed through oral tradition as I said above.

There are NO extant Jewish manuscripts that are older than the Dead Sea Scrolls. You must be making a confusion with something else.

This is incorrect, as there are manuscupts that date back to the 8th century BCE.

Again: evidence please.

The Passover Papyrus from Elephantine

A papyrus letter, written in Aramaic, from the fortified island of Elephantine in Egypt. The letter was written c. 419 BCE by a Jewish man named Hananiah and is addressed to his brother Jedoniah and...

www.worldhistory.org

The Halakhic letter completely differs from the Talmud and aligns with Sadducee positions.

What this shows is that an interpretative tradition of the Bible goes back many centuries, even in the most strict and “letter of the law” tradition of Judaism. The Misnah that was written down later is no different.

Besides, the "Halakah" in it concerns only priestly duties, NOT rules for ordinary folks (which did not exist at that time). If anything, it shows that Pharisee positions were not accepted by most Jews at the time.

The Pharisaic tradition extended the Halakah to everyone. And it was the most popular form of Judaism at the time because it appealed to the poor and average Jews due to its emphasis on charity and works rather than rituals in a temple.

I never said it is "Bullshit" in itself. I said it is a DIFFERENT religion from Judaism (as practiced in Judea).

What is bullshit is to pretend that this religion IS JUDAISM. No. It is just as Post-Judaic as Christianity or Islam.

Modern Judaism is a natural progression of ancient Pharisaic Judaism (at least from time of the Pharisees). Everything in the Talmud is interpretation and application of what is in the Tanakh by scholars, going back to many centuries before Christianity was invented. If you want to say that Pharisaic Judaism is an anti-temple innovation, then you would have a point, but Christianity and Islam would be further innovations on top of that (plus Essene influence in Christianity).

Interpreted AFTER the Jerusalem Temple was destroyed. In many cases, LONG AFTER.

I showed you that interpreting is something that was done even in the Sadducee tradition, who were supposedly just accepted the Torah and nothing else. So claiming that the Pharisees also had an interpretive tradition back in those days is not an unbelievable claim.

Another piece of evidence is that Pharisee comes from the word parash in Hebrew. This has two meaning, either to quit/separate or to interpret (makes things clear). Although the first meaning is the more popular one (as they were trying to vitalize the Jewish masses against the hellenization and secularization of the community). But if look at the second meaning, it’s quite obvious that the entire sect is based on the idea that they had strong tradition of interpreting their scriptures.

Third, the Misnah directly mentions the opinions of many scholars that were around before the destruction of the second temple occurred.

Fourth, we can look at what modern scholarship says. From just basic googling it says

“According to modern scholarship, the traditions embodied in what later became known as the "Oral Torah" developed over generations among the inhabitants of Judeaand were passed down through various modes of cultural transmission, including but not restricted to oral transmission. It is hypothesized that, sometime prior to the Babylonian exile of 586-530 BCE, in applying the Mosaic code to daily life and Temple worship, "a multitude of usages arising out of practical necessity or convenience or experience became part of the routine of observance of the code, and, in the course of time, shared the sanctity and authority which were inherent in the divinely inspired code itself."

So based on all these various points, it would make no sense to deny that Pharisaic interpretive traditions go far back into history before the destruction of the second temple.

 

[K9Otaku]

Ok this take is retarded pretty sad coming from you lol.

Did you read it entirely? If so, what is wrong with it? Don't be fooled by what people repeat all the time. Jewish power is a myth

Uss liberty,

No one really knows what happened that day. Friendly fire happens in war.

Apollo Affair,

So Israel stole some Uranium. Ok. I never said they were angels (quite the contrary). But what does one heist prove?

Lavon Affair?

Dirty tricks, ok. Not good. But that does not appear to me to be the kind of thing an all-powerful entity would do. If they needed to do this kind of thing, it means they were pretty weak.

Why were Jews kicked out of 109 countries?

Medieval expulsions? Ok, like I said, the Jews had this complicated relation with Christian (and Muslim) rulers during that period. They were mostly protected but sometimes not.

Jewish overrepresentation in banking + Jews controlling central banking??

Jews do not control central banking. This is a myth.

Bolsheviks were mostly Jewish?

Yes, but then they were nearly all eliminated. Stalin killed almost all of them. Not exactly a good start for a plot to conquer the world.

Talmud and it’s disgusting remarks on the goyim?

Yes, the Talmud is nasty to the Goyim. Like I said, RTP is the ideological ancestor of Nazism. It does not mean they are strong.

Dancing Israelis?

What are you referring to?

Nathan Rothschild and the battle of Waterloo?

Financiers played a big role in early modern wars (advancing money to Kings to pay troops). It started in the 14th century with the Fugger, Jacques Coeur, and many others. Most of these financiers were not Jewish.

 

[K9Otaku]

In your original comment, you said they were not a just a sect among many. But this is simply incorrect, as they had many differing beliefs from the Pharisees.

The Sadducees were the guys in charge. So their beliefs pretty much DEFINED official Judaism at the time. The Pharisees, for their part, WERE a sect. They had heterodox views that were rejected by the Jewish establishment (the Sadducees) and they were clearly not in a majority.

Judea was a theocratic state and The Sadducees were in charge ("Sadducees" means "descendants of Zadok", the High priest of Solomon, i.e. the LEGITIMATE line). They were the ones who told others what Judaism was and they had the power to enforce it because they had civil authority.

Yes, it was the earliest part written down. But it dates to far earlier in oral tradition.

How do you know?

This is incorrect. Rabbinical interpretation of the Bible was something that was going on for many centuries before it was written down. This is what was passed through oral tradition as I said above.

How do you know?

This is incorrect, as there are manuscupts that date back to the 8th century BCE.

No. A few short inscriptions, but no manuscripts.

The earliest Jewish MANUSCRIPTS (physical texts on a piece of parchment or papyrus) are the Dead Sea Scroll

The Passover Papyrus from Elephantine

A papyrus letter, written in Aramaic, from the fortified island of Elephantine in Egypt. The letter was written c. 419 BCE by a Jewish man named Hananiah and is addressed to his brother Jedoniah and...

www.worldhistory.org

That is NOT a manuscript. It is a scrap of papyrus with no more than a couple dozen Hebrew letters on it. There is no way to know what it is actually talking about. Besides, I never said that Passover did not exist before the Talmud. Of course it did. It is referenced abundantly in the Torah (the OT). And it is even today celebrated by Christians under the name of Easter in English. Of course RTP re-used many Jewish elements, but so did Christianity and also Islam (circumcision, aniconic worship, legalism, the Messiah, etc).

I am NOT saying that RTP appeared out of nowhere. I am saying that it is no more "Jewish" than the other Abrahamic-influenced faiths.

What this shows is that an interpretative tradition of the Bible goes back many centuries,

Yes but not necessarily the tradition that passes as "Judaism" today. Christianity is also based on the pre-Christian (i.e. Jewish)) "interpretative tradition of the Bible", and so is Islam.

What I am saying is this:

Before the Destruction of the Temple (70 AD): Judaism

After the Destruction of the Temple (70 AD): Not Judaism, because Judaism is centered on Worship at the Temple. No Temple, No Judaism.

After 70AD, the only thing you have are Post Judaic Sects:

• Christians (many varieties)
• RTP: Rabbinic Talmudic Pharisaism (THIS IS NOT JUDAISM)
• Muslims (a Christian knock-off + with a lot of RTP influences)

The Pharisaic tradition extended the Halakah to everyone.

Which is completely un-Jewish. Judaism was a religion of priests (the Levites). Extending priestly purity rules to non-priests completely changes the spirit of the religion. This is as different form original Temple Judaism as Christianity or Islam.

And it was the most popular form of Judaism at the time

It was not. Pharisees were a minority (although they were politically influential)

because it appealed to the poor and average Jews due to its emphasis on charity and works rather than rituals in a temple.

This is exactly what I am saying. RTP is a DIFFERENT religion. Judaism was about "rituals in a temple" and only that. Yes, may Jews grew tired of this and that is why they turned to other religions, like Christianity, RTP and Islam eventually.

You have never done "rituals in a temple", so you do not know what it is. Here in India, I see people whose religion is only "rituals in a temple" (Hindus). Believe me, if you tell them that they can still follow THE SAME RELIGION while completely stopping "rituals in a temple", they will think you are mad.

Yes, I know that Jews had no choice, because the Temple was destroyed and they were not allowed to rebuild it. Tough luck. If you are forced to no longer practice your religion, you have to invent a new one. It is fine to do so, but it is NOT FINE to pretend that your NEW religion is THE SAME as the old one. THAT is deceptive.

Modern Judaism is a natural progression of ancient Pharisaic Judaism sectarian thought

Pharisaism is not Judaism.

Everything in the Talmud is interpretation and application of what is in the Tanakh

No. It is a PARTICULAR interpretation, just like Christianity is a particular Interpretation of the OT.

Nowhere in the Tankh is it said that the ordinary folks must follow priestly purity rules and that this would replace sacrifice at the Temple. The Tanakh describes a religion based on sacrifice. No sacrifice, no Judaism.

going back to many centuries before Christianity was invented.

Absolutely not. RTP is attested no early than the late 2nd century AD (early Mishnah).

If you want to say that Pharisaic Judaism is an anti-temple innovation, then you would have a point,

Yes, it is a different religion.

but Christianity and Islam would be further innovations on top of that (plus Essene influence in Christianity).

Christianity is not a bigger innovation than RTP

At least in Christianity, the sacrifice is retained (although in a symbolic manner), in the form of the bread and the wine (the sacrificial lamb). This sacrifice is performed by a priest and then fed to the assembled faithful. This is more Jewish that what Rabbis do.

I showed you that interpreting is something that was done even in the Sadducee tradition, who were supposedly just accepted the Torah and nothing else. So claiming that the Pharisees also had an interpretive tradition back in those days is not an unbelievable claim.

I never denied this. What I am saying is that Pharisee interpretations prior to the destruction of the Temple was a DISSENTING OPINION which was at variance with what was then orthodox Judaism (sacrifice at the Temple, no Halakah for the rank and file).

Another piece of evidence is that Pharisee comes from the word parash in Hebrew. This has two meaning, either to quit/separate or to interpret (makes things clear). Although the first meaning is the more popular one (as they were trying to vitalize the Jewish masses against the hellenization and secularization of the community). But if look at the second meaning, it’s quite obvious that the entire sect is based on the idea that they had strong tradition of interpreting their scriptures.

The first meaning is very clear. They were a SEPARATE sect from mainstream Judaism. In other words, they were HERETICS. The word "hairesis" in Greek, which is the origin of the English word "heretic" also means "those who separate"

Third, the Misnah directly mentions the opinions of many scholars that were around before the destruction of the second temple occurred.

That does not mean that these scholars were fairly quoted or that they supported what later became RTP. After someone is dead, you can make him say whatever you want. It does not mean anything.

Fourth, we can look at what modern scholarship says. From just basic googling it says

“According to modern scholarship, the traditions embodied in what later became known as the "Oral Torah" developed over generations among the inhabitants of Judeaand were passed down through various modes of cultural transmission, including but not restricted to oral transmission. It is hypothesized that, sometime prior to the Babylonian exile of 586-530 BCE, in applying the Mosaic code to daily life and Temple worship, "a multitude of usages arising out of practical necessity or convenience or experience became part of the routine of observance of the code, and, in the course of time, shared the sanctity and authority which were inherent in the divinely inspired code itself."

What kind of "Scholar" is this from?

So based on all these various points, it would make no sense to deny that Pharisaic interpretive traditions go far back into history before the destruction of the second temple.

Absolutely not. What you have said so far is that the Pharisees were a HERETICAL sect that was at variance with the normative practices of Judaism in their time (Sacrifice at the Temple, prior to its destruction). Eventually, this HERETICAL sect gave rise to a different religion (RTP) exactly like another heretical Jewish sect (the Essenes) gave rise to Christianity.

The claim that modern RTPers are "more Jewish" than Christians or Muslims is a scam. It is IMPOSSIBLE to be Jewish today (no Temple). The only thing you can do today is to be Post-Jewish, along with the Christians and the Muslims. This is the only HONEST way to describe the current situation.

 

[K9Otaku]

@Copexodius Maximus

Let me give you an example of what I would consider REAL Judaism.

Let us suppose that in the late 2nd century AD (when it had become clear that the Jews would not be able to reconquer Jerusalem or rebuild the Temple anytime soon), a prophet appeared and said:

Guys, I have been sent by Hashem to tell you this: Hashem punished us for our many sins by withdrawing from our midst and letting the Romans destroy His House. The faithful among Hashem's people will accept the punishment from Hashem. They will return to the desert and build a tent like in the time of Moses. They will build it according to the specifications contained in the Torah and the sons of Levi will conduct sacrifices there as Hashem specified, also in the Torah. The faithful among Hashem's people will become pastoralists once again, like in the time of Moses, and they will wait in the deserts of Syria and Arabia until Hashem gives them the signal to return to Jerusalem and re-establish Hashem's house there.​

This would have been a sincere effort at continuing real Judaism because it would have respected the spirit of the Torah. All the fundamental features described therein would have been preserved in this scenario.

But of course, no Jew wanted to do that. No Jew wanted to become a Bedouin once again. The Torah is supposed to be "LAW", right? How is it that no modern Jew follows THE LAW then? It would have been POSSIBLE to follow it, like I showed above.

That is why I am saying that, from that time onward, Judaism disappeared, because no one wanted to make the necessary effort to actually practice it.

The Christians were honest about it. They said, "This is a New Thing; a New Covenant"

RTPers decided to be dishonest. They said "We are still Jews, even though we are doing something completely different".

This dishonesty is at the heart of modern "Judaism". It contributes to the bad reputation "Jews" have. Everyone senses that there is something fishy about this religion. That is why Luther wrote "On the Jews and their lies", etc