Based Iqs in China weren't always high. They became high as a result of living conditions improving. This is evidence that race realism is bullshit

[Logic55]

@Biowaste Removal was trolling there, I didn't notice until he implied it & you seem to see the same

Honestly man you're probably autistic as I am, no offense but you are just giving me so many signs

I have to repeat myself to make it clear. You are stubborn. And here we go again with allegations that I'm autistic

 

[BPmonk]

this is what's called a "whataboutism"

And no, race is clearly defined by genotype

I’m not sure where the “whatabaoutism” is? You said that race was real and I simply asked you to clarify that claim by specifying how you divide up different racial groups. Also, any geneticist would tell you that not even genotype would be a good metric by which to distinguish different racial groups. For example, there’s more genetic diversity within the continent of Africa alone than the rest of the world but I’d assume that you don’t believe that all the hundreds of different ethnic groups within the continent each constitute different races.

 

[Logic55]

You didn’t claim they increased, “Logic.” You claimed or at least implied they DRASTICALLY increased. You literally said Chinese IQ scores “were not high before the advent of the 21st century.” Yet your only evidence of that is a study with no sample size

Ok, it wasnt drastic. IQ scores still increased during the 80s, right?

 

[Logic55]

You didn’t claim they increased, “Logic.” You claimed or at least implied they DRASTICALLY increased. You literally said Chinese IQ scores “were not high before the advent of the 21st century.” Yet your only evidence of that is a study with no sample size

A study by the university of Pennsylvania shows that IQ increased by 20 points from 1986-2006, don't you think this a big leap?

 

[Koomersarj]

A study by the university of Pennsylvania shows that IQ increased by 20 points from 1986-2006, don't you think this a big leap?

Link the study

 

[Logic55]

Link the study

http://www.iapsych.com/iqmr/fe/LinkedDocuments/liu2012.pdf

 

[DarkStar]

I’m not sure where the “whatabaoutism” is?

Because this is a convo on race, and you basically said "well ackchually" in regards to race

You said that race was real and I simply asked you to clarify that claim by specifying how you divide up different racial groups.

Genotypes & anthropological measurements

Also, any geneticist would tell you that not even genotype would be a good metric by which to distinguish different racial groups.

"trust the experts bro"

And modern science agrees:

Modern Europeans Descended from Three Groups of Ancestors | HHMI

HHMI scientists have shown that previously unrecognized groups contributed to the genetic mix now present in most modern-day Europeans.

www.hhmi.org

For example, there’s more genetic diversity within the continent of Africa alone than the rest of the world

And for Europe, we're all tight:

but I’d assume that you don’t believe that all the hundreds of different ethnic groups

ethnic group=/=race

And ethnic groups are parts of a race

within the continent each constitute different races.

I am aware East Africans & "Horners" are different from many other sub-saharans, I am also aware the Khoisan differ from Bantus.

So you just made an assumption, which is unjustified

Try again kid

 

[based_meme]

Hey based meme, prove to me that Chinese people became smart because of their geography. If you don't have any evidence other than "muh blood and soil' then shut the fuck up.

The fact is that they are smarter than some other people. I didn't make the claim about geography, the other guy did, genius. You can debate the why, but if you want to contest that geography has no effect, then you're refuting the environmental effect argument and are shooting yourself in the foot. JFL

 

[Logic55]

The fact is that they are smarter than some other people. I didn't make the claim about geography, the other guy did, genius. You can debate the why, but if you want to contest that geography has no effect, then you're refuting the environmental effect argument and are shooting yourself in the foot. JFL

Well, if you think that IQs for Chinese people are high because of blood and soil then you are wrong. Keep living in denial, clownboy

 

[based_meme]

Well, if you think that IQs for Chinese people are high because of blood and soil then you are wrong. Keep living in denial, clownboy

No, it's high (higher than some others) because of genetics. JFL

 

[Logic55]

No, it's high (higher than some others) because of genetics. JFL

Not true because of cultural differences, white supremacist Soyboy

 

[DarkStar]

Darkstar is repeating the same argument which is "much genetics". Genetics matters but environment is also important. Darkstar and his race realist friends constantly downplay importance of socioeconomic factors. This is why we will never agree

I've already stated they do matter, but genetics trumps all

Again, you are denying the premise of the blackpill

 

[Logic55]

I've already stated they do matter, but genetics trumps all

Again, you are denying the premise of the blackpill

Studies show that genetics has more influence but it doesn't mean One race isn't genetically smarter than another. That is a different topic

 

[DarkStar]

Studies show that genetics has more influence but it doesn't mean One race isn't genetically smarter than another. That is a different topic

And genetics are linked to race...

 

[Logic55]

And genetics are linked to race...

Ye but when it comes to intelligence there is no strong link between race and Iq. Humans are 99.8% genetically similar.

 

[based_meme]

Not true because of cultural differences, white supremacist Soyboy

JFL @ "muh culture."

This is what NPC programming looks like. Reddit certified and approved.

 

[Logic55]

JFL @ "muh culture."

This is what NPC programming looks like. Reddit certified and approved.

I'm just saying simple facts and you think you're right because you're brainwashed by far right propaganda. You're a far right shill, it's like you're stuck in a cult.

 

[based_meme]

Ye but when it comes to intelligence there is no strong link between race and Iq. Humans are 99.8% genetically similar.

AND MICE ARE 98% GENETICALLY SIMILAR TO HUMANS.

 

[DarkStar]

Humans are 99.8% genetically similar.

That's incorrect, maybe not in the way you mean.

What I mean is that we behave so differently, that race also dictates more than "muh looks"

And as mentioned, race is classified by genotype.

 

[based_meme]

I'm just saying simple facts and you think you're right because you're brainwashed by far right propaganda. You're a far right shill, it's like you're stuck in a cult.

This is too funny. Look in the fucking mirror.

 

[DarkStar]

I'm just saying simple facts and you think you're right because you're brainwashed by far right propaganda. You're a far right shill, it's like you're stuck in a cult.

Annnnndddddd now you sound like a Redditor....

 

[Logic55]

Annnnndddddd now you sound like a Redditor....

The line "You sound like a Redditor" is meaningless because you haven't proved that Chinese people are smart because of their DNA. Brining up twin studies is also irrelevant because they have nothing to do with race. They just show that IQ is mostly genetic. There is no strong link between race and IQ despite. Lastly, twin studies are misused by race realists.

 

[Koomersarj]

http://www.iapsych.com/iqmr/fe/LinkedDocuments/liu2012.pdf

I’m not seeing where this 20-point gain is:

It’s a fucking 5-point increase And I like how you wrote this thread as if you were presenting information that debooonks race realists that we had no idea about, yet Richard Lynn is literally listed as a contributor in this study

 

[Koomersarj]

By what standard do you delineate different racial groups? Isn’t it arbitrary?

Taxonomy as a whole is arbitrary By what standard do you delineate different species?

 

[based_meme]

I’m not seeing where this 20-point gain is:
View attachment 1393911View attachment 1393912
View attachment 1393913

It’s a fucking 5-point increase And I like how you wrote this thread as if you were presenting information that debooonks race realists that we had no idea about, yet Richard Lynn is literally listed as a contributor in this study

I'm a handful of posts away from putting this idiot on ignore. He'll be the first. It'll be quite the accomplishment for him, ngl.

 

[Logic55]

I’m not seeing where this 20-point gain is:
View attachment 1393911View attachment 1393912
View attachment 1393913

It’s a fucking 5-point increase And I like how you wrote this thread as if you were presenting information that debooonks race realists that we had no idea about, yet Richard Lynn is literally listed as a contributor in this study

Oh shoot, I misread my sources. Anyways, how do we know that their DNA made them high IQ?

 

[BPmonk]

Because this is a convo on race, and you basically said "well ackchually" in regards to race

Genotypes & anthropological measurements

"trust the experts bro"

And modern science agrees:

Modern Europeans Descended from Three Groups of Ancestors | HHMI

HHMI scientists have shown that previously unrecognized groups contributed to the genetic mix now present in most modern-day Europeans.

www.hhmi.org

And for Europe, we're all tight:
View attachment 1393893

ethnic group=/=race

And ethnic groups are parts of a race

I am aware East Africans & "Horners" are different from many other sub-saharans, I am also aware the Khoisan differ from Bantus.

So you just made an assumption, which is unjustified

Try again kid

Lmao, you keep dodging my basic point. I know Europe itself is diverse and I know the difference between race and ethnicity. What I’m trying to explain is that the categories that we chose to establish are completely subjective. If genotype is the basis for classifying different racial groups then there should be literally thousands of racial groups. Russians have different genotypes than Spaniards who are genetically different from Englishmen. Why not consider them different races? Just because those three groups of white people are more similar to eachother than to Africans or Asians?

The entire genetic distribution of the human race is better conceptualized as a gradient. Any concrete categories you try to draw will always be arbitrary. There’s no OBJECTIVE method of delineation.

 

[Logic55]

I'm a handful of posts away from putting this idiot on ignore. He'll be the first. It'll be quite the accomplishment for him, ngl.

I admitted that I got confused with my sources. It was a mistake. Aside from that. How do we know that they are high IQ because of their DNA?

 

[DarkStar]

Lmao, you keep dodging my basic point. I know Europe itself is diverse and I know the difference between race and ethnicity. What I’m trying to explain is that the categories that we chose to establish are completely subjective. If genotype is the basis for classifying different racial groups then there should be literally thousands of racial groups. Russians have different genotypes than Spaniards who are genetically different from Englishmen

Did you even look above? There is, all europeans descend from three groups and all are closer than any other race

. Why not consider them different races?

Because they're both White

Just because those three groups of white people are more similar to eachother than to Africans or Asians?

Again, whataboutism

The entire genetic distribution of the human race is better conceptualized as a gradient. Any concrete categories you try to draw will always be arbitrary. There’s no OBJECTIVE method of delineation.

This is insane coping, and is a deconstruction of race.

Race is very real, and can be drawn based on genetics.

Your logic here is the same SJWs follow

 

[Logic55]

Lmao, you keep dodging my basic point. I know Europe itself is diverse and I know the difference between race and ethnicity. What I’m trying to explain is that the categories that we chose to establish are completely subjective. If genotype is the basis for classifying different racial groups then there should be literally thousands of racial groups. Russians have different genotypes than Spaniards who are genetically different from Englishmen. Why not consider them different races? Just because those three groups of white people are more similar to eachother than to Africans or Asians?

The entire genetic distribution of the human race is better conceptualized as a gradient. Any concrete categories you try to draw will always be arbitrary. There’s no OBJECTIVE method of delineation.

Afghan people are considered white by US standards but many of them don't look white at all.

 

[BPmonk]

Taxonomy as a whole is arbitrary By what standard do you delineate different species?

Yes, taxonomy is completely arbitrary. The standards we use to delineate different species such as whether they possess characteristics like body hair, vertebrae, bipedal, etc. are all arbitrary. We made it up.

 

[DarkStar]

Lmao, you keep dodging my basic point. I know Europe itself is diverse and I know the difference between race and ethnicity. What I’m trying to explain is that the categories that we chose to establish are completely subjective. If genotype is the basis for classifying different racial groups then there should be literally thousands of racial groups. Russians have different genotypes than Spaniards who are genetically different from Englishmen. Why not consider them different races? Just because those three groups of white people are more similar to eachother than to Africans or Asians?

The entire genetic distribution of the human race is better conceptualized as a gradient. Any concrete categories you try to draw will always be arbitrary. There’s no OBJECTIVE method of delineation.

So basically, I answered your point that race isn't "arbitrary" and is in fact, quite easy to define here by showing genetics & then you went on about 40 different tangents.

 

[DarkStar]

Afghan people are considered white by US standards but many of them don't look white at all.

That wasn't the point......

Race is genetic, look what I shared

Modern Europeans Descended from Three Groups of Ancestors | HHMI

HHMI scientists have shown that previously unrecognized groups contributed to the genetic mix now present in most modern-day Europeans.

www.hhmi.org

Yes, taxonomy is completely arbitrary. The standards we use to delineate different species such as whether they possess characteristics like body hair, vertebrae, bipedal, etc. are all arbitrary. We made it up.

This is insane science denial here, you should be banned for blackpill denial tbh

 

[DarkStar]

Taxonomy as a whole is arbitrary By what standard do you delineate different species?

Using this always shatters these copers worldviews

 

[Logic55]

That wasn't the point......

Race is genetic, look what I shared

This is insane science denial here, you should be banned for blackpill denial tbh

Ok, I'm open to hearing what you have to say. Should afghans be considered part of the white race? Yes or no?

 

[Koomersarj]

Yes, taxonomy is completely arbitrary. The standards we use to delineate different species such as whether they possess characteristics like body hair, vertebrae, bipedal, etc. are all arbitrary. We made it up.

You failed to answer my question. What objective trait proves members of a group to be the same species?

 

[Logic55]

Using this always shatters these copers worldviews

At least answer the question. Don't be evasive

 

[DarkStar]

Ok, I'm open to hearing what you have to say. Should afghans be considered part of the white race? Yes or no?

No, because they're not genetically European

 

[DarkStar]

You failed to answer my question. What objective trait should members of a group have in common to be considered the same species?

exactly, it seems like this kid wants to follow the leftist worldview of "deconstructing race" until it doesn't matter, which is funny because he was the one mention the black community in the US on his profile page.

 

[Logic55]

No, because they're not genetically European

But why are they white according to the US government?

 

[DarkStar]

But why are they white according to the US government?

Do we have to go here?

I mean, come on now

The US government is LITERALLY involved in trying to replace Whites.

You failed to answer my question. What objective trait proves members of a group to be the same species?

Read above, according to this kid I "didnt answer his question" even though I explained how race is classified by genotype & provided evidence that in a way, various lines can be drawn though I do concede some "racial gray zones" exist

 

[Koomersarj]

The standards we use to delineate different species such as whether they possess characteristics like body hair, vertebrae, bipedal, etc. are all arbitrary.

Your implication is that taxonomy is entirely defined by physiology/body structure, yet you deny race as a legitimate form of taxonomy despite human races being easier to physically differentiate from one another than certain animal subspecies:

 

[Logic55]

Do we have to go here?

I'm curious

 

[BPmonk]

You failed to answer my question. What objective trait proves members of a group to be the same species?

We define species as a group of organisms that can breed with each-other and produce viable offspring. We CHOSE that standard to define species and because of that it’s still actually subjective. That doesn’t mean the standards and categories we come up with are useless, it just means that they’re arbitrary in the sense that people made the deviation to use that at the metric. That is literally what that word means.

 

[DarkStar]

Your implication is that taxonomy is entirely defined by physiology/body structure, yet you deny race as a legitimate form of taxonomy despite human races being easier to physically differentiate from one another than certain animal subspecies:
View attachment 1393920

That unironically is a @based_meme

And like I said here:

Lmao, you keep dodging my basic point. I know Europe itself is diverse and I know the difference between race and ethnicity. What I’m trying to explain is that the categories that we chose to establish are completely subjective. If genotype is the basis for classifying different racial groups then there should be literally thousands of racial groups. Russians have different genotypes than Spaniards who are genetically different from Englishmen. Why not consider them different races? Just because those three groups of white people are more similar to eachother than to Africans or Asians?

The entire genetic distribution of the human race is better conceptualized as a gradient. Any concrete categories you try to draw will always be arbitrary. There’s no OBJECTIVE method of delineation.

Is just a deconstruction of race, in which case we're all somehow the exact same despite the fact some of us have jet-black skin.

And yes, clear lines can be drawn

And jfl, he said he didn't use "whataboutisms" but clearly did here

 

[Logic55]

That unironically is a @based_meme

And like I said here:



Is just a deconstruction of race, in which case we're all somehow the exact same despite the fact some of us have jet-black skin.

And yes, clear lines can be drawn

And jfl, he said he didn't use "whataboutisms" but clearly did here

How many races are there? Is there a specific number?

 

[DarkStar]

How many races are there? Is there a specific number?

Tangents & more whataboutisms

Why can’t you wokecels ever stay on topic?

 

[Logic55]

Tangents & more whataboutisms

Why can’t you wokecels ever stay on topic?

Its just a question. I want to know what you think. I won't lash out because I have mixed thoughts on this topic

 

[Koomersarj]

We define species as a group of organisms that can breed with each-other and produce viable offspring.

Indeed. And yet

• brown bears and polar bears
• false killer whales and bottlenose dolphins
• dogs, wolves, and coyotes
• homo sapiens and other archaic hominids like erectus, denisovans, ans the african ghost ancestor

and more all considered different species yet can interbreed and produce fertile offspring.

We CHOSE that standard to define species and because of that it’s still actually subjective. That doesn’t mean the standards and categories we come up with are useless, it just means that they’re arbitrary in the sense that people made the deviation to use that at the metric. That is literally what that word means.

Yes, and that’s why “muhh it’s arbitrary” is a piss-poor debunk of race. All of taxonomy can be described as arbitrary. Regarding what you said earlier in this thread about what makes a Spaniard, Englishman, and Russian the same race, they all descend primarily from the same 3 ancient populations (Western Hunter-Gatherers, Anatolian Neolithic Farmers, and Early-to-Middle Bronze Age Steppe Herders) and this mixup hasn’t changed substantially since the Bronze Age (Spaniards/Meds and Russians/EEs have MENA and East Asian contributions respectively, but in both cases said contributions account for less than 10% of autosomal DNA). They also cluster closely together on PCA charts

 

[Diddy]

I lost a few IQ points reading this thread.