Blackpill Women like leanmaxxers more than musclemaxxers.

[Eugenicist]

Leanmaxxing pros over musclemaxxers
>shows more of your nonmalleable frame off because of your bones being vastly unchangeable, and so
>shows that you're not an insecure tryhard trying to overcompensate with masculinity, because you don't have the self worth to feel you're enough naturally. Where you have to cover up your natural frame with muscles.
>women are more about refinement than raw brute brawn these days. only baldies/ incels can play one card which is masculinemaxxing with muscles. Whereas femininity is about compartmentalizing your size to the bare bones (quite literally). Where it is feminine to be nimble/ but delicate. And the more delicate you go, the less space there is to hide.
>Women like the delicateness to be in men where there is less room for there to be change to your overall refinement.
>The less thin/ dainty you can go the less you can affect something and make it look right. The less places there are for geno-concealing.
>Women are into dainty guys because they have less room to appear artificial/ affected outside from what is deeply built in (genetics)

The more your form shows what is deep/ close to the core/ closecore based bodies, then the less room there is to hide/ the less area-space there is to cover yourself up, and the more delicate/ refined/ technique/detail based your way of living must be. Focusing less on big power strikes, and more on sophistication and agility when it comes to physical performance.

Funny thing is in most cases people can't fight in ways like video games, and women pick effeminate guys who would get rek'd in most situations irl, because there aren't martial arts that you could not be better at by being slender and elegant than being muscular/ athletic. But that's why lean muscles, and not bodybuilder muscles are ideal with technique/ speed based ability.

 

[Michael15651]

Yeah, that makes sense.

 

[Gengar]

What is "leanmaxxing"?

 

[Eugenicist]

What is "leanmaxxing"?

vs

 

[Gengar]

View attachment 90857 vs View attachment 90858

Tbh it's obvious then.

 

[Eugenicist]

Tbh it's obvious then.

yet no one specified it properly.
We don't live in the world where the biggest and buffest win. They're an anachronism to women. Nature has been filed down. Big guys get the boot. It's who is more aesthetically pleasing and who appeals to the notion of refinement, class, etc.
It's like we became a race that thought raw practicality was ideal like orcs... but now we think we can sacrifice working with the physics of the world and come to what is more serviceable for the human experience... like the aesthetic artistry of rome and the elves of tolkien/ fantasy.

 

[Deleted member 15752]

Debatable.

The concept of having muscle size bring in the "domination" halo effect.

 

[Eugenicist]

Debatable.

The concept of having muscle size bring in the "domination" halo effect.

There's chad value to be had in that. but women would rather be with the androgynous rockstar than the buffbrick with a big dick.
women want validation and refinement more than anything else.

 

[Deleted member 15752]

The concept of having muscle size bring in the "domination" halo effect.

There's chad value to be had in that. but women would rather be with the androgynous rockstar than the buffbrick with a big dick.
women want validation and refinement more than anything else.

There's chad value to be had in that. but women would rather be with the androgynous rockstar than the buffbrick with a big dick.
women want validation and refinement more than anything else.[/QUOTE]
As I said. This is up for debate.

Both situations would slay, there is no argument in that. In this case they can choose the pretty boy or the rough dominationmaxxed guy

 

[Eugenicist]

Eventually women begin to grow bored of overmasculine guys.
Domination halo works but the reason we talk about "chad" (caucasian white dominarch aryan) is because he succeeds in ornateness, and virility. With his face/ hair texture/ etc. there's more definement points.
You seem more earthy and undefined when you have anything that can be confused for ethnic.
Even sometimes if you're the rare hapa who looks like he has sharper eyes/ nose/ thicker hair because of being asian being put in the right places.
Best thing about being a type of hapa is being a noldor hapa (dark haired with elven like features). But even that can be seen as bizarre or ethnic, and thus turns off a girl's geno-harvesting scanners from you.

Both situations would slay, there is no argument in that. In this case they can choose the pretty boy or the rough dominationmaxxed guy

I'm saying their preference is leaning more towards refinement. But LEAN makes both virility and optimal ornateness visible.
Being too buff comes off as compensation, and I see it with a lot of squash-featured caucasians, or ethnics.
Women are subconsciously blackpilled and they will not speak their truth because women are easily prone to pressure to the point where it paralyzes their thinking. Always afraid of the looking glass to hide their inner hitler.

 

[Deleted member 15752]

Eventually women begin to grow bored of overmasculine guys.
Domination halo works but the reason we talk about "chad" is because he succeeds in ornateness, and virility. With his face/ hair texture/ etc. there's more definement points.

I'm saying their preference is leaning more towards refinement. But LEAN makes both virility and optimal ornateness visible.
Being too buff comes off as compensation, and I see it with a lot of squash-featured caucasians, or ethnics.
Women are subconsciously blackpilled and they will not speak their truth because women are easily prone to pressure to the point where it paralyzes their thinking. Always afraid of the looking glass to hide their inner hitler.

I agree.

But the best case scenario would be no doubt if the guy had some nice amount of defined muscle mass going on with a good set of deep cut abs. Obviously the factors of face, hair texture and other points come first. No doubt.

 

[Michael15651]

View attachment 90857 vs View attachment 90858

Yeah, the left fits more of the chad image

 

[Eugenicist]

I agree.

But the best case scenario would be no doubt if the guy had some nice amount of defined muscle mass going on with a good set of deep cut abs. Obviously the factors of face, hair texture and other points come first. No doubt.

Women estimate worthiness from the bottom up (bottom being birth-built nonmalleable frame traits). And up being artificials.
Although depending on where you location max, being white (like in SEA) may be novelty enough. or just have running water (most guys who go for eastern european girls use infrastructure, but now that time where getting those girls is coming to an end. And they're gold-diggers with geno-harvesting criteria that beta whites can't satisfy unlike noodlewhores.

Yeah, the left fits more of the chad image

he's a lean maxxer whereas terry crews is a nigger who only has maybe dick volume and muscle definition going for him.
but the genoharvester scanner females have will look at the white's facial definitions as a fire-rocket of novelty in of itself in addition to good frame genetics.

 

[lifeisbullshit95]

What is "leanmaxxing"?

 

[anon]

View attachment 90857 vs View attachment 90858

Lmao left pic is the genetic limit for top 10% of men bordering on juicy, look at those fucking delts and chest. Most natty men can never get that big and the ones who can have to workout regularly for at least 5+ years to achieve that. Basically, the guy on the left is huge for a natty and he definitely workouts hard and consistently.

Your post is maximum genetic natty potential vs roided animal.

Pic related is leanmaxxed, basically ottermode. Moderate muscle mass, very low body fat. Attainable natty, realistic.
Women don't really care about muscle, but some muscle helps if you're Chad. Low body fat is much more important. Having a wide neck is also much more important than chest, abs, arms. Also the wristpill is bullshit unless your wrists are 5", most of these guys have fairly small or average wrists.

It's really all about facial bones combined with low body fat percentage. Some muscle helps a little, but it's not necessary.
Also JFL at training your legs, fucking up your knees with hundreds of pounds of weight. No one but gymrats care about legs. Doing some light leg training is fine like pistol squats for example. No need for 400lbs+ squats.

 

[Curious0]

View attachment 90857 vs View attachment 90858

LOL how is that lean maxing. This is the result of years of dedicated musclemaxing

 

[Nothinglefttotry41]

View attachment 90857 vs View attachment 90858

you have clearly never worked out in your life if you don't think the guy on the left is big or a bodybuilder. that is like pro level naturally/amateur juicer. Impressive physique though and prob optimal for women too

 

[nice_try]

Woman brain:
lean - long schlong
muscles - tiny roid dick

 

[Deleted member 4159]

@Red Pill Rage

The purpose of going to the gym is to lean out your FACE. It's not an evolutionary to have blocky bloated muscles. If anything, they hinder your strength and speed.

 

[quinn24]

red pill fuckers saying "oh youre just too lazy to hit the gym", essentially contradicting themselves when they try to downplay lookism

No, it's because I recognize that I'm short and ugly.

 

[Deleted member 1252]

100% correct

Muscles don’t mean shit. Foids like very lean men.

JFL if you’re above 8% bf

 

[Inceldo]

You need good body shape to leanmax.

 

[Deleted member 7573]

View attachment 90857 vs View attachment 90858

Danm Terry kind have a shit frame

 

[z2020]

If she's attracted to your face then any signs showing you take care of your health is going to just be an added bonus, lean or muscular doesn't make that great deal of a difference. Similar to how men will still be attracted to a good looking girl who's thin, even if their body preferences may be someone who's "thicc".

But let's be real, what the hell do we know.

 

[femalesentience]

this is projection and lack of irl experience. some clever mental maneuvers ill give you that but none of it pans out realistically. guys that slay the most irl are tall big framed guys w high test phenos and medium+ bodyfat. what women like on ig isnt what makes their pussies wet when theyre ovulating.

 

[AsiaCel]

Lifefuel for lowmusclecels

 

[femalesentience]

sexy high e women want big framed high test masc brutes. refinement appeals to avg women

 

[JimJones]

Only reason to go to the gym is for a less fat face. That's it

 

[ArtoriasWolf]

Everyone knows that. Just have to look at models and you can see what the perfect gigachad is.

 

[RageAgainstTDL]

The more muscle I gain on steroids and the leaner I get the better I feel. If you talk to any good looking person honestly they will say one of the best things about being good looking is if they are feeling down they can just look in the mirror and feel better. Don't discount that.

It's important to have good muscle tone and low body fat. This is a relatively ideal body type but likely impossible to achieve without testosterone injections:

Being able to look in the mirror and see that will make anyone feel good about themselves.

I don't know what you'd call that. He is both musclemaxed and leanmaxed and that's what you need to be.

 

[RageAgainstTDL]

Lmao left pic is the genetic limit for top 10% of men bordering on juicy, look at those fucking delts and chest. Most natty men can never get that big and the ones who can have to workout regularly for at least 5+ years to achieve that. Basically, the guy on the left is huge for a natty and he definitely workouts hard and consistently.

Your post is maximum genetic natty potential vs roided animal.

Pic related is leanmaxxed, basically ottermode. Moderate muscle mass, very low body fat. Attainable natty, realistic.
Women don't really care about muscle, but some muscle helps if you're Chad. Low body fat is much more important. Having a wide neck is also much more important than chest, abs, arms. Also the wristpill is bullshit unless your wrists are 5", most of these guys have fairly small or average wrists.

It's really all about facial bones combined with low body fat percentage. Some muscle helps a little, but it's not necessary.
Also JFL at training your legs, fucking up your knees with hundreds of pounds of weight. No one but gymrats care about legs. Doing some light leg training is fine like pistol squats for example. No need for 400lbs+ squats.

Dude I don't think you or OP realize but those guys all have a massive amount of muscle. That's the absolute physical limit of how much muscle many men can even put on without steroids, and most of those guys on are on steroids to get to those physiques and low body fat.

 

[anon]

Dude I don't think you or OP realize but those guys all have a massive amount of muscle. That's the absolute physical limit of how much muscle many men can even put on without steroids, and most of those guys on are on steroids to get to those physiques and low body fat.

You're exaggerating. Most of the guys I posted are achievable natty. Are you sure you're replying to the right guy?

 

[RageAgainstTDL]

You're exaggerating. Most of the guys I posted are achievable natty.

For who and after how much time? People always say these ridiculous physiques "are achievable natty" but I have never met anyone who has done it and the people who say this have never done it themselves either.

Maybe theoretically if you have top genetics and perfect diet/exercise since 15 years old.

 

[anon]

For who and after how much time? People always say these ridiculous physiques "are achievable natty" but I have never met anyone who has done it and the people who say this have never done it themselves either.

Maybe theoretically if you have top genetics and perfect diet/exercise since 15 years old.

Look at the pics I posted again, here they are.

At least half of these are natty. Seriously, you're exaggerating. Most of the guys in these two photos have moderate muscle mass and very low body fat % giving them that lean ripped look. It makes their muscles look even bigger, they're just very lean. I still think you're replying to the wrong guy because these are not ridiculous physiques. All these guys are like 170-190lbs at best at around 5'11" + 6'2". Not ridiculous at all.
I'm not OP and yes OP is full of shit. That guy in OP's post is not natty.

 

[RageAgainstTDL]

Look at the pics I posted again, here they are.

View attachment 91078 View attachment 91079

At least half of these are natty. Seriously, you're exaggerating. Most of the guys in these two photos have moderate muscle mass and very low body fat % giving them that lean ripped look. It makes their muscles look even bigger. I still think you're replying to the wrong guy.
I'm not OP and yes OP is full of shit. That guy in OP's post is probably not natty and if he is that's top 1% natty.

I think absolutely none of those are likely natty except maybe the one slimmer guy holding the beer. They are all male models and steroid abuse is rampant in the male modeling industry just like Hollywood.

Sub 9% body fat with a good amount of muscle like that is extremely rare outside of elite athletes. Every guy I've known who goes to the gym natty for years looks like shit compared to those guys. They have fucking 8 packs.

 

[anon]

I think absolutely none of those are likely natty. They are all male models and steroid abuse is rampant in the male modeling industry just like Hollywood.

Sub 10% body fat with a good amount of muscle like that is extremely rare outside of elite athletes. Every guy I've known who goes to the gym natty for years looks like shit compared to those guys. They have fucking 8 packs.

It doesn't matter whether they're natty or not or if it's rare. They might be roiding and barely working out just to have some muscle. It's possible they're just lazy and workout once a week or maybe every other week and with roids get a decent physique like that, but they're not ridiculous physiques by any means.

Just because your average curry gymcel can't reach sub10% bf with some muscle mass doesn't mean everyone who has an ottermode or soccer body is roiding and even if they are that doesn't mean you can't achieve it natty.

The point is, these physiques are absolutely achievable natty. Most soccer players look like that and I guarantee you most of them don't take roids. You're actually delusional at this point, I'm sorry.

I have high body fat percentage right now, but decent muscle mass under all the fat and I've only been working out for maybe 8 months. I don't take roids. I can easily look like the guy in the middle in the second photo if I drop to 12% or lower body fat. We actually have an identical frame. Also none of those guys have 8 packs, 6 packs at best. Most of them have 4 packs.

You don't need roids to be soccer tier lean, you just need self control.

 

[RageAgainstTDL]

It doesn't matter whether they're natty or not or if it's rare. They might be roiding and barely working out just to have some muscle. It's possible they're just lazy and workout once a week or maybe every other week and with roids get a decent physique like that, but they're not ridiculous physiques by any means.

Just because your average curry can't reach sub10% bf with some muscle mass doesn't mean everyone who has an ottermode or soccer body is roiding and even if they are that doesn't mean you can't achieve it natty.

The point is, these physiques are absolutely achievable natty. Most soccer players look like that and I guarantee you most of them don't take roids. You're actually delusional at this point, I'm sorry.

Soccer players that look like that are PROFESSIONAL ATHLETES WHO WORK OUT FOR A LIVING. That is not a reasonable standard for what a normal man can achieve with natural diet and exercise. They also have TOP TIER GENETICS which is what allows them to become professional athletes in the first place. Like I said: "extremely rare outside of elite athletes."

Is it theoretically possible to get big with 7-8% body fat and a perfect 8 pack naturally? Sure if you have perfect genetics and/or perfect workout/diet for 5-10 years straight from your teens upward.

But that's not what most people have. Most natural guys look like this in the gym:

The odds of having an 8 pack with big shoulders and arms without steroids is extremely slim. There's some guys who have Auschwitz mode body fat even from 10 years old and have 8 packs while weight 100 lb but again that's just random genetic chance.

Most of what people use for a standard of "what is achievable naturally" are just moderate/lazy steroid users exactly like the male models you posted. Or Hollywood actors like Hugh Jackman who claim to be natty while looking like this:

 

[mrhaircut33]

Leanmaxxing pros over musclemaxxers
>shows more of your nonmalleable frame off because of your bones being vastly unchangeable, and so
>shows that you're not an insecure tryhard trying to overcompensate with masculinity, because you don't have the self worth to feel you're enough naturally. Where you have to cover up your natural frame with muscles.
>women are more about refinement than raw brute brawn these days. only baldies/ incels can play one card which is masculinemaxxing with muscles. Whereas femininity is about compartmentalizing your size to the bare bones (quite literally). Where it is feminine to be nimble/ but delicate. And the more delicate you go, the less space there is to hide.
>Women like the delicateness to be in men where there is less room for there to be change to your overall refinement.
>The less thin/ dainty you can go the less you can affect something and make it look right. The less places there are for geno-concealing.
>Women are into dainty guys because they have less room to appear artificial/ affected outside from what is deeply built in (genetics)

The more your form shows what is deep/ close to the core/ closecore based bodies, then the less room there is to hide/ the less area-space there is to cover yourself up, and the more delicate/ refined/ technique/detail based your way of living must be. Focusing less on big power strikes, and more on sophistication and agility when it comes to physical performance.

Funny thing is in most cases people can't fight in ways like video games, and women pick effeminate guys who would get rek'd in most situations irl, because there aren't martial arts that you could not be better at by being slender and elegant than being muscular/ athletic. But that's why lean muscles, and not bodybuilder muscles are ideal with technique/ speed based ability.

What if you're a framecel. Is it better to lift or not? Because your natural frame sucks. I want to lift just enough to where people can't tell that I workout. I just wanna look good in a shirt

 

[anon]

Soccer players that look like that are PROFESSIONAL ATHLETES WHO WORK OUT FOR A LIVING. That is not a reasonable standard for what a normal man can achieve with natural diet and exercise. They also have TOP TIER GENETICS which is what allows them to become professional athletes in the first place. Like I said: "extremely rare outside of elite athletes."

I knew you'd say this. You don't need to be a professional athlete to have 20lbs of extra muscle compared to your average joe and 10% body fat. How can you not understand this?

Is it theoretically possible to get big with 7-8% body fat and a perfect 8 pack naturally? Sure if you have perfect genetics and/or perfect workout/diet for 5-10 years straight from your teens upward.

I'm done arguing with you after this post because you're delusional and pissing me off. You keep mentioning fucking 8 packs, but none of the guys in my photos have an 8 pack and none of them are 7% body fat. All of them are at 8-12% and even if some of them are 7-8% so what? You can have 8% body fat and be natty, it's just not necessary.

But that's not what most people have. Most natural guys look like this in the gym:

Gyno, not 10-12% body fat, doesn't train his core and only does meme ss lifts. I look like that guy just fatter and I'm telling you I've only been lifting for 8-9 months. He has slightly bigger delts than me, but I have a bigger chest. I had a clear 4 pack when I was 13 and lean, all I did is play soccer and did some calisthenics at home. Do I have top tier genetics? No.

The odds of having an 8 pack with big shoulders and arms without steroids is extremely slim. There's some guys who have Auschwitz mode body fat even from 10 years old and have 8 packs while weight 100 lb but again that's just random genetic chance.

Some of the guys I posted have fairly big arms, but most of them have normal arms. I really don't understand what you're seeing in those photos.

Most of what people use for a standard of "what is achievable naturally" are just moderate/lazy steroid users exactly like the male models you posted.

You're just speculating. I doubt most of those guys in the photos use roids. I'm done arguing with you.

 

[RageAgainstTDL]

I had a clear 4 pack when I was 13 and lean, I also played soccer and did some calisthenics at home. Do I have top tier genetics?

Yes. That is by definition top tier body fat genetics. If you had abs at 13 years old, you are in the top 2-5% for naturally low body fat maintenance. Look at a group of regular 13 year olds in this modern world eg. at a public swimming pool and tell me how many have abs.

 

[anon]

Yes. That is by definition top tier body fat genetics. If you had abs at 13 years old, you are in the top 2-5% for naturally low body fat maintenance. Look at a group of regular 13 year olds in this modern world eg. at a public swimming pool and tell me how many have abs.

Maybe I have above average muscle genetics, but I'm not top tier. At 10% bf you should expect to see at least the top two abs if you train them, maybe even 4. 6 abs are visible at 8-10% for some people. I'm telling you I look like some of the guys I posted, just fatter. Once I cut down to 12% bf for summer I'll have an identical body to Nick Squintward.

the guy you posted is not that lean and his abs are untrained.

All you need is 15-20lbs more muscle than your average numale and sub12% body fat, optimally 8-10%. That's achievable natty and I don't give a shit what you think.

 

[RageAgainstTDL]

Maybe I have above average muscle genetics, but I'm not top tier. At 10% bf you should expect to see at least the top two abs if you train them. I'm telling you I look like some of the guys I posted, just fatter. Once I cut down to 12% bf for summer I'll have an identical body to Nick Squintward.

Yes but you just admitted you started out with far above average body fat genetics since I can guarantee you whenever I go to a public pool or water park I see pretty much zero 13 year old guys with abs. If you had abs just from being a 6th grader running around playing soccer, that's top tier body fat genetics. I have a cousin like that. He's had ripped abs since he was 8 years old. Now he's buff as fuck. No steroids necessary. Just top tier body fat genetics. He doesn't do anything special. He was just born that way.

 

[anon]

I can guarantee you whenever I go to a public pool or water park I see pretty much zero 13 year old guys with abs. If you had abs just from being a 6th grader running around playing soccer, that's top tier body fat genetics.

I worked out at home four times a week. Basic pushup progression, planks, pullups, some free weights so I wasn't just running around. I was playing real european football, tough 1-2 hours training sessions every 2-3 days, not american soccer mom tier trash.

You sound American because where I'm from almost every kid either plays soccer, handball, basketball or whatever. At school we also did pushups, squats, sprints and shit as part of PT all throughout my schooling years. Then again my country is at the top at sports per capita.

You're also obsessed with abs. I'm talking about physical size here, not ab definition. None of those guys have juicy physiques, end of discussion.

As for me, I was fit during early puberty, but let myself go at 15-17 can't remember. Ever since then I've been at 16-25%+ body fat. I have some muscle memory which explains why I already look fairly strong after only 8 months of training. I agree that working out and playing sports early on is important, but that's just kind of implied where I live.

I don't think I have top tier genetics where I live. Most kids my age looked kind of ripped and almost every normie I see is obviously a gym goer, does sports or whatever. Seriously, it seems like every young guy is leanmaxxed and "normie buff" where I am. It's normie culture here.

 

[Michael15651]

View attachment 90865

Brutal

Seriously though, glad this thread was established. I didn’t pay particular attention to how critical the difference is until now.

 

[RageAgainstTDL]

I worked out at home four times a week. Basic pushup progression, planks, pullups, some free weights so I wasn't just running around. I was playing real european football, tough 1-2 hours training sessions every 2-3 days, not american soccer mom tier trash.

You sound American because where I'm from almost every kid either plays soccer, handball, basketball or whatever. At school we also did pushups, squats, sprints and shit as part of PT all throughout my schooling years. Then again my country is at the top at sports per capita.

You're also obsessed with abs. I'm talking about physical size here, not ab definition. None of those guys have juicy physiques, end of discussion.

As for me, I was fit during early puberty, but let myself go at 15-17 can't remember. Ever since then I've been at 16-25%+ body fat. I have some muscle memory which explains why I already look fairly strong after only 8 months of training. I agree that working out and playing sports early on is important, but that's just kind of implied where I live.

I don't think I have top tier genetics where I live. Most kids my age looked kind of ripped and almost every normie I see is obviously a gym goer, does sports or whatever. Seriously, it seems like every young guy is leanmaxxed and "normie buff" where I am. It's normie culture here.

I don't know where that is but there are a few points:

- Some of this is also racial. Curry and Rice cels do not put on nearly as much muscle as white/blacks with the same effort and they maintain higher body fat as well by nature (especially curries who are the most skinnyfat race on earth).
- I am obsessed with abs because to get an 8 pack you need to be sub 9% body fat and that is extremely hard to do while maintaining muscle mass unless you are on roids or have the type of genetics I described for my cousin.
- When almost every Hollywood actor and male model has an 8 pack with strong muscle mass - what is more probable? That they are mostly doing steroids as is an open secret in both industries, or that they all have absolutely perfect diet/training/genes for years at a time?

In Hollywood, so many of these guys go from scrawny/fat to ripped in such a short period of time it's physically impossible. Yet people look at these male models and actors and say "that's achievable naturally." Well maybe it is for some people some of the time under the right circumstances. Theoretically. But realistically? There's a reason they're all injecting drugs.

The only two people I personally know who have had 8 packs are my two cousins who are brothers and both had abs since they were 8. Neither does anything special with diet or exercise. They were just born with low body fat genetics. That's rare. Everyone else either has to train like a pro for years and years or do drugs. Most people that succeed at getting that body do it with drugs.

 

[anon]

I don't know where that is but there are a few points:

- Some of this is also racial. Curry and Rice cels do not put on nearly as much muscle as white/blacks with the same effort and they maintain higher body fat as well by nature (especially curries who are the most skinnyfat race on earth).
- I am obsessed with abs because to get an 8 pack you need to be sub 9% body fat and that is extremely hard to do while maintaining muscle mass unless you are on roids or have the type of genetics I described for my cousin.
- When almost every Hollywood actor and male model has an 8 pack with strong muscle mass - what is more probable? That they are mostly doing steroids as is an open secret in both industries, or that they all have absolutely perfect diet/training/genes for years at a time?

In Hollywood, so many of these guys go from scrawny/fat to ripped in such a short period of time it's physically impossible. Yet people look at these male models and actors and say "that's achievable naturally." Well maybe it is for some people some of the time under the right circumstances. Theoretically. But realistically? There's a reason they're all injecting drugs.

The only two people I personally know who have had 8 packs are my two cousins who are brothers and both had abs since they were 8. Neither does anything special with diet or exercise. They were just born with low body fat genetics. That's rare. Everyone else either has to train like a pro for years and years or do drugs. Most people that succeed at getting that body do it with drugs.

I'm Croatian and not even white (brown eyes, hair.) It's true that certain races store more fat and it's more difficult for them to lose body fat, still possible though. 99% of curries and asians look fat/soft, many of them have bloated faces.

You're still going on about 8 packs. Again, only maybe one of the guys I posted has an 8 pack and it's very faint and the last 2 packs are tiny. The rest have 4 packs, some have 6.
I don't care about meme 8 packs, I'm fine with 6. Even 4 can look really good. Also, if you don't even have a 2 pack you're just not as lean as you think you are. Women don't care about that shit. It's all about the face anyway, body helps, but only if you're Chad. That Lachowski kid is a twig, but he has a very good face and it's all that matters.
"why lift weights when it's all about the face?"

 

[RageAgainstTDL]

Anyone who doesn't believe virtually everyone in the modeling, acting, and even many in the pro athlete world are using drugs, read this article:

https://www.howtobeast.com/steroids/

Or if you want it in pictures, tell me how many men can pull off this 1 year transformation naturally without heavy drugs:

Chris Hemsworth as Thor (before and after photo): in the photo, you see a side-by-side comparison of Hemsworth over a short 1 year period. He’s bigger and leaner… and we’re talking way, way bigger. Anyone who’s been a skinny guy and dedicated himself to bulking up, gaining weight, and getting big knows what 1 year of progress looks like. Hemsworth blows even the very best 1-2 year transformations I’ve ever seen out of the water. He looks like he put on 50 pounds of pure muscle, and experts agree that roughly 20 pounds is the body’s natural limit.

The worst thing about all the steroid use is that normal men see this shit and think "Ah Hemsworth isn't that big, I could be that big too if I just work out more" not accounting for the fact of how much drugs he used to get there. It's become totally normalized.

 

[Eugenicist]

Lmao left pic is the genetic limit for top 20% of men bordering on juicy, look at those fucking delts. Most natty men can never get that big and the ones who can have to workout regularly for at least 5+ years to achieve that. Basically, the guy on the left is huge for a natty and he definitely workouts hard and consistently.

Your post is maximum genetic natty potential vs roided animal.

Pic related is leanmaxxed, basically ottermode. Moderate muscle mass, very low body fat. Attainable natty, realistic.
Women don't really care about muscle, but some muscle helps if you're Chad. Low body fat is much more important. Having a wide neck is also much more important than chest, abs, arms.

I meant to say that after he has worked out it looks lean... for fuck's sake how can you all drill into a nitpick without recognizing your own numbness lol.

And I am talking more about the fact that being lean has to do with either muscle or muscle fat, but women prefer lean muscle overall.

 

[Sniffles]

I always kinda figured this was true

 

[FaceandHFD]

I always kinda figured this was true

Tbh muscled guys look trashy and low pedigree most of the time