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Discussion Why I think inceldom has a space in the public debate and why that is important to prevent extremism

Blackpincel

Blackpincel

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This post is targeted to normie lurkers of the website, as well to stimulate debate among the userbase about these thoughts.

I am what some would call "an oldcel", I have far more experience than most of the userbase, I am nearing my 30s and contrarily to most of the userbase my views are more neutral, and aren't ones of a 15yo edgelord, but I understand why most users behave like edgelords. More on that later.

Let's picture the following situation: a male loner, considered to be physically unattractive, either in his teens or adulthood is experiencing depression over his condition. He has few to no friends (of either sex), does not feel desirable as either as a friend or as a sexual partner, people assume his entire personality by his physiognomy (assuming his social circles in virtue of how his physical appearance stands out among the average) which can be a HUGE limiting factor, never gets approached by people in real life to start a nice conversation for that fact (people assume by, again, his physiognomy that this would be a waste of time ) except when being asked for help/favors, or when taking proactivity in approaching people himself, people avoid instigating further conversation with him because they feel adding that man to their social circle would not represent a benefit for themselves.
This man thinks: "oh well, I need to get help". And then goes to a therapist that everything bad happening around him is his fault and his fault only, that he needs to "work on himself", that not socializing with shallow people is a "good riddance", that he needs to repress his sexual desires or simply hire escorts (something that is straight illegal or grey area in most countries), that he needs to find men with similar interests to socialize with and "get some experience etc".
Said man takes that advice, and starts working out, frequenting places where he can hang out with similar-minded peers etc. He also lands on a good and stable job that pays well.
The problems are:
1 - His loneliness was not fulfilled. His desires to find a partner to share intimate times with, satisfy his (biological) sexual urges, dreams of building a family and becoming a welcome member in society, and to feel better and successful about himself, are all being denied to him. He still feels empty and incomplete both as a man and a human being. Prostitution does not cut it. Most sex workers have terrible work ethics, as well as providing a terrible "service" to clients they don't feel any connection to.
2 - Whenever the topic of women, sex and family is brought up by his male peers, he is never invited to join such topics, as people assume by his physical appearance/phenotype he is not considered attractive by women, so he is either not in a relationship or is not very experienced in the subject, so he gets excluded from that conversation.
3 - Women still do not consider him to be physically attractive, do not accept his flirtatious approaches (even well intended ones) nor they approach him. Even though he could be in a good shape, in a slender condition, maybe even with an athletic physique and toned body, sometimes with extreme goals (roids), this is not enough to provide him an opening with the women he feels sexually attracted to. Getting fit does not magically improve his facial aesthetics nor height, and his "average status" financially-wise is not enough to attract the average women he is into. Following PUA scams obviously did not seem to work either, as he could not even get an opening to say cheesy pick up lines, as women were immediately averse to him and any possible advances he made towards them. They rejected him on the spot.

So this man thinks: "What the fuck is going on?". "Why am I not being properly rewarded for my efforts?". "What else should I do? Should I pay dozens of thousands of dollars in surgeries and roids? Should I give all my blood and sweat and get rich just to be able to get an opening and access women I feel attracted to? Should I desperately attempt to to chase women severely below my league in every single regard that did not do in life 1/1000 of all my efforts, while men that did not do any I did at all have access to them effortlessly just because they were born with a better flesh arrangement?"

Naturally, a man in this condition feels depressed, angry and suicidal despite all of the "developments". He gets bitter. He is told to lower his standards, by his therapist, or to completely forget women. They want him to forget it all about his dreams. They shatter his expectations, they suddenly reveal that meritocracy is a myth, and it becomes apparent that success is decided as a birthright. He is then get told that he needs to "work more" (?), to death, perhaps. But at this point, he loses all of his will to attempt anything further, since not a single of the expected reward was given to him. He already worked hard, and expected any reward. He got none instead, and is still get told that he needs to work "harder". How is he supposed to keep going since there is no incentive in sight or anything that gives a clue that he might be heading for success, finding sex, love and a fulfilling life?

Now, let's go back to the "bitterness" part of the story I told above. Let's say a man like that reaches a breaking point in life. He either wants to end it all, or feel society wronged him and becomes angry and hateful.

Remember when I mentioned incel edgelords? The guys the say, in this very board, "go ER", "it's ovER","look for anothER solution", in allusion to Elliot Rodger and massacres, or "kill all normies... In Minecraft/GTA/whatever". Once again, more on that later.

The lonely man wants to feel noted, for once, in his life. Or he feels empathy for people who might be in similar situation as him. Or he wants to feel powerful, for once, in his life. So he decided to take one of the two extreme actions:

1 - He writes a suicide letter in social media, then jumps off a building in an area crowded by people, where his smashed body will obviously cause quite an impression. Some coworkers/classmates or whatever will take notice of him, think the whole thing is sad and all, they would be virtue signalling by saying "I could have helped him if he asked" (spoiler: they would not), maybe a few closest family members will mourn him. Maybe his death would be a small footnote in his city's newspaper footnote. People would talk about it AT MOST for a week. And that's it. Another one bites the dust, or in this case, the ground in high speed (lol).

Or:

2 - He writes a 200-page manifesto on how society wronged him, on how life is unfair, how people must pay for their evil, and blah blah blah, brings lethal fire-weapons to an specific crowded site and sprays bullets in people in brutal fashion attempting to get a high body count, and in the end, either commits suicide or is caught and arrested by the local police. He becomes the spotlight in local news, gets more attention than he ever got in his whole life for such an heinous crime, gets his inceldom condition and life background discussed all over the news, the families of the victims grieve, accuse certain institutions of failing to stop the shooter the monstrous man he became, gets people in general to talk about male loners/incels and "how to stop them/prevent further things for happening"


Which one of the two do you think attracts the most media attention towards the "lonely male" discussion? Which one do you think the large media conglomerates that love violence and sensationalist spectacles would like to cover best for views?

I strongly have the impression that many edgelord incels do not have bloodshed as the goal: they crave for attention, fantasies of power, or expectations that society feels forced to discuss the issues they face. The fantasies for revenge are merely tools to achieve a goal.

My conclusion is that, by not discussing the matter of male loneliness and how to help men upfront without generic advices, by not acknowledging that female hypergamy is real, the large media, social justice NGOs, and "three-letter agencies", are actually enabling edgy mindset and power fantasies. And internet censorship might further radicalize those individuals as they would have nowhere else to vent their frustrations or community hugboxes that could work as a coping mechanism.


Here are my proposals:

1 - STOP using female depression as a metric for male depression:

This Twitter/X thread by Adam Lane Smith sums it up perfectly:


View: https://twitter.com/TheBrometheus/status/1676925337194704897


Especially the points:
- Male depression and female depression often present very differently, and they also tend to heal differently. But most therapy modalities are really only geared to help women recover. Many can actually make men more depressed.
- Men need to feel powerful to be mentally and emotionally healthy. Powerless men feel broken and afraid. Emasculated. To help a man feel better, you must help him feel powerful.
- The male suicide rate is not about wanting to die. It’s about feeling powerless, hopeless, and helpless for way too long. To fix it, we have to make life more appealing than the peace of death. We have to give men power over their lives.
- Male depression is nearly always a result of learned helplessness, but health providers treat it like female depression and try to make men feel loved instead of powerful.
-Most depressed men probably don't need medication. Even then ones who do need it need more than just medication. Depressed men need purpose, a mission, and the power to accomplish that mission.Give a man those 3 things and he can crawl over broken glass with a smile.
- Most women are disgusted when they finally learn how the male sex drive works. Then they test to see if it's true, and when it is, they start to like the new power they hold.
- Most men today can't imagine a space just for men. Every space that was originally for men has been taken over for women seeking attention or somewhere to hang out. And when women invade more spaces that men inhabit, modern men are programmed to withdraw without complaining.
- More women hold college degrees than men and are unlikely to date down in earning potential. This is leading to immense frustration in women who climb the social ladder and then compete for a dwindling population of men. Hardly anyone one is talking about this dating disaster.


2 - People and the large media should start acknowledging average women have a large (and "unfair") advantage over average men in dating:

I mean, it's everywhere now. There is overwhelming data that women nowadays tend to proactively exclusively chase men noticeably above their league in terms of perceived sexual value in physical appearance and in status. There is also hard data that average women have far more sex parners in a short lifespan than most men will have will have during their entire lives. You can find several references online, including academic ones, concluding these facts. Surveys, data from dating services, makes the whole argument and ordeal undeniable.

You can find some references on the incel wiki:


To get thinks worse, most of the social media is focused on pictures/videos these days, so there is a great emphasis in physical appearance, and women are the number 1 consumers of such media, so they now give a great deal of importance in looks, and on top of that they have a wide array of options since the popularization of the internet as a medium earlier this century because they have access to a never possible before amount of potential male partners, so they shallowly pick the best looking ones of the bunch as they have many options. Women back in the day used to find partners in their local parties or within their school or work environment, now they can have connections with men all around the world.

People need to stop thinking the female dating experience is similar to the male dating experience. It is not. Also, many women use their personal experience with male good looking friends as a parameter of male success in dating, but the fact is, these men are the absolute exception, and not the rule. The average man also have to work way harder than a woman to get sex partners, while a woman just need to vent their desires for companionship and they will instantly have candidates available.

3 - There should be a public debate on how to deal with the issue of male loneliness:

I strongly believe that if prostitution was not a taboo or straight illegal topic in most regions aroung the world, most of the concerns about male loneliness in those places would be non-issues. We need to abandon laws based on religious puritanism from centuries ago to provide better professional conditions to both sex workers and clients alike of such services. Men need to be able to offer women money for sex freely if the act itself is of noncoercive nature. This is not exploitative as accepting such offer or not is still a woman's decision, and they will be rewarded for it. In most countries nowadays, if you post an advertisement somewhere "I will pay $100 an hour for any blonde bimbo-type woman to have sex with me" you will be arrested for it, but this is not fair as this is a consesual agreement between two consenting adults. This needs to be reviewed, and many women would love to have that easy money and keep the low profile as they would not want to have prostitution as an official profession. So this would work to the great benefit of women themselves.

Also, people need to look for alternatives instead of simply demonizing lonely men for craving sex and companionship and start working with them instead of against them. Like I said before, simply suggesting therapy won't cut it; what works for women in therapy will not work for men. Most men don't need validation. They need to feel powerful, they need to feel they are in charge of their lives, they need to feel capable. They need to feel their dreams can be achieved, even with some (small, and not severe) concessions. And that includes sex, companionship, and starting a family. Which is getting incredibly difficult by the day for reasons beyond the control and power of men. Incel men are taxpayers too, and currently there is zero elements in most places pandering to them in any level.

Censorship is not the solution. Deplatforming incels, and making incels "shutting the fuck up" about their frustations with women and their feeling of loneliness, then doing absolutely nothing to address this, is not going to stop men from having bad ideas, in fact, it is going to make them further bitter and hateful as like I said before, there is no "pandering" to them and society in no way sees them as victimized or oppressed people. This is an incredibly bad time in history where those issues overlap with female pandering and feminist agenda by the strong far-left propaganda this century, maybe it wouldn't be such an issue if the thing going on was just the hypergamy, but what we have is the feminism plus hypergamy combo.
I personally do not seek to "depower" women. I seek for more freedom for men to fulfill their needs. I hope someday someone will put a thought to this, either men or women in power.
 
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Jesus I don't wish to read all this, TLDR anyone?
 
Jesus I don't wish to read all this, TLDR anyone?
it’s a water is wet thread.

yeah man incels post edgy bitter stuff for attention and talk about ER so they have power for once in their lives.

the feeling that you have 0 ability to change anything in your life, and the lack of power over anything eats away at your mind.

this is why most people here behave the way they do. unless they act in an extreme way no one notices or cares about them. its fake sanctimonious shit from others if they act positively or it is a lack of acknowledgement at all.
 
Dnr lets blow up everything in gta5
 
There is overwhelming data that women nowadays tend to proactively exclusively chase men noticeably above their league in terms of perceived sexual value in physical appearance and in status.
The problem with this is even if the blackpill becomes truly mainstream and all of society is telling women "if you mindless follow your vagina tingles while young you're going to die either alone or unsatisfied". Almost by necessity, they can't truly understand this until it's too late. Dating Melvin or Elliot literally doesn't cross their mind. And if something happens that does force the idea into their head, all can feel is disgust and you can't expect people to willingly enter a relationship based on disgust.

Literally the only real solution on a civilizational level is tight fisted patriarchal control over women. As long as women have the freedom to choose, they WILL choose badly.
Just as like how when given the choice between videogames and war most men will choose videogames even if war is necessary ( that said, men can and will be forced by gunpoint so it doesn't matter what men prefer, unlike with women ).
 
I genuinely think you are right, but this is way too high effort for a world that doesn't give a shit about men, m8.

It's a world that is shooting towards female supremacy. It sounds absurd, but it's 100% true.

Accountability is not a female virtue, in these times.

And no one cares about "unfuckable" men. Any solution you may have, is again, pointless.
 
This post is targeted to normie lurkers of the website, as well to stimulate debate among the userbase about these thoughts.

I am what some would call "an oldcel", I have far more experience than most of the userbase, I am nearing my 30s and contrarily to most of the userbase my views are more neutral, and aren't ones of a 15yo edgelord, but I understand why most users behave like edgelords. More on that later.

Let's picture the following situation: a male loner, considered to be physically unattractive, either in his teens or adulthood is experiencing depression over his condition. He has few to no friends (of either sex), does not feel desirable as either as a friend or as a sexual partner, people assume his entire personality by his physiognomy (assuming his social circles in virtue of how his physical appearance stands out among the average) which can be a HUGE limiting factor, never gets approached by people in real life to start a nice conversation for that fact (people assume by, again, his physiognomy that this would be a waste of time ) except when being asked for help/favors, or when taking proactivity in approaching people himself, people avoid instigating further conversation with him because they feel adding that man to their social circle would not represent a benefit for themselves.
This man thinks: "oh well, I need to get help". And then goes to a therapist that everything bad happening around him is his fault and his fault only, that he needs to "work on himself", that not socializing with shallow people is a "good riddance", that he needs to repress his sexual desires or simply hire escorts (something that is straight illegal or grey area in most countries), that he needs to find men with similar interests to socialize with and "get some experience etc".
Said man takes that advice, and starts working out, frequenting places where he can hang out with similar-minded peers etc. He also lands on a good and stable job that pays well.
The problems are:
1 - His loneliness was not fulfilled. His desires to find a partner to share intimate times with, satisfy his (biological) sexual urges, dreams of building a family and becoming a welcome member in society, and to feel better and successful about himself, are all being denied to him. He still feels empty and incomplete both as a man and a human being. Prostitution does not cut it. Most sex workers have terrible work ethics, as well as providing a terrible "service" to clients they don't feel any connection to.
2 - Whenever the topic of women, sex and family is brought up by his male peers, he is never invited to join such topics, as people assume by his physical appearance/phenotype he is not considered attractive by women, so he is either not in a relationship or is not very experienced in the subject, so he gets excluded from that conversation.
3 - Women still do not consider him to be physically attractive, do not accept his flirtatious approaches (even well intended ones) nor they approach him. Even though he could be in a good shape, in a slender condition, maybe even with an athletic physique and toned body, sometimes with extreme goals (roids), this is not enough to provide him an opening with the women he feels sexually attracted to. Getting fit does not magically improve his facial aesthetics nor height, and his "average status" financially-wise is not enough to attract the average women he is into. Following PUA scams obviously did not seem to work either, as he could not even get an opening to say cheesy pick up lines, as women were immediately averse to him and any possible advances he made towards them. They rejected him on the spot.

So this man thinks: "What the fuck is going on?". "Why am I not being properly rewarded for my efforts?". "What else should I do? Should I pay dozens of thousands of dollars in surgeries and roids? Should I give all my blood and sweat and get rich just to be able to get an opening and access women I feel attracted to? Should I desperately attempt to to chase women severely below my league in every single regard that did not do in life 1/1000 of all my efforts, while men that did not do any I did at all have access to them effortlessly just because they were born with a better flesh arrangement?"

Naturally, a man in this condition feels depressed, angry and suicidal despite all of the "developments". He gets bitter. He is told to lower his standards, by his therapist, or to completely forget women. They want him to forget it all about his dreams. They shatter his expectations, they suddenly reveal that meritocracy is a myth, and it becomes apparent that success is decided as a birthright. He is then get told that he needs to "work more" (?), to death, perhaps. But at this point, he loses all of his will to attempt anything further, since not a single of the expected reward was given to him. He already worked hard, and expected any reward. He got none instead, and is still get told that he needs to work "harder". How is he supposed to keep going since there is no incentive in sight or anything that gives a clue that he might be heading for success, finding sex, love and a fulfilling life?

Now, let's go back to the "bitterness" part of the story I told above. Let's say a man like that reaches a breaking point in life. He either wants to end it all, or feel society wronged him and becomes angry and hateful.

Remember when I mentioned incel edgelords? The guys the say, in this very board, "go ER", "it's ovER","look for anothER solution", in allusion to Elliot Rodger and massacres, or "kill all normies... In Minecraft/GTA/whatever". Once again, more on that later.

The lonely man wants to feel noted, for once, in his life. Or he feels empathy for people who might be in similar situation as him. Or he wants to feel powerful, for once, in his life. So he decided to take one of the two extreme actions:

1 - He writes a suicide letter in social media, then jumps off a building in an area crowded by people, where his smashed body will obviously cause quite an impression. Some coworkers/classmates or whatever will take notice of him, think the whole thing is sad and all, they would be virtue signalling by saying "I could have helped him if he asked" (spoiler: they would not), maybe a few closest family members will mourn him. Maybe his death would be a small footnote in his city's newspaper footnote. People would talk about it AT MOST for a week. And that's it. Another one bites the dust, or in this case, the ground in high speed (lol).

Or:

2 - He writes a 200-page manifesto on how society wronged him, on how life is unfair, how people must pay for their evil, and blah blah blah, brings lethal fire-weapons to an specific crowded site and sprays bullets in people in brutal fashion attempting to get a high body count, and in the end, either commits suicide or is caught and arrested by the local police. He becomes the spotlight in local news, gets more attention than he ever got in his whole life for such an heinous crime, gets his inceldom condition and life background discussed all over the news, the families of the victims grieve, accuse certain institutions of failing to stop the shooter the monstrous man he became, gets people in general to talk about male loners/incels and "how to stop them/prevent further things for happening"


Which one of the two do you think attracts the most media attention towards the "lonely male" discussion? Which one do you think the large media conglomerates that love violence and sensationalist spectacles would like to cover best for views?

I strongly have the impression that many edgelord incels do not have bloodshed as the goal: they crave for attention, fantasies of power, or expectations that society feels forced to discuss the issues they face. The fantasies for revenge are merely tools to achieve a goal.

My conclusion is that, by not discussing the matter of male loneliness and how to help men upfront without generic advices, by not acknowledging that female hypergamy is real, the large media, social justice NGOs, and "three-letter agencies", are actually enabling edgy mindset and power fantasies. And internet censorship might further radicalize those individuals as they would have nowhere else to vent their frustrations or community hugboxes that could work as a coping mechanism.


Here are my proposals:

1 - STOP using female depression as a metric for male depression:

This Twitter/X thread by Adam Lane Smith sums it up perfectly:


View: https://twitter.com/TheBrometheus/status/1676925337194704897


Especially the points:
- Male depression and female depression often present very differently, and they also tend to heal differently. But most therapy modalities are really only geared to help women recover. Many can actually make men more depressed.
- Men need to feel powerful to be mentally and emotionally healthy. Powerless men feel broken and afraid. Emasculated. To help a man feel better, you must help him feel powerful.
- The male suicide rate is not about wanting to die. It’s about feeling powerless, hopeless, and helpless for way too long. To fix it, we have to make life more appealing than the peace of death. We have to give men power over their lives.
- Male depression is nearly always a result of learned helplessness, but health providers treat it like female depression and try to make men feel loved instead of powerful.
-Most depressed men probably don't need medication. Even then ones who do need it need more than just medication. Depressed men need purpose, a mission, and the power to accomplish that mission.Give a man those 3 things and he can crawl over broken glass with a smile.
- Most women are disgusted when they finally learn how the male sex drive works. Then they test to see if it's true, and when it is, they start to like the new power they hold.
- Most men today can't imagine a space just for men. Every space that was originally for men has been taken over for women seeking attention or somewhere to hang out. And when women invade more spaces that men inhabit, modern men are programmed to withdraw without complaining.
- More women hold college degrees than men and are unlikely to date down in earning potential. This is leading to immense frustration in women who climb the social ladder and then compete for a dwindling population of men. Hardly anyone one is talking about this dating disaster.


2 - People and the large media should start acknowledging average women have a large (and "unfair") advantage over average men in dating:

I mean, it's everywhere now. There is overwhelming data that women nowadays tend to proactively exclusively chase men noticeably above their league in terms of perceived sexual value in physical appearance and in status. There is also hard data that average women have far more sex parners in a short lifespan than most men will have will have during their entire lives. You can find several references online, including academic ones, concluding these facts. Surveys, data from dating services, makes the whole argument and ordeal undeniable.

You can find some references on the incel wiki:


To get thinks worse, most of the social media is focused on pictures/videos these days, so there is a great emphasis in physical appearance, and women are the number 1 consumers of such media, so they now give a great deal of importance in looks, and on top of that they have a wide array of options since the popularization of the internet as a medium earlier this century because they have access to a never possible before amount of potential male partners, so they shallowly pick the best looking ones of the bunch as they have many options. Women back in the day used to find partners in their local parties or within their school or work environment, now they can have connections with men all around the world.

People need to stop thinking the female dating experience is similar to the male dating experience. It is not. Also, many women use their personal experience with male good looking friends as a parameter of male success in dating, but the fact is, these men are the absolute exception, and not the rule. The average man also have to work way harder than a woman to get sex partners, while a woman just need to vent their desires for companionship and they will instantly have candidates available.

3 - There should be a public debate on how to deal with the issue of male loneliness:

I strongly believe that if prostitution was not a taboo or straight illegal topic in most regions aroung the world, most of the concerns about male loneliness in those places would be non-issues. We need to abandon laws based on religious puritanism from centuries ago to provide better professional conditions to both sex workers and clients alike of such services. Men need to be able to offer women money for sex freely if the act itself is of noncoercive nature. This is not exploitative as accepting such offer or not is still a woman's decision, and they will be rewarded for it. In most countries nowadays, if you post an advertisement somewhere "I will pay $100 an hour for any blonde bimbo-type woman to have sex with me" you will be arrested for it, but this is not fair as this is a consesual agreement between two consenting adults. This needs to be reviewed, and many women would love to have that easy money and keep the low profile as they would not want to have prostitution as an official profession. So this would work to the great benefit of women themselves.

Also, people need to look for alternatives instead of simply demonizing lonely men for craving sex and companionship and start working with them instead of against them. Like I said before, simply suggesting therapy won't cut it; what works for women in therapy will not work for men. Most men don't need validation. They need to feel powerful, they need to feel they are in charge of their lives, they need to feel capable. They need to feel their dreams can be achieved, even with some (small, and not severe) concessions. And that includes sex, companionship, and starting a family. Which is getting incredibly difficult by the day for reasons beyond the control and power of men. Incel men are taxpayers too, and currently there is zero elements in most places pandering to them in any level.

Censorship is not the solution. Deplatforming incels, and making incels "shutting the fuck up" about their frustations with women and their feeling of loneliness, then doing absolutely nothing to address this, is not going to stop men from having bad ideas, in fact, it is going to make them further bitter and hateful as like I said before, there is no "pandering" to them and society in no way sees them as victimized or oppressed people. This is an incredibly bad time in history where those issues overlap with female pandering and feminist agenda by the strong far-left propaganda this century, maybe it wouldn't be such an issue if the thing going on was just the hypergamy, but what we have is the feminism plus hypergamy combo.
I personally do not seek to "depower" women. I seek for more freedom for men to fulfill their needs. I hope someday someone will put a thought to this, either men or women in power.


Think this post would be better on reddit. It's soft and restraint enough to fit on there and maybe convince someone of something.

I don't think this type of argument is gonna get you anywhere though. Reason being that the people that are against us really hate us and demonize us mindlessly, they won't ever be on your side for even a second.
The people that are normal and empathetic enough to maybe be convinced to see things from our perspectve are too timid, too spineless, too reasonable to stand up to the raving ideologues.
They, just like you, might try asking these people nicely and with lots of careful and politically correct reasoning to maybe accept just a little compromise, pretty please :feelsaww:.

But our opposition has never responded to that. They simply keep going, they aggressively shame anyone who thinks to side with us and create some new mentally ill propaganda or warped logic as a counter to your arguments. And then that counter becomes the new dogma. They only react to power, not to pleas for mercy.

I believe we should try and and all strategies to reach more minds, try to meassure what works best and do more of that. From what I have seen, this type of soft appeal to reason and the human decency of the regular person has pretty much never convinced anyone not already on our side. But I have no strong evidence, and more is better, so sure, try it out and see what the reaction is.



One thing I strongly dislike is that even on here many people seem to think that these feminists and academics are not malevolent, but just making an honest mistake. While in reality these people have internalized a world view which paints us as the villain in any and all circumstances. They are like fish in water, the idea that it could be any different is not even on their radar.

As a concrete example: Someone I argued with on reddit recently was convinced that the reason men are having such a hard time right now is.... the patriachy. "As feminist scholars have realized much earlier, men and boys also suffer under patriarchal rule Blablabla". Basically, men have it so bad because the patriarchy forces them to be super manly, an impossible standart that is making them miserable and lonely.

You will not induce a sane way of thinking into these people, no matter what you try. They are way too deep, they aren't coming back. And they actively hate us, this is no mistake, they see us as enemies and in their eyes our crimes justify any means.

Sadists and bullies self-select into their ranks because they are looking for targets they can hurt without having to be afraid of society punishing them for it. That is a significant portion of the people you are dealing with, the kind that wants to hurt but plays the political game so they can hide behind some unfalsifiable ideological excuse.
 
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I genuinely think you are right, but this is way too high effort for a world that doesn't give a shit about men, m8.

It's a world that is shooting towards female supremacy. It sounds absurd, but it's 100% true.

Accountability is not a female virtue, in these times.

And no one cares about "unfuckable" men. Any solution you may have, is again, pointless.
SJWs and women may like it or not, but men are still the backbone of society. Most of the hard work go through men. Most politicians are men. Most high-risk jobs are male-dominated jobs. The wealthiest people, and self-made rich people specially, are mostly men. Men (probably) pay more taxes, while women are the ones that makes the most use of them (taxes), especially in countries where welfare is present and single mothers are common in the lower class / poorest people.

I might be coping hard, but the second the majority of the male population experience misery in their lives just in benefit of women, I don't think they will be OK with this especially when there is absolutely no reward or anything to gain with it. I don't believe in a "beta uprising" of sorts as probably most of the men in power (the top men) will be unaffected by the whole ordeal, but if the women pandering hits an alarming rate, I am afraid that those in power will have to make a few concessions to men if they still want to keep that power, as like I said, men are still the backbone of society. If men give up society, it collapses.

If all men became blackpilled overnight, any male politician pandering to women at any level would instantly lose voters, and a government made by women for women is a sure way to collapse altoghether, as like I said, men are still the ones that do the heavy lifting across all classes. And these are facts even the most hardcore feminists will have a hard time denying.

The problem with this is even if the blackpill becomes truly mainstream and all of society is telling women "if you mindless follow your vagina tingles while young you're going to die either alone or unsatisfied". Almost by necessity, they can't truly understand this until it's too late. Dating Melvin or Elliot literally doesn't cross their mind. And if something happens that does force the idea into their head, all can feel is disgust and you can't expect people to willingly enter a relationship based on disgust.

Literally the only real solution on a civilizational level is tight fisted patriarchal control over women. As long as women have the freedom to choose, they WILL choose badly.
Just as like how when given the choice between videogames and war most men will choose videogames even if war is necessary ( that said, men can and will be forced by gunpoint so it doesn't matter what men prefer, unlike with women ).
Industrialized capitalism itself demanded patriarchy (in the traditional sense) to end, and it is not ever going back unless some apocalyptic scenario happens and people are forced back to living primitively.

Was about to agree with him until he said this shit View attachment 845915
Well, he is not wrong. For some women, having a success at dating = dating only the 10/10 greek gods chads they like, AND making them commit to them, which rarely ever happens for obvious reasons.
 
Think this post would be better on reddit. It's soft and restraint enough to fit on there and maybe convince someone of something.

I don't think this type of argument is gonna get you anywhere though. Reason being that the people that are against us really hate us and demonize us mindlessly, they won't ever be on your side for even a second.
The people that are normal and empathetic enough to maybe be convinced to see things from our perspectve are too timid, too spineless, too reasonable to stand up to the raving ideologues.
They, just like you, might try asking these people nicely and with lots of careful and politically correct reasoning to maybe accept just a little compromise, pretty please :feelsaww:.

But our opposition has never responded to that. They simply keep going, they aggressively shame anyone who thinks to side with us and create some new mentally ill propaganda or warped logic as a counter to your arguments. And then that counter becomes the new dogma. They only react to power, not to pleas for mercy.

I believe we should try and and all strategies to reach more minds, try to meassure what works best and do more of that. From what I have seen, this type of soft appeal to reason and the human decency of the regular person has pretty much never convinced anyone not already on our side. But I have no strong evidence, and more is better, so sure, try it out and see what the reaction is.



One thing I strongly dislike is that even on here many people seem to think that these feminists and academics are not malevolent, but just making an honest mistake. While in reality these people have internalized a world view which paints us as the villain in any and all circumstances. They are like fish in water, the idea that it could be any different is not even on their radar.

As a concrete example: Someone I argued with on reddit recently was convinced that the reason men are having such a hard time right now is.... the patriachy. "As feminist scholars have realized much earlier, men and boys also suffer under patriarchal rule Blablabla". Basically, men have it so bad because the patriarchy forces them to be super manly, an impossible standart that is making them miserable and lonely.

You will not induce a sane way of thinking into these people, no matter what you try. They are way too deep, they aren't coming back. And they actively hate us, this is no mistake, they see us as enemies and in their eyes our crimes justify any means.

Sadists and bullies self-select into their ranks because they are looking for targets they can hurt without having to be afraid of society punishing them for it. That is a significant portion of the people you are dealing with, the kind that wants to hurt but plays the political game so they can hide behind some unfalsifiable ideological excuse.
Those (perhaps meaningless) efforts should be targeted at at people that in some point in their lives might experience some minimal change of heart for some kind of shock or heartbreak.
Most of the soyest naive SJW men, as long as their are straight+cisgender+heterosexual, might experience a change of heart eventually the first time he experiences misery with the opposite sex that greatly becomes ingrained with them. I was a bluepilled cuck once that actually believed that women cared about personality and all I had to do was to approach them and do "nice guyisms", which of course never worked and never will.
And who knows, maybe even some of the sluttiest batshit crazy feminist women might regret some of their beliefs and actions after some time, regretting they did not give some beta male a chance when he was single and now he is a multimillionaire father of 2, while she was riding the cock caroussel with chads and lowlifes. This is the kind of "patriarchy" most women would not mind at all.

And yes, you are correct. Most academics, "investigative journalists" and even Feds (intelligence agencies) are politically biased people who seek nothing but to validate political beliefs and silence any kind of opposition that represent any serious threat to their political conformity and narrative. The mere existence of desperate lonely sexless men, with documented and evidenced data on female advantage in dating, marriage and social privileges, absolutely destroy their feminist narrative that women are oppressed and subservient to a patriarchal society. Like Oscar Wilde once said: "Everything in the world is about sex, except sex. Sex is about power". And women have the most sex, so they have the most power. So this nullifies the entire pandering to women and feminism, as this gives evidence that women are already powerful, politically and also in social dynamics. I greatly suspect this massive pandering to feminism is justified by the fact that the majority of voters in most countries are females (you also have to take into account that women outlive men) , so politicians pander to that demographic, as well as the fact these politicians bureaucrats are always finding a way to collect more taxes, and more welfare programs (especially those targeting at women and "matriarchal families") are means to collect those taxes. Not to mention there might be economical reasons as to why capitalist private megacorporations are pandering to them as well, but I have not studied enough on the matter to provide an opinion. But I will chose to not dive into "Blackrock" conspiracies at this time =)
 
SJWs and women may like it or not, but men are still the backbone of society. Most of the hard work go through men. Most politicians are men. Most high-risk jobs are male-dominated jobs. The wealthiest people, and self-made rich people specially, are mostly men. Men (probably) pay more taxes, while women are the ones that makes the most use of them (taxes), especially in countries where welfare is present and single mothers are common in the lower class / poorest people.

I might be coping hard, but the second the majority of the male population experience misery in their lives just in benefit of women, I don't think they will be OK with this especially when there is absolutely no reward or anything to gain with it. I don't believe in a "beta uprising" of sorts as probably most of the men in power (the top men) will be unaffected by the whole ordeal, but if the women pandering hits an alarming rate, I am afraid that those in power will have to make a few concessions to men if they still want to keep that power, as like I said, men are still the backbone of society. If men give up society, it collapses.

If all men became blackpilled overnight, any male politician pandering to women at any level would instantly lose voters, and a government made by women for women is a sure way to collapse altoghether, as like I said, men are still the ones that do the heavy lifting across all classes. And these are facts even the most hardcore feminists will have a hard time denying.


Industrialized capitalism itself demanded patriarchy (in the traditional sense) to end, and it is not ever going back unless some apocalyptic scenario happens and people are forced back to living primitively.


Well, he is not wrong. For some women, having a success at dating = dating only the 10/10 greek gods chads they like, AND making them commit to them, which rarely ever happens for obvious reasons.
Again, you are absolutely correct. Is just not something people care about as much as you do. There are a lot of men that do, but since this problem involves women, we need them to care about it too.
And that is dead on arrival, because women give -1 fucks about what struggling men are feeling or going through.

Which is why many users here, including myself, fall back to this ironic venting edgelord stuff.

People here are tired, and they don't care about an world that doesn't care about them. Besides people like you, who genuinely want to be practical, and reach a better goal for everyone. Which I greatly appreciate, but again, it REALLY does not matter for Twitter, TikTok, IncelTears, the lurking normies here, so on...
 
Again, you are absolutely correct. Is just not something people care about as much as you do. There are a lot of men that do, but since this problem involves women, we need them to care about it too.
And that is dead on arrival, because women give -1 fucks about what struggling men are feeling or going through.

Which is why many users here, including myself, fall back to this ironic venting edgelord stuff.

People here are tired, and they don't care about an world that doesn't care about them. Besides people like you, who genuinely want to be practical, and reach a better goal for everyone. Which I greatly appreciate, but again, it REALLY does not matter for Twitter, TikTok, IncelTears, the lurking normies here, so on...
I think that divorce rates and male sexlessness are definetly two types of data to keep tabs on.

If "normal" men get absolutely nothing fruitful to look after or strive for in their lives, while a minority of men, and the majority of women have everything, together with the traditional family structure being in shackles, birth rates lowering (despite women and the top men having as much sex as before, abortions and contraceptive methods are a thing) will absolutely mark the collapse of the society over this extreme imbalance.

Social media pretty much broke the natural laws, and it will be incredibly difficult to restore the balance that once existed. People were supposed to have organic relations, people used to get to know each other through acquaintances, to become intimate with each other over shared interests or things in common, but now an average 5/10 woman are orbited by men because of her online presence and she is also more likely to cheat her boyfriend/husband over the greater variety of options, and a minority of men are doing most of the sex.

I think that extra brutal times are ahead and the worst has yet to come, especially for us. If women and the "top" men don't want to witness any shitstorm coming from "us" and future incels, the most "pacific" way would be following my advice from the OP. Providing more freedom and decriminalizing certain sex-related activities may pacify most male insatisfaction.
 
Those (perhaps meaningless) efforts should be targeted at at people that in some point in their lives might experience some minimal change of heart for some kind of shock or heartbreak.
Most of the soyest naive SJW men, as long as their are straight+cisgender+heterosexual, might experience a change of heart eventually the first time he experiences misery with the opposite sex that greatly becomes ingrained with them. I was a bluepilled cuck once that actually believed that women cared about personality and all I had to do was to approach them and do "nice guyisms", which of course never worked and never will.
And who knows, maybe even some of the sluttiest batshit crazy feminist women might regret some of their beliefs and actions after some time, regretting they did not give some beta male a chance when he was single and now he is a multimillionaire father of 2, while she was riding the cock caroussel with chads and lowlifes. This is the kind of "patriarchy" most women would not mind at all.

And yes, you are correct. Most academics, "investigative journalists" and even Feds (intelligence agencies) are politically biased people who seek nothing but to validate political beliefs and silence any kind of opposition that represent any serious threat to their political conformity and narrative. The mere existence of desperate lonely sexless men, with documented and evidenced data on female advantage in dating, marriage and social privileges, absolutely destroy their feminist narrative that women are oppressed and subservient to a patriarchal society. Like Oscar Wilde once said: "Everything in the world is about sex, except sex. Sex is about power". And women have the most sex, so they have the most power. So this nullifies the entire pandering to women and feminism, as this gives evidence that women are already powerful, politically and also in social dynamics. I greatly suspect this massive pandering to feminism is justified by the fact that the majority of voters in most countries are females (you also have to take into account that women outlive men) , so politicians pander to that demographic, as well as the fact these politicians bureaucrats are always finding a way to collect more taxes, and more welfare programs (especially those targeting at women and "matriarchal families") are means to collect those taxes. Not to mention there might be economical reasons as to why capitalist private megacorporations are pandering to them as well, but I have not studied enough on the matter to provide an opinion. But I will chose to not dive into "Blackrock" conspiracies at this time =)
Again, the type of soy bluepilled SJW men you are trying to target aren't on here, but on reddit or maybe twitter. That's why I felt your post was misplaced on here.

Some other aspects to consider about women in politics:
Men have no ingroup loyality. We evolved to compete with each other to the death, both as groups and within our own group with our friends and peers. Both men and women have a strong pro-female bias (see e.g. this or this ).

In a battle of group interests, you first and foremost need loyality. Women, as the sex that fights its battles in the social arena, have evolved appropriate instincts for this kind of conflict. They lie on surveys to look better without needing to be told to do so. They always find a way to absolve themselfs of responsibility. They always defend the interests of their own, defending women as a group as if they themselfs were the ones attacked. They abuse others sympathy and preferance towards females maximally without shame. Get beaten in an argument? Start crying. Play the victim. Shame the opposition or guilt trip them or make them look bad by making yourself look hurt.

I kinda wanna write more but I'm getting tired. I feel like much of your perspective is still too optimistic in a sense. For example: Women are treated preferentially right now. You see the fertility crisis and think "maybe that will make society reconsider making men obsolete They have to, otherwise society will just crash".

But there are ways in which you can try solving this issue without changing course: Just give even more money to women. Make it so financially lucrative to get pregnant that women want to do it just for purely selfish reasons. Funnel even more money towards them.

In such a world, these women would have no need to settle with some mediocre looking betabux. Just get pregnant with chad, even if he ghosts your ass and you have raise the child alone, the state will take care of you.
 
This post is targeted to normie lurkers of the website, as well to stimulate debate among the userbase about these thoughts.

(rant rant rant)
As long as actions aren't taken against IT trolls (and, frankly, actual members, it seems) that create hateful material in order to make inceldom look violent (like pro-rape or pro-violence against women, even underage girls) there will be little space to discussion.

Sadly even harassment is being tolerated here which is the main incel forum in the world. How the hell are we supposed to ask for better treatment from society if we don't get to respect our own

Theres an insane crab bucket mentality going on. We can't expect to be taken seriously if we keep this going. Advocating for literal violence against anyone just makes us either a laughing stock or considered extremists unnecessarily and kills any hope of good faith dialogues taking place. Who the hell would invite someone to talk about a serious issue that aflicts more than 1 third of males if they can just start spewing shit like "women like rape" or "that 13 year old chick was abused but she liked it"???
 
If it seems impossible to stop some faggots to creating bait topics, at least keep it to the sewers were they belong
 
Again, the type of soy bluepilled SJW men you are trying to target aren't on here, but on reddit or maybe twitter. That's why I felt your post was misplaced on here.

Some other aspects to consider about women in politics:
Men have no ingroup loyality. We evolved to compete with each other to the death, both as groups and within our own group with our friends and peers. Both men and women have a strong pro-female bias (see e.g. this or this ).

In a battle of group interests, you first and foremost need loyality. Women, as the sex that fights its battles in the social arena, have evolved appropriate instincts for this kind of conflict. They lie on surveys to look better without needing to be told to do so. They always find a way to absolve themselfs of responsibility. They always defend the interests of their own, defending women as a group as if they themselfs were the ones attacked. They abuse others sympathy and preferance towards females maximally without shame. Get beaten in an argument? Start crying. Play the victim. Shame the opposition or guilt trip them or make them look bad by making yourself look hurt.

I kinda wanna write more but I'm getting tired. I feel like much of your perspective is still too optimistic in a sense. For example: Women are treated preferentially right now. You see the fertility crisis and think "maybe that will make society reconsider making men obsolete They have to, otherwise society will just crash".

But there are ways in which you can try solving this issue without changing course: Just give even more money to women. Make it so financially lucrative to get pregnant that women want to do it just for purely selfish reasons. Funnel even more money towards them.

In such a world, these women would have no need to settle with some mediocre looking betabux. Just get pregnant with chad, even if he ghosts your ass and you have raise the child alone, the state will take care of you.
Yeah this is true. But I believe things Will get better in a long Time span. Not during our best years but in 30-60 years. With The Rise of automatization, only men could work to keep The society running. Making them The sole breadwinners could Be enough to turn The ship around. Because in late 2010s things got worse Even For normies. You can see this on Every statistic. You Will most likely see things only get Even worse in 2020-2023. But this isnt sustainable in The long run. Its only about The current Elite keeping things running as They like For as long as they can.
 
The loneliness male epidemic is far prevalent for sure. Perhaps relationships now need to be transparent and more transactional with brothels than an $800 dollar diner with Becky and she just blueballs the poor guy. While getting pipped by Chad.
 
This post is targeted to normie lurkers of the website, as well to stimulate debate among the userbase about these thoughts.

I am what some would call "an oldcel", I have far more experience than most of the userbase, I am nearing my 30s and contrarily to most of the userbase my views are more neutral, and aren't ones of a 15yo edgelord, but I understand why most users behave like edgelords. More on that later.

Let's picture the following situation: a male loner, considered to be physically unattractive, either in his teens or adulthood is experiencing depression over his condition. He has few to no friends (of either sex), does not feel desirable as either as a friend or as a sexual partner, people assume his entire personality by his physiognomy (assuming his social circles in virtue of how his physical appearance stands out among the average) which can be a HUGE limiting factor, never gets approached by people in real life to start a nice conversation for that fact (people assume by, again, his physiognomy that this would be a waste of time ) except when being asked for help/favors, or when taking proactivity in approaching people himself, people avoid instigating further conversation with him because they feel adding that man to their social circle would not represent a benefit for themselves.
This man thinks: "oh well, I need to get help". And then goes to a therapist that everything bad happening around him is his fault and his fault only, that he needs to "work on himself", that not socializing with shallow people is a "good riddance", that he needs to repress his sexual desires or simply hire escorts (something that is straight illegal or grey area in most countries), that he needs to find men with similar interests to socialize with and "get some experience etc".
Said man takes that advice, and starts working out, frequenting places where he can hang out with similar-minded peers etc. He also lands on a good and stable job that pays well.
The problems are:
1 - His loneliness was not fulfilled. His desires to find a partner to share intimate times with, satisfy his (biological) sexual urges, dreams of building a family and becoming a welcome member in society, and to feel better and successful about himself, are all being denied to him. He still feels empty and incomplete both as a man and a human being. Prostitution does not cut it. Most sex workers have terrible work ethics, as well as providing a terrible "service" to clients they don't feel any connection to.
2 - Whenever the topic of women, sex and family is brought up by his male peers, he is never invited to join such topics, as people assume by his physical appearance/phenotype he is not considered attractive by women, so he is either not in a relationship or is not very experienced in the subject, so he gets excluded from that conversation.
3 - Women still do not consider him to be physically attractive, do not accept his flirtatious approaches (even well intended ones) nor they approach him. Even though he could be in a good shape, in a slender condition, maybe even with an athletic physique and toned body, sometimes with extreme goals (roids), this is not enough to provide him an opening with the women he feels sexually attracted to. Getting fit does not magically improve his facial aesthetics nor height, and his "average status" financially-wise is not enough to attract the average women he is into. Following PUA scams obviously did not seem to work either, as he could not even get an opening to say cheesy pick up lines, as women were immediately averse to him and any possible advances he made towards them. They rejected him on the spot.

So this man thinks: "What the fuck is going on?". "Why am I not being properly rewarded for my efforts?". "What else should I do? Should I pay dozens of thousands of dollars in surgeries and roids? Should I give all my blood and sweat and get rich just to be able to get an opening and access women I feel attracted to? Should I desperately attempt to to chase women severely below my league in every single regard that did not do in life 1/1000 of all my efforts, while men that did not do any I did at all have access to them effortlessly just because they were born with a better flesh arrangement?"

Naturally, a man in this condition feels depressed, angry and suicidal despite all of the "developments". He gets bitter. He is told to lower his standards, by his therapist, or to completely forget women. They want him to forget it all about his dreams. They shatter his expectations, they suddenly reveal that meritocracy is a myth, and it becomes apparent that success is decided as a birthright. He is then get told that he needs to "work more" (?), to death, perhaps. But at this point, he loses all of his will to attempt anything further, since not a single of the expected reward was given to him. He already worked hard, and expected any reward. He got none instead, and is still get told that he needs to work "harder". How is he supposed to keep going since there is no incentive in sight or anything that gives a clue that he might be heading for success, finding sex, love and a fulfilling life?

Now, let's go back to the "bitterness" part of the story I told above. Let's say a man like that reaches a breaking point in life. He either wants to end it all, or feel society wronged him and becomes angry and hateful.

Remember when I mentioned incel edgelords? The guys the say, in this very board, "go ER", "it's ovER","look for anothER solution", in allusion to Elliot Rodger and massacres, or "kill all normies... In Minecraft/GTA/whatever". Once again, more on that later.

The lonely man wants to feel noted, for once, in his life. Or he feels empathy for people who might be in similar situation as him. Or he wants to feel powerful, for once, in his life. So he decided to take one of the two extreme actions:

1 - He writes a suicide letter in social media, then jumps off a building in an area crowded by people, where his smashed body will obviously cause quite an impression. Some coworkers/classmates or whatever will take notice of him, think the whole thing is sad and all, they would be virtue signalling by saying "I could have helped him if he asked" (spoiler: they would not), maybe a few closest family members will mourn him. Maybe his death would be a small footnote in his city's newspaper footnote. People would talk about it AT MOST for a week. And that's it. Another one bites the dust, or in this case, the ground in high speed (lol).

Or:

2 - He writes a 200-page manifesto on how society wronged him, on how life is unfair, how people must pay for their evil, and blah blah blah, brings lethal fire-weapons to an specific crowded site and sprays bullets in people in brutal fashion attempting to get a high body count, and in the end, either commits suicide or is caught and arrested by the local police. He becomes the spotlight in local news, gets more attention than he ever got in his whole life for such an heinous crime, gets his inceldom condition and life background discussed all over the news, the families of the victims grieve, accuse certain institutions of failing to stop the shooter the monstrous man he became, gets people in general to talk about male loners/incels and "how to stop them/prevent further things for happening"


Which one of the two do you think attracts the most media attention towards the "lonely male" discussion? Which one do you think the large media conglomerates that love violence and sensationalist spectacles would like to cover best for views?

I strongly have the impression that many edgelord incels do not have bloodshed as the goal: they crave for attention, fantasies of power, or expectations that society feels forced to discuss the issues they face. The fantasies for revenge are merely tools to achieve a goal.

My conclusion is that, by not discussing the matter of male loneliness and how to help men upfront without generic advices, by not acknowledging that female hypergamy is real, the large media, social justice NGOs, and "three-letter agencies", are actually enabling edgy mindset and power fantasies. And internet censorship might further radicalize those individuals as they would have nowhere else to vent their frustrations or community hugboxes that could work as a coping mechanism.


Here are my proposals:

1 - STOP using female depression as a metric for male depression:

This Twitter/X thread by Adam Lane Smith sums it up perfectly:


View: https://twitter.com/TheBrometheus/status/1676925337194704897


Especially the points:
- Male depression and female depression often present very differently, and they also tend to heal differently. But most therapy modalities are really only geared to help women recover. Many can actually make men more depressed.
- Men need to feel powerful to be mentally and emotionally healthy. Powerless men feel broken and afraid. Emasculated. To help a man feel better, you must help him feel powerful.
- The male suicide rate is not about wanting to die. It’s about feeling powerless, hopeless, and helpless for way too long. To fix it, we have to make life more appealing than the peace of death. We have to give men power over their lives.
- Male depression is nearly always a result of learned helplessness, but health providers treat it like female depression and try to make men feel loved instead of powerful.
-Most depressed men probably don't need medication. Even then ones who do need it need more than just medication. Depressed men need purpose, a mission, and the power to accomplish that mission.Give a man those 3 things and he can crawl over broken glass with a smile.
- Most women are disgusted when they finally learn how the male sex drive works. Then they test to see if it's true, and when it is, they start to like the new power they hold.
- Most men today can't imagine a space just for men. Every space that was originally for men has been taken over for women seeking attention or somewhere to hang out. And when women invade more spaces that men inhabit, modern men are programmed to withdraw without complaining.
- More women hold college degrees than men and are unlikely to date down in earning potential. This is leading to immense frustration in women who climb the social ladder and then compete for a dwindling population of men. Hardly anyone one is talking about this dating disaster.


2 - People and the large media should start acknowledging average women have a large (and "unfair") advantage over average men in dating:

I mean, it's everywhere now. There is overwhelming data that women nowadays tend to proactively exclusively chase men noticeably above their league in terms of perceived sexual value in physical appearance and in status. There is also hard data that average women have far more sex parners in a short lifespan than most men will have will have during their entire lives. You can find several references online, including academic ones, concluding these facts. Surveys, data from dating services, makes the whole argument and ordeal undeniable.

You can find some references on the incel wiki:


To get thinks worse, most of the social media is focused on pictures/videos these days, so there is a great emphasis in physical appearance, and women are the number 1 consumers of such media, so they now give a great deal of importance in looks, and on top of that they have a wide array of options since the popularization of the internet as a medium earlier this century because they have access to a never possible before amount of potential male partners, so they shallowly pick the best looking ones of the bunch as they have many options. Women back in the day used to find partners in their local parties or within their school or work environment, now they can have connections with men all around the world.

People need to stop thinking the female dating experience is similar to the male dating experience. It is not. Also, many women use their personal experience with male good looking friends as a parameter of male success in dating, but the fact is, these men are the absolute exception, and not the rule. The average man also have to work way harder than a woman to get sex partners, while a woman just need to vent their desires for companionship and they will instantly have candidates available.

3 - There should be a public debate on how to deal with the issue of male loneliness:

I strongly believe that if prostitution was not a taboo or straight illegal topic in most regions aroung the world, most of the concerns about male loneliness in those places would be non-issues. We need to abandon laws based on religious puritanism from centuries ago to provide better professional conditions to both sex workers and clients alike of such services. Men need to be able to offer women money for sex freely if the act itself is of noncoercive nature. This is not exploitative as accepting such offer or not is still a woman's decision, and they will be rewarded for it. In most countries nowadays, if you post an advertisement somewhere "I will pay $100 an hour for any blonde bimbo-type woman to have sex with me" you will be arrested for it, but this is not fair as this is a consesual agreement between two consenting adults. This needs to be reviewed, and many women would love to have that easy money and keep the low profile as they would not want to have prostitution as an official profession. So this would work to the great benefit of women themselves.

Also, people need to look for alternatives instead of simply demonizing lonely men for craving sex and companionship and start working with them instead of against them. Like I said before, simply suggesting therapy won't cut it; what works for women in therapy will not work for men. Most men don't need validation. They need to feel powerful, they need to feel they are in charge of their lives, they need to feel capable. They need to feel their dreams can be achieved, even with some (small, and not severe) concessions. And that includes sex, companionship, and starting a family. Which is getting incredibly difficult by the day for reasons beyond the control and power of men. Incel men are taxpayers too, and currently there is zero elements in most places pandering to them in any level.

Censorship is not the solution. Deplatforming incels, and making incels "shutting the fuck up" about their frustations with women and their feeling of loneliness, then doing absolutely nothing to address this, is not going to stop men from having bad ideas, in fact, it is going to make them further bitter and hateful as like I said before, there is no "pandering" to them and society in no way sees them as victimized or oppressed people. This is an incredibly bad time in history where those issues overlap with female pandering and feminist agenda by the strong far-left propaganda this century, maybe it wouldn't be such an issue if the thing going on was just the hypergamy, but what we have is the feminism plus hypergamy combo.
I personally do not seek to "depower" women. I seek for more freedom for men to fulfill their needs. I hope someday someone will put a thought to this, either men or women in power.


Read everything

Water is wet.

We nonsimps need power and purpose. That is found in becoming a Marxist-Rodgerist revolutionary and seizing the means of reproduction.
 
Read every word. Great thread that I wish did not fall on deaf ears. No bluepiller or Reddit cuck will touch this.
 
Thanks I needed this reminder to fill my water bottle

But a very rational and succinct way to explain the blackpill, honestly ill fitting on this site as it has more then enough logos and pathos and restraint to be posted on a public goy forum like reddit, instagram, twitter etc where it might help the endless strugglers to struggle just a bit less and look towards society and not themselves to blame.

743473473747
 
Read everything

Water is wet.

We nonsimps need power and purpose. That is found in becoming a Marxist-Rodgerist revolutionary and seizing the means of reproduction.
More than just power and purpose, but a sense of reward as well. A sense that, if our cards are played in a certain way, we are certain there will be a reward for that.
Lack of reward makes anyone feel lack a failure, miserable, and less motivated to try anything. This is the #1 problem of normie advice to incels, because most of their generic advices (just get a haircut bro, just dress better bro, just take more showers bro, just lift bro and derivatives) do not immediately reward and more often than not lead those desperate guys that are willing to hear them to failure, and with failure, comes resent, fear and lack of motivation. They rarely come up with palpable, easily reachable goals that feel significantly rewarding, satifying and motivating.
And I don't even mean by setting women and sex as the goal, it could be applied to many things, including finding male friends that are outside of the nerdy male virgin loser clique. They never really feel how is it really like to be on our shoes, especially women (which happen to be most of the therapist demographic), so it's hard for them to feel any sort of empathy or relate to our problems.
 
Think this post would be better on reddit. It's soft and restraint enough to fit on there and maybe convince someone of something.

I don't think this type of argument is gonna get you anywhere though. Reason being that the people that are against us really hate us and demonize us mindlessly, they won't ever be on your side for even a second.
The people that are normal and empathetic enough to maybe be convinced to see things from our perspectve are too timid, too spineless, too reasonable to stand up to the raving ideologues.
They, just like you, might try asking these people nicely and with lots of careful and politically correct reasoning to maybe accept just a little compromise, pretty please :feelsaww:.

But our opposition has never responded to that. They simply keep going, they aggressively shame anyone who thinks to side with us and create some new mentally ill propaganda or warped logic as a counter to your arguments. And then that counter becomes the new dogma. They only react to power, not to pleas for mercy.

I believe we should try and and all strategies to reach more minds, try to meassure what works best and do more of that. From what I have seen, this type of soft appeal to reason and the human decency of the regular person has pretty much never convinced anyone not already on our side. But I have no strong evidence, and more is better, so sure, try it out and see what the reaction is.



One thing I strongly dislike is that even on here many people seem to think that these feminists and academics are not malevolent, but just making an honest mistake. While in reality these people have internalized a world view which paints us as the villain in any and all circumstances. They are like fish in water, the idea that it could be any different is not even on their radar.

As a concrete example: Someone I argued with on reddit recently was convinced that the reason men are having such a hard time right now is.... the patriachy. "As feminist scholars have realized much earlier, men and boys also suffer under patriarchal rule Blablabla". Basically, men have it so bad because the patriarchy forces them to be super manly, an impossible standart that is making them miserable and lonely.

You will not induce a sane way of thinking into these people, no matter what you try. They are way too deep, they aren't coming back. And they actively hate us, this is no mistake, they see us as enemies and in their eyes our crimes justify any means.

Sadists and bullies self-select into their ranks because they are looking for targets they can hurt without having to be afraid of society punishing them for it. That is a significant portion of the people you are dealing with, the kind that wants to hurt but plays the political game so they can hide behind some unfalsifiable ideological excuse.
Very well said. They don't have any ability to change their mind just like you don't know how to see out of your elbow. To them it's that simple, either they're that stupid or it's something else which we don't quite understand yet. A sort of mental conditioning perhaps that occurs when you are born e.g. good looking / average / slightly attractive or whathaveyou. I mean, seriously, these people are clearly sadistic bullies who make fun of anything about you there are no limits, they act like they're good people but openly bully you as a group and NO ONE cares. You're right, they only care about power. Shit's hellish dude.
 
There is no public debate. Debate has always been a sham. Debate is what you do AFTER consolidating your power and blackmailing or threatening your opposition. Then, once they are defenseless, you force them to publicly debate you, and only now will they take their L rather than spewing word salad endlessly.

Debate was fake and gay in ancient Athens. The ancient philosophers, who cared what was true, griped about the sophists who only cared about winning. The sophists would intentionally make fallacious arguments, because these would be very persuasive to stupid people, and the refutation would go stupid people's heads, and exhaust the attention span even of those who could understand it.

You will never win anything in your life until you understand that debate is fake. It's a spectacle like pro wrestling. No movement has ever won through debate, it has won through blackmail and intimidation.
 
A sort of mental conditioning perhaps that occurs when you are born e.g. good looking / average / slightly attractive or whathaveyou. I mean, seriously, these people are clearly sadistic bullies who make fun of anything about you there are no limits, they act like they're good people but openly bully you as a group and NO ONE cares. You're right, they only care about power. Shit's hellish dude.
The conditioning goes like this: they see some other kid get bullied, they suck up to the bully to not get bullied next, they watch the kids who stuck up for the bullied kid (if any) get bullied next, and lesson learned.

This is what becomes of people who were not singled out for bullying. These are the people who say retarded shit like "bullying is a social immune system it's a good thing we need more bullying." Correct answer if you hear someone say that, by the way, is to physically bully them right there on the spot.
 
Inceldom will never be a part of the public debate. The jew overloads relish in incels. They want 2 depopulize the world to half a billion people i think it is, either half a billion or half a million. For them, the more incels the better.
 
There is no public debate. Debate has always been a sham. Debate is what you do AFTER consolidating your power and blackmailing or threatening your opposition. Then, once they are defenseless, you force them to publicly debate you, and only now will they take their L rather than spewing word salad endlessly.

Debate was fake and gay in ancient Athens. The ancient philosophers, who cared what was true, griped about the sophists who only cared about winning. The sophists would intentionally make fallacious arguments, because these would be very persuasive to stupid people, and the refutation would go stupid people's heads, and exhaust the attention span even of those who could understand it.

You will never win anything in your life until you understand that debate is fake. It's a spectacle like pro wrestling. No movement has ever won through debate, it has won through blackmail and intimidation.
Correct. Power is all that matters. You can debate all day but it doesn't matter. It took me almost 30 years to understand that people really just don't care about the truth. People are looking to suck up to the person with the most power so that hopefully they can get rewarded and get some for themselves.
 
The conditioning goes like this: they see some other kid get bullied, they suck up to the bully to not get bullied next, they watch the kids who stuck up for the bullied kid (if any) get bullied next, and lesson learned.

This is what becomes of people who were not singled out for bullying. These are the people who say retarded shit like "bullying is a social immune system it's a good thing we need more bullying." Correct answer if you hear someone say that, by the way, is to physically bully them right there on the spot.
But can they snap out of it? It doesn't seem like they can. It's as if people were born this way. I've noticed all of my life that people are simply more competitive than me, yet time has shown me that I've always been much smarter than most people. Nicer, too. I'm benevolent, trusting, good. All the things that they use to take advantage of me. I suppose I can't say I'm wise, since I'm a fool for being so nice.
 
But can they snap out of it? It doesn't seem like they can. It's as if people were born this way. I've noticed all of my life that people are simply more competitive than me, yet time has shown me that I've always been much smarter than most people. Nicer, too. I'm benevolent, trusting, good. All the things that they use to take advantage of me. I suppose I can't say I'm wise, since I'm a fool for being so nice.
No, they can't. They're forever damaged. They're wired to suck up to people who abuse them, and abuse people who are kind to them. I believe it's mainly environmental.

They're more competitive because of Dunning-Kruger. People who are intelligent and especially good at something, they project this onto others, and don't create unnecessary competitions because they could end up embarrass themselves. People who are stupid and don't know anything, they project this onto others also, and create unnecessary competitions because they think the odds are in their favor. After all, they will just spew word salad if they're losing, they have nothing to fear.

The only solution I've been able to find is to insert the possibility of violence into things, and to be much better at it than the cattle. When they're not behaving in an acceptable manner, I can just nonverbally threaten them. Things like staring them down while getting closer, walking around toward their back so they have to turn, etc; things that don't meet the legal standards for any crime but make people get scared.
 
No, they can't. They're forever damaged. They're wired to suck up to people who abuse them, and abuse people who are kind to them. I believe it's mainly environmental.

They're more competitive because of Dunning-Kruger. People who are intelligent and especially good at something, they project this onto others, and don't create unnecessary competitions because they could end up embarrass themselves. People who are stupid and don't know anything, they project this onto others also, and create unnecessary competitions because they think the odds are in their favor. After all, they will just spew word salad if they're losing, they have nothing to fear.

The only solution I've been able to find is to insert the possibility of violence into things, and to be much better at it than the cattle. When they're not behaving in an acceptable manner, I can just nonverbally threaten them. Things like staring them down while getting closer, walking around toward their back so they have to turn, etc; things that don't meet the legal standards for any crime but make people get scared.
Super high IQ. I agree with what you're saying here. I've come to realize with time that the truth is quite obvious to those who are in power but we the common people are simply not allowed to have access to it. The truth is simply unavailable to the general public so it seems as if our progress is "frozen" while they play dumb and pretend that they're "doing research". The simple fact is that the public are not ready to know the truth. It wouldn't be beneficial for anyone, unfortunately. So the people with the most power just keep it to themselves and abuse and slowly kill off those who are too stupid to deserve anything better.
 
Inceldom will never be a part of the public debate. The jew overloads relish in incels. They want 2 depopulize the world to half a billion people i think it is, either half a billion or half a million. For them, the more incels the better.
Someone will have to pay taxes and consume, to sustain said powerful people. If most low-tier men (which make up the majority of men) are exterminated, who are supposed to be the ones to do that?
 
Someone will have to pay taxes and consume, to sustain said powerful people. If most low-tier men (which make up the majority of men) are exterminated, who are supposed to be the ones to do that?
Money doesnt matter, whether there is 10 billion ppl or half a million they will rule just as extravagantly
 
As a concrete example: Someone I argued with on reddit recently was convinced that the reason men are having such a hard time right now is.... the patriachy. "As feminist scholars have realized much earlier, men and boys also suffer under patriarchal rule Blablabla". Basically, men have it so bad because the patriarchy forces them to be super manly, an impossible standart that is making them miserable and lonely.
JFL the only ones forcing men to be "manly" are women. They BIOLOGICALLY require it out of men - men must be dominant, tall, good-looking, etc. Men must make them feel small, protected, etc. It is not "patriarchy" making men feel pressured, it is HUMAN NATURE.
You will not induce a sane way of thinking into these people, no matter what you try. They are way too deep, they aren't coming back. And they actively hate us, this is no mistake, they see us as enemies and in their eyes our crimes justify any means.

Sadists and bullies self-select into their ranks because they are looking for targets they can hurt without having to be afraid of society punishing them for it. That is a significant portion of the people you are dealing with, the kind that wants to hurt but plays the political game so they can hide behind some unfalsifiable ideological excuse.
100%. High IQ statement on your behalf, ngl - these people are psychopathic (a female trait to an extent, too) and hyperfocused on social dominance, so it's only natural.
 
Men need to feel powerful to be mentally and emotionally healthy. Powerless men feel broken and afraid. Emasculated. To help a man feel better, you must help him feel powerful.
I never felt this tbh. I felt need to have my sexual desires met also i felt the pain of being treated as disposable having low neoteny male body. I love winning competitions but i find the idea of feeling powerfull just silly since you can die at any moment and there will be someone better and stronger than you (maybe extraterrestrial species who knows). I am hyper aware of this to the point it eroded my need to feel powerfull. What i feel is anger and frustration when i am not goo at something i put so much efforts into like f eks sports. I never had a stable job and i was fired because i wasn’t efficient enough in a office job but it just was a relief: i will never be able to hold this kind of job but i don’t care since i don’t see working 40 hours a week in a office like a monkey as something exciting. Being homeless is litterally more exciting than this.
I think my mild depression comes mainly from hyper awareness plus autism
 
Literally the only real solution on a civilizational level is tight fisted patriarchal control over women. As long as women have the freedom to choose, they WILL choose badly.
Just as like how when given the choice between videogames and war most men will choose videogames even if war is necessary ( that said, men can and will be forced by gunpoint so it doesn't matter what men prefer, unlike with women ).
Difficult to convince tradcucks about this water wet shit
 
As long as actions aren't taken against IT trolls (and, frankly, actual members, it seems) that create hateful material in order to make inceldom look violent (like pro-rape or pro-violence against women, even underage girls) there will be little space to discussion.

Sadly even harassment is being tolerated here which is the main incel forum in the world. How the hell are we supposed to ask for better treatment from society if we don't get to respect our own

Theres an insane crab bucket mentality going on. We can't expect to be taken seriously if we keep this going. Advocating for literal violence against anyone just makes us either a laughing stock or considered extremists unnecessarily and kills any hope of good faith dialogues taking place. Who the hell would invite someone to talk about a serious issue that aflicts more than 1 third of males if they can just start spewing shit like "women like rape" or "that 13 year old chick was abused but she liked it"???
Cucked house negro take
 
No you are simply wrong and i am mocking you for being cuckedly wrong
OK, IT guy. Now go there post your screenies so your friends give you those upvotes you crave more than sex.

You're not fooling anyone here.
 
If you defend rape, violence against women or shit like that, you're not edgy, you're not funny. You're just being a fool and giving our enemies - perceived or not - all they want.

Good luck
 
I never felt this tbh. I felt need to have my sexual desires met also i felt the pain of being treated as disposable having low neoteny male body. I love winning competitions but i find the idea of feeling powerfull just silly since you can die at any moment and there will be someone better and stronger than you (maybe extraterrestrial species who knows). I am hyper aware of this to the point it eroded my need to feel powerfull.
Every typical incel problem would go away if we obviously had the certainty we could attract any women we want, and for that you need power. (yes, looks do bring that sort of power, but even among chads there is competition and the most "powerful" one wins)
What i feel is anger and frustration when i am not goo at something i put so much efforts into like f eks sports. I never had a stable job and i was fired because i wasn’t efficient enough in a office job but it just was a relief: i will never be able to hold this kind of job but i don’t care since i don’t see working 40 hours a week in a office like a monkey as something exciting. Being homeless is litterally more exciting than this.
I think my mild depression comes mainly from hyper awareness plus autism
I can relate to the "being fired" thing as it happened to me recently, and I would be lying if I said there isn't comfort into being a NEET who isn't ordered around by anyone and being able to work on whatever the fuck you want. It feels especially good not being around clueless boomer bosses who micromanage you, think they are worth shit and their way is the only way. If I had their positions, I would mog their "jobs" into oblivion. The fact these guys receive up to 4x my salary is appalling and the ultimate proof of unfairness.
 
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I've never been much of a reading person
 

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