Discussion The question of whether inceldom is a problem of "validation" versus merely lack of sex

[Deleted member 18193]

What even is the main problem of inceldom? If it was just the lack of sex, that problem could be easily solved with an escort. But clearly it is not; the common problem is the lack of validation. People here are angry because they have been socially rejected and they wish they could experience the validation someone of higher status than them experiences. People here don't just want sex, they want to be found attractive to women who aren't being paid to do so.

Of course the desire is not biological. However, that doesn't mean you can easily detach it merely by being 'self-aware'.

The controversial part comes in whether or not that virtual desire can be expunged completely; you can't just snap your finger and let go of your ego, because the only thing that would seek to kill the ego is the ego itself. Most of the time going down that path fails; instead people create for themselves a narcissistic "false self" which will prevent them from seeing the difference between the internal and external reality. Ironically, the same narcissism arises that would otherwise arise in the previous state of mind, and perhaps even more so. And that can often lead to some inconsistencies in the way one tries to express the newfound desires they wish for.

Is there a solid way of absolving the proposed socially indoctrinated values and beliefs without falling victim to the case of extreme narcissism defined by psychoanalytic theory? That is a question left unanswered.

 

[BlkPillPres]

INCEL

INVOLUNTARILY CELIBATE

CELIBACY AS IN NOT HAVING SEX

WHAT INCELDOM IS PRIMARILY ABOUT IS LITERALLY IN THE TERM ITSELF (INCEL)

Guys need to stop conflating "incel" with "inlon"

INLON

INVOLUNTARILY LONELY

They're not the same thing, again, don't confuse the PREREQUISITE with GOAL, you need to not be lonely (have someone) in order to have sex, many incels are confusing that yearning for sex with "something deeper" (its sexual yearning that drives their loneliness)

This is why men who get laid often PUMP AND DUMP, they are having their needs met so they don't have the DELUSION many incels have of "its more than just sex"

A lot of incels have pretty much CO-OPTED what inceldom is about in the same way that trolls and trapfags took over 4chan/r9k and then "that's all people saw it for"

I made a thread about this very topic:

[Hard To Swallow Edition] You Only THINK Loneliness is What Frustrates You, Loneliness Is Not The Problem, Lack Of Sexual Satisfaction Is

Your life is miserable because you aren't sexually satisfied People often bring up Elliot Roger going on and on about loneliness in his manifesto, and falsely cite that as an example of proof, that inceldom is about loneliness, lack of companionship and female affection, etc That's nothing but...

incels.is

 

[Deleted member 22572]

I would just like to be treated like a human or at least not treated like shit

 

[Deleted member 18193]

INCEL

INVOLUNTARILY CELIBATE

CELIBACY AS IN NOT HAVING SEX

WHAT INCELDOM IS PRIMARILY ABOUT IS LITERALLY IN THE TERM ITSELF (INCEL)

Guys need to stop conflating "incel" with "inlon"

INLON

INVOLUNTARILY LONELY

They're not the same thing, again, don't confuse the PREREQUISITE with GOAL, you need to not be lonely (have someone) in order to have sex, many incels are confusing that yearning for sex with "something deeper" (its sexual yearning that drives their loneliness)

This is why men who get laid often PUMP AND DUMP, they are having their needs met so they don't have the DELUSION many incels have of "its more than just sex"

A lot of incels have pretty much CO-OPTED what inceldom is about in the same way that trolls and trapfags took over 4chan/r9k and then "that's all people saw it for"

I made a thread about this very topic:

[Hard To Swallow Edition] You Only THINK Loneliness is What Frustrates You, Loneliness Is Not The Problem, Lack Of Sexual Satisfaction Is

Your life is miserable because you aren't sexually satisfied People often bring up Elliot Roger going on and on about loneliness in his manifesto, and falsely cite that as an example of proof, that inceldom is about loneliness, lack of companionship and female affection, etc That's nothing but...

incels.is

Loneliness is a secondary emotion, a symptom of the lack of sexual satisfaction. If sexual satisfaction is just obtaining the best physical pleasure then you might as well just jerk off. But it's not that simple. Because even using escorts is a form of chasing validation.

I am speaking about validation mainly in terms of having the 'knowledge' that you have dominance, power, and influence over others. Money is another way to have influence, but 90+% incels will not become rich.

The reason I say it is the lack of 'validation' is because of the idea that a lot the component of sexual satisfaction comes the other person having the knowledge that because the woman is voluntarily letting her body be used by him, he knows he is higher status. And higher status people will have easier access to resources.

Pumping and dumping is a way for a male to feel even more powerful, because he knows that the higher number of women he fucks, the higher status is he in comparison to other males. And that status, once again, gives him power and influence over others.

Using an escort can not make you feel like you have more dominance over someone who has sex with someone else voluntarily if both of you make the same income.

 

[MaxZM98]

mainly sex. prostitutes are too expensive, they are ugly/overweight/old (using fake pics online), are likely to be diseased and only let you partake in limited sex acts (for example you must wear a condom), therefore it is not so simple to say 'if you want sex you can just use an escort'

interestingly, validation is very important too. once an escort gave me a GFE (would compliment me and chat to me), and i felt so good inside.

 

[BlkPillPres]

Using an escort can not make you feel like you have more dominance over someone who has sex with someone else voluntarily if both of you make the same income.

This is one of the most retarded things I've ever read, that's like saying rape isn't a more dominating act and consensual sex is the peak of domination, do you not know what the word "dominate" means

A whore doesn't want to fuck you, so fucking a whore, especially one the facially shows disgust, is 100 times more dominating than fucking a woman that wants to fuck you

I really don't know how else to explain this, this is common sense, 1+1=2

Pumping and dumping is a way for a male to feel even more powerful

No that's rape, rape makes a man feel way more powerful than pump and dump, there is nothing powerful about someone LETTING YOU do something, your logic is ridiculous

 

[Deleted member 18193]

mainly sex. prostitutes are too expensive, they are ugly/overweight/old (using fake pics online), are likely to be diseased and only let you partake in limited sex acts (for example you must wear a condom), therefore it is not so simple to say 'if you want sex you can just use an escort'

interestingly, validation is very important too. once an escort gave me a GFE (would compliment me and chat to me), and i felt so good inside.

The idea that I have is that there are different levels of validation. Validation is something all humans chase, regardless of whether they are aware of it or not.

Using escorts is more pleasurable than masturbation because you know that the act will happen, not necessarily because of the physical act itself.

It seems inconsistent to me the idea that physical pleasure is all that matters, because for that matter, you might as well go buy a pack of meat from Walmart, warm it up in the microwave and stick your dick into it back and forth.

When you masturbate, you are tricking your brain into thinking you are having sex. When you are using an escort, the validation that comes from the 'knowledge' that you have a physical woman is what makes the experience all the more sexually gratifying; it is psychological. And if we go another level up, receiving voluntary sexual acts feel even better because of the validation that we've been speaking about.

 

[BlkPillPres]

mainly sex. prostitutes are too expensive, they are ugly/overweight/old (using fake pics online), are likely to be diseased and only let you partake in limited sex acts (for example you must wear a condom), therefore it is not so simple to say 'if you want sex you can just use an escort'

interestingly, validation is very important too. once an escort gave me a GFE (would compliment me and chat to me), and i felt so good inside.

1. You visited shitty prostitutes

2. JFL if you felt "so good inside" by getting fed a delusion by the kind of woman you just described - "they are ugly/overweight/old (using fake pics online), are likely to be diseased and only let you partake in limited sex acts (for example you must wear a condom)"

 

[Deleted member 18193]

This is one of the most retarded things I've ever read, that's like saying rape isn't a more dominating act and consensual sex is the peak of domination, do you not know what the word "dominate" means

A whore doesn't want to fuck you, so fucking a whore, especially one the facially shows disgust, is 100 times more dominating than fucking a woman that wants to fuck you

I really don't know how else to explain this, this is common sense, 1+1=2

No that's rape, rape makes a man feel way more powerful than pump and dump, there is nothing powerful about someone LETTING YOU do something, your logic is ridiculous

Nah, you just didn't like my response. But if you want to go out and rape, go ahead. What is stopping you from doing so at this moment?

 

[BlkPillPres]

It seems inconsistent to me the idea that physical pleasure is all that matters, because for that matter, you might as well go buy a pack of meat from Walmart, warm it up in the microwave and stick your dick into it back and forth.

Retard tier strawman, the physical pleasure of sex is more than just "my dick feels good", its the feeling of dominance, its the physical sensation of warmth, etc

Nah, you just didn't like my response

I think I'll end it on that note before I start losing brain cells, why are all your responses so stupid, it only makes people think you are trolling, that's really what you deduced from all this, I just didn't like your response?

 

[Deleted member 18193]

Retard tier strawman, the physical pleasure of sex is more than just "my dick feels good", its the feeling of dominance, its the physical sensation of warmth, etc


I think I'll end it on that note before I start losing brain cells, why are all your responses so stupid, it only makes people think you are trolling, that's really what you deduced from all this, I just didn't like your response

What is stopping you from going out right now and raping?

 

[MaxZM98]

1. You visited shitty prostitutes

2. JFL if you felt "so good inside" by getting fed a delusion by the kind of woman you just described - "they are ugly/overweight/old (using fake pics online), are likely to be diseased and only let you partake in limited sex acts (for example you must wear a condom)"

i have seen 6 escorts. the one who gave a GFE experience was like 7/10..but in general it's hard to find good looking escorts. at least in the uk

 

[MaxZM98]

The idea that I have is that there are different levels of validation. Validation is something all humans chase, regardless of whether they are aware of it or not.

Using escorts is more pleasurable than masturbation because you know that the act will happen, not necessarily because of the physical act itself.

It seems inconsistent to me the idea that physical pleasure is all that matters, because for that matter, you might as well go buy a pack of meat from Walmart, warm it up in the microwave and stick your dick into it back and forth.

When you masturbate, you are tricking your brain into thinking you are having sex. When you are using an escort, the validation that comes from the 'knowledge' that you have a physical woman is what makes the experience all the more sexually gratifying; it is psychological. And if we go another level up, receiving voluntary sexual acts feel even better because of the validation that we've been speaking about.

i disagree. the pleasure of masturbation cannot be compared with the pleasure of real sex with an attractive women. it physically feels better, and the whole experience (human touch, sound, warmth etc) makes it completely different from mere masturbation. even if you are having sex with an escort, it is incomparable to mere masturbation, even though you know she is only doing it for money so there is no 'validation'. i dont think masturbation is 'tricking' the brain into thinking you are having sex. to me it's like the difference between chewing tasteless chewing gum or drinking soylent, and eating a nutritious meal.
i can say this as an escortcel, although i dont know what your experiences are.

 

[Deleted member 18193]

i disagree. the pleasure of masturbation cannot be compared with the pleasure of real sex with an attractive women. it physically feels better, and the whole experience (human touch, sound, warmth etc) makes it completely different from mere masturbation. even if you are having sex with an escort, it is incomparable to mere masturbation, even though you know she is only doing it for money so there is no 'validation'. i dont think masturbation is 'tricking' the brain into thinking you are having sex. to me it's like the difference between chewing tasteless chewing gum or drinking soylent, and eating a nutritious meal.
i can say this as an escortcel, although i dont know what your experiences are.

The question(more philosophical) I was hinting at (which I should have been more clear) was if you can simulate all of the physical experiences to be indistinguishable from reality, like you describe (the warmth, touch, sounds) as well as all the sensory stimuli (visual, sound, touch, smell, etc), would it produce the same feeling? (assuming you are aware it is only simulated)

 

[Deleted member 8353]

I've accepted that women don't find me attractive. Tbh I just want to have sex.

 

[LooksAreLife]

I would just like to be treated like a human or at least not treated like shit

 

[MaxZM98]

The question(more philosophical) I was hinting at (which I should have been more clear) was if you can simulate all of the physical experiences to be indistinguishable from reality, like you describe (the warmth, touch, sounds) as well as all the sensory stimuli (visual, sound, touch, smell, etc), would it produce the same feeling? (assuming you are aware it is only simulated)

well, i dont think that will ever happen, certainly not in our lifetimes. if it feels the EXACT same, then i guess it wouldnt matter much...although practically we will never have this situation.

 

[DirtyCurryCell]

If it was just about sex, then escortcels wouldn't be posting here.

And a lot of people would've dumpster dived.

This is another reason I believe that normie relationships don't mean jackshit. They dumpster dive. And then they take whatever they get. They have no standards. To them it's just about sex.

 

[Personalityinkwell]

Well, people on this forum have been banned for getting tinder matches, and people have argued that you can be a fakecel even if you didn't stick your dick in a vagina. Then there are all sorts of semantics on "fakecel gatekeeping"

https://incels.is/threads/if-a-girl...ny-point-in-your-life-youre-a-fakecel.203586/

https://incels.is/threads/if-women-want-to-talk-to-you-youre-a-fakecel.196635/

So those things are seen as fakecel, yet one who fucks escorts constantly is "incel"

It does seem that its a self esteem isseu for many and not a lack of sex issue.

It's funny how the "anyone can use an escort" argument is used when for many, it's not an option due to legal and/or financial reasons, and if they were to do it, it would be such a large investment for such a short session as compared to someone who can use escorts regularly without it affecting their lifestyle.

 

[Mainländer]

Pretty much anyone can get with an escort, even if just once after saving to go to a neighbor country if anything, so we have a problem if we tie it only to sex. Every non-escortcel would be a volcel.

I think there's a difference between having typical escort sex or betabuxx starfish sex and having passionate, willing, submissive (from the part of the foid) sex with attractive women (what Chad gets).

tl;dr: it's more about willingness than validation really.