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The problem of ideology

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Honestly, most ideologies are retarded.


Think of it like this: every group of people is a cult. Law, morality, God... all refer to the same rules of the cult. Most likely, you incels are at the bottom of that cult and have restricted rights. Therefore, do not let the cult choose you. Instead, choose a cult that serves your reproductive goals. If you have no potential to achieve reproductive goals in that cult, you should leave. Also, grinding for money to pay for surrogacy is an option. You can use eugenics and hope for a superior child.

Every cult I know tries to trick you and use you for the group's goals. Stay awake, guys.
 
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Hmm, So a foid worshipper cult?
 
I don't want to reproduce, I want humanity to be annihilated
 
Actually, .is is also a cult. Every group of people is a cult.
So whens the sacrifice? Who are we sacrificing? :feelsjuice:

a pixel art of a cross in a red circle on a black background
 
Then sactrifice them so the rest of us can sustain a little bit of peace

a man in a black shirt is making a funny face and smiling .
I don't want to serve the group's ego. They are just illusions, but reproduction is the only thing that is real.
 
I don't want to serve the group's ego. They are just illusions, but reproduction is the only thing that is real.
Hmm, What EGO? All we want is pussy, Reproduction or sex is our goal, Not sure what your trying to say here, We all want sex on this forum.
 
No, having children is retarded and a cope.
Thread 'Anti natalist rant' https://incels.is/threads/anti-natalist-rant.700642/
I am still alive, and to continue living without falling into the destructive vortex of nihilism, I must have something to cling to. Therefore, to continue living, I must reproduce.
Actually, you don't need foid. Surrogacy is also an option.

Reproduction is an absolute truth that all living creatures must obey. If you don't reproduce, then you'd better go commit suicide.
 
Hmm, What EGO? All we want is pussy, Reproduction or sex is our goal, Not sure what your trying to say here, We all want sex on this forum.
I don't need pussy or enemies. I don't want to follow the egregore of a group that doesn't serve my purpose.

I just want to reproduce.
 
I don't need pussy or enemies. I don't want to follow the egregore of a group that doesn't serve my purpose.

I just want to reproduce.
I would like to be a father aswell but how would my kids life be? To reproduce as an ugly incel, His life would be hell.
 
I am still alive, and to continue living without falling into the destructive vortex of nihilism, I must have something to cling to. Therefore, to continue living, I must reproduce.
Actually, you don't need foid. Surrogacy is also an option.

Reproduction is an absolute truth that all living creatures must obey. If you don't reproduce, then you'd better go commit suicide.
Yeah you are right. The entirety of humanity must commit a species wide suicide through their own extinction. Love does not exist, reproduction is pointless and can only hurt people like us as the best subchads can hope to ever be is cucked betabux idiots who are resented by our own children and wife and live miserabley as their slave. By the way you will never be some sort of red pill cope andrew tate genghis khan slayer who lays his seed in a hundred bitches and never has to raise the results, nor would that actually benefit you other than the enjoyment of having the sex.

All humans must die. There is not a singular reason to reproduce or for our species to continue. It only makes us miserable.
 
I would like to be a father aswell but how would my kids life be? To reproduce as an ugly incel, His life would be hell.
Don't let group morality fool you.

You don't even need to care much about the child, but try to help it live and reproduce. With blackpill knowledge and incel IQ, it will thrive in a chaotic world.
 
Yeah you are right. The entirety of humanity must commit a species wide suicide through their own extinction. Love does not exist, reproduction is pointless and can only hurt people like us as the best subchads can hope to ever be is cucked betabux idiots who are resented by our own children and wife and live miserabley as their slave. By the way you will never be some sort of red pill cope andrew tate genghis khan slayer who lays his seed in a hundred bitches and never has to raise the results, nor would that actually benefit you other than the enjoyment of having the sex.

All humans must die. There is not a singular reason to reproduce or for our species to continue. It only makes us miserable.
Good for you. I want to live, so I will reproduce.
 
Don't let group morality fool you.

You don't even need to care much about the child, but try to help it live and reproduce. With blackpill knowledge and incel IQ, it will thrive in a chaotic world.
Ummm, I have been neglected by my parents all my life "You don't even need to care much about the child" Excuse me but fuck off!
 
Reproduction is an absolute truth that all living creatures must obey. If you don't reproduce, then you'd better go commit suicide.
I really don’t get the point of antinatalists. If you think the very existence of your own species is detrimental, then the only logical conclusion of your philosophy would be to kys. If you don’t value the very life you live, why still live it?
 
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Yeah you are right. The entirety of humanity must commit a species wide suicide through their own extinction. Love does not exist, reproduction is pointless and can only hurt people like us as the best subchads can hope to ever be is cucked betabux idiots who are resented by our own children and wife and live miserabley as their slave. By the way you will never be some sort of red pill cope andrew tate genghis khan slayer who lays his seed in a hundred bitches and never has to raise the results, nor would that actually benefit you other than the enjoyment of having the sex.

All humans must die. There is not a singular reason to reproduce or for our species to continue. It only makes us miserable.
What do you think your purpose is, other than simply existing?
 
Alright, let the group's morals guide you. Good for you.
Morals? I go to the gym regularly like the normies say will get me a GF, "Just go to the gym bro"

I follow my own morals, Dont need to put every nigger in the same shoe.
There is no reason for me to be banned.
Where have i implied a ban?
 
Morals? I go to the gym regularly like the normies say will get me a GF, "Just go to the gym bro"

I follow my own morals, Dont need to put every nigger in the same shoe
Good for you. Unfortunately, egregores are real and they can manipulate your behavior without you even realizing it. The concept of egregores is correct, but I disagree with the mystical approach.

Well, you have your own morality? That's really strange; I've never met anyone who lives by their own morality rather than that of the cult. People often deceive themselves.
Do you understand?
Where have i implied a ban?
I misunderstood you, sorry about that.
 
What do you think your purpose is, other than simply existing?
That fool is just deceiving himself. If that's what he thinks, he should go suicide.
 
Good for you. Unfortunately, egregores are real and they can manipulate your behavior without you even realizing it. The concept of egregores is correct, but I disagree with the mystical approach.

Well, you have your own morality? That's really strange; I've never met anyone who lives by their own morality rather than that of the cult. People often deceive themselves.
Do you understand?

I misunderstood you, sorry about that.
Try and make sense :forcedsmile:
 
Try and make sense :forcedsmile:
Alright, just listen to the Jews.
You are incapable of having your own morality; morality cannot exist without reference to a group. Because you are still living within the cult and using the language of the cult, what you believe to be right or moral is defined by the cult.
 
Alright, just listen to the Jews.
You are incapable of having your own morality; morality cannot exist without reference to a group. Because you are still living within the cult and using the language of the cult, what you believe to be right or moral is defined by the cult.
If morality only exists within groups, then you have no basis to say any group’s morality is wrong—including the one you’re attacking. Your argument makes your own criticism meaningless.
 
If morality only exists within groups, then you have no basis to say any group’s morality is wrong—including the one you’re attacking. Your argument makes your own criticism meaningless.
Actually, yes. Cult can paint countless illusions, but I know there is only one thing that is real; that is reproduction, it is the ultimate truth that lies outside the morality of any group.

The problem with ethics is that it deceives you into serving the group's purposes rather than your own. I just want to expose them.
 
Yeah you are right. The entirety of humanity must commit a species wide suicide through their own extinction. Love does not exist, reproduction is pointless and can only hurt people like us as the best subchads can hope to ever be is cucked betabux idiots who are resented by our own children and wife and live miserabley as their slave. By the way you will never be some sort of red pill cope andrew tate genghis khan slayer who lays his seed in a hundred bitches and never has to raise the results, nor would that actually benefit you other than the enjoyment of having the sex.

All humans must die. There is not a singular reason to reproduce or for our species to continue. It only makes us miserable.
Your antinatalistic conclusion is only sensible if you presuppose the most extreme form of negative utilitarianism, and grant the elimination of suffering lexical priority — though you would still have to justify the notion that pro-mortalism is the natural extension of such logic, since species-wide suicide could potentially cause great levels of suffering in and of itself. There is no logic explained behind how we can meaningfully measure suffering, let alone aggregate it across the phenomenological experiences of persons on Earth.

Not to mention you would still have to justify the lexical priority of the negation of suffering, which is highly dubious, since suffering itself requires some criteria; what is suffering? Is there a meaningful difference between suffering with purpose, and suffering meaninglessly? I, for one, would choose to exist even if I knew how miserable my life was going to be, because I do find qualia to be meaningfully valuable. Of course, life may be utterly wretched for us, but it does not necessitate that great suffering will continue to persist for all generations to come, as long as humanity prevails and marches down the path toward human flourishing.

Antinatalism is the epitome of the female mindset, since it is contradictory, selfish, and subverts civilization itself; furthermore, it is impractical, since it could never be properly applied without betraying its own values. Would a theoretical button that eliminates the concept of life be one we ought to press? Perhaps, since it would be a hypothetical scenario inside a vacuum without any unforeseeable consequences, but that is all that can be rationally granted in favor of such a philosophy.

Even the post you cited includes many problematic holes, since most of the arguments made cannot properly address the non-identity problem; even if one were to try to appeal to general suffering that does not require a specific subject, it would not escape this issue, as you are appealing to the consent of a non-existent being; the potentiality of individual consent, which cannot be coherent without an individual. I have seen some antinatalistic philosophers argue that no life is worth starting, but it seemingly fails to solve the issue, since it discusses a subject (life) without a subject — and it leads to repugnant conclusions about people who are already alive, though you seem to have no issue with that. I do believe some of the counterintuitive conclusions that the non-identity problem leads to can be addressed, but the optimal way to do so is with impersonal ethics; consent cannot be coherent within impersonal ethics. I suppose you could appeal to the notion that any life being brought to existence necessitates suffering, but the problem is that any level of suffering alone does not immediately justify nonexistence. It would certainly be immoral to conceive a child in extremely bad circumstances, in which basic necessities cannot be met, but as long as the person's needs are met — a meaningful life could be lived.

Ironically, this entire philosophy is antithetical to NU in the public space, since antinatalism is strongly correlated with existential nihilism — I would even say it necessitates it, in a sense. People who are nihilistic are more likely to be depressed, lead meaningless lives, and generally suffer more because of their bleak worldview; the irony is that the framework which preaches the elimination of suffering causes greater suffering to already present moral agents.

An anti-natalist is only able to make this argument because existence allows him to. In making this argument, it is ironic that he turns against the very thing that made it possible in the first place for him to make this argument. In general, life is fundamentally what allows such arguments and the meaningful discussion about the "purpose of life" possible — hence every antinatalistic argument suffers from a sort of supervenience. It is then suspicious to apply the attributes of meaning, purpose pleasure and pain to life itself. Life stands above these human ideas which should apply only to entities within life. If I remember correctly, while in a different context, Wittgenstein has made a similar argument about language itself: it cannot be coherently used when you strip it of its natural purpose, thus he argued many philosophical quandaries were merely language games, such as: "This sentence is false." One could consider the antinatalistic usage of nonexistence as a coherent concept to compare against as a language game in and of itself, especially the asymmetry argument.
 
I really don’t get the point of antinatalists. If you think the very existence of your own species is detrimental, then the only logical conclusion of your philosophy would be to kys. If you don’t value the very life you live, why still live it?
Sorry for missing your comment.

As you said, antinatalism is essentially just another cult for the losers in the battle for the womb. It's just a coping mechanism for those superficial people to delude themselves into thinking they have the right to choose. Antinatalists are all cowards who use antinatalism as a cope instead of seeking absolute truth through logic.
 
Your antinatalistic conclusion is only sensible if you presuppose the most extreme form of negative utilitarianism, and grant the elimination of suffering lexical priority — though you would still have to justify the notion that pro-mortalism is the natural extension of such logic, since species-wide suicide could potentially cause great levels of suffering in and of itself. There is no logic explained behind how we can meaningfully measure suffering, let alone aggregate it across the phenomenological experiences of persons on Earth.

Not to mention you would still have to justify the lexical priority of the negation of suffering, which is highly dubious, since suffering itself requires some criteria; what is suffering? Is there a meaningful difference between suffering with purpose, and suffering meaninglessly? I, for one, would choose to exist even if I knew how miserable my life was going to be, because I do find qualia to be meaningfully valuable. Of course, life may be utterly wretched for us, but it does not necessitate that great suffering will continue to persist for all generations to come, as long as humanity prevails and marches down the path toward human flourishing.

Antinatalism is the epitome of the female mindset, since it is contradictory, selfish, and subverts civilization itself; furthermore, it is impractical, since it could never be properly applied without betraying its own values. Would a theoretical button that eliminates the concept of life be one we ought to press? Perhaps, since it would be a hypothetical scenario inside a vacuum without any unforeseeable consequences, but that is all that can be rationally granted in favor of such a philosophy.

Even the post you cited includes many problematic holes, since most of the arguments made cannot properly address the non-identity problem; even if one were to try to appeal to general suffering that does not require a specific subject, it would not escape this issue, as you are appealing to the consent of a non-existent being; the potentiality of individual consent, which cannot be coherent without an individual. I have seen some antinatalistic philosophers argue that no life is worth starting, but it seemingly fails to solve the issue, since it discusses a subject (life) without a subject — and it leads to repugnant conclusions about people who are already alive, though you seem to have no issue with that. I do believe some of the counterintuitive conclusions that the non-identity problem leads to can be addressed, but the optimal way to do so is with impersonal ethics; consent cannot be coherent within impersonal ethics. I suppose you could appeal to the notion that any life being brought to existence necessitates suffering, but the problem is that any level of suffering alone does not immediately justify nonexistence. It would certainly be immoral to conceive a child in extremely bad circumstances, in which basic necessities cannot be met, but as long as the person's needs are met — a meaningful life could be lived.

Ironically, this entire philosophy is antithetical to NU in the public space, since antinatalism is strongly correlated with existential nihilism — I would even say it necessitates it, in a sense. People who are nihilistic are more likely to be depressed, lead meaningless lives, and generally suffer more because of their bleak worldview; the irony is that the framework which preaches the elimination of suffering causes greater suffering to already present moral agents.

An anti-natalist is only able to make this argument because existence allows him to. In making this argument, it is ironic that he turns against the very thing that made it possible in the first place for him to make this argument. In general, life is fundamentally what allows such arguments and the meaningful discussion about the "purpose of life" possible — hence every antinatalistic argument suffers from a sort of supervenience. It is then suspicious to apply the attributes of meaning, purpose pleasure and pain to life itself. Life stands above these human ideas which should apply only to entities within life. If I remember correctly, while in a different context, Wittgenstein has made a similar argument about language itself: it cannot be coherently used when you strip it of its natural purpose, thus he argued many philosophical quandaries were merely language games, such as: "This sentence is false." One could consider the antinatalistic usage of nonexistence as a coherent concept to compare against as a language game in and of itself, especially the asymmetry argument.
I agree with you about opposing antinatalism, but I disagree about individuals suffering to serve egregores such as civilization, humanity, morality, etc.
Imo, all of these are illusions created by cults to hide the sharp knives they are stabbing into you, serving the purposes of the group rather than yours.
 
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Your antinatalistic conclusion is only sensible if you presuppose the most extreme form of negative utilitarianism, and grant the elimination of suffering lexical priority — though you would still have to justify the notion that pro-mortalism is the natural extension of such logic, since species-wide suicide could potentially cause great levels of suffering in and of itself. There is no logic explained behind how we can meaningfully measure suffering, let alone aggregate it across the phenomenological experiences of persons on Earth.

Not to mention you would still have to justify the lexical priority of the negation of suffering, which is highly dubious, since suffering itself requires some criteria; what is suffering? Is there a meaningful difference between suffering with purpose, and suffering meaninglessly? I, for one, would choose to exist even if I knew how miserable my life was going to be, because I do find qualia to be meaningfully valuable. Of course, life may be utterly wretched for us, but it does not necessitate that great suffering will continue to persist for all generations to come, as long as humanity prevails and marches down the path toward human flourishing.

Antinatalism is the epitome of the female mindset, since it is contradictory, selfish, and subverts civilization itself; furthermore, it is impractical, since it could never be properly applied without betraying its own values. Would a theoretical button that eliminates the concept of life be one we ought to press? Perhaps, since it would be a hypothetical scenario inside a vacuum without any unforeseeable consequences, but that is all that can be rationally granted in favor of such a philosophy.

Even the post you cited includes many problematic holes, since most of the arguments made cannot properly address the non-identity problem; even if one were to try to appeal to general suffering that does not require a specific subject, it would not escape this issue, as you are appealing to the consent of a non-existent being; the potentiality of individual consent, which cannot be coherent without an individual. I have seen some antinatalistic philosophers argue that no life is worth starting, but it seemingly fails to solve the issue, since it discusses a subject (life) without a subject — and it leads to repugnant conclusions about people who are already alive, though you seem to have no issue with that. I do believe some of the counterintuitive conclusions that the non-identity problem leads to can be addressed, but the optimal way to do so is with impersonal ethics; consent cannot be coherent within impersonal ethics. I suppose you could appeal to the notion that any life being brought to existence necessitates suffering, but the problem is that any level of suffering alone does not immediately justify nonexistence. It would certainly be immoral to conceive a child in extremely bad circumstances, in which basic necessities cannot be met, but as long as the person's needs are met — a meaningful life could be lived.

Ironically, this entire philosophy is antithetical to NU in the public space, since antinatalism is strongly correlated with existential nihilism — I would even say it necessitates it, in a sense. People who are nihilistic are more likely to be depressed, lead meaningless lives, and generally suffer more because of their bleak worldview; the irony is that the framework which preaches the elimination of suffering causes greater suffering to already present moral agents.

An anti-natalist is only able to make this argument because existence allows him to. In making this argument, it is ironic that he turns against the very thing that made it possible in the first place for him to make this argument. In general, life is fundamentally what allows such arguments and the meaningful discussion about the "purpose of life" possible — hence every antinatalistic argument suffers from a sort of supervenience. It is then suspicious to apply the attributes of meaning, purpose pleasure and pain to life itself. Life stands above these human ideas which should apply only to entities within life. If I remember correctly, while in a different context, Wittgenstein has made a similar argument about language itself: it cannot be coherently used when you strip it of its natural purpose, thus he argued many philosophical quandaries were merely language games, such as: "This sentence is false." One could consider the antinatalistic usage of nonexistence as a coherent concept to compare against as a language game in and of itself, especially the asymmetry argument.
Dnr
 
Because you believe in antinatalism and bring it up for debate, you have a responsibility to read it.
I don't have an obligation to do absolutely anything ever in a life I didn't even choose to be born in. I'll do and think whatever I want, fuck you niggers!
 
I don't have an obligation to do absolutely anything ever in a life I didn't even choose to be born in. I'll do and think whatever I want, fuck you niggers!
Good for you. It's best if you don't argue anymore.
 
I agree with you about opposing anti-life ideology, but I disagree about individuals suffering to serve egregores such as civilization, humanity, morality, etc.
In my opinion, all of these are illusions created by sects to hide the sharp knives they are stabbing into you, serving the purposes of the group rather than yours.
I don't think I would be able to meaningfully discuss what we ought to do if I didn't believe in normative realism — specifically that there exists mind-independent moral truth that we ought to strive for, a virtuous character is valuable, and that human flourishing is the rational end goal of this moral reality. The purpose of the group is ultimately my own purpose, which is exactly why I criticize the behavior of women for example; I would not be able to do that if all I cared about was myself, since my framework would be self-undermining. Though you are correct that a good portion of morality in modern society is indeed an illusion, or an outright insult to morality itself; for example, abortion, which many progressivists believe is acceptable and even good, but is unacceptable within any coherent framework.
 
I don't think I would be able to meaningfully discuss what we ought to do if I didn't believe in normative realism — specifically that there exists mind-independent moral truth that we ought to strive for, a virtuous character is valuable, and that human flourishing is the rational end goal of this moral reality. The purpose of the group is ultimately my own purpose, which is exactly why I criticize the behavior of women for example; I would not be able to do that if all I cared about was myself, since my framework would be self-undermining. Though you are correct that a good portion of morality in modern society is indeed an illusion, or an outright insult to morality itself; for example, abortion, which many progressivists believe is acceptable and even good, but is unacceptable within any coherent framework.
Ah, fair. Every group of people is a cult; choose the cult that suits you. I'd be happy if you truly knew what you were choosing.

But I guess they're just another form of self-deception. Maybe the group will need incels.... go ahead and be the pioneer, stepping on bombs with an AK-47, bro
 
Honestly, most ideologies are retarded.


Think of it like this: every group of people is a cult. Law, morality, God... all refer to the same rules of the cult. Most likely, you incels are at the bottom of that cult and have restricted rights. Therefore, do not let the cult choose you. Instead, choose a cult that serves your reproductive goals. If you have no potential to achieve reproductive goals in that cult, you should leave. Also, grinding for money to pay for surrogacy is an option. You can use eugenics and hope for a superior child.

Every cult I know tries to trick you and use you for the group's goals. Stay awake, guys.
Correct I have actually experienced this firsthand.

Leftist spaces are especially hypocritical because they claim "materialism" as a philosophy yet treat inceldom as the result of bad consciousness.
 
Correct I have actually experienced this firsthand.

Leftist spaces are especially hypocritical because they claim "materialism" as a philosophy yet treat inceldom as the result of bad consciousness.
inceldom is about rationalism, perhaps they can only defeat us with straw man arguments and typical fallacies.

I don't agree with the accusation of hypocrisy much because they belong to a different cult with rules against other cults, typically inceldom. Hypocrisy is just another name synonymous with enemy or heretic.
 
inceldom is about rationalism, perhaps they can only defeat us with straw man arguments and typical fallacies.

I don't agree with the accusation of hypocrisy much because they belong to a different cult with rules against other cults, typically inceldom. Hypocrisy is just another name synonymous with enemy or heretic.
Not every "cult" is equal IMO. Inceldom is closer to nihilism which implies lack of belief or hope. If you don't have principles at all you can't really be a hypocrite. If you claim to be a materialist yet switch logic with topics that make you uncomfortable, you're a hypocrite
 
Actually, .is is also a cult. Every group of people is a cult.
This is true and the reason why inherently not all cults or ideologies are bad for incels,u just have to navigate which one brings the most benefit(hard task even high iq incels can fail) aka purpose/copes/opportunity.
 
Not every "cult" is equal IMO. Inceldom is closer to nihilism which implies lack of belief or hope. If you don't have principles at all you can't really be a hypocrite. If you claim to be a materialist yet switch logic with topics that make you uncomfortable, you're a hypocrite
Come on, I'm not a heretic, bro. Inceldom is actually a cult and has the typical principles of a cult, such as hating foid, complaining, clinging to despair, or idolizing trucel... these are the egregores of the inceldom cult. You can't demand justice for a group you don't belong to. Please live in reality...
 

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