Southern Italians & Greeks Are White

[DarkStar]

To begin with, the Mediterranean sea has served as a barrier between the various populations located on it:

In historical times, there have been three major invasions of South Eastern Europe from the direction of the Near East but no evidence of major migratory events and gene flow. The Persians dominated South Western Asia in the fifth century BC: They established satrapies in Asia Minor and invaded Europe, but they were stopped by the Greeks (32). The Arabs attempted multiple invasions during the seventh and eighth centuries AD, but they were stopped by the Byzantines (33). An Arab tribe originating from Andalusia established in Crete a pirate state in the ninth century, but they were exterminated by the Byzantines 140 y later, and they left no traces of settlement in the island other than the name of their seat of power in the town of Chandax (33). The Turks invaded Asia Minor starting the 11th century and occupied the Balkans in the subsequent three centuries, but any Turks and converts to Islam left from Greek territories with the population exchanges that took place in the 20th century (34); the origin of the Turkish tribes was the central Asia. Seljuk Turks settled in Anatolia in the 12th century AD; however, the Anatolian Cappadocians we included in this study belong to the population that have kept the religion and the language of the pre-Seljuk Cappadocians and, therefore, most likely carry the genetic makeup of the ancient Anatolians. The only important gene flows from Near East to Europe must have occurred in prehistoric times and, as genetic evidence suggests, the most prominent migrations should have occurred during the Neolithic.

Maritime route of colonization of Europe - PMC

The question of colonization of Europe by Neolithic people of the Near East and their contribution to the farming economy of Europe has been addressed with extensive archaeological studies and many genetic investigations of extant European and Near ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The Neolithic populations, which colonized Europe approximately 9,000 y ago, presumably migrated from Near East to Anatolia and from there to Central Europe through Thrace and the Balkans. An alternative route would have been island hopping across the Southern European coast. To test this hypothesis, we analyzed genome-wide DNA polymorphisms on populations bordering the Mediterranean coast and from Anatolia and mainland Europe. We observe a striking structure correlating genes with geography around the Mediterranean Sea with characteristic east to west clines of gene flow. Using population network analysis, we also find that the gene flow from Anatolia to Europe was through Dodecanese, Crete, and the Southern European coast, compatible with the hypothesis that a maritime coastal route was mainly used for the migration of Neolithic farmers to Europe.

PNAS

Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS), a peer reviewed journal of the National Academy of Sciences (NAS) - an authoritative source of high-impact, original research that broadly spans the biological, physical, and social sciences.

www.pnas.org

On PCA charts, although they are noticeably drifted from other Europeans, they still fall within the general cluster for Europe:

(Jews plot intermediary due to mixing)

FST wise they also are closest to other Europeans:

They also plot closely to the ancient Latini Romans & Mycenaean-Minoan Greeks

They also were always considered as White historically:


View: https://x.com/cremieuxrecueil/status/1952523100882682239

As even Prof. Roediger himself recognizes, naturalization laws throughout this period specified that citizenship was open to “free white persons,” and no one ever argued that “Guineas” and “Bohunks” were unqualified. Other races were. In 1922, the Supreme Court ruled that Japanese could not naturalize because they were not white. The next year, a subcontinental Indian came before the court, claiming he was “Caucasian,” and therefore eligible. In earlier cases, the court had sought expert testimony from anthropologists as to who was white, but in the Thind case, the justices ruled that it was simple common sense not to consider Indians white. New immigrants from Europe were unfailingly admitted to citizenship.

The census bureau during this period counted new immigrants the same way. It classified the first generation and their children as “foreign-born white,” but counted the third generation simply as white. This reflected both scholarly and popular assumptions. As a 1932 study by Donald Young called American Minority People noted of the new immigrant, it was “dimly realized that in a few generations he will be absorbed into the total white population.” Young went on to say that the “white immigrant [is] patently handicapped by foreign language and tradition” but the “Negro now is looked on as more of a biological problem.”

The prominent sociologist Henry Pratt Fairchild (1880–1956), whom the author calls “racist” for his views of non-whites, took a haughty but different view of the southern or central European: “If he proves himself a man and . . . acquires wealth and cleans himself up — very well, we might receive him in a generation or two. But at present he is far beneath us and the burden of proof rests with him.” Unlettered aliens would have to prove they could become American, and as Prof. Roediger notes, even the Italians found that if they renounced their foreign habits they were accepted. By 1920, scholars were generally predicting that European ethnics would assimilate. They were making no such predictions about blacks.

How the White Ethnics Assimilated - American Renaissance

Race deniers get in a muddle again.

www.amren.com

All of this said, however, Ed Peterson's remarks contained more than a kernel of truth. In the end, Italians' many perceived racial inadequacies aside, they were still largely accepted as white by the widest variety of people and institutions—naturalization laws and courts, the U.S. census, race science, anti-immigrant racialisms, newspapers, unions, employers, neighbors, realtors, settlement houses, politicians, and political parties. This widespread acceptance was reflected most concretely in Italians' ability to naturalize as U.S. citizens, apply for certain jobs, live in certain neighborhoods, marry certain partners, and patronize certain movie theaters, restaurants, saloons, hospitals, summer camps, parks, beaches, and settlement houses. In so many of these situations, as Peterson and the Defender well recognized, one color line existed separating "whites" from the "colored races"—groups such as "Negroes," "Orientals," and sometimes "Mexicans." And from the moment they arrived in Chicago—and forever after—Italians were consistently and unambiguously placed on the side of the former. If Italians were racially undesirable in the eyes of many Americans, they were white just the same.

They were so securely white, in fact, that Italians themselves rarely had to aggressively assert the point. Indeed, not until World War II did many Italians identify openly and mobilize politically as white. After the early years of migration and settlement, when Italy remained merely an abstraction to many newcomers, their strongest allegiance was to the Italian race, not the white one. Indeed, one of the central concerns of this book is to understand how Italianita', as both a racial and national consciousness, came to occupy such a central part of many Italians' self-understandings. For much of the turn-of-the-century and interwar years, then, Italians were white on arrival not so much because of the way they viewed themselves, but because of the way others viewed and treated them.

When it comes to phenos/appearance, many do have distinct European ones such as Gracile Med, Dinaro-Med, Dinarid, West alpinid, Pontid or some other mix of it. Some do have a Pseudo look to MENAs or have MENA phenos such as Trans-Med or Armenid.

 

[Lonely Slav]

Truthnuke. That "Italians/Greeks aren't white" shill work is just a cope made up by chronically online autists that nobody takes seriously IRL.

Truth is, all European peoples are white, and Greeks and Italians in particular have some of the richest histories and contrast for what their ancestors achieved during antiquity, and to a lesser but still notable extent in the eras that followed. Their ancestors chose to divide the world between the Bosphorus (and later the Dardanelles) and identify themselves with their neighboring barbarians of Dacia, Illyria, Gaul, etc. and not with the Lycians, Lydians, etc. for a reason.

 

[DarkStar]

Truthnuke. That "Italians/Greeks aren't white" shill work is just a cope made up by chronically online autists that nobody takes seriously IRL.

It's always:
-Leftists trying to claim race "isn't real"
-Ethnoids, usually Curries or Sands, trying to gain some prox. to Whites or drag them down
-Schizo-tier Nordicists

Truth is, all European peoples are white,

Correct. You do get some who don't fit the stereotypical criteria but genetically yes they are native to it

 

[DarkStar]

@PersonalityChad

 

[PersonalityChad]

@PersonalityChad

Good summary. It should be quite obvious at this point but there are still racebaiters who claim otherwise

 

[blackpillednigga]

the X group isn't white thing is usually just a meme to troll white nats or start conflicts by bored niggas with nothing else to do. I dont think anyone unironically believes they arent white

 

[retardedzoomer88]

based and high iq post

 

[Lonely Slav]

It's always:
-Leftists trying to claim race "isn't real"
-Ethnoids, usually Curries or Sands, trying to gain some prox. to Whites or drag them down
-Schizo-tier Nordicists

Ngl, it would be hilarious if these types tried to claim that, say, the Spanish or Portuguese Colonial Empires were "non-white," when leftists still whine about them and use them as textbook examples to justify white guilt which is something they would never do for genuinely non-white empires .

 

[Antorian]

Common sense.

Inter-white rivalries aside, they are the same race.
Same goes for the black race, the asian race, the indian race, the negrito race, the jewish race, the aborigenal race and the native american race

 

[theanty]

-Ethnoids, usually Curries or Sands, trying to gain some prox. to Whites or drag them down

 

[DarkStar]

the X group isn't white thing is usually just a meme to troll white nats or start conflicts by bored niggas with nothing else to do. I dont think anyone unironically believes they arent white

It's also done by race-deniers to deconstruct the validity race has in genetics, biology, etc. and how ethnicities basically only exist due to race existing as a broader concept. On these spaces, it's done to "assert" proximity to Whites mainly on .org or by ethnics projecting

There are a lot who do it to troll or bait, but then some genuinely do believe it from how they seem to argue it or word it. These also are the same types who think White=tall, blonde or light hair, blue eyes, pale skin, etc.

It's also because Meds are overrepresented in WN stuff.

Ngl, it would be hilarious if these types tried to claim that, say, the Spanish or Portuguese Colonial Empires were "non-white," when leftists still whine about them and use them as textbook examples to justify white guilt which is something they would never do for genuinely non-white empires .

Yeah jfl that dismantles the narrative easily

They would never say "well they aren't White so they actually did nothing wrong and don't deserve it and were also oppressed like we were yada yada yada"

Spanish also called themselves "Blancos" iirc which means "White"

Common sense.

Inter-white rivalries aside, they are the same race.

They're a sub-race of a broader one

Same goes for the black race, the asian race, the indian race, the negrito race, the jewish race, the aborigenal race and the native american race

Europeans are funnily enough closer to each other than other racial subgroups are in other races

 

[DarkStar]

Good summary. It should be quite obvious at this point but there are still racebaiters who claim otherwise

Some are probably just trolling or doing it for reactions but i think a lot genuinely believe such

 

[DarkStar]

@Castaway @Hoodpreet

 

[ZX888]

To begin with, the Mediterranean sea has served as a barrier between the various populations located on it:

Maritime route of colonization of Europe - PMC

The question of colonization of Europe by Neolithic people of the Near East and their contribution to the farming economy of Europe has been addressed with extensive archaeological studies and many genetic investigations of extant European and Near ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

PNAS

Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS), a peer reviewed journal of the National Academy of Sciences (NAS) - an authoritative source of high-impact, original research that broadly spans the biological, physical, and social sciences.

www.pnas.org

On PCA charts, although they are noticeably drifted from other Europeans, they still fall within the general cluster for Europe:

View attachment 1537342View attachment 1537343
(Jews plot intermediary due to mixing)

FST wise they also are closest to other Europeans:

View attachment 1537346View attachment 1537347View attachment 1537352

They also plot closely to the ancient Latini Romans & Mycenaean-Minoan Greeks


View attachment 1537354View attachment 1537356
View attachment 1537356View attachment 1537357

They also were always considered as White historically:


View: https://x.com/cremieuxrecueil/status/1952523100882682239

How the White Ethnics Assimilated - American Renaissance

Race deniers get in a muddle again.

www.amren.com

When it comes to phenos/appearance, many do have distinct European ones such as Gracile Med, Dinaro-Med, Dinarid, West alpinid, Pontid or some other mix of it. Some do have a Pseudo look to MENAs or have MENA phenos such as Trans-Med or Armenid.

Based

 

[Thaway]

Not really lol

 

[ImperialArk]

What is the point of this? You plan to pull this data sheet out when ppl call you a wop?

 

[SilentShadow]

First guy is white the other isn't imo

 

[DarkStar]

What is the point of this?

To further explain how race is determined by genes, so basically race realism

You plan to pull this data sheet out when ppl call you a wop?

Never been called that, i’m around 1/4th Italic

 

[DarkStar]

First guy is white the other isn't imo
View attachment 1537669
View attachment 1537670

First looks like your stereotypical one just HTNified ofc.

Second, i’d say it’s mainly the nose & eye area that makes him look not stereotypically white though. He doesn’t really look sand though imo, just “not stereotypically white” if that makes sense. So ig ambiguous

 

[AutistSupremacist]

Common sense.

Inter-white rivalries aside, they are the same race.
Same goes for the black race, the asian race, the indian race, the negrito race, the jewish race, the aborigenal race and the native american race

 

[vic624]

Greeks and other Southern Euros have exposure to genetic drift not seen in other parts of Europe. Thalassemia is an adaptation to malaria. They also have more exposure soil-transmitted helminths, aka worms. If your genetics were adapting to worms and malaria that's a different genetic history than the colder parts of Europe.

 

[DarkStar]

Greeks and other Southern Euros have exposure to genetic drift not seen in other parts of Europe. Thalassemia is an adaptation to malaria. They also have more exposure soil-transmitted helminths, aka worms. If your genetics were adapting to worms and malaria that's a different genetic history than the colder parts of Europe.
View attachment 1537851View attachment 1537852

Nothing to do much with ancestral population groups they descend from

Not really lol

I agree that when it comes to SMV people think of Nordic phenotypes most in terms of “White” as opposed to some Alpinid or Gracile Med or Baltid but from a genetic/race realist POV they descend from the same groups

 

[vic624]

Nothing to do much with ancestral population groups they descend from

I agree that when it comes to SMV people think of Nordic phenotypes most in terms of “White” as opposed to some Alpinid or Gracile Med or Baltid but from a genetic/race realist POV they descend from the same groups

The problem is we know there are mongrel border groups, so the question becomes where does the spectrum become a new category. In physical anthropology, East Africans have caucasian skull shape. As much as race concerned people hate it, broad strokes of the world map makes close enough approximations within the three main skull categories

• between extreme Northwest Europe to deep south Eurasia the caucasian spectrum goes from albino to curry gradually
• between Japan and Southeast Asia there's a predictable trend of eye size and skin tone among mongoloid skulls
• Africa becomes more uniformly negroid moving more equatorial while Northern Sudanese and Berbers call themselves white

Greeks and Italians in Europe are European and white in cultural terms, due to Western culture and present economic, defense entanglement. Move those groups to mixed locales like North America and they will tell you they do not cluster with the Anglo-Saxons. Genetics has shown Jews have some ancestry from ancient Levant populations, but that doesn't make an German-American Jew and and Ethiopian Jew the same group unless seeking to make that category.

 

[Hoodpreet]

broad strokes of the world map makes close enough approximations within the three main skull categories

Nobody uses the skull categories anymore. We have ancestry testing and fst distance testing now. Anthropologists and population geneticists themselves divide the world's population into "genetic macro-populations," but hesitate to equate this to races for obvious reasons

 

[vic624]

Nobody uses the skull categories anymore.

Still used by investigators who don't have access to the genetics, which is the same starting point as strangers meeting. Yes, now there's tech to approximate a face off DNA by companies like Parabon NanoLabs but when there's just a skull, like just a face, knowledge of the main groups still helps narrow down breadth of possibilities. Millions of curries are of the type that could walk unnoticed from Dehli to Istanbul. Half a curry could pass in Southern Europe. Maybe 1/8th curry could still pass as Northern Europen. The extent to which "white" is a synonym for pure, the places in Europe that have never been under non-European foreign occupation are the most white. Poland has people who clain ancestry from Mongol nobility.

 

[DarkStar]

Still used by investigators who don't have access to the genetics, which is the same starting point as strangers meeting. Yes, now there's tech to approximate a face off DNA by companies like Parabon NanoLabs but when there's just a skull, like just a face, knowledge of the main groups still helps narrow down breadth of possibilities. Millions of curries are of the type that could walk unnoticed from Dehli to Istanbul. Half a curry could pass in Southern Europe. Maybe 1/8th curry could still pass as Northern Europen. The extent to which "white" is a synonym for pure, the places in Europe that have never been under non-European foreign occupation are the most white. Poland has people who clain ancestry from Mongol nobility.

Won’t bother because you just wrote a wall of retardation

 

[Julius1]

Still used by investigators who don't have access to the genetics, which is the same starting point as strangers meeting. Yes, now there's tech to approximate a face off DNA by companies like Parabon NanoLabs but when there's just a skull, like just a face, knowledge of the main groups still helps narrow down breadth of possibilities. Millions of curries are of the type that could walk unnoticed from Dehli to Istanbul. Half a curry could pass in Southern Europe. Maybe 1/8th curry could still pass as Northern Europen. The extent to which "white" is a synonym for pure, the places in Europe that have never been under non-European foreign occupation are the most white. Poland has people who clain ancestry from Mongol nobility.

Just have European phenotype brah. It ain't that deep

 

[Thaway]

I agree that when it comes to SMV people think of Nordic phenotypes most in terms of “White” as opposed to some Alpinid or Gracile Med or Baltid but from a genetic/race realist POV they descend from the same groups

Okay, i agree there is a point to be made for that. On the other hand, what does it matter if it effectively doesn't get them laid or most people don't see it that way. You just get these bizarre "muh whiteness" low tier off shelf white meds and slavs trying to outcompete eachother in their supposed whiteness, stormfront is full of those cringelords. When in reality, like you said, their looks and racial types are not really perceived as white or valuable for that matter and it won't get them laid.

I'm white but at the same time i'm mostly slavic and have a typical slav pheno. I don't look like the guy that you see working in a bank or owning a nice yacht, i'm the guy that fits into a warehouse night shift.

 

[Hoodpreet]

Okay, i agree there is a point to be made for that. On the other hand, what does it matter if it effectively doesn't get them laid or most people don't see it that way. You just get these bizarre "muh whiteness" low tier off shelf white meds and slavs trying to outcompete eachother in their supposed whiteness, stormfront is full of those cringelords. When in reality, like you said, their looks and racial types are not really perceived as white or valuable for that matter and it won't get them laid.

I'm white but at the same time i'm mostly slavic and have a typical slav pheno. I don't look like the guy that you see working in a bank or owning a nice yacht, i'm the guy that fits into a warehouse night shift.

The reason people emphasize race realism even if "JBW" only applies to Nords is mainly for political reasons. Acknowledging that geographically close populations with common ancestry genetically cluster together, and that IQ and temperament are highly heritable (40-60%) is important for understanding that "foreigner integration" only works when the foreigners in question are genetically similar enough.

Mainstream "far right" parties love to blame kulcha this, kulcha that instead of race/genes, as if the problems presented by multiracialism are fixable under an egalitarian framework (when they obviously are not)

 

[DarkStar]

Okay, i agree there is a point to be made for that.

You understand, it would seem

It's either everyone in Europe is basically the same and has the same SMV due to being part of the same meta-race or if you aren't a Nordic-pheno Anglo-Germanic-Scandinavian you're not White.

On the other hand, what does it matter if it effectively doesn't get them laid or most people don't see it that way.

disregarding SMV, it does matter since it relates to race realism which amounts to the "building blocks" for nation-states.

You just get these bizarre "muh whiteness" low tier off shelf white meds and slavs trying to outcompete eachother in their supposed whiteness,

I think I saw you once say that Meds are more White than Slavs, as per your definition, which I agree with.

Yet the curroids or other actual "ethnics" on here who obsess over hair-eye coloring chimp at this.

stormfront is full of those cringelords.

On X or other spaces for RW/WN discussion, i've never seen anyone at all mention Stormfront

When in reality, like you said, their looks and racial types are not really perceived as white or valuable for that matter and it won't get them laid.

They're still types classified as White, even back in the 19th-20th century. But Nordic is the epitome of whiteness ofc

 

[Thaway]

I think I saw you once say that Meds are more White than Slavs, as per your definition, which I agree with.

I think especially in the light of culture and nation building, as you mentioned, they are absolutely are. The question really begs wether the elements in those med nations like the early greeks and romans were really ethnically meds or rather a relatively small elite of "outsiders" so to speak. Because besides the northern part of italy, which basically settled by a mix of celto-germanics (Lombards, Bavarian groups and earlier celtic settlement in the alpine region ...ect ) since the early middle ages onwards, the rest of the country is a pretty bad shithole compared to actual cultured and orderly places. The same goes for modern day greece and spain (which only really flourished under habsburg rule and was only saved by frankish intervention).

Very similar things can be said about slav countries. The ones that have been and are doing the best are the ones with the most german input, in case of russia rather a finnic and scandinavian. Adding to that is that without constant foreign aid and the massive amount of stolen industry they received they would be on the level of any other slav shithole really.

There is an interesting concept proposed by Oswald Spengler, that there are very specific elements in a popualtion that have "overlordly" genes so to speak that are the driving force and creators of culture which then leads to civilization. Once these elements are gone only the lowly dumb lower classes (Fellachen, named after the low iq primitive populations in egypt) are left and the civilization is fundamentally dead. It somewhat mirrors what the natsocs (and many others) believed to be an arian element.

Culture is always born out of genetics, as you also mentioned. No different than any other animals instincts, it's a part of a human's nature.

 

[Blackpill Monk]

It's always:
-Leftists trying to claim race "isn't real"
-Ethnoids, usually Curries or Sands, trying to gain some prox. to Whites or drag them down
-Schizo-tier Nordicists

I can understand curries and sands calling Italian and Greek as non whites. But why Nordicist also consider them as non-white. Greek and Italian (Romans) are the one who created the Western white civilization

 

[Blackpill Monk]

the X group isn't white thing is usually just a meme to troll white nats or start conflicts by bored niggas with nothing else to do. I dont think anyone unironically believes they arent white

It's spread by SJW brown parasites like you who thrives on western land

 

[Blackpill Monk]

@The Reaver @Morphine @Fevet

 

[Blackpill Monk]

First looks like your stereotypical one just HTNified ofc.

Second, i’d say it’s mainly the nose & eye area that makes him look not stereotypically white though. He doesn’t really look sand though imo, just “not stereotypically white” if that makes sense. So ig ambiguous

Bro what your honest view about Central Asians

 

[Blackpill Monk]

Millions of curries are of the type that could walk unnoticed from Dehli to Istanbul. Half a curry could pass in Southern Europe. Maybe 1/8th curry could still pass as Northern Europen. The extent to which "white" is a synonym for pure, the places in Europe that have never been under non-European foreign occupation are the most white. Poland has people who clain ancestry from Mongol nobility.

Saaaaaaaaaaaar

 

[Uninvited]

Med girls are better than Anglo girls for the most part.

 

[Rapemaxxer]

@The Reaver @Morphine @Fevet

Yes cuck you called?

 

[Rapemaxxer]

Med girls are better than Anglo girls for the most part.

Trve they have more colour to them. Pale northerners feel rather dead by comparison.

 

[Rapemaxxer]

Bro what your honest view about Central Asians

"Saar what is your opinion on this"

 

[hatepilledandrich]

"Saar what is your opinion on this"

 

[blackpillednigga]

It's spread by SJW brown parasites like you who thrives on western land

"saar you are a brown parasite, unlike me who is good pajeet"

 

[Incel_Doomer]

If your country touches the Mediterranean Sea it is brown.

No further discussion is required.

Thank you and good day.

 

[blackpillednigga]

If your country touches the Mediterranean Sea it is brown.

No further discussion is required.

Thank you and good day.

bro. you're gonna start WW3 here again

 

[DarkStar]

@The Reaver @Morphine @Fevet

why did you tag them?

"saar you are a brown parasite, unlike me who is good pajeet"

View attachment 1538891

I mean it's almost always leftists/SJWs against the idea of race or curries who do it

He also lives in Curryland

I don't have problems w/ curryland other than there's so many of them spilling into Japan & White lands, plus they pollute the Earth wayyyyyy more than the West does.

Bro what your honest view about Central Asians

I've never met any irl, but i've heard they're an issue in Russia and thugs there

They're also the reason Turkey exists

Med girls are better than Anglo girls for the most part.

Eh I disagree

I can understand curries and sands calling Italian and Greek as non whites.

Why?

I think especially in the light of culture and nation building, as you mentioned, they are absolutely are. The question really begs wether the elements in those med nations like the early greeks and romans were really ethnically meds or rather a relatively small elite of "outsiders" so to speak.

They were, check some of the maps I shared above(red=closer)

Mycenaeans & Minoans were EEF dominant

Etruscans were mostly EEF as well, I think the Latini were more Steppe-heavy but not dominant in it.

Many Roman emperors and Greeks had phenos we still find there such as Dinarid, Alpinid, Mediterranid, etc.

If they had lighter hair-eyes, it was likely relative to the rest of the population(ie, lighter brown shades of hair or a darker green which many still have) or just due to better genes had it.

Because besides the northern part of italy, which basically settled by a mix of celto-germanics (Lombards, Bavarian groups and earlier celtic settlement in the alpine region ...ect ) since the early middle ages onwards,

North Italians are the closest to Romans, they do have some Lombard in them as you mentioned but they're majority still close to the Romans & EEF dominant.

the rest of the country is a pretty bad shithole compared to actual cultured and orderly places.

It's still better than the majority of non-European places at least

There is an interesting concept proposed by Oswald Spengler, that there are very specific elements in a popualtion that have "overlordly" genes so to speak that are the driving force and creators of culture which then leads to civilization. Once these elements are gone only the lowly dumb lower classes (Fellachen, named after the low iq primitive populations in egypt) are left and the civilization is fundamentally dead. It somewhat mirrors what the natsocs (and many others) believed to be an arian element.

Egypt wasn't "White" or "Nordic"
Testing shows they were MENA, just without Nigger & more ANF(found in Europe so closer)

Some of the dynasties descended from Roman or Greek rulers which they thrived under better

Nowadays, Egyptians have tons of Nigger and other North African in them so the NSDAP & others did have a point but to claim Egyptians were "European/Nordic" or whatever is fallacious.

Culture is always born out of genetics, as you also mentioned. No different than any other animals instincts, it's a part of a human's nature.

You get it, I will never get the mental gymnastics people do about it on here tbh.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc8DWmOX5Ac


This guy sums it up nicely

And ofc for the White in thumbnail it's a Nordic, guess we're both right in a way.

 

[DarkStar]

bro. you're gonna start WW3 here again

It's ironic to go saying that when you're a Russian who have Asiatic in them(3-5%) and are by a lot of metrics seen as "less white" or "not really European"

By this logic even the French are or Croats.

 

[jartiyer1]

First looks like your stereotypical one just HTNified ofc.

Second, i’d say it’s mainly the nose & eye area that makes him look not stereotypically white though. He doesn’t really look sand though imo, just “not stereotypically white” if that makes sense. So ig ambiguous

copium, Bonucci is no different from the Levant Arabs

It's absurd to say that places like Southern Italy and Greece were entirely non-white, but that doesn't change the fact that they had significant non-white populations. Trying to make a brownoid Italian white damages white race.

 

[Lonely Slav]

I think especially in the light of culture and nation building, as you mentioned, they are absolutely are. The question really begs wether the elements in those med nations like the early greeks and romans were really ethnically meds or rather a relatively small elite of "outsiders" so to speak.

They were native Mediterranean peoples.

Ancient Greece developed from the Mycenaeans, who were shaped by Minoan Crete and spoke an early form of Greek. They descended partly from Proto-Greek groups with Steppe (Yamnaya/Catacomb) ancestry.

Rome developed from the Latins, Sabines, and Etruscans of central Italy. The Latins/Sabines were Italics with some Steppe (descended from Yamnaya/Catacomb-type cultures as well) ancestry. The Etruscans were a non-Indo-European people native to the region.

Because besides the northern part of italy, which basically settled by a mix of celto-germanics (Lombards, Bavarian groups and earlier celtic settlement in the alpine region ...ect ) since the early middle ages onwards, the rest of the country is a pretty bad shithole compared to actual cultured and orderly places.

Pretty facetious statement. Southern Italy has had internal problems due to a variety of factors, e.g., industry concentrated in the north, meaning it was far easier for the economy to strengthen the already existing industry in the north rather than incentivate the birth of other local industries, et simila.

There was the Alps and the Po Valley that gave the North hydroelectric power, and that compensated for the country’s poor coal resources. That in turn made it far easier for the northern economy to grow than to incentivize new industries in the south. Italy is the 8th largest economy, and southern Italy is an important part of it (Southern Italian workers in the North; South Italians actually not being as poor as statistics suggest).

Read more here:

Resources and Industry in the North

In a recent post I showed how Italian geography favors the North when it comes to farming, trade and industry. The latter is a primary sour...

italianthro.blogspot.com

Geography and North-South Disparities

Books like Guns, Germs, and Steel and The Botany of Desire , and discoveries like the impact of infectious disease on IQ and climate shift...

italianthro.blogspot.com

Southern Italy's Economy Underestimated

While it's true that poverty and unemployment are higher in Southern Italy than in the more industrialized North , the extent of these dispa...

italianthro.blogspot.com

Not to mention the rich antiquity architecture and historic cityscapes found throughout the south:

 

[DarkStar]

copium, Bonucci is no different from the Levant Arabs

Huh? He looks very different

Incomparable

It's absurd to say that places like Southern Italy and Greece were entirely non-white,

Agreeed

but that doesn't change the fact that they had significant non-white populations.

Incorrect

Look at the graphs, they plot close to other Europeans and also the amount of Natufian is low:

And for Turks, they have excess INF+CHG

Trying to make a brownoid Italian white damages white race.

t. turk thinks he can decide

Avi screams of a cuck fetish anyways

Italians were always seen as White

File:Stoddard race map 1920.jpg - Wikimedia Commons

commons.wikimedia.org

"All of this said, however, Ed Peterson's remarks contained more than a kernel of truth. In the end, Italians' many perceived racial inadequacies aside, they were still largely accepted as white by the widest variety of people and institutions—naturalization laws and courts, the U.S. census, race science, anti-immigrant racialisms, newspapers, unions, employers, neighbors, realtors, settlement houses, politicians, and political parties. This widespread acceptance was reflected most concretely in Italians' ability to naturalize as U.S. citizens, apply for certain jobs, live in certain neighborhoods, marry certain partners, and patronize certain movie theaters, restaurants, saloons, hospitals, summer camps, parks, beaches, and settlement houses. In so many of these situations, as Peterson and the Defender well recognized, one color line existed separating "whites" from the "colored races"—groups such as "Negroes," "Orientals," and sometimes "Mexicans." And from the moment they arrived in Chicago—and forever after—Italians were consistently and unambiguously placed on the side of the former. If Italians were racially undesirable in the eyes of many Americans, they were white just the same.

They were so securely white, in fact, that Italians themselves rarely had to aggressively assert the point. Indeed, not until World War II did many Italians identify openly and mobilize politically as white. After the early years of migration and settlement, when Italy remained merely an abstraction to many newcomers, their strongest allegiance was to the Italian race, not the white one. Indeed, one of the central concerns of this book is to understand how Italianita', as both a racial and national consciousness, came to occupy such a central part of many Italians' self-understandings. For much of the turn-of-the-century and interwar years, then, Italians were white on arrival not so much because of the way they viewed themselves, but because of the way others viewed and treated them."

 

[Lonely Slav]

Huh? He looks very different

Incomparable

I can see what @jartiyer1 was implying. Italians are phenotypically heterogeneous and their Anatolia_N + non-Steppe-related CHG/Iran_N is what is responsible for the "Mediterranean" phenotype seen in both populations, IMO.

Together with Minoans and Roman Republicans, this component can be broadly modelled as a Pan-Mediterranean population (constituted by AN and IN/CHG components) with the addition of WHG and Steppe-related ancestry in Roman Republicans.

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.30.454498v1.full.pdf

Their Anatolia_N + CHG/Iran_N definitely comes through in phenotype.

And for Turks, they have excess INF+CHG

As do Southern Italians:

They're mostly Anatolia_N, with extra CHG/Iran_N ancestry (the latter introduced indirectly via EBA migrations), on top of small amounts of WHG and Steppe ancestry. Though It is not they are "Northern European" + "Middle Eastern" as if the two grew up independently of one another and just mixed later to form Southern Europeans, as he implied.

The Natufian isn’t the only "non-European" influence, and most genetic studies don’t even model them using it.