Poland got the message.. now is donating MiG29's to the Ukraine

[WizardofSoda]

I think the US plan is that it will actually be NATO pilots, flown from NATO bases who are going to start going after the Russian encirclement west of Kiev with airstrikes.

But they can paint the planes with the Ukraine flag and if any get shot down say they were flying to drop them off in the Ukraine. And any airstrikes they do say it was the Ukrainian air force.


It is similar to how imo the USA is moving mercenaries in by the thousands. They are 'volunteers' who have been inspired to go and fight to help defend Ukraine.

 

[based_meme]

It is similar to how imo the USA is moving mercenaries in by the thousands. They are 'volunteers' who have been inspired to go and fight to help defend Ukraine.

The open use of mercenaries in this war is exciting, yet setting terrible precedents for future wars.

If I was fighting as a mercenary, I don't know who I'd rather be defeated by, national soldiers or other mercenaries. If I get caught by other mercenaries (unlikely, as they'd probably be kill teams anyway), they can't use me as a bargaining chip, since nobody cares if mercenaries die in war, which means it's a foregone conclusion that I'll be both tortured and summarily killed in a mass grave without a second thought. It would arguably be worse being a POW of national soldiers, since it's personal for them, not business.

 

[Idotms]

ok

 

[WizardofSoda]

The open use of mercenaries in this war is exciting, yet setting terrible precedents for future wars.

If I was fighting as a mercenary, I don't know who I'd rather be defeated by, national soldiers or other mercenaries. If I get caught by other mercenaries (unlikely, as they'd probably be kill teams anyway), they can't use me as a bargaining chip, since nobody cares if mercenaries die in war, which means it's a foregone conclusion that I'll be both tortured and summarily killed in a mass grave without a second thought. It would arguably be worse being a POW of national soldiers, since it's personal for them, not business.

Ya after the 100 years war and the Treaty of Westphalia, Western nations got really hardcore against mercenaries in Europe. But they just seem so useful when you don't want to declare war outright. And when you need fighters in the fight fast

I don't know how mercenaries treat other mercenaries who surrender, it might be like pirates where there is a professional brotherhood arrangement.

In some ways that makes mercenaries good if they know they can't surrender. Thats a problem with regular army troops in many conflicts is if it looks bad they can surrender. Bad thing is mercenaries might flee if it looks bad.

 

[ethniccel1]

I think the US plan is that it will actually be NATO pilots, flown from NATO bases who are going to start going after the Russian encirclement west of Kiev with airstrikes.

But they can paint the planes with the Ukraine flag and if any get shot down say they were flying to drop them off in the Ukraine. And any airstrikes they do say it was the Ukrainian air force.


It is similar to how imo the USA is moving mercenaries in by the thousands. They are 'volunteers' who have been inspired to go and fight to help defend Ukraine.

In other words the USA is now actively parttaking in the war. Because they arm the mercenaries and finance them. In other words they have an army in Ukraine. USA really want to pull us all into WW3. China and other countries wont simply do nothing because they know they will be next so obviously they will attempt some shit like invading Taiwan.
Then dont forget it was China and Russia that funded and armed the decolonisation armies in Africa and Asia plus the USA droped nukes on Japan and slaughtered millions of muslims in the Middle East. There is no way those countries will ever side with NATO, infact I read on the news that Chechyans and Syrians are now fighting for Russia. So anyway those peoples their lands and resources will be used for factories to produce arms and their men will volunteer to fight.

This will get messy. I think NATO and the USA should pull back and back away from this because it will just be too messy.

For all the right nationalist folks out there this looks like it will be a race war , white versus none white . By the way Russians are not considered white at least by Western Europeans. So I supposse the whites versus the none whites to the death.

 

[based_meme]

I don't know how mercenaries treat other mercenaries who surrender, it might be like pirates where there is a professional brotherhood arrangement.

There is no professional code of conduct between each other. The only code is to complete the contract. PMCs are contracted and paid individually, not as a group, even if it's a tight-knit unit that trusts each other. This is to minimize the chances of them turning on each other for greed, and also to save the employer money.

If you get caught, you're as good as dead, because letting you go will mean they could see on the battlefield again in the future. They won't take you in, because they know you and trust you, and they might just not need you.

In some ways that makes mercenaries good if they know they can't surrender. Thats a problem with regular army troops in many conflicts is if it looks bad they can surrender. Bad thing is mercenaries might flee if it looks bad.

Fleeing is not a real concern. Anyone can flee at any time, regardless of who and what they're fighting for. As a merc, your reputation would be finished and nobody would work with you. A team of professionals don't have to think about fleeing, because they would also have a fall back plan for their mission anyway, in the event that things go south.

 

[WizardofSoda]

In other words the USA is now actively parttaking in the war. Because they arm the mercenaries and finance them. In other words they have an army in Ukraine. USA really want to pull us all into WW3. China and other countries wont simply do nothing because they know they will be next so obviously they will attempt some shit like invading Taiwan.
Then dont forget it was China and Russia that funded and armed the decolonisation armies in Africa and Asia plus the USA droped nukes on Japan and slaughtered millions of muslims in the Middle East. There is no way those countries will ever side with NATO, infact I read on the news that Chechyans and Syrians are now fighting for Russia. So anyway those peoples their lands and resources will be used for factories to produce arms and their men will volunteer to fight.

This will get messy. I think NATO and the USA should pull back and back away from this because it will just be too messy.

For all the right nationalist folks out there this looks like it will be a race war , white versus none white . By the way Russians are not considered white at least by Western Europeans. So I supposse the whites versus the none whites to the death.

Ya I know my people the Anglo-Saxons.. we aren't just going to let our plan of taking over the Ukraine go without a serious fight.

Ya i anticipated the Syrians getting involved. The Iranian and Lebanese militias I thought will join too. The Russians are going to need Muslims like the Chechens and these guys who can take hard losses on the ground in the battles to come.

China I'm not sure about for the reasons you say. They know that if the West does take over Russia & co. they are next one day. On the other hand I was thinking China is insanely populous and vast that it might not worry them that much.

China is backing Russia up with technology and economically already as Russia is shifting its resources sales and the Unionpay as an example. So China's role will probably be economic.

The race war does seem like part of it. The USA needs more non-whites ethnics on its side. Like the British Empire had a lot of core storm trooper/mercenaries who were ethnic allies of Britain.

In each place like India, Britain elevated some ethnic groups who then depended on Britain for their position.

 

[WizardofSoda]

There is no professional code of conduct between each other. The only code is to complete the contract. PMCs are contracted and paid individually, not as a group, even if it's a tight-knit unit that trusts each other. This is to minimize the chances of them turning on each other for greed, and also to save the employer money.

If you get caught, you're as good as dead, because letting you go will mean they could see on the battlefield again in the future. They won't take you in, because they know you and trust you, and they might just not need you.


Fleeing is not a real concern. Anyone can flee at any time, regardless of who and what they're fighting for. As a merc, your reputation would be finished and nobody would work with you. A team of professionals don't have to think about fleeing, because they would also have a fall back plan for their mission anyway, in the event that things go south.

Ah smart how they do the contracts. But what about broader contracts like a mercenary corporation managing a larger mission. I guess they have the logic worked out for each type of thing, by learning the hard way over centuries of using mercenaries.

ya I was thinking about that if they let them go then they will return. And mercenaries can't hold prisoners, the most they could do was drop them off to the state involved. A Russian general was saying non-Ukrainians they catch 'will at best be treated as criminals'.

Makes sense about the fleeing, its probably in the mission/contract. Eg.. mercenaries guarding these weapons convoys coming in, if they get under attack when and where to retreat to if they are overwhelmed.

 

[ethniccel1]

Ya I know my people the Anglo-Saxons.. we aren't just going to let our plan of taking over the Ukraine go without a serious fight.

Ya i anticipated the Syrians getting involved. The Iranian and Lebanese militias I thought will join too. The Russians are going to need Muslims like the Chechens and these guys who can take hard losses on the ground in the battles to come.

China I'm not sure about for the reasons you say. They know that if the West does take over Russia & co. they are next one day. On the other hand I was thinking China is insanely populous and vast that it might not worry them that much.

China is backing Russia up with technology and economically already as Russia is shifting its resources sales and the Unionpay as an example. So China's role will probably be economic.

The race war does seem like part of it. The USA needs more non-whites ethnics on its side. Like the British Empire had a lot of core storm trooper/mercenaries who were ethnic allies of Britain.

In each place like India, Britain elevated some ethnic groups who then depended on Britain for their position.

Yeah the Indians always sided with Britain in all their major wars. Ghandi worked for the British medics in the Boer Wars. Do you think the Indians will side with the West on this one?

 

[CrackingYs]

Check the news, the US is saying it's not happening. It was all a hoax. They aren't giving jets. I think NATO is pretty happy to let this war drag on for months.

 

[grondilu]

I think NATO is pretty happy to let this war drag on for months.

Could be true.

 

[solblue]

Check the news, the US is saying it's not happening. It was all a hoax. They aren't giving jets. I think NATO is pretty happy to let this war drag on for months.

Yep, Pentagon called the transfer “untenable”. They want the war to drag on to damage Russia even if that means a greater loss of life and damaging their own citizens with high commodities prices and an eventual recession. I imagine the US will probably bow out when the midterms come up in November because of inflation, however, I can’t be certain since Republicans are no peaceniks themselves. They might just use inflation to bludgeon the Dems and then keep up inflation anyways.

 

[RandomGuy]

UPDATE: US Rejects Polish Plan for Giving Mig-29 Fighter Jets to Ukraine​

 

[based_meme]

ya I was thinking about that if they let them go then they will return. And mercenaries can't hold prisoners, the most they could do was drop them off to the state involved. A Russian general was saying non-Ukrainians they catch 'will at best be treated as criminals'.

Site and personnel security (defensive operations) is much different than offensive operations (patrols, S&D etc.). I doubt the mercenaries protecting people, buildings and assets will receive the kind of harsh treats that Russian general is alluding to than those directly engaging with his forces.

 

[WizardofSoda]

Check the news, the US is saying it's not happening. It was all a hoax. They aren't giving jets. I think NATO is pretty happy to let this war drag on for months.

Crazy how this crazy story keeps evolving. One thing is as the situation is changing on the ground in the Ukraine it changes what decisions are. Eg.. how desperate they are to try this or that.