People who advocate for fully secular governments in Muslim countries are dumb

[Pikacel]

Something born-Muslim atheist/agnostics are known to do and it’s emotional bs

Why would a nearly 100% Muslim population accept a secular government

Are you retarded

This is why US and Soviet intervention failed, trying to force secularism on conservative Muslim populations is beyond arrogance. People BELIEVE THEIR RELIGION.

Just like atheists believe that there’s no God, Christians believe their religion and Muslims also believe their religion.

This is a consequence of assuming everyone is an atheist and there’s some top-down religious cabal that oppresses them. Basically inserting 21st century Western liberal ideas where they don’t belong.

Same thing Jap writers do where they make western characters eat bentos and bow like the Japanese

And atheism is a religious belief, atheists are followers just like anyone else

 

[Undervalued]

The Muslim World is extremely conformist (this should not be conflated with law-abidingness). Religiosity can and should be suppressed.

A modern state is a secular state. A modern state preserves its energy for policy making and maintaining order.


Very good case study of what happens as a result of deviating from these principles:

 

[GobidMujahid]

The Muslim World is extremely conformist (this should not be conflated with law-abidingness). Religiosity can and should be suppressed.

A modern state is a secular state. A modern state preserves its energy for policy making and maintaining order.


Very good case study of what happens as a result of deviating from these principles:
View attachment 1605720

Why would you want a "modern" state? The Europeans that you admire so much are a shell of their Christian past.

And where is the premise that religion and policy making / maintaining order are mutually exclusive?

We maintain order and it is called the Sharia.

If anything, liberalism is the antithesis of order.

 

[GobidMujahid]

View attachment 1605720

A humiliating defeat of the murtadeen.

Spoiler: NSFW

 

[Deleted Member 8090]

A humiliating defeat of the murtadeen.

View attachment 1605731

Tag this nsfw next time dude

 

[Pikacel]

The Muslim World is extremely conformist (this should not be conflated with law-abidingness). Religiosity can and should be suppressed.

A modern state is a secular state. A modern state preserves its energy for policy making and maintaining order.


Very good case study of what happens as a result of deviating from these principles:
View attachment 1605720

High IQ to suppress the vast majority of the population from practicing their own religion.

 

[Undervalued]

High IQ to suppress 100% of the population from practicing their own religion

1. Do you want go back to the Middle Ages?

2. Not worth a reply. Kabul had a night life scene within living memory (1970s).

 

[Undervalued]

Why would you want a "modern" state? The Europeans that you admire so much are a shell of their Christian past.

And where is the premise that religion and policy making / maintaining order are mutually exclusive?

We maintain order and it is called the Sharia.

If anything, liberalism is the antithesis of order.

Can you name a single prosperous Muslim nation without cheating?

UAE, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Qatar, Bahrain won the geological lottery.
Singapore is not a Muslim country, it is over 70% Chinese and is a highly developed state.
Malaysia has a thin Muslim majority and is nominally a secular state. It is not a developed state.
Turkey is a secular state but it is not developed.

 

[GobidMujahid]

Can you name a single prosperous Muslim nation without cheating?

UAE, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Qatar, Bahrain won the geological lottery.
Singapore is not a Muslim country, it is over 70% Chinese and is a highly developed state.
Malaysia has a thin Muslim majority and is nominally a secular state. It is not a developed state.
Turkey is a secular state but it is not developed.

I am aware of the condition of contemporary Muslim nations, but it is not fair to deduce that it is the fault of Islam.

There is a multitude of variables that are not controlled for.

Some of them indeed turned to secularism, but it did not do them any favor because Islam was never the problem.

Take Tunisia as an example; ruled by a secular government for decades, but her economy is on par with the rest of the Maghreb, except that she has a European-level fertility rate.

 

[GobidMujahid]

Singapore is not a Muslim country, it is over 70% Chinese and is a highly developed state.
Malaysia has a thin Muslim majority and is nominally a secular state. It is not a developed state.
Turkey is a secular state but it is not developed.

They sold themselves into slavery.

This also applies to the East Asian economies you often cite, which were essentially subsidized by the wealthiest nation in the world.

 

[GobidMujahid]

1. Do you want go back to the Middle Ages?

The wisdom of Islam is timeless. Human nature has not changed since the Middle Ages. And you are confusing Muslims for luddites, dishonest strawman argument.

2. Not worth a reply. Kabul had a night life scene within living memory (1970s).

That is why the mujahideen rose up in Afghanistan. Similarly, in Iran, urban degeneracy provoked the Islamic Revolution.

 

[GobidMujahid]

night life scene

Why would any incel want this?

 

[Pikacel]

1. Do you want go back to the Middle Ages?

2. Not worth a reply. Kabul had a night life scene within living memory (1970s).

This is exactly the problem with secularism, focusing on some fortunate people who lived in the capital (of an undeveloped rural shithole) instead of the actual population of the country. Who cares

Definitely a handful of Kabul middle class people represents the entire conservative Muslim populace that was oppressed under commies while the economy completely stagnated. Which is why the state failed

Anyway people can do whatever they want and will always drink/party behind closed doors this is water. But governing an entire country around the concerns and needs of a tiny urban demographic is low IQ as fk

 

[Undervalued]

The wisdom of Islam is timeless. Human nature has not changed since the Middle Ages. You are confusing Muslims for luddites, dishonest strawman argument.

Muslims are Luddites! The Gutenberg printing press was not adopted by the Ottomans until the 18th Century.

That is why the mujahideen rose up in Afghanistan. This also happened in Tehran and then the Islamic Revolution happened.

And how is that working out? Saudi Arabia has more female university students than male. Tehran is liberalizing.

I am aware of the condition of contemporary Muslim nations, but it is not fair to deduce that it is the fault of Islam.

There is a multitude of variables that are not controlled for.

Some of them indeed turned to secularism, but it did not do them any favor because Islam was never the problem.

Take Tunisia as an example; ruled by a secular government for decades, but her economy is on par with the rest of the Maghreb, except that she has a European-level fertility rate.

Tunisia has other problems (low average IQ).

Why would any incel want this?

Did I say I wanted it? It's proof-of-concept.

This is exactly the problem with secularism, focusing on some fortunate people who lived in the capital (of an undeveloped rural shithole) instead of the actual population of the country. Who cares

Definitely a handful of Kabul middle class people represents the entire conservative Muslim populace that was oppressed under commies while the economy completely stagnated. Which is why the state failed

Anyway people can do whatever they want and will always drink/party behind closed doors this is water. But governing an entire country around the concerns and needs of a tiny urban demographic is low IQ as fk

Ok. Communism failed, so let's replace it with another failed system (Islam). Very rational.

 

[TBIcel]

Secularism is just dumb period it's only created dysfunction with anyone but Asians who are the highest IQ and most pragmatic of races but everyone else needs some level of religious law to stop them from acting like rabid dogs.

 

[Roastie Crusher]

The wisdom of Islam is timeless. Human nature has not changed since the Middle Ages. And you are confusing Muslims for luddites, dishonest strawman argument.


That is why the mujahideen rose up in Afghanistan. Similarly, in Iran, urban degeneracy provoked the Islamic Revolution.

You're using the internet that was created by jews.

 

[GobidMujahid]

Muslims are Luddites! The Gutenberg printing press was not adopted by the Ottomans until the 18th Century.

That had more to do with corrupt elites trying to control the populace than Islam. And don't you know that the printing press enabled the Reformation in Europe and Salafism in the Middle East?

And how is that working out? Saudi Arabia has more female university students than male. Tehran is liberalizing.

Stop moving the goalpost. The original point was that you thought apostasy could simply be forced upon Muslims. You are wrong.

Did I say I wanted it? It's proof-of-concept.

No, but you keep exposing the failures of secularism despite advocating for it. Namely the defeat of the West in Afghanistan and the degeneracy of secular Afghans.

Ok. Communism failed, so let's replace it with another failed system (Islam). Very rational.

Islam being a failed system is just your opinion.

 

[Lonelyus]

Religion is trash

 

[Jimb0]

People just overestimate all of these sub-saharan and middle eastern type mfs and try to see them as equals. Meanwhile these are some of the most inbred fucking low IQ subhumans which have been bred to be as devoid of critical thought or reasoning as possible. These are the same people who blow up others over cartoons btw. If all of them were to die tomorrow the world would only be better for it.

 

[GobidMujahid]

Tunisia has other problems

Yeah, that was my point. The "other problems" are at fault and not Islam.

 

[GobidMujahid]

Secularism is just dumb period it's only created dysfunction with anyone but Asians who are the highest IQ and most pragmatic of races but everyone else needs some level of religious law to stop them from acting like rabid dogs.

The said (East) Asians are a soulless materialist people who forgot the most basic duties, hence the lowest fertility rate in the world.

Their governments are already replacing them with Muslims.

 

[Undervalued]

That had more to do with corrupt elites trying to control the populace than Islam. And don't you know that the printing press allowed the Reformation in Europe and Salafism in the Middle East?

The printing press was low-cost, allowing a huge diversity of publications. Good and bad ideas were spread.

Stop moving the goalpost. The original point was that you thought apostasy could simply be forced upon Muslims. You are wrong.

How have you disproven it? In Afghanistan, the revolt was due to Communism. With Iran, urban degeneracy was a minor factor. The Shah ran a police state.

No, but you keep exposing the failures of secularism despite advocating for it. Namely the defeat of the West in Afghanistan and the degeneracy of secular Afghans.

They failed for a reason. How are you meant to conquer this country?

Islam being a failed system is just your opinion.

The Turkish Lira disagrees with you. The Sudanese Pound disagrees with you. Hell, the entirety of Lebanon disagrees with you.

 

[Qamat]

Can you name a single prosperous Muslim nation without cheating?

UAE, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Qatar, Bahrain won the geological lottery.
Singapore is not a Muslim country, it is over 70% Chinese and is a highly developed state.
Malaysia has a thin Muslim majority and is nominally a secular state. It is not a developed state.
Turkey is a secular state but it is not developed.

Islamic State.

 

[GobidMujahid]

allowing a huge diversity of publications

The Bible and the Quran were the most common texts to be printed.

In Afghanistan, the revolt was due to Communism.

Yes, and the secular policies of the Communist government in particular.

The Shah ran a police state.

He ran a police state to enforce his secular policies. And why was it an "Islamic" Revolution?

They failed for a reason. How are you meant to conquer this country?

They actually conquered most of the land. But they could not conquer the heart of the Muslims.

The Turkish Lira disagrees with you. The Sudanese Pound disagrees with you. Hell, the entirety of Lebanon disagrees with you.

And I am telling you that this is not the fault of Islam. We went over this ya hmar I am done arguing with you.

 

[TBIcel]

The said (East) Asians are a soulless materialist people who forgot the most basic duties, hence the lowest fertility rate in the world.

Their governments are already replacing them with Muslims.

You could I suppose fix that by removing (((western))) influence and just restrict women's rights that would probably be sufficient to be fair don't need much if any religion

 

[Undervalued]

The Bible and the Quran were the most common texts to be printed.

How does this negate my point?

Yes, and the secular policies of the Communist government in particular.

Communism lowered living standards greatly. That is why the people looked to Islam.

He ran a police state to enforce his secular policies. And why was it an "Islamic" Revolution?

Modern day Iran:

And I am telling you that this is not the fault of Islam. We went over this ya hmar I am done arguing with you.

I'm done as well. You are insufferable and stupid.

 

[Pikacel]

Muslims are Luddites! The Gutenberg printing press was not adopted by the Ottomans until the 18th Century.

They still imported printed texts.

And people become Luddites because they don’t want to lose their jobs, it’s common sense, for them at least.

This ‘religion holds back progress’ is cliche tbh. Science was progressed by Muslims when they had the wealth/patronage during the Islamic Golden Age then it moved to the West where it was perpetuated predominantly by the Christian clergy

And how is that working out? Saudi Arabia has more female university students than male. Tehran is liberalizing.

Tunisia has other problems (low average IQ).

Did I say I wanted it? It's proof-of-concept.

Ok. Communism failed, so let's replace it with another failed system (Islam). Very rational.

Again there’s no ‘replacing’ going on here. That’s not how it works. The Afghani were already conservative Muslims. Islam isn’t a top down ‘system’.

People believe their religion > People want to practice their religion and want their government to allow. If you can understand why a non-Muslim wouldn’t want to live under sharia you should understand why

Can you name a single prosperous Muslim nation without cheating?

UAE, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Qatar, Bahrain won the geological lottery.
Singapore is not a Muslim country, it is over 70% Chinese and is a highly developed state.
Malaysia has a thin Muslim majority and is nominally a secular state. It is not a developed state.
Turkey is a secular state but it is not developed.

Turkey and Malaysia are developed, mostly Muslim states.

Singling out Malaysia is ironic. Singapore aside, it’s the most developed SEA nation surpassing all the Christian/Buddhist states. Going full atheism won’t turn it into a utopia.

And TBH everywhere was a shithole at some point and developing isn’t easy. I’m not sure the child labourers in Victorian England cared about the fact that they lived in the strongest Empire in history and the most advanced state in the world with the biggest economy

And again, abandoning Islam won’t turn struggling Muslim states into utopias. Sisi for example was ‘secular’ compared to Morsi and all he’s done is run Egypt into the ground Lmao

 

[Zer0/∞]

A humiliating defeat of the murtadeen.

Spoiler: NSFW

View attachment 1605731

Religion of peace at work

 

[Blackpill Monk]

Better be a strict ethno-nationalist state with Strong consciousness on race

 

[AtrociousCitizen]

everyone needs some level of religious law to stop them from acting like rabid dogs.

 

[Uncle Death]

The Bible and the Quran were the most common texts to be printed.


Yes, and the secular policies of the Communist government in particular.


He ran a police state to enforce his secular policies. And why was it an "Islamic" Revolution?


They actually conquered most of the land. But they could not conquer the heart of the Muslims.


And I am telling you that this is not the fault of Islam. We went over this ya hmar I am done arguing with you.

Just so you know, I am in your side for this argument even though I am not a muslim myself anymore. Islam is way better than go to full secularism like the west does, but I do prefer selective islam or rather what is viable for the material realm be use and the spritual for the individual which is why families and social shame are necessary to function in newly muslim nation. So half secularism and half islamist or secular state with islamist(or any religion that still serious) to be put in people life. Islamic Posivitism is what I advocate.

 

[Uncle Death]

I can tolerate slower development of gdp in exchange for less sociopathic narcissistic mongrel of the likes like the American and for creation of the ethnostate which I highly support. Not everything is gdp, in a jew lead world yes but for survival no.

 

[Uncle Death]

@AtrociousCitizen you are a based jew.

 

[Uncle Death]

The said (East) Asians are a soulless materialist people who forgot the most basic duties, hence the lowest fertility rate in the world.

Their governments are already replacing them with Muslims.

In the end to have something to fight for is the true power that can moves people, religion is needed for the masses so they don’t turn out like repulsive degenerates guro loving sexless east.

Social cohesion is necessary, I rather have Muhammad as a guidance(fucking 9 year old is Nieztchian will to power deal with it weakling ) which is way cooler than worshipping le soyence god and pop star.

 

[Caesercel]

Having a secular government is not exactly atheism. It's a moot point anyway because muslims cannot avoid the tide of history. They certainly cannot go back to living like it's 1199

 

[AtrociousCitizen]

@AtrociousCitizen you are a based jew.

 

[Uncle Death]

 

[Uncle Death]

@GobidMujahid
View: https://youtu.be/xoMh088gBH8?si=BgTwmy-6s8OUJXVx


You might be interested in this

 

[Chairman Gonzolo]

The prophet Mohammed Jackson off dogs and sticks cucumbers up his ass

 

[ChildishKillah]

2. Not worth a reply. Kabul had a night life scene within living memory (1970s).

Dumbest shit ever. Elites living their best life, and then the people living like filth, that's why talibans where so popular.