Discussion Inceldom is vague

[SpookySpook]

An incel is someone who is involuntarily celibate but what do we consider involuntary? A woman will have limitless options on dating apps so we say women can't be incels but I can apply the same to YOU. You don't date men because you don't find men attractive ( obviously ) but why doesn't that make you a fakecel? If you were consistent then a woman who truly found none of her options attractive could be considered an incel ( if we keep your logic ). You can go on some gay dating app and have some options but you don't find them attractive, which could make you a fakecel. Basically, what I am saying is that inceldom is vague and women can technically be incels by the standard everyone sets. I have talked about this before in a post but it never left my thoughts. I would like a definition of what is an incel and hope it addresses the issue ( and no I am not endorsing being gay in this post )

 

[VanGobbel]

Just like your ethnicity

 

[Animecel2D]

wtf is this faggot post

 

[Sir Silentium]

An incel is someone who is involuntarily celibate but what do we consider involuntary? A woman will have limitless options on dating apps so we say women can't be incels but I can apply the same to YOU. You don't date men because you don't find men attractive ( obviously ) but why doesn't that make you a fakecel? If you were consistent then a woman who truly found none of her options attractive could be considered an incel ( if we keep your logic ). You can go on some gay dating app and have some options but you don't find them attractive, which could make you a fakecel. Basically, what I am saying is that inceldom is vague and women can technically be incels by the standard everyone sets. I have talked about this before in a post but it never left my thoughts. I would like a definition of what is an incel and hope it addresses the issue ( and no I am not endorsing being gay in this post )

I kind understand what you are saying (I think).
But remember:
- We all have standards to an extent - but women objectively have higher standards due to hypergamy and promiscuity.

The actual definition of "incel" is somewhat vague - as in cannot get a female no matter what, e.g most of us could ascend with a blind, crippled, deformed female, etc. But most of us would rather be celibate.


I actually made a similar post when I first joined.

 

[SpookySpook]

Just like your ethnicity

Let me know when you know the difference between ethnicity and nationality

wtf is this faggot post

Not endorsing taking dick up your butt, just asking what is really considered involuntary?

 

[SpookySpook]

I kind understand what you are saying (I think).
But remember:
- We all have standards to an extent - but women objectively have higher standards due to hypergamy and promiscuity.

The actual definition of "incel" is somewhat vague - as in cannot get a female no matter what, e.g most of us could ascend with a blind, crippled, deformed female, etc. But most of us would rather be celibate.


I actually made a similar post when I first joined.

You get it, everyone has standards and we all know women have higher standards than men, that example you gave is good but I used being gay because it's very common and a realistic strategy (that's why the majority of the lgbtq are men ). Like how you actually discussed something but most people here are trolls or actually stupid which is unfortunate. We need more chillcels

 

[Sir Silentium]

You get it, everyone has standards and we all know women have higher standards than men, that example you gave is good but I used being gay because it's very common and a realistic strategy (that's why the majority of the lgbtq are men ).

Yep, many people take the word "incel" for its exact definition.
I also strongly disagree that anyone should engage in homosexual activity - and I'm sure you agree.

Like how you actually discussed something but most people here are trolls or actually stupid which is unfortunate. We need more chillcels

Yea, and it's more of a recent thing too. From 2017 - 2021ish you would rarely see a troll or really stupid people. Now with all of the edgy larpers coming over from tiktok and .org, spewing rubbish, it makes the rest of us actual incels look bad.

Lots of the time I just view the 2018 threads as they are usually quite high effort and engaging - talking about pretty original topics rather than what we see now.

 

[OverLoner]

It really is. I often think being an escortcel is contradictory considering incel stands for involuntary celibate but something tells me being an incel goes beyond sex. You aren't even registered as a man by the opposite sex for the most part and you aren't an option unless there's money involved. If I had to define incel it would be this.

Men who can't form meaningful romantic relationships with women. Meaningful as in no betabuxxing, cucking, or simping. The woman in question actually likes her man and doesn't try to branch swing to something greater later on.

 

[SpookySpook]

Yep, many people take the word "incel" for its exact definition.
I also strongly disagree that anyone should engage in homosexual activity - and I'm sure you agree.


Yea, and it's more of a recent thing too. From 2017 - 2021ish you would rarely see a troll or really stupid people. Now with all of the edgy larpers coming over from tiktok and .org, spewing rubbish, it makes the rest of us actual incels look bad.

Lots of the time I just view the 2018 threads as they are usually quite high effort and engaging - talking about pretty original topics rather than what we see now.

Site could be better, its full of just hate and wish it could change a bit. I'm not tryna see the 10000000th post about hating foids and niggers but people can talk about what they want, a lot of incels think they have to fit into this man-made definition of what an incel is when u really don't have to.

 

[Sir Silentium]

Site could be better, its full of just hate and wish it could change a bit. I'm not tryna see the 10000000th post about hating foids and niggers but people can talk about what they want,

The thing is as well, this site is a rare place nowadays of actual free speech. Which is why so many people come here and making boarderline illegal statements.

People (especially non-incels) take advantage of the site as they can say almost whatever they want without repercussions.

a lot of incels think they have to fit into this man-made definition of what an incel is when u really don't have to.

Exactly

 

[SpookySpook]

It really is. I often think being an escortcel is contradictory considering incel stands for involuntary celibate but something tells me being an incel goes beyond sex. You aren't even registered as a man by the opposite sex for the most part and you aren't an option unless there's money involved. If I had to define incel it would be this.

Men who can't form meaningful romantic relationships with women. Meaningful as in no betabuxxing, cucking, or simping. The woman in question actually likes her man and doesn't try to branch swing to something greater later on.

This is not a bad definiton but it ignores the fact that everyone is being used, women are used for their bodies, chads are used for their bodies, sub 8 men are used for their money or emotional availability. Without women's sexuality they would be nothing in the dating market so a woman can say "I'm an incel because men only use me for my body" I have actually seen that before. We both know inceldom has to do with stricly sex, we know its possible for women to not find meaningful relationships ( typically because they're going for men who can replace them in a heartbeat ) but I think you get what I mean. Also I would like the definition to address women also and why they cant be an incel but men can ( should've added that to my post )

 

[SpookySpook]

The thing is as well, this site is a rare place nowadays of actual free speech. Which is why so many people come here and making boarderline illegal statements.

People (especially non-incels) take advantage of the site as they can say almost whatever they want without repercussions.


Exactly

thats the good thing about this site, there isnt some retard agenda to slience you. You have an actual community with people who relate to you struggles in life, EVERYTHING has its pros and cons ( this is my new saying )

 

[Sir Silentium]

thats the good thing about this site, there isnt some retard agenda to slience you. You have an actual community with people who relate to you struggles in life, EVERYTHING has its pros and cons ( this is my new saying )

Yep I agree. I much prefer this site to some reddit "incel" subforum where you can't even say women are misandristic without getting flamed.

It's great that we have an actual community of people.
But - Of course, just like on any other active forum with free speech, there are going to be users who say retarded things.

 

[SpookySpook]

Yep I agree. I much prefer this site to some reddit "incel" subforum where you can't even say women are misandristic without getting flamed.

It's great that we have an actual community of people.
But - Of course, just like on any other active forum with free speech, there are going to be users who say retarded things.

I don't like identifying with groups but if I were to identify with one it would be the incel community, the only community that I can relate to the majority of the time. That's why incels shouldn't fight with each other, other groups hate incels more than anything.

 

[Sir Silentium]

I don't like identifying with groups but if I were to identify with one it would be the incel community, the only community that I can relate to the majority of the time. That's why incels shouldn't fight with each other, other groups hate incels more than anything.

I feel like it's the only place I can go without being constantly judged and flamed. And even better - with like minded individuals. I love being able to share experiences with the guys on here - feels like a weight is lifted off your shoulders at times.

We need to have a strong Incel Brotherhood, similar to the site but stronger. Look at some of my comments on this post regarding brotherhood:

The Church of The First Incel: Building the Sanctuary: TCOTFI Architecture & Layout Plans

as a saint and inspiring thinker, i can no longer sit back idley and watch us have no formed law or community, I propose that we incels need a Plato's Republic, hamudi was our past Socrates but we must continue the incel philosopher tradition and build a new society, our Saintly Heros of old...

incels.is

 

[Sir Silentium]

This was my post on the same subject over a year ago:

At what point do you reach Incel status?

I have always thought about this. If you take it from a different perspective, unless you are generally a sub 2 male, or have some kind of deformity, you can theoretically pick off sub 3 single females that could be blind, have a disability or even less attractive than you. This may require a...

incels.is

 

[cathuluelitist]

An incel is someone who is involuntarily celibate but what do we consider involuntary? A woman will have limitless options on dating apps so we say women can't be incels but I can apply the same to YOU. You don't date men because you don't find men attractive ( obviously ) but why doesn't that make you a fakecel? If you were consistent then a woman who truly found none of her options attractive could be considered an incel ( if we keep your logic ). You can go on some gay dating app and have some options but you don't find them attractive, which could make you a fakecel. Basically, what I am saying is that inceldom is vague and women can technically be incels by the standard everyone sets. I have talked about this before in a post but it never left my thoughts. I would like a definition of what is an incel and hope it addresses the issue ( and no I am not endorsing being gay in this post )

No will engage with this (rightfully so) so I will. A woman's celibacy is voluntary because it's 100% of the time her selective filter. She is simply a discerning consumer. Choosing not to engage with partners is because her expectations is idealistic and unrealistic so it's just asceticism. Men lack the agency to do that. Just look how easy it was for a "girl" to acquire a loving male when they were doing research for dating sites, she has so many realistic options. And your just have sex with a guy contendere is just absurd lol

 

[SpookySpook]

This was my post on the same subject over a year ago:

At what point do you reach Incel status?

I have always thought about this. If you take it from a different perspective, unless you are generally a sub 2 male, or have some kind of deformity, you can theoretically pick off sub 3 single females that could be blind, have a disability or even less attractive than you. This may require a...

incels.is

Posts like this will never get replies because it ruins our copes as incels. Obviously, there are genetic factors and environmental factors that contribute to your inceldom but some things are in your control no matter how shitty they are. An example is approaching like you said, are you really an incel if u dont approach girls? Not saying it makes you a fakecel, you're just asking at what point are you actually an incel. I dont think there's a real point where you become an incel but you can identify as one if you really want pussy and never seem to be able to get it. I am in that boat, cant get pussy, cant get a relationship, cant even get friends as sad as it sounds. It's all just a belief, you believe you're an incel. Sub 3 Steve over there is in the same boat but doesn't identify as an incel which is funny. Also being an incel is a situation like we all know, if you were born in Afganistan you would prob be married to some muslim wife and she couldn't do much, we would have to marry someone or face threats to her safety. In america you would have to betabux and jestermax to even get a chance with a girl ( as the average man ) . I am bad with words and feel like im yapping too long but I think u get what I mean

 

[OverLoner]

This is not a bad definiton but it ignores the fact that everyone is being used, women are used for their bodies, chads are used for their bodies, sub 8 men are used for their money or emotional availability. Without women's sexuality they would be nothing in the dating market so a woman can say "I'm an incel because men only use me for my body" I have actually seen that before. We both know inceldom has to do with stricly sex, we know its possible for women to not find meaningful relationships ( typically because they're going for men who can replace them in a heartbeat ) but I think you get what I mean. Also I would like the definition to address women also and why they cant be an incel but men can ( should've added that to my post )

People being used doesn't always have to do with inceldom though and even when it does it doesn't mean who ever is being used is automatically an incel. Women can't be incels because the ball is literally in their park. All they have to do is choose better and they win. I'm sure some incels here would be overjoyed if a woman asked them out. I don't have the luxury of choice beyond escorts. Women want nothing to do with me unless it involves me reaching something or carrying something for them. I've asked women out before and every time it's been a no.

Effort means nothing if you never had the right build to begin with. Imagine throwing a lightweight into a heavyweight boxing match. If both are skilled fighters even if the lightweight fighter is slightly more skilled it won't matter because the heavyweight has more reach and momentum behind their punches. That's pretty much what is it to go up against chad. You won't win. At best just maybe you won't get humiliated. This is why men can be incels and women can't. This idea that self improvement will fix everything is silly. A shortcel could improve nonstop but nothing will help him with his height. In fact I'm willing to bet I'd be hard pressed to find nearly as many women who were virgins until 30 like men.

No will engage with this (rightfully so) so I will. A woman's celibacy is voluntary because it's 100% of the time her selective filter. She is simply a discerning consumer. Choosing not to engage with partners is because her expectations is idealistic and unrealistic so it's just asceticism. Men lack the agency to do that. Just look how easy it was for a "girl" to acquire a loving male when they were doing research for dating sites, she has so many realistic options. And your just have sex with a guy contendere is just absurd lol

Said it better than I ever could.

 

[SpookySpook]

No will engage with this (rightfully so) so I will. A woman's celibacy is voluntary because it's 100% of the time her selective filter. She is simply a discerning consumer. Choosing not to engage with partners is because her expectations is idealistic and unrealistic so it's just asceticism. Men lack the agency to do that. Just look how easy it was for a "girl" to acquire a loving male when they were doing research for dating sites, she has so many realistic options. And your just have sex with a guy contendere is just absurd lol

My hypothetical is pointing out that attraction and sexuality aren't really a choice, she can't choose to be attracted to ugly men just like how you can't choose to be attracted to other men. Yes its unrealistic to expect every man to fit your hypergamous standards but if she really didn't find the men show had to pick attractive then why isn't she an incel?

 

[cathuluelitist]

My hypothetical is pointing out that attraction and sexuality aren't really a choice, she can't choose to be attracted to ugly men just like how you can't choose to be attracted to other men. Yes its unrealistic to expect every man to fit your hypergamous standards but if she really didn't find the men show had to pick attractive then why isn't she an incel?

Sexual attraction isn't an immutable internal state. Incels lack the mating capacity. Idealistic hypergamy would fall under faulty mating strategy.

 

[SpookySpook]

People being used doesn't always have to do with inceldom though and even when it does it doesn't mean who ever is being used is automatically an incel. Women can't be incels because the ball is literally in their park. All they have to do is choose better and they win. I'm sure some incels here would be overjoyed if a woman asked them out. I don't have the luxury of choice beyond escorts. Women want nothing to do with me unless it involves me reaching something or carrying something for them. I've asked women out before and every time it's been a no.

Effort means nothing if you never had the right build to begin with. Imagine throwing a lightweight into a heavyweight boxing match. If both are skilled fighters even if the lightweight fighter is slightly more skilled it won't matter because the heavyweight has more reach and momentum behind their punches. That's pretty much what is it to go up against chad. You won't win. At best just maybe you won't get humiliated. This is why men can be incels and women can't. This idea that self improvement will fix everything is silly. A shortcel could improve nonstop but nothing will help him with his height. In fact I'm willing to bet I'd be hard pressed to find nearly as many women who were virgins until 30 like men.

Said it better than I ever could.

This ignores attraction, women only date betabuxxers due to coercion ( fearing the financial struggles she faces without the betabuxxer ) we have a lack of sex as incels and we can be coerced to date men just like how women date men they aren't attracted to. You say better but that isn't objective, yes I believe a good man who will treat her like a queen is better for her than an abusive Chad but the woman can think otherwise and prefer the Chad because she is physically attracted to him. Just like how there is potentially a man who will treat you amazing comapred to a woman who will use you like every other man today, obviously in both cases you pick a certain option because you have no attraction to the other

 

[SpookySpook]

Sexual attraction isn't an immutable internal state. Incels lack the mating capacity. Idealistic hypergamy would fall under faulty mating strategy.

This assumes you can change your attraction though. Incels lacking the mating capacity can be fixed by opening your options to other men but even if you can get a gay man willing to date you it wouldn't matter, you lack the attraction which makes a relationship not possible. I can say you have a failed strategy because you only go after one sex but that makes no sense because I am not addressing attraction.

 

[OverLoner]

This ignores attraction, women only date betabuxxers due to coercion ( fearing the financial struggles she faces without the betabuxxer ) we have a lack of sex as incels and we can be coerced to date men just like how women date men they aren't attracted to. You say better but that isn't objective, yes I believe a good man who will treat her like a queen is better for her than an abusive Chad but the woman can think otherwise and prefer the Chad because she is physically attracted to him. Just like how there is potentially a man who will treat you amazing comapred to a woman who will use you like every other man today, obviously in both cases you pick a certain option because you have no attraction to the other

Why are you pushing this gay stuff? Also terrible comparison since a man never has a shot with me since I'm not gay. Even starving to death sounds better than being forced into faggotry. Also calling it coercion when they literally have nothing but options is silly. They could get a job like most people do.

 

[cathuluelitist]

This assumes you can change your attraction though. Incels lacking the mating capacity can be fixed by opening your options to other men but even if you can get a gay man willing to date you it wouldn't matter, you lack the attraction which makes a relationship not possible. I can say you have a failed strategy because you only go after one sex but that makes no sense because I am not addressing attraction.

You can in fact change your attraction since it isn't an immutable trait.

 

[OverLoner]

You can in fact change your attraction since it isn't an immutable trait.

You're literally giving him ammo to argue incels can be made into faggots. Please stop before the hole is dug any further.

 

[Sir Silentium]

Posts like this will never get replies because it ruins our copes as incels. Obviously, there are genetic factors and environmental factors that contribute to your inceldom but some things are in your control no matter how shitty they are.

Not to mention there are so many redpillers nowadays that believe if you "just do X bro" then you will ascend. They think that because it worked for them, it must work for us too.

After puberty our bones are fully formed and our plates have closed. After 16ish no matter what you do your body has already adjusted to your genetic blueprint, as well as the environment.

An example is approaching like you said, are you really an incel if u dont approach girls? Not saying it makes you a fakecel, you're just asking at what point are you actually an incel.

Yes, and some of us there is barely even point in trying, as we practically already know the outcome. But having said that I believe that everyone should have tried at least once in their life.

I dont think there's a real point where you become an incel but you can identify as one if you really want pussy and never seem to be able to get it.

And most people who are actually incel don't even identify with the term. But being an incel is just something that you are.
Society tries and link inceldom to all of these ideologies, as if being involuntarily celibate will automatically mean that we are extremists.

I am in that boat, cant get pussy, cant get a relationship, cant even get friends as sad as it sounds.

At least we can make friends on this forum.

It's all just a belief, you believe you're an incel. Sub 3 Steve over there is in the same boat but doesn't identify as an incel which is funny. Also being an incel is a situation like we all know, if you were born in Afganistan you would prob be married to some muslim wife and she couldn't do much, we would have to marry someone or face threats to her safety. In america you would have to betabux and jestermax to even get a chance with a girl ( as the average man ) . I am bad with words and feel like im yapping too long but I think u get what I mean

Yes I know what you mean. The locationpill is a big factor as well. People for example in Australia may really struggle to find a gf, but would haev no trouble at all in island countries in the pacific.

 

[Sir Silentium]

You're literally giving him ammo to argue incels can be made into faggots. Please stop before the hole is dug any further.

I know it sounds like that, but that isn't spooky's point. It is hard to add sub points into this specific topic.

 

[cathuluelitist]

You're literally giving him ammo to argue incels can be made into faggots. Please stop before the hole is dug any further.

probably, though I don't mean altering your entire seuxal orientation. I personally beleive homosexuality is because of a genetic innate dispositional set and can really only be achieved through years of brain destruction immutablly

 

[SpookySpook]

Why are you pushing this gay stuff? Also terrible comparison since a man never has a shot with me since I'm not gay. Even starving to death sounds better than being forced into faggotry. Also calling it coercion when they literally have nothing but options is silly. They could get a job like most people do.

Not forcing it, im saying that if you used a gay dating app you could get options but you dont because you lack the attraction towards men. Its coercion ( not the mans fault ) because her choice is based on something outside of her own will.

You can in fact change your attraction since it isn't an immutable trait.

Then choose to be gay or you're a fakecel

 

[cathuluelitist]

Not forcing it, im saying that if you used a gay dating app you could get options but you dont because you lack the attraction towards men. Its coercion ( not the mans fault ) because her choice is based on something outside of her own will.


Then choose to be gay or you're a fakecel

Under what logical trainwreck did you get these choices from

 

[SpookySpook]

probably, though I don't mean altering your entire seuxal orientation. I personally beleive homosexuality is because of a genetic innate dispositional set and can really only be achieved through years of brain destruction immutablly

agreed but you can apply that exact same logic to a woman who doesn't find her options attractive

 

[cathuluelitist]

agreed but you can apply that exact same logic to a woman who doesn't find her options attractive

Not at all because she has the capacity. The crux of her issue lies in her mating strategy not her actual capacity

 

[OverLoner]

I would say trying to argue women can be incels is like stating men and women are the same. They aren't. I'd be hard pressed to find a woman who struggled to find a date.

Not forcing it, im saying that if you used a gay dating app you could get options but you dont because you lack the attraction towards men. Its coercion ( not the mans fault ) because her choice is based on something outside of her own will.

There is a reason why homosexuals are excluded from being incels. Also arguing this means you argue attraction can be changed. It cannot. Some things are set in stone like ones sex. Also she is literally making the choice. Coercion is involuntary. Just because she's not attracted doesn't make it involuntary.

 

[SpookySpook]

Under what logical trainwreck did you get these choices from

My point is that you can't consciously change attraction ( which we both agree on ). I'm trying to show you why it's not reasonable to expect someone to be in a relationship with someone they're truly not attracted to.

 

[OverLoner]

My point is that you can't consciously change attraction ( which we both agree on ). I'm trying to show you why it's not reasonable to expect someone to be in a relationship with someone they're truly not attracted to.

So far the only thing I agree with you on is that last sentence. I like to think most people don't want that here anyways. It would just be kinda sad tbh.

 

[cathuluelitist]

My point is that you can't consciously change attraction ( which we both agree on ). I'm trying to show you why it's not reasonable to expect someone to be in a relationship with someone they're truly not attracted to.

You will never have the "perfect mate". This is utopianism slop to lower the White birth rate. You look for biological sparks not your ideal lover. This is how it's been for all of history and that's for a reason

 

[OverLoner]

You will never have the "perfect mate". This is utopianism slop to lower the White birth rate. You look for biological sparks not your ideal lover. This is how it's been for all of history and that's for a reason

What if you don't care about the white birth rate? I mean considering the girl boss attitude lots of western women have I kinda don't care if we as a group go extinct. As far as I'm concerned there's nothing to salvage.

 

[BlackPilledNormi]

I put this as neutral as possible I dont have sex with men because I wouldnt be able, physically, to get an errection to have sex with them, same applies to extremly ugly or obese women.

 

[cathuluelitist]

What if you don't care about the white birth rate? I mean considering the girl boss attitude lots of western women have I kinda don't care if we as a group go extinct. As far as I'm concerned there's nothing to salvage.

Fair.

 

[SpookySpook]

Not at all because she has the capacity. The crux of her issue lies in her mating strategy not her actual capacity

The point has nothing to do with capacity; it has to do with physical attraction. She cannot force attraction that isnt there. Women obviously can and do have options available to them but my point is do they really count if there's a lack of attraction? That's why I brought up being gay, it doesn't count because you lack attraction.

I would say trying to argue women can be incels is like stating men and women are the same. They aren't. I'd be hard pressed to find a woman who struggled to find a date.

There is a reason why homosexuals are excluded from being incels. Also arguing this means you argue attraction can be changed. It cannot. Some things are set in stone like ones sex. Also she is literally making the choice. Coercion is involuntary. Just because she's not attracted doesn't make it involuntary.

Not arguing that women can be incels, my point is that the term incel is vague and that women can be an incel with the definition of it. I was arguing that attraction CAN'T be changed. When I say coercion, I mean factors outside of her attraction that are at play. For example, in Afghanistan you cannot marry a non-Muslim man so she is coerced into marrying a muslim man ( I believe so ).


off topic but I kept getting called outside by family, should be fucking done

 

[cathuluelitist]

What if you don't care about the white birth rate? I mean considering the girl boss attitude lots of western women have I kinda don't care if we as a group go extinct. As far as I'm concerned there's nothing to salvage.

This is fair but let's be clear here

The West as an institution may be beyond saving. It is currently corrupted, and managed by a parasitic class.
But the people are not an abstract concept. They are your ancestors and, also your descendants <sic> "most likely" [keynote there] (probably not in this context which is why I'm being charitable here). I, find it's my duty to fight as much as my predecessors did for me. I can entirely understand your view, because certain peoples have no ethne worth defense, unless you're White.

 

[SpookySpook]

You will never have the "perfect mate". This is utopianism slop to lower the White birth rate. You look for biological sparks not your ideal lover. This is how it's been for all of history and that's for a reason

No one is saying it's a "perfect mate" just that the hypotectical women isnt attracted to the options she has. It like how you wouldn't date a man and probably wouldn't date a biological women who looks exactly like a man ( is a hairy and masucline looks trans person ). Attraction limits your options

 

[cathuluelitist]

The point has nothing to do with capacity; it has to do with physical attraction. She cannot force attraction that isnt there. Women obviously can and do have options available to them but my point is do they really count if there's a lack of attraction? That's why I brought up being gay, it doesn't count because you lack attraction.


Not arguing that women can be incels, my point is that the term incel is vague and that women can be an incel with the definition of it. I was arguing that attraction CAN'T be changed. When I say coercion, I mean factors outside of her attraction that are at play. For example, in Afghanistan you cannot marry a non-Muslim man so she is coerced into marrying a muslim man ( I believe so ).


off topic but I kept getting called outside by family, should be fucking done

Inceldom is a structural outcome, where the output is dependent on women. Women cannot be this individual minority because she is the independent variable of the sex dynamic, she biologically, almost 99% of the time will have a biological spark with a man she isn't entirely interested in which will over time fuel romance. There are a lot of good men out there waiting for a woman. The women mate filter is immutable. The only thing you need is a penis. Romantic desire for women is entirely cultural

 

[OverLoner]

This is fair but let's be clear here

The West as an institution may be beyond saving. It is currently corrupted, and managed by a parasitic class.
But the people are not an abstract concept. They are your ancestors and, also your descendants <sic> "most likely" [keynote there] (probably not in this context which is why I'm being charitable here). I, find it's my duty to fight as much as my predecessors did for me. I can entirely understand your view, because certain peoples have no ethne worth defense, unless you're White.

Our ancestors didn't have to deal with this level of bullshit. Now if gender roles came back and were enforced I'd be willing maybe. As things stand now though I rather just let it burn. After all ungrateful pieces of shit deserve nothing.

No one is saying it's a "perfect mate" just that the hypotectical women isnt attracted to the options she has. It like how you wouldn't date a man and probably wouldn't date a biological women who looks exactly like a man ( is a hairy and masucline looks trans person ). Attraction limits your options

I think it's pretty normal for a straight man not to be attracted to men or women who look like men. This level of hypergamy on the hand is not. The internet has completely changed the dynamic of dating forever.

 

[cathuluelitist]

No one is saying it's a "perfect mate" just that the hypotectical women isnt attracted to the options she has. It like how you wouldn't date a man and probably wouldn't date a biological women who looks exactly like a man ( is a hairy and masucline looks trans person ). Attraction limits your options

I'm not interested in engaging with an appeal to extremes argument

 

[cathuluelitist]

Our ancestors didn't have to deal with this level of bullshit. Now if gender roles came back and were enforced I'd be willing maybe. As things stand now though I rather just let it burn. After all ungrateful pieces of shit deserve nothing.

I think it's pretty normal for a straight man not to be attracted to men or women who look like men. This level of hypergamy on the hand is not. The internet has completely changed the dynamic of dating forever.

I recently read a book by Albert Nock and he basically talked about this strategy called the remnant strategy where you essentially just ignore the masses and build parallel communities and do various methods of partisan dissemination for your parallel peoples and start covert political invasions by infiltrating the institutions and congress etc

 

[Eastwest404]

An incel is someone who is involuntarily celibate but what do we consider involuntary? A woman will have limitless options on dating apps so we say women can't be incels but I can apply the same to YOU. You don't date men because you don't find men attractive ( obviously ) but why doesn't that make you a fakecel? If you were consistent then a woman who truly found none of her options attractive could be considered an incel ( if we keep your logic ). You can go on some gay dating app and have some options but you don't find them attractive, which could make you a fakecel. Basically, what I am saying is that inceldom is vague and women can technically be incels by the standard everyone sets. I have talked about this before in a post but it never left my thoughts. I would like a definition of what is an incel and hope it addresses the issue ( and no I am not endorsing being gay in this post )

Orientation isn't voluntary. You can't just "decide" that you're attracted to males

 

[SpookySpook]

Inceldom is a structural outcome, where the output is dependent on women. Women cannot be this individual minority because she is the independent variable of the sex dynamic, she biologically, almost 99% of the time will have a biological spark with a man she isn't entirely interested in which will over time fuel romance. There are a lot of good men out there waiting for a woman. The women mate filter is immutable. The only thing you need is a penis. Romantic desire for women is entirely cultural

Firstly, you're assuming women will almost always develop attraction to biological men over time which isn't true and if you believe it is you would need to provide evidence or reasons why this is true. Secondly, I agree with inceldom being a structural outcome and women having the power but this ignores attraction; straight men can't be attracted to other men no matter how "good" of a partner they are. Attraction can come with time but it isnt a guarantee and would require her being with someone she doesn't initially like for the sake of becoming attracted to him. Again, almost everything can be applied to straight men for not dating other men, just date other men to see if you gain attraction bro.

I think it's pretty normal for a straight man not to be attracted to men or women who look like men. This level of hypergamy on the hand is not. The internet has completely changed the dynamic of dating forever.

Hypergamy that we see is what women do when they dont need a man for resources and have the freedom to date who they want, they will go for men they're attracted to because thats all that matter to them now. They dont need to worry about not having certain rights or money ( in western countries ) without a man. It is not normal as this is the first time we seen this in history but with these circumstances hypergamy to this level is only natural ( which sucks ).

I'm not interested in engaging with an appeal to extremes argument

Its not about being extreme, it's about attraction being necessary. The trans one might be a bit extreme but the gay man hypothetical is realistic and not extreme at all. You can download a gay app right now and find a partner but you dont

 

[OverLoner]

Firstly, you're assuming women will almost always develop attraction to biological men over time which isn't true and if you believe it is you would need to provide evidence or reasons why this is true. Secondly, I agree with inceldom being a structural outcome and women having the power but this ignores attraction; straight men can't be attracted to other men no matter how "good" of a partner they are. Attraction can come with time but it isnt a guarantee and would require her being with someone she doesn't initially like for the sake of becoming attracted to him. Again, almost everything can be applied to straight men for not dating other men, just date other men to see if you gain attraction bro.

Go back 50 years ago and you wouldn't see the problems you see today at least on the same scale. Denying hypergamy is denying reality.

Hypergamy that we see is what women do when they dont need a man for resources and have the freedom to date who they want, they will go for men they're attracted to because thats all that matter to them now. They dont need to worry about not having certain rights or money ( in western countries ) without a man. It is not normal as this is the first time we seen this in history but with these circumstances hypergamy to this level is only natural ( which sucks ).

That and abundance of choice. Now if people stayed in their communities that's where choice dries up and they either pick whatever there is or die alone.

Its not about being extreme, it's about attraction being necessary. The trans one might be a bit extreme but the gay man hypothetical is realistic and not extreme at all. You can download a gay app right now and find a partner but you dont

You could also fuck an animal if you want. Doesn't mean you should. Also arguing attraction about a woman not having attraction to an ugly man vs a straight man not having attraction to a gay man is not even comparable. You're literally comparing apples to oranges.