Serious Huge Change in My Life Going From 5.5 to 3.5

[universallyabhorred]

I am 28, and almost turning 29.

Face rating 5-6 childhood up until age 16-17. Easier time making friends, nicer treatment by strangers and customer service. Positive looks from girls, occasional smiles or girls I didn't know calling me cute. Still unpopular due to autism but not a complete outcast, easy making friends with LTNs who were also unpopular. Had quite a few acquaintances people who'd talk to me but wouldn't hang out since I was unpopular. You almost never get negative looks from passerby, extremely rare, in the cases it happened can be explained by racism. Also, way more IOIs a significant percentage like 20 percent.

Face rating 4-5 age 16-19, occasionally when I was thinner age 21, 22 and also 23-24 Biggest difference is no foids show interest or ever complimented me on my appearance. Other than that, it is harder making friends and nearly impossible making friends or acquaintances with 6+ people. If foids give IOIs or any positive attention it is rare like 1 or 2 percent. You occasionally get negative looks from passerby not too much, less stares but still a few. It's possible to socialize with foids if you try and they will occasionally have conversations, but they don't really care about you or attracted to you, friendzone is the most likely. You can maybe get a very fat or ugly female with effort and you won't have much power in the relationship. There are places you are not welcome such as night clubs, bars and fraternities, I still remember getting dirty look by a white foid in a bar and by frat recruiters. I had a few acquaintances and friends IRL when I was 18-19 but nothing since then. Of course, it is worth noting that I am autistic and my social experiences would have been better if I was NT. In group projects, people ask you for your opinion or at least try to include you. Occasionally uglier or fatter women are nice to you, generally with service, most women are still cold to you. There is overlap in these years between LTN and sub4 so it is not always clear where I was.

Face rating 3-4 age 24/25-now This is arguably the worst. I haven't been able to have a single long conversation with anyone not even men, make a joke that people laugh at unless it's making fun of me, no acquaintances or friends at all. Women hate my guts, I often get negative looks or people avoiding looking at me. Women don't even want to talk to me. Never get any IOIs, customer service is often rude to me frequently doesn't say thank you, bye or hi while saying it to other people. Ostracized in groups, people don't even ask for your opinion in group projects and almost never make small talk, even when they do it is a rare exception, out of pity or making sure you are not a threat. It's really hard at this level, because you recognize everyone is against you and it's hard to find people at this level, even when you do, they often don't like you. I remember a few brutal instances in one case I was stared at with a look of disgust by these two foids and they held eye contact. In another case, I noticed people didn't like to walk in the same place as me in the park and these two old ladies who saw me walking changed where they were sitting down. Also, there was one case where I went to a store, and this guy looked at me and walked out and the employee working there who was sub4 actually apologized to him, might have been coincidence, I hope. At least the employee was nice to me though he felt sorry for me. Another one was when I was walking a group of curry foids in ear shot said something like ugly people shouldn't go outside, surprisingly I don't think they saw me, but the fact they talk about it so openly made me mad. I wasn't even particularly fat then, just a bit overweight, but my facial structure looked strange, probably due to the implant. Some people rate me LTN back then but based on how I was treated I was definitely sub4. I still get this treatment today, I am hoping losing weight bring me up to LTN otherwise I will spend my whole life being treated this way.

@TheGrayWolf thoughts? Do you see any differences in treatment between having a deformity and being 3-4?

 

[wereq]

This is why exercise is necessary.

 

[universallyabhorred]

This is why exercise is necessary.

There are people who are sub4 even when thin. Exercise and even plastic surgery won't save everyone. We need better surgical techniques and eugenics.

 

[wereq]

There are people who are sub4 even when thin.

You were of higher looks rating when you were thinner so exercise ca save you.

 

[The Wolf]

I think it is similar but slightly more extreme due to my strange head and strange features. I am white, so racism is not an option in my case -- I don't think it's the case for you either though. What I have noticed over the last 14-15 years: I am seen either as a joke or any form of "this guy looks weird." Most people do it. I don't understand why they have to share obvious looks or jokes when I'm standing right in front of them, at least wait.

I can relate to a lot of what you say, and in the end, we are both ostracized and "othered" -- we are both seen as (harmless) aliens.

 

[universallyabhorred]

You were of higher looks rating when you were thinner so exercise ca save you.

We will see, but I meant in general. It is worth noting I was 180-190 lbs snd still treated as sub4. On the other hand, I was probably treated as LTN when I got skin treatment and fillers under my eyes most of the time but still occasionally as sub4. I remember one time I did Uber Eats and tried talking to a foid who was also on the app and she gave one word answers lied to me about something and walked away when I was still talking to her.

 

[wereq]

We will see, but I meant in general. It is worth noting I was 180-190 lbs snd still treated as sub4. On the other hand, I was probably treated as LTN when I got skin treatment and fillers under my eyes most of the time but still occasionally as sub4. I remember one time I did Uber Eats and tried talking to a foid who was also on the app and she gave one word answers lied to me about something and walked away when I was still talking to her.

You make endless amounts of excuses. Most guys including incels try to ascend at least once in life, but you're too fragile of mind to do even that.

 

[universallyabhorred]

I think it is similar but slightly more extreme due to my strange head and strange features. I am white, so racism is not an option in my case -- I don't think it's the case for you either though. What I have noticed over the last 14-15 years: I am seen either as a joke or any form of "this guy looks weird." Most people do it. I don't understand why they have to share obvious looks or jokes when I'm standing right in front of them, at least wait.

I can relate to a lot of what you say, and in the end, we are both ostracized and "othered" -- we are both seen as (harmless) aliens.

I think I occasionally encountered racism when I was LTN or MTN. Like I remember this older White foid staring and giving me negative looks when I was MTN teenager. At LTN I went to a bar to ask for the restroom, the barkeep was polite but this White lady kept staring at me with me a hateful look, it was way over the top like she wanted to attack me.

People actually find me somewhat threatening so they avoid looking at me directly sometimes but look indirectly. I did notice more negative looks when I was 180-190 than now.

 

[universallyabhorred]

You make endless amounts of excuses. Most guys including incels try to ascend at least once in life, but you're too fragile of mind to do even that.

I have lost weight before and occasionally reached LTN or been treated as sub4. I also went way further than most incels in Iooksmaxxing with surgeries, skin care and filler.

 

[universallyabhorred]

I think it is similar but slightly more extreme due to my strange head and strange features. I am white, so racism is not an option in my case -- I don't think it's the case for you either though. What I have noticed over the last 14-15 years: I am seen either as a joke or any form of "this guy looks weird." Most people do it. I don't understand why they have to share obvious looks or jokes when I'm standing right in front of them, at least wait.

I can relate to a lot of what you say, and in the end, we are both ostracized and "othered" -- we are both seen as (harmless) aliens.

People directly joking in front of you is extremely brutal. Do they ever address you normally or politely? Have you ever tried having a conversation with anyone before?

 

[The Wolf]

I think I occasionally encountered racism when I was LTN or MTN. Like I remember this older White foid staring and giving me negative looks when I was MTN teenager. At LTN I went to a bar to ask for the restroom, the barkeep was polite but this White lady kept staring at me with me a hateful look, it was way over the top like she wanted to attack me.

Don't know why people can't just be more respectful and considerate.

People actually find me somewhat threatening so they avoid looking at me directly sometimes but look indirectly. I did notice more negative looks when I was 180-190 than now.

I am 5'4 and 110 lbs but it's good at least some little improvement happened to you.

 

[universallyabhorred]

Don't know why people can't just be more respectful and considerate.


I am 5'4 and 110 lbs but it's good at least some little improvement happened to you.

Not really an improvement, gaining weight. Honestly, IDK why they reacted that way. I hope this time it will be better, I plan to reach 160-170 this time.

 

[WhitePilledRage]

I think I occasionally encountered racism when I was LTN or MTN. Like I remember this older White foid staring and giving me negative looks when I was MTN teenager. At LTN I went to a bar to ask for the restroom, the barkeep was polite but this White lady kept staring at me with me a hateful look, it was way over the top like she wanted to attack me.

People actually find me somewhat threatening so they avoid looking at me directly sometimes but look indirectly. I did notice more negative looks when I was 180-190 than now.

why didn't you get in her face? what's a white bitch going to do?

 

[universallyabhorred]

why didn't you get in her face? what's a white bitch going to do?

I was like 14, I guess.

 

[The Wolf]

Not really an improvement, gaining weight. Honestly, IDK why they reacted that way. I hope this time it will be better, I plan to reach 160-170 this time.

gym or walking outside?

 

[The Wolf]

why didn't you get in her face? what's a white bitch going to do?

sue/report him...

 

[universallyabhorred]

gym or walking outside?

Planning to jog outside, haven't done so yet.

 

[Initium]

We will see, but I meant in general. It is worth noting I was 180-190 lbs snd still treated as sub4. On the other hand, I was probably treated as LTN when I got skin treatment and fillers under my eyes most of the time but still occasionally as sub4. I remember one time I did Uber Eats and tried talking to a foid who was also on the app and she gave one word answers lied to me about something and walked away when I was still talking to her.

If foids consider you subhuman, there's not point in trying to interact with them period. At best they will treat you like trash. At worst they could accuse you of serial assault or something for making eye contact.

Best to just embrace the hermit life.

 

[universallyabhorred]

If foids consider you subhuman, there's not point in trying to interact with them period. At best they will treat you like trash. At worst they could accuse you of serial assault or something for making eye contact.

Best to just embrace the hermit life.

True, not every foid is that bad. It's generally younger foids, even back then.

 

[wereq]

I have lost weight before and occasionally reached LTN or been treated as sub4. I also went way further than most incels in Iooksmaxxing with surgeries, skin care and filler.

There is no hope for you.

 

[Initium]

True, not every foid is that bad. It's generally younger foids, even back then.

The younger ones aka prime foids at their peak.

 

[universallyabhorred]

There is no hope for you.

Why are you being so aggressive jfl?

 

[universallyabhorred]

The younger ones aka prime foids at their peak.

Some of them are basically like that to all sub5s or even sub6s

 

[wereq]

Why are you being so aggressive jfl?

I despise you. You tried to defame me and get me kicked out. You are also a retard and mentally ill. Toxic combination.

 

[universallyabhorred]

I despise you. You tried to defame me and get me kicked out. You are also a retard and mentally ill. Toxic combination.

I thought you were over it. And I can assure you that I IQ mog you verbally at least.

 

[wereq]

I thought you were over it.

Why would I get over betrayal so easily? You're a treacherous piece of shit.

And I can assure you that I IQ mog you verbally at least.

You are a drop out and a failure who couldn't even graduate on time. I graduated with engineering degree from world top 50 university.

 

[Autist]

I can't relate to you because I was always a 2-3. No one treated me well for existing.

 

[VanGobbel]

---

Summary of the Post (Bullet Points)​

Childhood to Age 16–17 (Self‑rated “5–6”)​

• Social interactions were easier; strangers and customer service treated him kindly.
• Received occasional positive attention from girls (smiles, compliments).
• Despite autism, he wasn’t fully isolated and could make friends with other unpopular peers.
• Had acquaintances who would talk to him but not hang out.
• Rarely received negative looks; when it happened, he attributes it to racism.
• Felt he received a relatively high amount of interest from girls (~20%).

---

Ages 16–19 (and occasionally 21–24) (Self‑rated “4–5”)​

• Noticed a decline in social and romantic interest from women.
• Making friends became harder, especially with more socially successful people.
• Positive signals from women became extremely rare (1–2%).
• Sometimes received negative looks from strangers.
• Women would talk to him occasionally but showed no attraction; friend‑zone was common.
• Believes he could only date women he considered unattractive and would have little power in the relationship.
• Felt unwelcome in certain social spaces (bars, clubs, fraternities).
• Had a few friends at 18–19 but none afterward.
• Notes that autism likely made socializing harder.
• In group projects, people still included him somewhat.
• Some people (usually those he perceived as less attractive) were kind, but most women were cold.
• Feels he fluctuated between “average‑low” and “below average” during these years.

---

Age 24/25 to Present (Self‑rated “3–4”)​

• Reports severe social isolation: no friends, no long conversations with anyone.
• Jokes only get laughs when they’re at his expense.
• Feels strongly disliked or avoided by women; no signs of interest at all.
• Experiences frequent negative looks and avoidance from strangers.
• Customer service interactions feel noticeably colder compared to how others are treated.
• In group settings, people rarely speak to him or ask for his input.
• Believes people see him as a threat or pity him.
• Describes several painful incidents where strangers reacted with disgust or avoidance.
• Overheard people making comments about “ugly people,” which he interpreted as directed at him.
• Attributes some issues to facial structure changes after an implant.
• Although some people rated him higher, he feels his treatment confirms he is “below average.”
• Hopes weight loss will improve how others treat him.

---

Final Question​

• Asks another user whether they notice differences in how people treat someone with a visible deformity versus someone they consider “below average” in appearance.

---

 

[universallyabhorred]

Why would I get over betrayal so easily? You're a treacherous piece of shit.

You are a drop out and a failure who couldn't even graduate on time. I graduated with engineering degree from world top 50 university.

Engineering doesn't require a high verbal IQ. Top 50 is impressive, but you mentioned you got IQ tested formally at 105, so maybe you worked hard. I made that thread because I felt betrayed so I can understand. I hope you forgive me with time.

 

[wereq]

I made that thread because I felt betrayed so I can understand.

Betrayed how? You expect girls from a asexual, high inhib, herbivorish, and conservative country to immediately land on your lap even though you look like an unshapely morbidly obese homeless person with a neckbeard?! I told you repeatedly that you need to hit the gym and get your lean face back but you always make excuses because you're too fragile for self-improvement, which is why I now believe that there is no hope for you.

 

[universallyabhorred]

Betrayed how? You expect girls from a asexual, high inhib, herbivorish, and conservative country to immediately land on your lap even though you look like an unshapely morbidly obese homeless person with a neckbeard?! I told you repeatedly that you need to hit the gym and get your lean face back but you always make excuses because you're too fragile for self-improvement, which is why I now believe that there is no hope for you.

I thought I'd be treated better in India, not have girls throw themselves at me. But I still got negative looks there and didn't notice any improvement.

 

[wereq]

I thought I'd be treated better in India, not have girls throw themselves at me. But I still got negative looks there and didn't notice any improvement.

You didn't just expect better treatment, you expected IOIs and dating interest but to expect that is wild when you look like a obese homeless neckbeard. Even Indians who aren't that great looking put some effort into dressing decent along with a haircut and a shave; you are unwilling to do even that much so it signals to others that you're a failure.

 

[universallyabhorred]

You didn't just expect better treatment, you expected IOIs and dating interest but to expect that is wild when you look like a obese homeless neckbeard. Even Indians who aren't that great looking put some effort into dressing decent along with a haircut and a shave; you are unwilling to do even that much so it signals to others that you're a failure.

No, I did expect better treatment, by that I meant not receiving negative looks and finding it easier to socialize with people. That didn't happen, I only mentioned the IOIs because you implied it would happen, but I realize that was a misunderstanding, me attacking you for getting IOIs was obviously the wrong course of action. The other expectation I had was that I'd look average in India but still got mogged a lot.

 

[wereq]

The other expectation I had was that I'd look average in India but still got mogged a lot.

You do look average, but the average jeet doesn't get IOIs, even with them putting in more effort than yourself into their dressing and grooming while you don't even do that much, so why do you have inflated expectations and entitlement?

 

[universallyabhorred]

You do look average, but the average jeet doesn't get IOIs, even with them putting in more effort than yourself into their dressing and grooming while you don't even do that much, so why do you have inflated expectations and entitlement?

Then, why did I get negative looks and cold treatment? People still found me ugly there.

 

[wereq]

Then, why did I get negative looks and cold treatment? People still found me ugly there.

They found you ugly because you look ugly, unshapely, obese, high-inhib, and non-functional. Average jeet who is around your looks level and bone structure at least cares to maintain his apperance with haircuts and shave, healthy weight, dresses in fitting clothes, functions in daily life with a job (even if that job isn't all that attractive and rewarding), so society accepts him. In your case, your ugliness is exacerbated by your obesity, lack of fashion sense and basic grooming. non-functional, incompetent, and likely high inhib. Your dysgenics is far higher than the average jeet and it manifests in every aspect of your being from looks to behavior to function so you get bad treatment.

 

[universallyabhorred]

They found you ugly because you look ugly, unshapely, obese, high-inhib, and non-functional. Average jeet who is around your looks level and bone structure at least cares to maintain his apperance with haircuts and shave, healthy weight, dresses in fitting clothes, functions in daily life with a job (even if that job isn't all that attractive and rewarding), so society accepts him. In your case, your ugliness is exacerbated by your obesity, lack of fashion sense and basic grooming. non-functional, incompetent, and likely high inhib. Your dysgenics is far higher than the average jeet and it manifests in every aspect of your being from looks to behavior to function so you get bad treatment.

I disagree with non functional,
incompetent and high inhibition relative to the average jeet. I do not consider myself particularly inferior to the average Jeet looks aside at least currently. I do agree with the rest.

 

[BlackLowLtn]

I’m just curious, outside of weight, how did your looks deteriorate prior to the surgery?

 

[BlackLowLtn]

We will see, but I meant in general. It is worth noting I was 180-190 lbs snd still treated as sub4. On the other hand, I was probably treated as LTN when I got skin treatment and fillers under my eyes most of the time but still occasionally as sub4. I remember one time I did Uber Eats and tried talking to a foid who was also on the app and she gave one word answers lied to me about something and walked away when I was still talking to her.

How tall? 180-190lbs is still considered overweight for shorter people with no muscle, even taller you’d just be skinny fat, which would affect your face severely anyways (unless good fat distribution genetics). This most definitely shouldn’t be the stopping point unless you actually do have a decent amount of muscle mass with it mostly coming from that.

Now it’s sounding like you went fat and never really went back, maybe it’s a little too late now considering you already got filler and treatment (might affect skin elasticity/collagen) but have you ever tried to genuinely lose weight again?

Based on what you described, you don’t have an issue of bad structure that would make weight loss less impactful but rather you just never thought to do the one thing that wouldn’t be an instant fix but a slow grind.
Fillers and surgery is utterly useless when you haven’t tried the bare minimum, the filler itself might start to look odd while losing weight but it’ll eventually dissolve in the end anyways.
You are 25, you still got time and clearly the potential as your underlying structure must be good if you had IOIs in the past (unless you grew ogre bones which isn’t what you described)

 

[universallyabhorred]

I’m just curious, outside of weight, how did your looks deteriorate prior to the surgery?

Mainly nose, also overly big jaw, worse bone structure, forehead, acne and acne scarring, bad facial hair, thinning at end of eyebrows. All this happened due to puberty and further changes, maybe less eyelashes too. Aging also bought worse nasolabial folds, some white hairs, I also got a black spot on my lower lip and more wrinkles, including one between my eyebrows, most of these changes are not very noticeable. People have said I look like a different person between pics where I am 12-16 and 20 or 21.

 

[universallyabhorred]

How tall? 180-190lbs is still considered overweight for shorter people with no muscle, even taller you’d just be skinny fat, which would affect your face severely anyways (unless good fat distribution genetics). This most definitely shouldn’t be the stopping point unless you actually do have a decent amount of muscle mass with it mostly coming from that.

Now it’s sounding like you went fat and never really went back, maybe it’s a little too late now considering you already got filler and treatment (might affect skin elasticity/collagen) but have you ever tried to genuinely lose weight again?

Based on what you described, you don’t have an issue of bad structure that would make weight loss less impactful but rather you just never thought to do the one thing that wouldn’t be an instant fix but a slow grind.
Fillers and surgery is utterly useless when you haven’t tried the bare minimum, the filler itself might start to look odd while losing weight but it’ll eventually dissolve in the end anyways.
You are 25, you still got time and clearly the potential as your underlying structure must be good if you had IOIs in the past (unless you grew ogre bones which isn’t what you described)

Between 5 feet 9 inches and 5 feet 10 inches, yes I had some chubbiness, however there should have been an improvement in treatment from when I was 220 lbs and there was not, in some cases it was even worse. I could have cut another 20 lbs I guess. I think the implant under my eyes made my bone structure more asymmetrical, not sure if it can be fixed, although people say they don't notice it in pics and my eyes look too small due to lower eyelid surgery imo.

I also cut to 170-175 which is very close to a healthy BMI after the surgery, but I still got looks of disgust and negative treatment, maybe slightly better treatment than now. However, I had some bruising and black eyes after the surgery during that time and it took a long time to heal, so that could be a factor. This was before the filler however.

I think my bone structure is kind of bad, here's why before the surgery I had very low cheekbones and extreme under eye hollowness. After the surgery, there is some improvement here but it looks more asymmetrical, plus I got buccal fat removal which will make me look more aged or gaunt.

Also, it is worth noting that I was thin and gymmaxxed for a while in 2018 before the 2019 surgery. It did not help too much, I might have been LTN or even sub4 at times. I am not sure if I got IOIs but there wasn't any explicit signs of interest from women, similarly it didn't exactly help me make friends or get me signficantly better treatment, however I was mentally ill and severely depressed so it's hard to say how much improvement there was looking back, although there was some. I really hated my hollow under eye area, low cheekbones and weak structure but it was likely better than being fat, though not too much. Also thinner during parts of 2017. My nose was overly big too due to thick nose skin, accutane thinned me somewhat but the full effects did not last.

I am currently 28, almost 29.

 

[BlackLowLtn]

Mainly nose, also overly big jaw, worse bone structure, forehead, acne and acne scarring, bad facial hair, thinning at end of eyebrows. All this happened due to puberty and further changes. Aging also bought worse nasolabial folds, some white hairs, I also got a black spot on my lower lip and more wrinkles, including one between my eyebrows, most of these changes are not very noticeable. People have said I look like a different person between pics where I am 12-16 and 20 or 21.

You said you did skincare right? I assume you done Accutane like me as well, have you tried getting prescribed for Taz? Absolute lifesaver with less sides as well, it should help with people not being as judgmental.

Bad facial hair and thinning of eyebrows could’ve just been fixed with grooming, even now despite losing all hope I usually shave my bad facial hair and use an eyebrow razor to atleast look more presentable and clean. Again, you entirely missed the fundamentals and skipped entirely towards the more extreme options.

How big are you currently? A large part of what you described could also be heavily contributed to weight, especially wrinkles. Rapid weight gain can make it somewhat worse by affecting your collagen, although weight loss makes it more obvious skincare and laser surgery would help.

When you say bad bone structure, you mean ogre? Also when you are heavily overweight it will only exaggerate your bones… And 180-190 wouldn’t be a good point of judgement, as you will look sunken in from the rapid weight loss without having lost much weight in your face, making you just look unhealthy (especially without proper dietary balance like carbs for keeping the healthy facial fullness and sodium-potassium for making sure your skin doesn’t dull from it). You can’t just say your bones is now bad when you never even properly seen it, touch your jaw rn, how much does your finger sink in?

 

[BlackLowLtn]

Also, fat distribution is unequal for majority of people; so midway through the weight loss some parts of your face would lose more fat over the other, it looks utterly horrible which is why 180-190lbs was not a good stopping point at all for judging that sort of thing.

 

[universallyabhorred]

You said you did skincare right? I assume you done Accutane like me as well, have you tried getting prescribed for Taz? Absolute lifesaver with less sides as well, it should help with people not being as judgmental.

Bad facial hair and thinning of eyebrows could’ve just been fixed with grooming, even now despite losing all hope I usually shave my bad facial hair and use an eyebrow razor to atleast look more presentable and clean. Again, you entirely missed the fundamentals and skipped entirely towards the more extreme options.

How big are you currently? A large part of what you described could also be heavily contributed to weight, especially wrinkles. Rapid weight gain can make it somewhat worse by affecting your collagen, although weight loss makes it more obvious skincare and laser surgery would help.

When you say bad bone structure, you mean ogre? Also when you are heavily overweight it will only exaggerate your bones… And 180-190 wouldn’t be a good point of judgement, as you will look sunken in from the rapid weight loss without having lost much weight in your face, making you just look unhealthy (especially without proper dietary balance like carbs for keeping the healthy facial fullness and sodium-potassium for making sure your skin doesn’t dull from it). You can’t just say your bones is now bad when you never even properly seen it, touch your jaw rn, how much does your finger sink in?

Yeah, did accutane once and tried again but this time I didn't get good liver tests so I had to stop halfway. Never heard of taz, I will look into it.

You are right about facial hairs but my eyebrows are both gray and thinning on the ends and lacking in length, and I am not even sure how to groom my overly thick eyebrows. I did try some cream to grow more eyebrow hair at the ends and thicker eyelashes but it didn't work, so making them darker, thicker at the end or longer seems impossible.

Now I am around 220, which is bad I know. The wrinkle is only between my eyebrows and is mainly because of overuse of facial expression. Accutane improved my collagen so I don't think that wrinkles are that much of an issue, I did skincare with many creams moisterizer under eye black spot reducer and stuff not just accutane also got laser acne treatment, the results were good. But it didn't last, the acne came back and the skin didn't retain it's attractive texture or coloring.

I mean my bone structure is below average and will never be attractive, maybe average at best for an Indian guy, most likely I am capped at LTN. The problem is also facial ratios and somewhat poor harmony with features such thick wide nose and small mouth. On top of that I have a wide asymmetrical forehead which is short and will always look off. My maxilla and mandible are somewhat recessed too despite having a wide outer jaw and also having a small mouth. My chin is too vertically short.

You are correct I should do more weight loss and really get to a skinny level before judging my bone structure and I will try that. I can guarantee I will never be as attractive as before and during puberty.

 

[BlackLowLtn]

Between 5 feet 9 inches and 5 feet 10 inches, yes I had some chubbiness, however there should have been an improvement in treatment from when I was 220 lbs and there was not, in some cases it was even worse. I could have cut another 20 lbs I guess. I think the implant under my eyes made my bone structure more asymmetrical, not sure if it can be fixed, although people say they don't notice it in pics and my eyes look too small due to lower eyelid surgery imo.

I also cut to 170-175 which is very close to a healthy BMI after the surgery, but I still got looks of disgust and negative treatment, maybe slightly better treatment than now. However, I had some bruising and black eyes after the surgery during that time and it took a long time to heal, so that could be a factor. This was before the filler however.

I think my bone structure is kind of bad, here's why before the surgery I had very low cheekbones and extreme under eye hollowness. After the surgery, there is some improvement here but it looks more asymmetrical, plus I got buccal fat removal which will make me look more aged or gaunt.

Also, it is worth noting that I was thin and gymmaxxed for a while in 2018 before the 2019 surgery. It did not help too much, I might have been LTN or even sub4 at times. I am not sure if I got IOIs but there wasn't any explicit signs of interest from women, similarly it didn't exactly help me make friends or get me signficantly better treatment, however I was mentally ill and severely depressed so it's hard to say how much improvement there was looking back, although there was some. I really hated my hollow under eye area, low cheekbones and weak structure but it was likely better than being fat, though not too much. Also thinner during parts of 2017. My nose was overly big too due to thick nose skin, accutane thinned me somewhat but the full effects did not last.

I am currently 28, almost 29.

Buccal fat removal??? Jfl, sorry you just utterly cooked the main thing that keeps youthfulness, should’ve just continued on losing weight instead. Buccal fat gives you that healthy facial fullness people have even at their thinnest and stops droop alongside your structure(and ironically only people with crazy good structure could do buccal removal without affecting their perceived age much as their structure holds up their face)… An utter meme to remove it, only retards in .org push it and you yourself are still currently overweight even at 170lbs, that shouldn’t have been an option unless you seen yourself fully lean.

Also buccal removal is even worse with low cheekbones jfl, high cheekbones at least would act like a shelf for how your face would naturally lift up. Again, sounds less like you have genuinely bad structure.

Bruising after the surgery could’ve also affected it but it sounds like you don’t actively groom yourself either outside of just trying to treat acne. How dull is your skin currently? Even with acne, if your skin doesn’t have a healthy and plump look then you should be focusing on that as well, it would make the dead look from buccal removal look even worse.

If Accutane thinned your nose, then your nose is likely heavily inflammed rather than it being just huge, or atleast partially the size due to it. How is your sebum production? Do you produce oil very frequently, especially around the nose?
Again, ironically if you do it is due to your weight though, or atleast your old weight. Sebum production heavily spikes alongside inflammation like acne when you are overweight, especially heavily overweight in the past as your insulin spikes…

How thin were you in 2018? I assume you still was somewhat overweight, or higher end of healthy range based on everything else you been saying. Also have you did everything else I said during the time? If you didn’t, then ofc you’d look like utter shit. You would need to look clean at least, skincare for the acne isn’t enough for that.

28, almost 29? You genuinely do sound like you have a chance unlike most of us, don’t waste your life.

 

[universallyabhorred]

Buccal fat removal??? Jfl, sorry you just utterly cooked the main thing that keeps youthfulness, should’ve just continued on losing weight instead. Buccal fat gives you that healthy facial fullness people have even at their thinnest and stops droop alongside your structure(and ironically only people with crazy good structure could do buccal removal without affecting their perceived age much as their structure holds up their face)… An utter meme to remove it, only retards in .org push it and you yourself are still currently overweight even at 170lbs, that shouldn’t have been an option unless you seen yourself fully lean.

Also buccal removal is even worse with low cheekbones jfl, high cheekbones at least would act like a shelf for how your face would naturally lift up. Again, sounds less like you have genuinely bad structure.

Bruising after the surgery could’ve also affected it but it sounds like you don’t actively groom yourself either outside of just trying to treat acne. How dull is your skin currently? Even with acne, if your skin doesn’t have a healthy and plump look then you should be focusing on that as well, it would make the dead look from buccal removal look even worse.

If Accutane thinned your nose, then your nose is likely heavily inflammed rather than it being just huge, or atleast partially the size due to it. How is your sebum production? Do you produce oil very frequently, especially around the nose?
Again, ironically if you do it is due to your weight though, or atleast your old weight. Sebum production heavily spikes alongside inflammation like acne when you are overweight, especially heavily overweight in the past as your insulin spikes…

How thin were you in 2018? I assume you still was somewhat overweight, or higher end of healthy range based on everything else you been saying. Also have you did everything else I said during the time? If you didn’t, then ofc you’d look like utter shit. You would need to look clean at least, skincare for the acne isn’t enough for that.

28, almost 29? You genuinely do sound like you have a chance unlike most of us, don’t waste your life.

You sound like you have a lot of knowledge about looksmaxxing and yeah I regret getting the buccal fat removal. I never had much or any access to people with much understanding of this stuff, I only went on to looksmax after the surgery and even then didn't really get good advice. Do you have discord, I can add you, can we talk on there more about this stuff? I have been looking for good advice on looksmaxxing for so long and grooming and all I get are noobs telling me to lose weight.

It's true I don't groom myself and I am not even sure how to do it. It's pretty dull honestly. Surgeons mentioned I have thick nose skin and I should thin it with accutane. My nose does seem pretty oily when I touch it. I had no idea sebum production was worsened by being overweight.

Probably higher end of healthy range and no all I did was gymcel. and the occasional haircut. 28 or 29 is pretty old as far as dating is concerned, my best bet is betabuxxing but even for that to work and not get cucked I need to looksmax.

 

[BlackLowLtn]

Yeah, did accutane once and tried again but this time I didn't get good liver tests so I had to stop halfway. Never heard of taz, I will look into it.

You are right about facial hairs but my eyebrows are both gray and thinning on the ends and lacking in length, and I am not even sure how to groom my overly thick eyebrows. I did try some cream to grow more eyebrow hair at the ends and thicker eyelashes but it didn't work, so making them darker, thicker at the end or longer seems impossible.

Now I am around 220, which is bad I know. The wrinkle is only between my eyebrows and is mainly because of overuse of facial expression. Accutane improved my collagen so I don't think that wrinkles are that much of an issue, I did skincare with many creams moisterizer under eye black spot reducer and stuff not just accutane also got laser acne treatment, the results were good. But it didn't last, the acne came back and the skin didn't retain it's attractive texture or coloring.

I mean my bone structure is below average and will never be attractive, maybe average at best for an Indian guy, most likely I am capped at LTN. The problem is also facial ratios and somewhat poor harmony with features such thick wide nose and small mouth. On top of that I have a wide asymmetrical forehead which is short and will always look off. My maxilla and mandible are somewhat recessed too despite having a wide outer jaw and also having a small mouth. My chin is too vertically short.

You are correct I should do more weight loss and really get to a skinny level before judging my bone structure and I will try that. I can guarantee I will never be as attractive as before and during puberty.

You likely won’t be chad or anything, I’m just saying that you might at the very least find a wife, your current ratios would be affected by your bodyweight, like your cheek fullness makes your midface seem wider and more long as most people mostly build fat around there, which would also make your chin/forehead seem too short, though structurally they might be short, it will improve and more importantly look more natural if you were lean. Although your maxilla won’t change in projection, how your midface is perceived definitely would, and even if you have a bad mandible it doesn’t matter unless you are trying to be utterly perfect.

I’m not telling you that you would ascend in a way that you see looksmax normies do on TikTok or something, but you realistically have a chance for at least Mtn; I don’t think most Indians would have the bone mass you just described, and even if you grew ogre in certain areas compered to when you were in puberty you still would’ve held the general blueprint under all the weight, which would only be seen lean.

 

[universallyabhorred]

You likely won’t be chad or anything, I’m just saying that you might at the very least find a wife, your current ratios would be affected by your bodyweight, like your cheek fullness makes your midface seem wider and more long as most people mostly build fat around there, which would also make your chin/forehead seem too short, though structurally they might be short, it will improve and more importantly look more natural if you were lean. Although your maxilla won’t change in projection, how your midface is perceived definitely would, and even if you have a bad mandible it doesn’t matter unless you are trying to be utterly perfect.

I’m not telling you that you would ascend in a way that you see looksmax normies do on TikTok or something, but you realistically have a chance for at least Mtn; I don’t think most Indians would have the bone mass you just described, and even if you grew ogre in certain areas compered to when you were in puberty you still would’ve held the general blueprint under all the weight, which would only be seen lean.

Thanks for the hope, I really need some guidance, can we chat more?

 

[BlackLowLtn]

This is why exercise is necessary.

Unironically right

 

[MajorThomas666]

I am 28, and almost turning 29.

Face rating 5-6 childhood up until age 16-17. Easier time making friends, nicer treatment by strangers and customer service. Positive looks from girls, occasional smiles or girls I didn't know calling me cute. Still unpopular due to autism but not a complete outcast, easy making friends with LTNs who were also unpopular. Had quite a few acquaintances people who'd talk to me but wouldn't hang out since I was unpopular. You almost never get negative looks from passerby, extremely rare, in the cases it happened can be explained by racism. Also, way more IOIs a significant percentage like 20 percent.

Face rating 4-5 age 16-19, occasionally when I was thinner age 21, 22 and also 23-24 Biggest difference is no foids show interest or ever complimented me on my appearance. Other than that, it is harder making friends and nearly impossible making friends or acquaintances with 6+ people. If foids give IOIs or any positive attention it is rare like 1 or 2 percent. You occasionally get negative looks from passerby not too much, less stares but still a few. It's possible to socialize with foids if you try and they will occasionally have conversations, but they don't really care about you or attracted to you, friendzone is the most likely. You can maybe get a very fat or ugly female with effort and you won't have much power in the relationship. There are places you are not welcome such as night clubs, bars and fraternities, I still remember getting dirty look by a white foid in a bar and by frat recruiters. I had a few acquaintances and friends IRL when I was 18-19 but nothing since then. Of course, it is worth noting that I am autistic and my social experiences would have been better if I was NT. In group projects, people ask you for your opinion or at least try to include you. Occasionally uglier or fatter women are nice to you, generally with service, most women are still cold to you. There is overlap in these years between LTN and sub4 so it is not always clear where I was.

Face rating 3-4 age 24/25-now This is arguably the worst. I haven't been able to have a single long conversation with anyone not even men, make a joke that people laugh at unless it's making fun of me, no acquaintances or friends at all. Women hate my guts, I often get negative looks or people avoiding looking at me. Women don't even want to talk to me. Never get any IOIs, customer service is often rude to me frequently doesn't say thank you, bye or hi while saying it to other people. Ostracized in groups, people don't even ask for your opinion in group projects and almost never make small talk, even when they do it is a rare exception, out of pity or making sure you are not a threat. It's really hard at this level, because you recognize everyone is against you and it's hard to find people at this level, even when you do, they often don't like you. I remember a few brutal instances in one case I was stared at with a look of disgust by these two foids and they held eye contact. In another case, I noticed people didn't like to walk in the same place as me in the park and these two old ladies who saw me walking changed where they were sitting down. Also, there was one case where I went to a store, and this guy looked at me and walked out and the employee working there who was sub4 actually apologized to him, might have been coincidence, I hope. At least the employee was nice to me though he felt sorry for me. Another one was when I was walking a group of curry foids in ear shot said something like ugly people shouldn't go outside, surprisingly I don't think they saw me, but the fact they talk about it so openly made me mad. I wasn't even particularly fat then, just a bit overweight, but my facial structure looked strange, probably due to the implant. Some people rate me LTN back then but based on how I was treated I was definitely sub4. I still get this treatment today, I am hoping losing weight bring me up to LTN otherwise I will spend my whole life being treated this way.

@TheGrayWolf thoughts? Do you see any differences in treatment between having a deformity and being 3-4?

Brutal 6.4 to 4. 18 to 29. I literally looked more mature as a teen