[Gymcelling] Leg exercises before arm exercises increase gainz

[CroMagnonBoy]

According to this article, compound leg exercises before hitting arm muscle groups increase your muscle gains overall.
https://www.t-nation.com/workouts/testosterone-advantage-training

The mechanism of the higher gain is that exercising leg muscle groups maximize the release of testosterone and hgh, which works to increase growth of arm muscle growth.

Never skip leg day, boyos. In fact, always start with the legs first.

 

[CopingGymcel]

It doesn't. A temporary increase in testosterone has no effect on your gains, just like a temporary increase in cortisol has no effect on muscle breakdown. It has to be elevated throughout the day for it to have any effect.

You should train legs, but not because you want bigger arms. You should train them to have a balanced physique.

 

[CroMagnonBoy]

It doesn't. A temporary increase in testosterone has no effect on your gains, just like a temporary increase in cortisol has no effect on muscle breakdown. It has to be elevated throughout the day for it to have any effect.

That would be wrong, because even a short temporary burst does have an effect.
The reason the levels go back down quickly in the first place is due to them binding to receptors and thus causing anabolic effects on muscles. Either that or they get converted to something else / flushed out by the liver.

 

[CopingGymcel]

That would be wrong, because even a short temporary burst does have an effect.

It really doesn't though.

 

[Deleted member 3291]

You should train legs, but not because you want bigger arms. You should train them to have a balanced physique.

 

[CroMagnonBoy]

It really doesn't though.

Testosterone doesn't have to be present for long to have anabolic effects.

 

[CopingGymcel]

Testosterone doesn't have to be present for long to have anabolic effects.

Ok, let's say you're right (you're not), the effect that it would have would be so small that you wouldn't even notice.

I would go as far as to say that you could get worse arm gains from training them after legs, as you would already be exhausted from leg training and thus would not be able to give it your all. When I'm done training legs, the last thing I want to do is train another muscle group (unless we're talking full body workout with low volume).

 

[CroMagnonBoy]

Ok, let's say you're right (you're not), the effect that it would have would be so small that you wouldn't even notice.

Of course it would be if you never exercised the arms. If you did them before exercising the arms, it would likely amplify the anabolic effect noticeably.

"After 11 weeks, the right biceps, which had been trained during the same session as legs, was significantly bigger and stronger than the left biceps. The researchers found higher levels of GH and testosterone during leg plus arm-training sessions and concluded that they were responsible for the additional growth and strength in the right arm."

 

[CopingGymcel]

Of course it would be if you never exercised the arms. If you did them before exercising the arms, it would likely amplify the anabolic effect noticeably.

You're overvaluing the effects that a temporary increase in testosterone has on your gains. You're also overvaluing the effect that testosterone has on muscle building within the natural limit. If you were to increase your testosterone from 600 to 800, you wouldn't notice much of a difference. Now on the other hand, if you were to take it to a supraphysiological level, of let's say 1800, that's where you'd really start seeing a difference.

 

[CroMagnonBoy]

You're overvaluing the effects that a temporary increase in testosterone has on your gains. You're also overvaluing the effect that testosterone has on muscle building within the natural limit. If you were to increase your testosterone from 600 to 800, you wouldn't notice much of a difference. Now on the other hand, if you were to take it to a supraphysiological level, of let's say 1800, that's where you'd really start seeing a difference.

True, but it's not really the systematic improvement. The anabolic effects are mostly from a huge local increase of testosterone which is sufficient enough for anabolism. The systematic increase also helps contribute to it as well.

You also have to remember the increase of HGH acts with the testosterone to amplify it.

 

[CopingGymcel]

True, but it's not really the systematic improvement. The anabolic effects are mostly from a huge local increase of testosterone which is sufficient enough for anabolism. The systematic increase also helps contribute to it as well.

You also have to remember the increase of HGH acts with the testosterone to amplify it.

HGH itself isn't anabolic. It's the IGF-1 that comes from the release of HGH that is anabolic. It also has to be elevated over a long period of time for to have any significant effect. So a temporary increase in HGH certainly won't have any effect on your muscle building abilities whatsoever.
Even bodybuilders who take huge amounts of HGH need at least 6 months to see any real results.

I think you're better off thinking about leg training as leg training and arm training as arm training. Complicating things and focusing on small unimportant details isn't what's going to give you gains. Be consistent and eat your food, and you'll grow. Whether or not you train your arms after your legs or whatever you choose to do, it won't have any significant effect.

 

[CroMagnonBoy]

HGH itself isn't anabolic. It's the IGF-1 that comes from the release of HGH that is anabolic. It also has to be elevated over a long period of time for to have any significant effect. So a temporary increase in HGH certainly won't have any effect on your muscle building abilities whatsoever.
Even bodybuilders who take huge amounts of HGH need at least 6 months to see any real results.

I think you're better off thinking about leg training as leg training and arm training as arm training. Complicating things and focusing on small unimportant details isn't what's going to give you gains. Be consistent and eat your food, and you'll grow. Whether or not you train your arms after your legs or whatever you choose to do, it won't have any significant effect.

It causes a cascade of many anabolic hormones, so you're definitely right in a way that testosterone and hgh alone doesn't cause the massive increase. It's more indirectly increasing size gains.

But it could be overblown too. So I might try leg training before arm exercises and report back how it works out.

 

[CopingGymcel]

It causes a cascade of many anabolic hormones, so you're definitely right in a way that testosterone and hgh alone doesn't cause the massive increase. It's more indirectly increasing size gains.

But it could be overblown too. So I might try leg training before arm exercises and report back how it works out.

If you like training arms after legs, then sure, go ahead. But if you don't like it, then don't.

What sort of split are you running? Are you training your muscles 2-3 times a week?

 

[CroMagnonBoy]

If you like training arms after legs, then sure, go ahead. But if you don't like it, then don't.

What sort of split are you running? Are you training your muscles 2-3 times a week?

I've been training at least 5 times a week, mostly at home.

Mostly exercises that involve compound movements since I don't have heavy equipment to work with, just dumbbells.

 

[CopingGymcel]

I've been training at least 5 times a week, mostly at home.

Mostly exercises that involve compound movements since I don't have heavy equipment to work with, just dumbbells.

Just remember a frequency of hitting each muscle at least 2 times a week, as muscle protein synthesis only lasts for about 48 hours, so if you blast a muscle so hard it has to spend a week recovering, that doesn't mean it'll grow during that entire week.

 

[CroMagnonBoy]

Just remember a frequency of hitting each muscle at least 2 times a week, as muscle protein synthesis only lasts for about 48 hours, so if you blast a muscle so hard it has to spend a week recovering, that doesn't mean it'll grow during that entire week.

I've been hitting it almost every day in the past with little growth. Should I be spacing it out instead for maximum growth? Is that why I had trouble getting any size?

 

[CopingGymcel]

I've been hitting it almost every day in the past with little growth. Should I be spacing it out instead for maximum growth? Is that why I had trouble getting any size?

Your muscles do need some rest.

Training 3 days a week and hitting your entire body is probably ideal.

How heavy are your dumbbells?

 

[CroMagnonBoy]

Your muscles do need some rest.

Training 3 days a week and hitting your entire body is probably ideal.

How heavy are your dumbbells?

25 pounds are how heavy my dumbbells are.
What's the best way to get maximum growth with just 25 pounds? What duration?

 

[CopingGymcel]

25 pounds are how heavy my dumbbells are.
What's the best way to get maximum growth with just 25 pounds? What duration?

You're going to have a hard to getting great gains in the long run with those light dumbbells, but I think you can make it work if you incorporate bodyweight exercises into your workout.

Pullups, dips and different variations of those. Handstand pushups. etc etc. Look into calisthenics. You're much better of getting good at calisthenics than being limited by some light dumbbells.



It's also the most NT workouts you can do.

 

[CroMagnonBoy]

You're going to have a hard to getting great gains in the long run with those light dumbbells, but I think you can make it work if you incorporate bodyweight exercises into your workout.

Pullups, dips and different variations of those. Handstand pushups. etc etc. Look into calisthenics. You're much better of getting good at calisthenics than being limited by some light dumbbells.



It's also the most NT workouts you can do.

What about variations of delt flys with that weight?

 

[CopingGymcel]

What about variations of delt flys with that weight?

Flys are pretty useless for the most part imo. You're better off doing chest dips and pushups variations.

 

[CroMagnonBoy]

Flys are pretty useless for the most part imo. You're better off doing chest dips and pushups variations.

Even for increasing arm size? I'd assumed they would be useful since it targets isolated muscle groups.

 

[CopingGymcel]

Even for increasing arm size? I'd assumed they would be useful since it targets isolated muscle groups.

Flyes are for the chest.

If you want bigger arms: Pullups/chinups and dips. Those work more than the arms, too, so you get more out of the exercise. Pushups are also nice for chest, triceps and shoulders.

If you do a bunch of pullups, dips and pushups, you'll probably have exhausted your arms quite well.

 

[Reddit_is_for_cucks]

Naw, my quads get freakishly big and I look like a cartoon. I need bigger calves which are genetics

 

[CroMagnonBoy]

Flyes are for the chest.

If you want bigger arms: Pullups/chinups and dips. Those work more than the arms, too, so you get more out of the exercise. Pushups are also nice for chest, triceps and shoulders.

If you do a bunch of pullups, dips and pushups, you'll probably have exhausted your arms quite well.

I've felt my arms be the most exhausted from pull ups, so I think I'll go with doing as many as those as possible. Hopefully my arms will grow significantly from this, tired of being noodle-armed.

 

[CopingGymcel]

I've felt my arms be the most exhausted from pull ups, so I think I'll go with doing as many as those as possible. Hopefully my arms will grow significantly from this, tired of being noodle-armed.

Just remember to eat in a calorie surplus and get enough protein or you won't grow no matter how hard you train.

Mine are 17.5", I'm somewhat content with that, but trying to reach 18".

 

[CroMagnonBoy]

Just remember to eat in a calorie surplus and get enough protein or you won't grow no matter how hard you train.

Mine are 17.5", I'm somewhat content with that, but trying to reach 18".

I'm kind of going through a cutting phase, so that might be detrimental to my growth. But since I've trimmed the fat from my stomach, I think I'm ready to start bulking.

How do I make sure all the calories go to muscle growth?

 

[CopingGymcel]

I'm kind of going through a cutting phase, so that might be detrimental to my growth. But since I've trimmed the fat from my stomach, I think I'm ready to start bulking.

How do I make sure all the calories go to muscle growth?

Find out how many calories you need a day to stay the same weight, then add 300. Try to get 0.8-1g of protein per lbs of body weight.