JFL User complains that downloading softwares is too complicated

[AsiaCel]

To be honest I agree.

I don't code outside of work, and I don't even have half of the building tools/code editors in my personal PC, and building things is ridiciously annoying because in some places like Android, it will never run the first time.


View: https://x.com/imagesaicouldnt/status/1998799879548613072

 

[TooSomething]

Once upon a time I have wanted to develop apps for Android, just for fun.

 

[AsiaCel]

Once upon a time I have wanted to develop apps for Android, just for fun.

It's way harder than web dev and way harder than it looks. I'm currently working on Android apps and you have to account for different versions of Android and the screen sizes, that is just the tip of the iceberg. Not to mention endless errors and dependency hell.

Some apps downright won't work for newer versions of Android.
One issue being Page Size of dependencies. If you work with drones like me, then it's straight up not practical customizing the dependencies, or can do it at all.

 

[TooSomething]

It's way harder than web dev and way harder than it looks.

Web development as in developing websites?

I am sure it ain't no walk in the park.

 

[AsiaCel]

Web development as in developing websites?

I am sure it ain't no walk in the park.

Yes, Web dev as in building websites.

I will give you an example why web dev is much easier.

For most parts you don't deal with async operations or multithreading much, and if you do it is often very simple. The only example where you can find these is on javascript (because you want to load things while waiting for an web response) and web calls.

For Android, everything is multithreading and async. The freeze-until-everything-is-loaded will not fly in Android apps or you will have tons of user complaints; Android is not designed for single threading either, you must handle multithreading yourself, for example, you must run UI changes on UI thread when you are in a callback or something.

 

[TooSomething]

Yes, Web dev as in building websites.

I will give you an example why web dev is much easier.

For most parts you don't deal with async operations or multithreading much, and if you do it is often very simple. The only example where you can find these is on javascript (because you want to load things while waiting for an web response) and web calls.

For Android, everything is multithreading and async. The freeze-until-everything-is-loaded will not fly in Android apps or you will have tons of user complaints; Android is not designed for single threading either, you must handle multithreading yourself, for example, you must run UI changes on UI thread when you are in a callback or something.

Multithreading as in, usage of multiple cpu threads (cores), right?

 

[wereq]

For Android, everything is multithreading and async. The freeze-until-everything-is-loaded will not fly in Android apps or you will have tons of user complaints; Android is not designed for single threading either, you must handle multithreading yourself, for example, you must run UI changes on UI thread when you are in a callback or something.

This is where the coding skills and software engineering knowledge really kicks in!

 

[Dead End]

Don't GitHub pages typically have release pages with download links to pre-built packages if you scroll down? This has been the case with everything I've downloaded from GitHub, at least.

 

[nazianime]

JFL, been trying to compile mpv for 2 weeks because all the damm dependencies it has. My current version gives me a black or green artifacts when playing older files I downloaded from YouTube.

I have to agree with the dude. MPCHC-BE just werks one click install and all the files play correctly.

 

[AsiaCel]

Multithreading as in, usage of multiple cpu threads (cores), right?

Yes and no. CPU cores are automated, it's decided by the program itself, but tasks are allocated to different cores.

Though I don't really care for this myself. I only use multi threading (tasks) if I'm forced to do so, e.g. networking calls

 

[AsiaCel]

JFL, been trying to compile mpv for 2 weeks because all the damm dependencies it has. My current version gives me a black or green artifacts when playing older files I downloaded from YouTube.

I have to agree with the dude. MPCHC-BE just werks one click install and all the files play correctly.

What's Mpv? Media player for Linux?

 

[AsiaCel]

Don't GitHub pages typically have release pages with download links to pre-built packages if you scroll down? This has been the case with everything I've downloaded from GitHub, at least.

Not all. Lots of uploaders assume

1). The dependencies still work months after the date of upload
2). The user knows how to complie (build) the program

 

[AsiaCel]

This is where the coding skills and software engineering knowledge really kicks in!

Tbh I seldomly use coding outside of work, except fixing for example, something hyper specialized

 

[nazianime]

What's Mpv? Media player for Linux?

Yea, it’s supposed be to the goat on Linux. I have vlc too but that gives me green artifacts on the files. Mpv just gives up and shows a black screen while audio is playing.

 

[Todd Thundercock]

Github is hell for the common person that just wants to download an .exe. And, to be fair, Github's design is trash and navigation is annoying even if you do know how to compile.

 

[AsiaCel]

@TooSomething Read up on callback hell problems of JavaScript, now imagine everything in the code relies on callbacks, and you have to handle it every time you restart an "activity" in the app, think it as a page.

Android code demands you write it in an almost unreadable way.

Example in normal web app

async LoadPage() {
try {
await string username = GetNameFromUser(this.IncelID);
this.ViewBag.DisplayUser = username;
} catch (Exception e)
logger.Log(e.GetMessage(k);
}
}

Now in Android app

MainPage(){
XListener listener;
XWidget xWidget

onCreate() {
xWidget = findViewById(R.id.XWidget);

xWidget.addOnLoadListener(widget -> {
@override
public void methodYouWontUse1()
{}
@override
public void methodYouWontUse2()
{}
@override
public void methodYouWontUse3()
{}
@override
public void OnLoadWidget(XWidget widget)
{
try {
strong username = getNameFromUser();

if (!username.isEmpty())
{
runOnUiThread(() -> {
widget.setText(username);
});
}
else
CreateToast("no username");
}
} catch (Exception e)
Log.d("error", "billions must die" + e.getMessage()):
}
}
listener = xWidget.GetListener();
}
onDestroy()
{
if (listener != null)
xWidget.removeListener(listener)
}
}

 

[AsiaCel]

@TooSomething Read up on callback hell problems of JavaScript, now imagine everything in the code relies on callbacks, and you have to handle it every time you restart an "activity" in the app, think it as a page.

Android code demands you write it in an almost unreadable way.

Example in normal web app

async LoadPage() {
await string username = GetNameFromUser(this.IncelID);
this.ViewBag.DisplayUser = username;
}

Now in Android app

MainPage(){
XListener listener;
XWidget xWidget

onCreate() {
xWidget = findViewById(R.id.XWidget);

xWidget.addOnLoadListener(widget -> {
@override
public void methodYouWontUse1()
{}
@override
public void methodYouWontUse2()
{}
@override
public void methodYouWontUse3()
{}
@override
public void OnLoadWidget()
{
try {
strong username = getNameFromUser();
runOnUiThread(() -> {
if (!username.isEmpty())
{
getViewById(R.id.label).setText(username);
}
else
CreateToast("no username");
}
} catch (Exception e)
Log.d("error", "billions must die" + e.getMessage()):
}
});
}
listener = xWidget.GetListener();
}
onDestroy()
{
if (listener != null)
xWidget.removeListener(listener)
}
}

@wereq just fucking lol at android programming

 

[TooSomething]

@TooSomething Read up on callback hell problems of JavaScript, now imagine everything in the code relies on callbacks, and you have to handle it every time you restart an "activity" in the app, think it as a page.

Android code demands you write it in an almost unreadable way.

Example in normal web app

async LoadPage() {
try {
await string username = GetNameFromUser(this.IncelID);
this.ViewBag.DisplayUser = username;
} catch (Exception e)
logger.Log(e.GetMessage(k);
}
}

Now in Android app

MainPage(){
XListener listener;
XWidget xWidget

onCreate() {
xWidget = findViewById(R.id.XWidget);

xWidget.addOnLoadListener(widget -> {
@override
public void methodYouWontUse1()
{}
@override
public void methodYouWontUse2()
{}
@override
public void methodYouWontUse3()
{}
@override
public void OnLoadWidget(XWidget widget)
{
try {
strong username = getNameFromUser();

if (!username.isEmpty())
{
runOnUiThread(() -> {
widget.setText(username);
});
}
else
CreateToast("no username");
}
} catch (Exception e)
Log.d("error", "billions must die" + e.getMessage()):
}
}
listener = xWidget.GetListener();
}
onDestroy()
{
if (listener != null)
xWidget.removeListener(listener)
}
}

I have no idea what I have just read. It's been A WHILE since the last time I've coded anything and I am a rookie compared to you.

I've only done Java on Windows.

Managed to write actual programs, but basic stuff.

 

[AsiaCel]

I have no idea what I have just read. It's been A WHILE since the last time I've coded anything and I am a rookie compared to you.

I've only done Java on Windows.

Managed to write actual programs, but basic stuff.

Stay away from Android apps if you don't want to rip your hair out. Web development is the most important and the pay is almost as good if not better. Web Dev is way more predictable.

Did I mention that in Android, errors usually make no sense and that you have to plug in your phone to the USB port to your PC every time you want to debug with any sort of realism (lots of apps do not support the computer CPU ran emulator and only supports x64, the actual CPU on a real phone)

If your boss demands you do this and that by next week, it's reasonable for Web Dev, but for Android you won't know when you will complete the app.

 

[wereq]

@TooSomething Read up on callback hell problems of JavaScript, now imagine everything in the code relies on callbacks, and you have to handle it every time you restart an "activity" in the app, think it as a page.

Android code demands you write it in an almost unreadable way.

Example in normal web app

async LoadPage() {
try {
await string username = GetNameFromUser(this.IncelID);
this.ViewBag.DisplayUser = username;
} catch (Exception e)
logger.Log(e.GetMessage(k);
}
}

Now in Android app

MainPage(){
XListener listener;
XWidget xWidget

onCreate() {
xWidget = findViewById(R.id.XWidget);

xWidget.addOnLoadListener(widget -> {
@override
public void methodYouWontUse1()
{}
@override
public void methodYouWontUse2()
{}
@override
public void methodYouWontUse3()
{}
@override
public void OnLoadWidget(XWidget widget)
{
try {
strong username = getNameFromUser();

if (!username.isEmpty())
{
runOnUiThread(() -> {
widget.setText(username);
});
}
else
CreateToast("no username");
}
} catch (Exception e)
Log.d("error", "billions must die" + e.getMessage()):
}
}
listener = xWidget.GetListener();
}
onDestroy()
{
if (listener != null)
xWidget.removeListener(listener)
}
}

Yeah need to have strong fundamentals in asynchronous programming paradigm and experience with Android to get things working.

 

[AsiaCel]

Yeah need to have strong fundamentals in asynchronous programming paradigm and experience with Android to get things working.

It's hell. Everything has to be handled, or you will have listeners that still listen beyond the current activity and thus memory leak.

You can't cheat and put everything on UI thread too because android does not allow you to freeze for 5 seconds without the freeze popup and this is bad for user experience.

Thats the life of a developer outside the USA. You have to do everything from UI design to C++ programs to android apps. Maybe better for large companies but still required to be adaptive.

 

[TooSomething]

Stay away from Android apps if you don't want to rip your hair out. Web development is the most important and the pay is almost as good if not better. Web Dev is way more predictable.

Did I mention that in Android, errors usually make no sense and that you have to plug in your phone to the USB port to your PC every time you want to debug with any sort of realism (lots of apps do not support the computer CPU ran emulator and only supports x64, the actual CPU on a real phone)

If your boss demands you do this and that by next week, it's reasonable for Web Dev, but for Android you won't know when you will complete the app.

I am not a developer. I work as a lathe operator.

 

[wereq]

It's hell.

Yes, because it ventures into lower level programming (operating system stuff). A lot of what you're trying to manage is dealt with by the operating system behind the scenes but since you have to manage this yourself, your abstraction is lost and your programming has become complex. Proper software engineering requires maintaining layers of abstraction and not permeating into lower layers for the sake of minimizing complexity.
Dealing with this kind of hell is what ethnic STEM slaves are for.

 

[AsiaCel]

I am not a developer. I work as a lathe operator.

I saw enough videos on the internet to know that this may be one of the worst jobs ever.

 

[AsiaCel]

Yes, because it ventures into lower level programming (operating system stuff). A lot of what you're trying to manage is dealt with by the operating system behind the scenes but since you have to manage this yourself, your abstraction is lost and your programming has become complex. Proper software engineering requires maintaining layers of abstraction and not permeating into lower layers for the sake of minimizing complexity.
Dealing with this kind of hell is what ethnic STEM slaves are for.

Even if you managed to deal with this, the UI is another horrifying experience. You never know when someone has a small phone, and that the button does not show up at all because his phone is too small and there is no resizing the phone like you resize a browser window.

There is no "bootstrap" for Android. There are three types of layout, linearlayout, constrainlayout, relativelayout all three with their own syntax and rules.

Want some modern looking buttons (such as the material components) and functions? Too bad, some dependencies are too old and literally do not allow material components to be added without crashing.

 

[wereq]

Yes, because it ventures into lower level programming (operating system stuff). A lot of what you're trying to manage is dealt with by the operating system behind the scenes but since you have to manage this yourself, your abstraction is lost and your programming has become complex. Proper software engineering requires maintaining layers of abstraction and not permeating into lower layers for the sake of minimizing complexity.
Dealing with this kind of hell is what ethnic STEM slaves are for.

@Diddy thoughts?

 

[TooSomething]

I saw enough videos on the internet to know that this may be one of the worst jobs ever.

It is a very dangerous one. One of my co-workers has once almost killed another co-worker of mine because he misunderstood a command and turned on the machine while the spanner was still stuck in the lathe chuck.

The rpm was set to some 500 rpm because it was a huge piece.

That spanner of course flew out and almost against the head of the other co-worker.

I've heard the bang against my CNC machine, immediately hit the emergency shut down, thinking that my CNC machine crashed and then realized what had happened.

Man, my heart sank into my pants, as we say in German.

Brutal experience, and that co-worker had recently quit his job to move back to his hometown and work there.
He almost would have never made it... .

 

[Sex-Starved Beast]

I agree, github is not meant for the average user who's tech illitterate and just wants to download programs and run them like on the play store. But then what is he trying to do with Linux? Especially with that attitude. If you hate code so much, just use Windows.

 

[Diddy]

@Diddy thoughts?

What is this post about? Does he want to create his own distro? He should first learn the basics like handling multiple threads with synchronization, load multiple user programs at once, using a virtual memory mapping table for each process, and maintaining a file system.

 

[wereq]

What is this post about? Does he want to create his own distro? He should first learn the basics like handling multiple threads with synchronization, load multiple user programs at once, using a virtual memory mapping table for each process, and maintaining a file system.

No he is working on the application layer but has to handle OS level stuff.

 

[Emba]

It is a very dangerous one. One of my co-workers has once almost killed another co-worker of mine because he misunderstood a command and turned on the machine while the spanner was still stuck in the lathe chuck.

The rpm was set to some 500 rpm because it was a huge piece.

That spanner of course flew out and almost against the head of the other co-worker.

I've heard the bang against my CNC machine, immediately hit the emergency shut down, thinking that my CNC machine crashed and then realized what had happened.

Man, my heart sank into my pants, as we say in German.

Brutal experience, and that co-worker had recently quit his job to move back to his hometown and work there.
He almost would have never made it... .

I was machinist in 80's!

Turns me!

 

[TooSomething]

I was machinist in 80's!

Turns me!

And look, you've survived that crap. Congratulation, wise man.

 

[Emba]

And look, you've survived that crap. Congratulation, wise man.

I never did get a all-in-one minimill.... );

 

[TooSomething]

I never did get a all-in-one minimill.... );

you mean the ones from China? They are pretty good if you tune them a bit.

I just might get myself one if it suffice my future needs..

 

[Emba]

you mean the ones from China? They are pretty good if you tune them a bit.

I just might get myself one if it suffice my future needs..

Not sure where from.

Could have made some cool guns and stuff

 

[TooSomething]

Not sure where from.

Could have made some cool guns and stuff

No guns for my german face.

 

[Trident]

endless errors and dependency hell.

Loonix experience

 

[Emba]

No guns for my german face.

There's no luger for you're Krieger

 

[AsiaCel]

There's no luger for you're Krieger

Unless you want the take over Europe, and off yourself when you fail I guess.