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Serious The real problem with the "entitlement" argument

Opus132

Opus132

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The issue with this argument is that those who utter it seem to believe the problem with incels is that they think they are entitled to sex and are mad they can't get any hence their anger against women and the right the latter abrogate for themselves to "choose" whom they want to slut around with, where as the issue is that not having sex (and also love, validation etc) is a cause of suffering, and whether anyone here thinks they are entitled to that or not, and whether one might end up hating women for their continuous denial of this fundamental necessity for the emotional and psychological well being of a male individual is completely besides the point.

Indeed, the complaint is not that one is being denied some kind of luxury which incels arrogantly expect they ought to have access to (like a well to do person complaining they can't get a pool for their big house, as if incels are otherwise fine whether they have sex and love or not). The complaint is that a basic and fundamental need remains unfulfilled through no other fault than accident of birth, which causes intense pain and suffering which society simply won't acknowledge, hypocritically, for matters of love routinely drive normal people to extreme acts, including murder or suicide, demonstrating this is NOT the light and trivial matter critics of inceldom say it is.

Furthermore, because of the denial that attraction is based almost entirely on things a person simply does not have any control over (whether it's physical traits or even mental traits), and the delusional belief that the attraction and affection of a woman is won through effort as well as upright character and conduct (the implication being that women are fundamentally and inherently, as in, in principle, not merely in fact, moral creatures whose affections and love are given to those who "deserve" it by virtue of their righteous qualities), exacerbate the suffering of being denied access to this fundamental necessity by adding ridicule and moral reproach on top of it. Incels are derided for being "failures" and "losers", again, under the rubric attraction is "won" through effort, rather than right of birth. But more odiously still, incels are finally accused of possessing repugnant personal traits and being morally deficient in general. After all, there must be a "reason" women can't love them, again, if we follow the idea that the affection of women is extended to those who deserve it for being "good", and no other reason.

Thus, on top of ridicule incels must also suffer from outright enmity, a predicament which MIGHT just drive a person to develop hateful and aberrant personalities and attitudes, which of course are quickly taken to be "proof" that the reproach against incels is correct, even though this hatred and aberration is the RESULT of inceldom and not the cause of it. This is particularly true once we begin to examine the realities of so called "love" and "attraction". How the affection of women is bestowed purely on those who meet a certain standard of physical attractiveness, irregardless of any personal or moral quality those men may posses. How women routinely chose men of dubious if not outright odious moral character over men of far greater virtue. How women routinely demonstrate immoral and odious behaviors themselves. And finally, how women are never reproached for any fault they might have, how they can never be told what to do or how to behave, even though in many cases nothing seems to be beyond the pale for certain women and the amount of entitlements women abrogate for themselves is nigh without limits. If a woman wants to cheat with other men, she ought to be free to do so and we can call this an "open" relationship. If a woman is overweight, she is entitled to the attention and affection of men and is never asked to improve herself or "work" to make herself appealing to males (in fact, it is up to society to "alter" their conception of beauty, which is as Orwellian as it gets). If a woman wants to lead a purely promiscuous and licentious existence, she is free to do so, and nobody has a right to question her virtue or her character for it. Women are beyond all rules and standards of morality, and increasingly, beyond the law itself. BUT, despite all this, the only reason incels cannot obtain the love of a woman is that they are simply "bad" people (even as women routinely fall in "love" with criminals and murderers).

To the degree hatred of women might be unjustified, given that nobody can help whom they are attracted with (which goes both ways, for there are women so hideous no incel would ever want to lie with, thus making their misogyny hypocritical if attraction was the only thing in question) the amount of SCORN that is heaped upon incels based purely on lies normal people tell themselves in order to avoid acknowledging their own baseness, their own superficiality, and their own moral faults, MIGHT just drive one to anger and hatred. If people were frank and open about the facts of "love" and sexual attraction, much of the animosity incels harbor for society might be defused. Some will still react negatively and possibly will still be driven to unjustified hatred, for the suffering of being denied this basic necessity remains there, but at the very least one does not have to bear the brunt of this continuous and relentless societal condemnation based on fraudulent and false assumptions regarding the nature of romantic and sexual attraction that exist purely to hypocritically make normal people feel better about themselves, almost as if reproaching incels for made up moral flaws was intended to reinforce those very lies that grant normal people the privilege to never having to look at themselves in the mirror.

Ultimately, if incels were at the very least allowed to bear their suffering in peace, they could eventually come to terms with it and find solace in whatever else life has to offer. Instead, they must be made into a target of scorn and ridicule in order that others may enjoy a guilty free conscience regarding THEIR entitlements and THEIR pettiness, superficiality and greed.
 
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If people were frank and open about the facts of "love" and sexual attraction, much of the animosity incels harbor for society might be defused. Some will still react negatively and possibly will still be driven to unjustified hatred, for the suffering of being denied this basic necessity remains there, but at the very least one does not have to bear the brunt of this continuous and relentless societal condemnation based on fraudulent and false assumptions regarding the nature of romantic and sexual attraction that exist purely to hypocritically make normal people feel better about themselves, almost as if reproaching incels for made up moral flaws was intended to reinforce those very lies that grant normal people the privilege to never having to look at themselves in the mirror.
Normies can't admit society or human nature are at fault, they need their belief in a just world to be capable of justifying themselves. I think you're correct though, the dishonestly and blatant lying are what bother me the most.
 
Mega-turbo-ultra-2.0-giga-IQ post.
 
Just eliminate your ability to feel mental pain bro
 
Human nature is a disease
 
Wow, the IQ in this post counteracted the loss of IQ that I got from reading tinder profiles.

Thanks for the good read!
 
feminazis&sjw:
people are born gay! it's not a mental disorder! we have to accept them. same with trannys!
also femnazis&sjw:
what? you're born ugly? why should I care? YOURE A (WHITE) HETERO MALE! reeeeeeeeeeeeeeee don't come close!
 
The issue with this argument is that those who utter it seem to believe the problem with incels is that they think they are entitled to sex and are mad they can't get any hence their anger against women and the right the latter abrogate for themselves to "choose" whom they want to slut around with, where as the issue is that not having sex (and also love, validation etc) is a cause of suffering, and whether anyone here thinks they are entitled to that or not, and whether one might end up hating women for their continuous denial of this fundamental necessity for the emotional and psychological well being of a male individual is completely besides the point.

Indeed, the complaint is not that one is being denied some kind of luxury which incels arrogantly expect they ought to have access to (like a well to do person complaining they can't get a pool for their big house, as if incels are otherwise fine whether they have sex and love or not). The complaint is that a basic and fundamental need remains unfulfilled through no other fault than accident of birth, which causes intense pain and suffering which society simply won't acknowledge, hypocritically, for matters of love routinely drive normal people to extreme acts, including murder or suicide, demonstrating this is NOT the light and trivial matter critics of inceldom say it is.

Furthermore, because of the denial that attraction is based almost entirely on things a person simply does not have any control over (whether it's physical traits or even mental traits), and the delusional belief that the attraction and affection of a woman is won through effort as well as upright character and conduct (the implication being that women are fundamentally and inherently, as in, in principle, not merely in fact, moral creatures whose affections and love are given to those who "deserve" it by virtue of their righteous qualities), exacerbate the suffering of being denied access to this fundamental necessity by adding ridicule and moral reproach on top of it. Incels are derided for being "failures" and "losers", again, under the rubric attraction is "won" through effort, rather than right of birth. But more odiously still, incels are finally accused of possessing repugnant personal traits and being morally deficient in general. After all, there must be a "reason" women can't love them, again, if we follow the idea that the affection of women is extended to those who deserve it for being "good", and no other reason.

Thus, on top of ridicule incels must also suffer from outright enmity, a predicament which MIGHT just drive a person to develop hateful and aberrant personalities and attitudes, which of course are quickly taken to be "proof" that the reproach against incels is correct, even though this hatred and aberration is the RESULT of inceldom and not the cause of it. This is particularly true once we begin to examine the realities of so called "love" and "attraction". How the affection of women is bestowed purely on those who meet a certain standard of physical attractiveness, irregardless of any personal or moral quality those men may posses. How women routinely chose men of dubious if not outright odious moral character over men of far greater virtue. How women routinely demonstrate immoral and odious behaviors themselves. And finally, how women are never reproached for any fault they might have, how they can never be told what to do or how to behave, even though in many cases nothing seems to be beyond the pale for certain women and the amount of entitlements women abrogate for themselves is nigh without limits. If a woman wants to cheat with other men, she ought to be free to do so and we can call this an "open" relationship. If a woman is overweight, she is entitled to the attention and affection of men and is never asked to improve herself or "work" to make herself appealing to males (in fact, it is up to society to "alter" their conception of beauty, which is as Orwellian as it gets). If a woman wants to lead a purely promiscuous and licentious existence, she is free to do so, and nobody has a right to question her virtue or her character for it. Women are beyond all rules and standards of morality, and increasingly, beyond the law itself. BUT, despite all this, the only reason incels cannot obtain the love of a woman is that they are simply "bad" people (even as women routinely fall in "love" with criminals and murderers).

To the degree hatred of women might be unjustified, given that nobody can help whom they are attracted with (which goes both ways, for there are women so hideous no incel would ever want to lie with, thus making their misogyny hypocritical if attraction was the only thing in question) the amount of SCORN that is heaped upon incels based purely on lies normal people tell themselves in order to avoid acknowledging their own baseness, their own superficiality, and their own moral faults, MIGHT just drive one to anger and hatred. If people were frank and open about the facts of "love" and sexual attraction, much of the animosity incels harbor for society might be defused. Some will still react negatively and possibly will still be driven to unjustified hatred, for the suffering of being denied this basic necessity remains there, but at the very least one does not have to bear the brunt of this continuous and relentless societal condemnation based on fraudulent and false assumptions regarding the nature of romantic and sexual attraction that exist purely to hypocritically make normal people feel better about themselves, almost as if reproaching incels for made up moral flaws was intended to reinforce those very lies that grant normal people the privilege to never having to look at themselves in the mirror.

Ultimately, if incels were at the very least allowed to bear their suffering in peace, they could eventually come to terms with it and find solace in whatever else life has to offer. Instead, they must be made into a target of scorn and ridicule in order that others may enjoy a guilty free conscience regarding THEIR entitlements and THEIR pettiness, superficiality and greed.

Very High IQ.

I think this the definitive post that sums up the incel argument. Congratulations. Touched on all the points and kept it succinct.
 
Someone unpin my thread and pin this
 
I felt the need to put some effort into this since the "entitlement" argument is among the most pernicious one.
 
OP, your IQ level shot up to outer space.

Sticky pls.
 
Astronomically High IQ. This should be pinned.
 
Great post, deserve's to be pinned.
 
The complaint is that a basic and fundamental need remains unfulfilled through no other fault than accident of birth, which causes intense pain and suffering which society simply won't acknowledge, hypocritically, for matters of love routinely drive normal people to extreme acts, including murder or suicide, demonstrating this is NOT the light and trivial matter critics of inceldom say it is.

But supposing society did acknowledge this - then what? What does it solve?

I suspect it would make zilch difference to the rage and pain felt by incels - they may take some initial solace before spriralling back into the abyss of hopeless darkness.

Acts of violence from people who suffer the frustration of solo lives is probably quite uncommon. The vast majority bear their misery in silence.

What many on here want is not acknowledgement - but a solution. A new society in which every male need is catered for and the supply of women is distributed evenly.

But alas - that will never happen.
 
High quality post from OP.
The reading of it itself managed to appease my incel's soul.
It's not only the pain and frustration of missing love with a woman that drives us crazy, it'simply the way society treats it, ie blaming us for everything while lying to us constantly with the bluepill ideology.
All this while accepting everything from women and constantly enforcing them is what can rightfully drive some of us to the edge of madness : double standards that is.
 
Good job with this eloquent summary, OP. If normies were exposed to this version of the story more often it might actually give them pause. There are many ways one can intelligently expose the normie hypocrisy on this matter. For instance, argue for defunding all planned parenthood initiatives, pointing out that those who can't afford their own birth control can simply abstain from having sex, and watch all hell break loose among those who have previously assured you that "no one is entitled to sex".
 
The complaint is that a basic and fundamental need remains unfulfilled through no other fault than accident of birth, which causes intense pain and suffering which society simply won't acknowledge, hypocritically, for matters of love routinely drive normal people to extreme acts, including murder or suicide, demonstrating this is NOT the light and trivial matter critics of inceldom say it is.

But supposing society did acknowledge this - then what? What does it solve?

I suspect it would make zilch difference to the rage and pain felt by incels - they may take some initial solace before spriralling back into the abyss of hopeless darkness.

Acts of violence from people who suffer the frustration of solo lives is probably quite uncommon. The vast majority bear their misery in silence.

What many on here want is not acknowledgement - but a solution. A new society in which every male need is catered for and the supply of women is distributed evenly.

But alas - that will never happen.

You are correct, but i was trying to refute the "entitlement" argument. The solution to inceldom is another question.

One of the main points i tried to make is that the bluebill is in essence hypocrisy. The lies that normal people tell themselves regarding the nature of attraction are meant to conceal the very "superficiality" they accuse incels of possessing. Of course, because normal people meet the basic criteria upon which attraction is formed, they can afford the luxury of lying to themselves about the realities of sexuality and avoid staring at the hard cold facts, about said reality and also about themselves. The hubris here comes when they reproach incels for their incessant preoccupation for the very things the bluebill is meant to hide or embellish, completely ignoring the fact incels have no choice on the matter. Reality has been forcefully imposed upon them, against their will.

But worst yet to me is their presumption in thinking they can pass moral judgement on incels for things they themselves are culpable of, but which they can afford to ignore since fortune is on their side. This is particularly pernicious to me and at the heart of why the "entitlement" argument is so incredibly frustrating. To express it as succinctly as i can, incels are accused of being the perpetrators while they are the victims. That's as simple as i can make it. It is like a group of rich people reproaching the homeless for failing to uphold an etiquette that was conceived purely for the purpose of allowing the wealthy to appear noble and unconcerned with their richness in their own eyes. But the homeless cannot appear to be unconcerned with their lack of wealth, for this lack of wealth is causing them terrible suffering and hardship. To claim the homeless are culpable of greed for wishing to possess a modicum of economic well being, coming from the rich, is the height of arrogance and egotism.

It is not greed to wish not to suffer constantly due to a privation or a lack of well being, and the fact incels are incapable of ceasing to suffer for their lack of love and companionship does not automatically translate in an expectation from the part of society as a whole to fulfill this want for free. Incels do not believe they "deserve" love and affection. They simply cannot do without it. They simply suffer endlessly by being deprived contact with the opposite sex. Whether they think they are entitled to sex, love or validation or not is completely irrelevant. Some may, some may not. Some may dream of a society in which incels are gifted sexual intercourse and compantionship as a type of social welfare. Such a society will probably never exist and those type of thoughts are probably the result of trying to look for a way out of this situation, even to the point of entertaining the impractical if not the outright fantastical. None of this matters. It is not a question of feeling "entitled" to anything. It is a question of having a need that is being unfulfilled. The "incel question" should revolve around finding a way to satisfy this need or finding a mean to live without having this necessity being fulfilled, if possible. That's it. Entitlement is completely and utterly besides the point. Incels cannot help not desire that which is so fundamental to their well being, to everyone's well being. You might as well claim the homeless are not "entitled" to wish they weren't starving to death while sleeping in some dirty city alley, or that the terminally ill are not "entitled" to wish they had been given more time on this earth. People who are suffering cannot help but wish for their suffering to end. Whether this puts any "unjust" expectation on others or society is irrelevant. The desire for the suffering to end is there and will be there whether one wants it or not.

I could probably go on forever here but i think the point has been made.
 
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Ultimately, if incels were at the very least allowed to bear their suffering in peace, they could eventually come to terms with it and find solace in whatever else life has to offer. Instead, they must be made into a target of scorn and ridicule in order that others may enjoy a guilty free conscience regarding THEIR entitlements and THEIR pettiness, superficiality and greed.

I think this entire post could be summed up with two words: Human Nature.

People are fairly bad at picking good quality partners, because we focus more on looks as opposed to genuinely good qualities such as character. That's because, as a species, we are hardwired to pass one genes, and competition for such a privilege would have been fierce in our prehistoric past.

Men who are undesirable to the opposite sex will naturally be looked down upon, because it suggest that he is weak, unattractive, and a carrier of poor genetics, which is what the female brain might process in numerous species. Even animals care about looks, because that's the way we determine good s bad genetics.

In the end, I just wish that incels could find an alternative to be happy without women. It's obvious that we're aren't wanted by them, and will probably never attract one. For those who still want to try, I don't blame them. People will still call us entitled so long as we wear the incel label, but that's just the price we have to pay.
 
Absolutely amazing.
Please pin this
 

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