The perverse nature of Communism

[Anarcho Nihilist]

Russia is an example of how the communists (or rather, their fanatical military wing, the Chekists, and the party elite itself) have transformed from defenders of this system into the most caricatured bourgeois and fans of Ayn Rand and neoliberalism.
All those who were in the lead roles in the USSR bought factories and plants in privatization time, and now they are billionaires.
This is the reason for my hatred of communism. Essentially, communism first destroys capitalism, and then the descendants of these communists recreate capitalism, but it is much more savage and brutal than its earlier version.
I'm curious about how it was in Eastern Europe, whether there were any purges of communists, and whether they became an informal ruling class after the collapse of communism.
@sk.feelsdevil @SilentShadow @TheHungariancel @Cryotron

@The Notorious SLAV​

 

[Anarcho Nihilist]

How did the transition from a planned economy to a market economy go? Did top party communists and intelligence officers become successful capitalists in Eastern Europe?

 

[SilentShadow]

Here the transfer from communism to capitalism was peaceful but the former communist officals recieved immunity as part of the agreements, in the 90s there was massive poverty, unemployment and corruption so people voted for the former communists which were now social democrats but they continued the neoliberal and pro western policies which destroyed their party's reputation and led to a new poltical division between pro market liberals and economically center-left Conservatives.

 

[Anarcho Nihilist]

Here the transfer from communism to capitalism was peaceful but the former communist officals recieved immunity as part of the agreements, in the 90s there was massive poverty, unemployment and corruption so people voted for the former communists which were now social democrats but they continued the neoliberal and pro western policies which destroyed their party's reputation and led to a new poltical division between pro market liberals and economically center-left Conservatives.

Interesting, so there were no lustrations in Poland in 1990, and former communists were not prevented from continuing to engage in politics.

 

[WhitepillOverdose]

In my country the top communists just changed coats. Whenever You see 60+ years old fag running for whatever office You can be 80% sure He was former communist, snitches for secret service or he or his family had ties to some communistic higher ups.

Ironically, the ones who profited the most out of collapse of communism were communists. They had the ties and connections. During privatizations they were selling insiders to their friends who then made shitton of money because of it. Now, some of the richest people in this country had ties to communism. I've read some conspiracies about it. They were basically saying that communism in this country fell that easy was because communistic leaders knew that they can make much much more money for regime change than from maintaining the regime. To me, those aren't conspiracies.

It shows pretty well what kind of spineless people communists are. The regime was so ridden with corruption that simple ideological status quo couldn't maintain their greed.

 

[SilentShadow]

Interesting, so there were no lustrations in Poland in 1990, and former communists were not prevented from continuing to engage in politics.

One guy who was the spokesman for the regime during martial law even became a wealthy controversial celebrity who become infamous for running an anti clerical newspaper.

 

[Anarcho Nihilist]

In my country the top communists just changed coats. Whenever You see 60+ years old fag running for whatever office You can be 80% sure He was former communist, snitches for secret service or he or his family had ties to some communistic higher ups.

Ironically, the ones who profited the most out of collapse of communism were communists. They had the ties and connections. During privatizations they were selling insiders to their friends who then made shitton of money because of it. Now, some of the richest people in this country had ties to communism. I've read some conspiracies about it. They were basically saying that communism in this country fell that easy was because communistic leaders knew that they can make much much more money for regime change than from maintaining the regime. To me, those aren't conspiracies.

It shows pretty well what kind of spineless people communists are. The regime was so ridden with corruption that simple ideological status quo couldn't maintain their greed.

In fact, I read that the USSR died not because of the West, but because the KGB wanted the USSR to die, because Soviet officials could not openly own luxury items, or rather, they could not display them publicly. They could own cars, tape recorders, and Western-made vehicles, but they had to keep them hidden from others, and at some point, they decided to break free from the constraints of communist ideology, which required them to be ascetic in their words. Simply put, Gorbachev did not create perestroika; it was created in the offices of the KGB under Andropov.
If you think about it, the ruling class in Russia is the same, but they've just gotten richer. Yeltsin was the first secretary of the Communist Party in the Sverdlovsk region, and Putin was a KGB colonel. Their families live in luxury that few wealthy people in the West can even dream of.

 

[Anarcho Nihilist]

In my country the top communists just changed coats. Whenever You see 60+ years old fag running for whatever office You can be 80% sure He was former communist, snitches for secret service or he or his family had ties to some communistic higher ups.

Ironically, the ones who profited the most out of collapse of communism were communists. They had the ties and connections. During privatizations they were selling insiders to their friends who then made shitton of money because of it. Now, some of the richest people in this country had ties to communism. I've read some conspiracies about it. They were basically saying that communism in this country fell that easy was because communistic leaders knew that they can make much much more money for regime change than from maintaining the regime. To me, those aren't conspiracies.

It shows pretty well what kind of spineless people communists are. The regime was so ridden with corruption that simple ideological status quo couldn't maintain their greed.

So far, all of Russia outside of Moscow and St. Petersburg is similar to Moldova, while St. Petersburg and Moscow are similar to Prague/Warsaw in terms of living standards.

 

[SilentShadow]

In fact, I read that the USSR died not because of the West, but because the KGB wanted the USSR to die, because Soviet officials could not openly own luxury items, or rather, they could not display them publicly. They could own cars, tape recorders, and Western-made vehicles, but they had to keep them hidden from others, and at some point, they decided to break free from the constraints of communist ideology, which required them to be ascetic in their words. Simply put, Gorbachev did not create perestroika; it was created in the offices of the KGB under Andropov.
If you think about it, the ruling class in Russia is the same, but they've just gotten richer. Yeltsin was the first secretary of the Communist Party in the Sverdlovsk region, and Putin was a KGB colonel. Their families live in luxury that few wealthy people in the West can even dream of.

It seems the Soviet Elite stopped believing in Communism after Stalin and Especially after Krushchev and Brezniev.

 

[Anarcho Nihilist]

In my country the top communists just changed coats. Whenever You see 60+ years old fag running for whatever office You can be 80% sure He was former communist, snitches for secret service or he or his family had ties to some communistic higher ups.

Ironically, the ones who profited the most out of collapse of communism were communists. They had the ties and connections. During privatizations they were selling insiders to their friends who then made shitton of money because of it. Now, some of the richest people in this country had ties to communism. I've read some conspiracies about it. They were basically saying that communism in this country fell that easy was because communistic leaders knew that they can make much much more money for regime change than from maintaining the regime. To me, those aren't conspiracies.

It shows pretty well what kind of spineless people communists are. The regime was so ridden with corruption that simple ideological status quo couldn't maintain their greed.

It's like the cycle of asabiyas in Ibn Khaldun, where the first generation of communists were spectacular Marxist fanatics, followed by relative communists, and then opportunists who simply wanted to live like caricatured bourgeois to humiliate the poor by displaying luxury cars, gold jewelry, and designer clothing. This is a problem primarily in Eastern Europe, particularly in the former Soviet Union (Russia/Ukraine), where you can immediately see the rich because everything about them screams about their superiority over commoners, they like to show off their money, while the rich in the West behave demonstratively more modestly, because money loves silence.

 

[Anarcho Nihilist]

It seems the Soviet Elite stopped believing in Communism after Stalin and Especially after Krushchev and Brezniev.

This symbiosis of economic liberalism-neoliberalism and market economy with authoritarianism in politics in Russia is simply called liberal-Chekism.

 

[WhitepillOverdose]

It seems the Soviet Elite stopped believing in Communism after Stalin and Especially after Krushchev and Brezniev.

And couldn't that be just a form of generational shift? The old generations that remembered 1st and 2nd world war were slowly dying out and new generations born late 1930s early 1940s came forth. And since they werent too aware of the hungers of the late stage tsarism and then invasion of nazis they naturally had less of ideological attachments to communism?

 

[Anarcho Nihilist]

And couldn't that be just a form of generational shift? The old generations that remembered 1st and 2nd world war were slowly dying out and new generations born late 1930s early 1940s came forth. And since they werent too aware of the hungers of the late stage tsarism and then invasion of nazis they naturally had less of ideological attachments to communism?

It's just a gradual increase in desires and needs. At first, you have a three-room apartment in the center of Moscow, a Volga car, and a personal driver, but you feel that you deserve more, such as your own palace in the Moscow region with a golden toilet and servants, or a luxury apartment in Dubai. Yuri Andropov initiated the process of perestroika, as he wanted to integrate the Soviet elite into the global elite. He aimed to have the Rothschilds and Rockefellers recognize the former communist leaders as their equals. The collapse of the USSR and shock therapy were intended to make the Western elites recognize the post-Soviet elites as their equals, but this did not happen.

 

[Anarcho Nihilist]

And couldn't that be just a form of generational shift? The old generations that remembered 1st and 2nd world war were slowly dying out and new generations born late 1930s early 1940s came forth. And since they werent too aware of the hungers of the late stage tsarism and then invasion of nazis they naturally had less of ideological attachments to communism?

Under Khrushchev, the elites lived modestly and were kept in check, but when Brezhnev came to power, the degeneration began. People said that Brezhnev stole, but he also allowed others to steal. Everyone stole what they could, and officials stole state property in the form of budgets that were available to them, while workers stole products from factories, such as food, nails, paint, or any other factory products.

 

[Anarcho Nihilist]

And couldn't that be just a form of generational shift? The old generations that remembered 1st and 2nd world war were slowly dying out and new generations born late 1930s early 1940s came forth. And since they werent too aware of the hungers of the late stage tsarism and then invasion of nazis they naturally had less of ideological attachments to communism?

Isn't it ironic that former communists built a wild and ruthless capitalism that was much worse than capitalism in any part of western France, Denmark, or Germany?

 

[Trident]

Russia is an example of how the communists (or rather, their fanatical military wing, the Chekists, and the party elite itself) have transformed from defenders of this system into the most caricatured bourgeois and fans of Ayn Rand and neoliberalism.
All those who were in the lead roles in the USSR bought factories and plants in privatization time, and now they are billionaires.

It was a gradual process, the first so called old guard Bolsheviks were replaced, killed around Stalin death, counter-revolutionary clique with frontman like Khruschev took power and process of returning back to capitalism began then, Perestroika was a just finale of this process.

 

[Anarcho Nihilist]

It was a gradual process, the first so called old guard Bolsheviks were replaced, killed around Stalin death, counter-revolutionary clique with frontman like Khruschev took power and process of return to capitalism began then, Perestroika was a just finale of this process.

I've always been fascinated by the idea that a person who is created to fight something eventually becomes that very thing they were fighting. The collapse of the Soviet Union, the privatization and shock therapy, and the lavish lifestyle of former communist officials are all part of this phenomenon.

 

[WhitepillOverdose]

Under Khrushchev, the elites lived modestly and were kept in check, but when Brezhnev came to power, the degeneration began. People said that Brezhnev stole, but he also allowed others to steal. Everyone stole what they could, and officials stole state property in the form of budgets that were available to them, while workers stole products from factories, such as food, nails, paint, or any other factory products.

You know, that actually gives a sense. I cannot tell much about pre-1968 but my grandparent was telling me quite a lot after that. He worked as a welder and lathe operator. Once, they were moving entire factory somewhere else. He managed to take from there, with help of his friends, entire lathe home to his garage. In my area I live, there is quite sizable amount of houses that were built by stolen materials. He was telling me that since everything was so hard to come by it was the only way. Like entire steel beams, trucks of sand and gravel, tools and equipment. After invasion of 1868 there were entire bands of Ukrainian and Russian solders who were willing to sell You machineguns, fuel, radios and other equipment for a spare change.

It's just a gradual increase in desires and needs. At first, you have a three-room apartment in the center of Moscow, a Volga car, and a personal driver, but you feel that you deserve more, such as your own palace in the Moscow region with a golden toilet and servants, or a luxury apartment in Dubai. Yuri Andropov initiated the process of perestroika, as he wanted to integrate the Soviet elite into the global elite. He aimed to have the Rothschilds and Rockefellers recognize the former communist leaders as their equals. The collapse of the USSR and shock therapy were intended to make the Western elites recognize the post-Soviet elites as their equals, but this did not happen.

And what now. Are Russian elites trying to recreate the Russian empire to force western elites to recognize them? And if that wont work what then? Will they break that empire again in hopes of making even more money and recognition?

It's like the cycle of asabiyas in Ibn Khaldun, where the first generation of communists were spectacular Marxist fanatics, followed by relative communists, and then opportunists who simply wanted to live like caricatured bourgeois to humiliate the poor by displaying luxury cars, gold jewelry, and designer clothing. This is a problem primarily in Eastern Europe, particularly in the former Soviet Union (Russia/Ukraine), where you can immediately see the rich because everything about them screams about their superiority over commoners, they like to show off their money, while the rich in the West behave demonstratively more modestly, because money loves silence.

This is something I don't really get and I think this must just be specific to eastern slavic countries. Like even in here, almost every yokel from factory can get a luxury looking car and clothes. Even in here, those truly rich try to get out of sight of normal people.

 

[Trident]

person who is created to fight something eventually becomes that very thing they were fighting

it was 1-2 generations later or the ones that already were just larping as commie there and waiting for good moment to act. All this far left communist ideology like Marxism-Leninism has a flaw thinking that most people will be altruistic enthusiasts who will be building communism no matter what and there will be no people which will try to reverse the process back to capitalism. All of these Stalin harsh measures to take down counter-revolutionary forces failed.

 

[Trident]

Are Russian elites trying to recreate the Russian empire to force western elites to recognize them?

it looks more like deliberate sabotage to speedrun russia collapse than to recreate russian empire

 

[RandomGuy]

Joseph Stalin: Hebrew from Magog.
Bernie Sanders: Jew from Vermont.

 

[four1298]

I actually like communism. I read the Wikipedia page Christian Communism. There's also MAGA communism. I also said I like some aspects of Communist Romania and Russia.

 

[AutistSupremacist]

This is why Juche is the best variant of communism

 

[Anarcho Nihilist]

You know, that actually gives a sense. I cannot tell much about pre-1968 but my grandparent was telling me quite a lot after that. He worked as a welder and lathe operator. Once, they were moving entire factory somewhere else. He managed to take from there, with help of his friends, entire lathe home to his garage. In my area I live, there is quite sizable amount of houses that were built by stolen materials. He was telling me that since everything was so hard to come by it was the only way. Like entire steel beams, trucks of sand and gravel, tools and equipment. After invasion of 1868 there were entire bands of Ukrainian and Russian solders who were willing to sell You machineguns, fuel, radios and other equipment for a spare change.


And what now. Are Russian elites trying to recreate the Russian empire to force western elites to recognize them? And if that wont work what then? Will they break that empire again in hopes of making even more money and recognition?

This is something I don't really get and I think this must just be specific to eastern slavic countries. Like even in here, almost every yokel from factory can get a luxury looking car and clothes. Even in here, those truly rich try to get out of sight of normal people.

All of Russia's hostility towards the West is a farce. The descendants of the Chekists and party communists who became the elite after October 1917 want European aristocratic and capitalist families, who have been around for centuries, to consider them equals.

 

[Anarcho Nihilist]

You know, that actually gives a sense. I cannot tell much about pre-1968 but my grandparent was telling me quite a lot after that. He worked as a welder and lathe operator. Once, they were moving entire factory somewhere else. He managed to take from there, with help of his friends, entire lathe home to his garage. In my area I live, there is quite sizable amount of houses that were built by stolen materials. He was telling me that since everything was so hard to come by it was the only way. Like entire steel beams, trucks of sand and gravel, tools and equipment. After invasion of 1868 there were entire bands of Ukrainian and Russian solders who were willing to sell You machineguns, fuel, radios and other equipment for a spare change.


And what now. Are Russian elites trying to recreate the Russian empire to force western elites to recognize them? And if that wont work what then? Will they break that empire again in hopes of making even more money and recognition?

This is something I don't really get and I think this must just be specific to eastern slavic countries. Like even in here, almost every yokel from factory can get a luxury looking car and clothes. Even in here, those truly rich try to get out of sight of normal people.

Russian elites send their children to study at leading universities in the United States and the United Kingdom, but at the same time, they talk to commoners about some kind of civilizational conflict between the West and Russia. Although Russia is a complete insignificance that only demands recognition from the West (the United States and Western Europe) and claims that they are just like them. For example, American journalist Tucker Carlson shops for groceries in a Moscow store. American journalist Vittok ate a cheburek (a type of meat pie).

 

[Saigon Depression]

How did the transition from a planned economy to a market economy go? Did top party communists and intelligence officers become successful capitalists in Eastern Europe?

This happened in all the countries that shifted to the American sphere of influence after the Soviet Union ended.
Probably even in Russia that of course didn't make this shift completely.