Serious The death penalty is so absurd

[Hoppipolla]

The solution to murder is more murder, it seems!

I'm watching videos from the Nikolas Cruz trial and it's awful what these families went through and no I don't think it makes them as bad as Cruz if they want to kill him, but... I dunno. I don't think it puts them as far above him as they think it does.

Cruz wants to kill and so do they.

It's just revenge isn't it really. It's not really justice.

 

[GhostedPhantom]

The only reason T-cells kill cancerous cells is to protect the body, not to feel morally superior. If a person is damaged beyond repair, then killing them makes sense for everyone else. The problem is that soyciety damages innocent people and then also gives up on them quickly instead of trying to fix the problems. It deserves every mass shooting that happens (in video game).

 

[Hoppipolla]

The only reason T-cells kill cancerous cells is to protect the body, not to feel morally superior. If a person is damaged beyond repair, then killing them makes sense for everyone else. The problem is that soyciety damages innocent people and then also gives up on them quickly instead of trying to fix the problems. It deserves every mass shooting that happens (in video game).

Cells are not the same as human beings though.

I just don't think it's our place to take life. And it is really ironic to condemn murder and then basically commit a murder yourself.

We shouldn't give punishments that we don't understand. We don't know what's after death so how can we give that as a punishment?

 

[_Lonely_]

No it's not some people deserve Death

 

[Glerforpus]

An eye for an eye. Plus for some people prison seems like an easy way out after slaughtering children

 

[Gyros_Pretcel]

It's also not punishment pilled. I am against the punitive justice system, but the ultimate sentence would be cut pp, then incarcerate 20 years, then slow torture kill.

 

[RetardedChinlet]

The solution to murder is more murder, it seems!

 

[Hoppipolla]

I was thinking about this again walking along earlier. I was walking to the shop listening to music and about to buy an iced coffee and a Mountain Dew Flamin' Hot. lol

Anyway, the thought that came to mind is... I'm better than killing people. Like... yeah Nikolas Cruz did it but I'm better than that. I *don't* kill people. Crazy that I have to say that, lol

I don't believe in the death penalty because I consider myself to be above killing people. I am merciful and so I would let him live. You don't solve hate with more hate, basically.

The only possible exceptions IMO are very extreme situations such as immediate self-defense or defending a child or something like that.

 

[The Enforcer]

Death penalty is fine. An eye for an eye is fine. Like, there's no doubt he did what he did. Objectively it's pretty retarded to give him a life sentence in a cell. The cost of keeping him there through his entire life isn't justifiable logically. Those hundreds of thousands if not millions spent on keeping him alive just means he wins against society again. Money that could be better spent elsewhere by enriching the lives of others somehow. Like say perhaps, paying for surgery for incels so we can become human and enjoy life.

 

[subhuman]

Justice is preventative.

 

[Hoppipolla]

Death penalty is fine. An eye for an eye is fine. Like, there's no doubt he did what he did. Objectively it's pretty retarded to give him a life sentence in a cell. The cost of keeping him there through his entire life isn't justifiable logically. Those hundreds of thousands if not millions spent on keeping him alive just means he wins against society again. Money that could be better spent elsewhere by enriching the lives of others somehow. Like say perhaps, paying for surgery for incels so we can become human and enjoy life.

I don't know how the cost of executing someone compares to the cost of life imprisonment. But I dunno. Some things are more important than money anyway.

 

[The Enforcer]

I don't know how the cost of executing someone compares to the cost of life imprisonment. But I dunno. Some things are more important than money anyway.

Can't imagine the cost of execution would be much at all in comparison. But keeping people there certainly does cost.

The moral aspect of "murder is bad, don't be like them" is silly to me. Killing someone doesn't tarnish or stain you the way people seem to think. Religious ideas of sin are just that. Ideas. But the universe ultimately doesn't care if you kill someone. A dead human is the same as a dead termite to the universe. there could be the moral argument that keeping people caged like that for their enitre lives is cruel and torturous so it's still causing suffering. It's still a barbaric stance to want to see them suffer and die so either argument is morally flawed. I don't care for such ideas as they have no value.

No other animal in existence would tolerate a rogue member of it's own species and would hastily kill it. This guy has no possibility of redemption or rehabilitation. He will never be let out. It makes no sense to keep such people alive unless for studying them or using them for experimental purposes. It would be better for everyone to just kill him and harvest his organs for sick children to have a chance at life.

 

[Hoppipolla]

Can't imagine the cost of execution would be much at all in comparison. But keeping people there certainly does cost.

The moral aspect of "murder is bad, don't be like them" is silly to me. Killing someone doesn't tarnish or stain you the way people seem to think. Religious ideas of sin are just that. Ideas. But the universe ultimately doesn't care if you kill someone. A dead human is the same as a dead termite to the universe. there could be the moral argument that keeping people caged like that for their enitre lives is cruel and torturous so it's still causing suffering. It's still a barbaric stance to want to see them suffer and die so either argument is morally flawed. I don't care for such ideas as they have no value.

No other animal in existence would tolerate a rogue member of it's own species and would hastily kill it. This guy has no possibility of redemption or rehabilitation. He will never be let out. It makes no sense to keep such people alive unless for studying them or using them for experimental purposes. It would be better for everyone to just kill him and harvest his organs for sick children to have a chance at life.

I mean, I believe in God and I think only God should have the power to take life. We don't even know what's after death so we don't even understand our own punishment. Humbling, isn't it?

True, we need to abolish the death penalty.

Any incel who disagrees with this is beyond cucked Imagine supporting the feds power to kill you

Agreed, lol

 

[The Enforcer]

I mean, I believe in God and I think only God should have the power to take life. We don't even know what's after death so we don't even understand our own punishment. Humbling, isn't it?



Agreed, lol

I don't believe in God. And if he is real then he's not worthy of respect anyway due to his sadistic nature. If God wanted to control death himself then he wouldn't give animals the power to take life. Also why are humans more important? Our bodies destroy other animal organisms all the time. Why doesn't that argument extend to other forms of life? Humans are not special, we just like to think be are due to our inherent bias because we are ourselves human.

As for after death. The answer is simple. Same as before birth. Just a void of nothing for the rest of eternity. You either get turned into dust or into maggot food in the soil. People invented the afterlife as a way to cope with an uncomfortable thought, that being that they will someday lose their consciousness to the dark void of nothingness. A concept that frightens people. I don't need to worry about punishment after death. Not like any punishment I'd get could be worse than this existence anyway. If hell exists, I'm already there.

 

[Hoppipolla]

I don't believe in God. And if he is real then he's not worthy of respect anyway due to his sadistic nature. If God wanted to control death himself then he wouldn't give animals the power to take life. Also why are humans more important? Our bodies destroy other animal organisms all the time. Why doesn't that argument extend to other forms of life? Humans are not special, we just like to think be are due to our inherent bias because we are ourselves human.

As for after death. The answer is simple. Same as before birth. Just a void of nothing for the rest of eternity. You either get turned into dust or into maggot food in the soil. People invented the afterlife as a way to cope with an uncomfortable thought, that being that they will someday lose their consciousness to the dark void of nothingness. A concept that frightens people. I don't need to worry about punishment after death. Not like any punishment I'd get could be worse than this existence anyway. If hell exists, I'm already there.

Well I'm glad that at least one person is so sure about all this!

 

[The Enforcer]

Well I'm glad that at least one person is so sure about all this!

Quite. Its normal for humans to want to avoid these realities. It's why most tribes of humans that have ever existed have created their own religions all with similar ideas. To cope with the idea of death.

 

[Hoppipolla]

Quite. Its normal for humans to want to avoid these realities. It's why most tribes of humans that have ever existed have created their own religions all with similar ideas. To cope with the idea of death.

I just think... it's silly to be so sure about these things. I am not SURE God exists. And I am not sure that mankind is special, so to speak. But I believe these things to be the case.

I do feel like you're kind of making assertions here without too much evidence to back them up. Which is fine if you see them as your opinion, but to say something is definitely 100% true but not really provide any evidence is just not a good way to approach things, surely.

 

[The Enforcer]

I just think... it's silly to be so sure about these things. I am not SURE God exists. And I am not sure that mankind is special, so to speak. But I believe these things to be the case.

I do feel like you're kind of making assertions here without too much evidence to back them up. Which is fine if you see them as your opinion, but to say something is definitely 100% true but not really provide any evidence is just not a good way to approach things, surely.

There's no evidence of afterlife though apart from opinion and outdated fictitious scriptures. God has barely any presence in the world apart from people trying to wish him into existence. He rarely ever answers prayers because he can't. Why would we be magiced off to a new realm when we die? Why does it never really seem to apply to other creatures. What purpose does it serve? Why did the universe wait 5 billion years and several thousands of years of humans being around to just plop you inside a random body?

People would say that it's an absurd idea that computers that die go to heaven but they're not all that different too us at a base level. They're an assortment of atoms that respond to electrical stimulus and one day they wear out and die.

 

[Hoppipolla]

There's no evidence of afterlife though apart from opinion and outdated fictitious scriptures. God has barely any presence in the world apart from people trying to wish him into existence. He rarely ever answers prayers because he can't. Why would we be magiced off to a new realm when we die? Why does it never really seem to apply to other creatures. What purpose does it serve? Why did the universe wait 5 billion years and several thousands of years of humans being around to just plop you inside a random body?

People would say that it's an absurd idea that computers that die go to heaven but they're not all that different too us at a base level. They're an assortment of atoms that respond to electrical stimulus and one day they wear out and die.

Hm, this has now become a debate about religion, lol

God existing doesn't have to be certain or even likely for my argument to be valid though.

I'm just saying that we can't possibly know what comes after death and so therefore we don't understand our own punishment. I don't understand how you can possibly say you're certain about what is after death.

Even if it was a certainty that there is no God and that there is nothing after death, I'm still not sure why I get to decide whether others live or die. By what right? It's their life not mine.

 

[LesscoBlob]

The solution to murder is more murder, it seems!

The definition of murder is unlawful killing. And to be honest, who am I to decide if one should have their life taken away? I'm not God.

I'm watching videos from the Nikolas Cruz trial and it's awful what these families went through and no I don't think it makes them as bad as Cruz if they want to kill him, but... I dunno. I don't think it puts them as far above him as they think it does.

True. That's not thinking critically, but thinking emotionally. I don't however see anything necessarily wrong with having this reaction. If one were to murder a relative of yours, you'd probably be saying the same.

Cruz wants to kill and so do they.

False analogy. Wanting to kill someone because they killed relatives of your family is not the same as wanting to kill people because you're a psycho.

It's just revenge isn't it really. It's not really justice.

The world isn't just and wanting revenge is natural.

 

[LesscoBlob]

Cells are not the same as human beings though.

Human beings are a collection of cells.

 

[LesscoBlob]

We don't know what's after death so how can we give that as a punishment?

Because, by that logic, we don't know if there is anything after life. So we might as well do whatever we want. There either is cosmic justice or there isn't. If there isn't, right or wrong do not exist beyond anyone's imaginations.

 

[LesscoBlob]

It's also not punishment pilled. I am against the punitive justice system, but the ultimate sentence would be cut pp, then incarcerate 20 years, then slow torture kill.

That's actually a proper punishment. Crime rates would fall to nearly non-existent levels if this were implemented.

 

[LesscoBlob]

I don't believe in the death penalty because I consider myself to be above killing people. I am merciful and so I would let him live. You don't solve hate with more hate, basically.

You actually can solve hate with hate provided that the revenge-fueled hate is enough to destroy the hate of the perpetrator.

 

[LesscoBlob]

I don't know how the cost of executing someone compares to the cost of life imprisonment. But I dunno. Some things are more important than money anyway.

A gunshot to the head is less expensive than meals for 30+ years. Although most forms of execution are more complex than that for some weird reason.

 

[LesscoBlob]

No other animal in existence would tolerate a rogue member of it's own species and would hastily kill it.

Humans <> Gazelles. If you don't agree with this, you have no right to be upset about being an incel as inceldom is natural and even worse in the animal kingdom.

 

[LesscoBlob]

Well I'm glad that at least one person is so sure about all this!

There's no such thing as in between. You either believe in God, or you don't. If you aren't 100% sure that God exists, then you don't believe in God's existence.

 

[LesscoBlob]

People would say that it's an absurd idea that computers that die go to heaven but they're not all that different too us at a base level. They're an assortment of atoms that respond to electrical stimulus and one day they wear out and die.

It's actually a common belief among many religious people that animals, even to microspoic levels go to heaven when they die.
Computers are different from humans. I know this, because I've worked with computers. They are not alive, and they have no will.
"Collection of atoms" isn't an argument for similarity.

 

[LesscoBlob]

God existing doesn't have to be certain or even likely for my argument to be valid though.

Actually, it has to be. If God isn't real, there is absolutely no reason to have the death penalty or not to. Slowly torturing a criminal to an agonising death is not wrong or right if there is nothing supernatural.
There is absolutely no way to justify or condemn the death penalty from a true secular perpective.

 

[LesscoBlob]

Even if it was a certainty that there is no God and that there is nothing after death, I'm still not sure why I get to decide whether others live or die. By what right? It's their life not mine.

There is no right or wrong in that case beyong what you think. It's your word against another's.

 

[incelerated]

The only and only justice for someone who was killed is to kill their murderer.

 

[incelerated]

My brain physically hurts just reading your post OP.
What kind of mental gymnastic do you use to think that doing the same harm someone has done to others to them is not justice?

 

[incelerated]

I don't believe in the death penalty because I consider myself to be above killing people. I am merciful and so I would let him live. You don't solve hate with more hate, basically.

You are in no position at all to have any opinion whatsoever about a murderer.
It is only upon the victim's family to decide what happens to the murderer.

 

[Hoppipolla]

My brain physically hurts just reading your post OP.
What kind of mental gymnastic do you use to think that doing the same harm someone has done to others to them is not justice?

I guess there are lots of potential reasons why you might sentence someone to a punishment.

It could be a deterrent, designed to impact them negatively (like punishing a child, I guess), to stop them from harming others... etc.

Revenge... wow erm. I mean, I never considered that to be a valid reason for a punishment within the law. I guess when people say it will "give the families closure" and all this... it does kind of admit that it's intended as revenge.

I suppose there's no inherent reason why revenge can't form part of a justice system. It just depends whether you think that's moral, civilised, etc.

 

[The Enforcer]

Hm, this has now become a debate about religion, lol

God existing doesn't have to be certain or even likely for my argument to be valid though.

I'm just saying that we can't possibly know what comes after death and so therefore we don't understand our own punishment. I don't understand how you can possibly say you're certain about what is after death.

Even if it was a certainty that there is no God and that there is nothing after death, I'm still not sure why I get to decide whether others live or die. By what right? It's their life not mine.

Dead people are dead. That's just it. Everything they're composed of gets decomposed somehow and is redistributed back into the world.

 

[The Enforcer]

Humans <> Gazelles. If you don't agree with this, you have no right to be upset about being an incel as inceldom is natural and even worse in the animal kingdom.

Don't imagine the lives of many animal incels are good. They're noticeably less functional. Outcast runt animals always seem much more depressed

 

[The Enforcer]

It's actually a common belief among many religious people that animals, even to microspoic levels go to heaven when they die.
Computers are different from humans. I know this, because I've worked with computers. They are not alive, and they have no will.
"Collection of atoms" isn't an argument for similarity.

A lot of people define life differently however. We also know plants are alive but plant heaven is deemed as trivial an idea as computer heaven. Lots of forms of life on this planet, smaller organisms and such have no will either. They're not complex enough to have will. They merely respond to stimuli and follow inbuilt biological commands, much like a computer program. I've heard many people refer to less developed forms of life as "organic robots" because that's essentially what many of them equate too.

The idea that all life goes to heaven though would be hilarious. Imagine an AIDS heaven.

 

[LesscoBlob]

Don't imagine the lives of many animal incels are good. They're noticeably less functional. Outcast runt animals always seem much more depressed

That's true.

 

[LesscoBlob]

A lot of people define life differently however. We also know plants are alive but plant heaven is deemed as trivial an idea as computer heaven. Lots of forms of life on this planet, smaller organisms and such have no will either. They're not complex enough to have will. They merely respond to stimuli and follow inbuilt biological commands, much like a computer program. I've heard many people refer to less developed forms of life as "organic robots" because that's essentially what many of them equate too.

The idea that all life goes to heaven though would be hilarious. Imagine an AIDS heaven.

"Organic robots" is a weird way to categorise them, that's for sure. Viruses aren't alive though. The only way they can be "alive" is for them to exploit a life and multiply.

 

[Emba]

The only reason T-cells kill cancerous cells is to protect the body, not to feel morally superior. If a person is damaged beyond repair, then killing them makes sense for everyone else. The problem is that soyciety damages innocent people and then also gives up on them quickly instead of trying to fix the problems. It deserves every mass shooting that happens (in video game).

@tcel @t-cel thoughts?

 

[The Enforcer]

That's true.

it's over for animalcels

 

[The Enforcer]

"Organic robots" is a weird way to categorise them, that's for sure. Viruses aren't alive though. The only way they can be "alive" is for them to exploit a life and multiply.

I guess the jurys out on the virus thing. But instead of using a virus as an example, bacteria would fit just as well. Over for bacteria heaven. Organic robots is a term i've always quite liked because it describes such organisms pretty well. Similarly, if they'd kept the lobotomy around and perfected it more, and gave me one like i've wanted for fucking years now jfl, i'd essentially become an organic robot too.

My emotions would be removed, I would have no free thought, I wouldn't be able to imagine. I would no longer feel any mental nor physical pain. I wouldn't have wants, desires, ideas. All of the stuff that makes life painful and horrible would be gone. I would simply have basic instincts to survive I guess, drink water, eat food, sleep, repeat. I would simply react to world stimulus at a very basic level performing only repeated mundane tasks to stay alive. Like a shell of a person I guess.

 

[SocialzERo]

you've always sounded sorta cucked to me ngl. this post was kinda the nail in the coffin.

 

[LesscoBlob]

Similarly, if they'd kept the lobotomy around and perfected it more, and gave me one like i've wanted for fucking years now jfl, i'd essentially become an organic robot too.My emotions would be removed, I would have no free thought, I wouldn't be able to imagine. I would no longer feel any mental nor physical pain. I wouldn't have wants, desires, ideas. All of the stuff that makes life painful and horrible would be gone. I would simply have basic instincts to survive I guess, drink water, eat food, sleep, repeat. I would simply react to world stimulus at a very basic level performing only repeated mundane tasks to stay alive. Like a shell of a person I guess.

Which proves that without radical procedures, we're not robots, or alike to robots. Machines are not intelligent. Humans are. Machines are simply efficient and obedient.

 

[The Enforcer]

Which proves that without radical procedures, we're not robots, or alike to robots. Machines are not intelligent. Humans are. Machines are simply efficient and obedient.

well of course humans arent organic robots jfl. But many species are. They operate like a machine, they serve only that purpose and are pretty much lobotomized by nature itself.

 

[LesscoBlob]

well of course humans arent organic robots jfl. But many species are. They operate like a machine, they serve only that purpose and are pretty much lobotomized by nature itself.

That's correct, but that still doesn't mean that they aren't really living. In order for advanced, intelligent life to exist, much less complicated life forms are required. We couldn't exist if single-cell organisms didn't exist.

 

[Zhou Chang-Xing]

Revenge is justice.

That aside I'm not pro death penalty.

 

[The Enforcer]

That's correct, but that still doesn't mean that they aren't really living. In order for advanced, intelligent life to exist, much less complicated life forms are required. We couldn't exist if single-cell organisms didn't exist.

I wasnt claiming anything to the contrary. I just dont originally see any of it as a reason to believe in any sort of afterlife tbh. God is just cope jfl

 

[LesscoBlob]

I wasnt claiming anything to the contrary. I just dont originally see any of it as a reason to believe in any sort of afterlife tbh. God is just cope jfl

And I'm also not trying to attack your personal beliefs. However it should be pointed out that most things in life are copes. If you are not satisfied with your life and haven't killed yourself (or even contemplated killing yourself), you are coping.

 

[The Enforcer]

And I'm also not trying to attack your personal beliefs. However it should be pointed out that most things in life are copes. If you are not satisfied with your life and haven't killed yourself (or even contemplated killing yourself), you are coping.

life is one steady stream of cope-a-cola