I am well aware that most people do not even have to go through self improvement in life, don't waste time telling me water, but some here do not even try in life but are obsessed with chasing female validation while not even trying to become the type of man that is worthy of having any authority in any field. Just because you were given a disadvantage from the beginning compared to others, does not mean it isn't worth trying at all. That's like being bad at a videogame and giving up at getting good just because you're not automatically as good as the average player.
I've met people on here and discord that call everything a cope, constantly passive aggressive, addicted to porn, overly skinny/overweight, dismiss self improvement completely, do nothing but browse the forums all day and spend hours trolling the retards at IT instead of actually doing their best to live a decent productive life I've even met some faggots who match the stereotype of not showering often.
I am not saying any of this will definitely get you a girlfriend, I am proof of that, but I hate my life far less than I used to since I became more productive.
Only low testosterone bitches will get mad at this post.
Yes, there is absolutely truth to this and you have good points. Many incels/blackpilled guys are very reductive, extreme, and lazy in their thinking to the point they will just refuse to be constructive and say ludicrous things, it's something I've observed reading and talking to them online (not just here) over years.
Posts like this that
criticize incels are
precisely what make me realize how important this forum truly is, because everyone here has to be celibate and this is strictly enforced. So it's a place for thoughts this to even have a chance of being fairly and objectively addressed without bias. If it were
anywhere else on the internet, sex-having normies would be flying in and saying the most predictable shit that would only make everyone here feel more justified in the way they think. (because 100% of women and 99.99% of sex-having men can't acknowledge our situation without condescending us that, somehow, in
some way, it might be our fault. It's truly rare for men to not do this, even a large % of men who are single and aren't getting laid would have the same attitude to us. Also more guys that understand us would exist if suicide wasn't a thing...many of
the ones who would killed themselves. A dark point that rarely gets made.) The
original post that contains the incel meet-up reply I linked to below really celebrates this forum for a place we can find solace and agree with things on, but it rarely gets addressed what a potentially useful place this is to criticize each other's thoughts and
disagree, for the reasons I just said.
It's clear from your post that you've considered exactly what I've said and between this site and the Discord taken a careful look at this and what they're saying and unlike normies it isn't coming from a place of bias or malice because, needless to say, you're in the same boat as us. (otherwise you wouldn't be here.) This makes the replies here just dismissing what you're saying and calling you names stupid: by acting like you're just another normie, they're not acknowledging what I just said and even refusing to refute your criticism they clearly disagree with. (which only demonstrates there's truth to what you're saying)
But here's the thing. It didn't just "happen" that incels have the logic you highlighted, as much as you're right that to a significant extent they're making excuses to not try as much in their lives as they could be. You have to remember that normies
always tell ugly and/or short and/or financially poor and/or disabled men there's more they could be doing and that if they're still not successful and get rejected by even average and sub-5 women they try to meet and date, (and the fact that this is more the case now than it was in the past, which they want to deflect from understanding) it must be because they aren't trying enough. The overwhelming majority of people in society have this mindset to us, the redpill is but a specific form of it.
I'm obviously assuming you're familiar with the incel critique to the redpill, but I do wish your post acknowledged this more. Of course, just because incels
are right to note this, is not the same thing as saying that all of us
should not try and that it can't necessarily lead to success. To the extent it can, it is worth it, of course. But psychologically speaking, isn't it easy to see how that grey area of uncertainty (i.e. many men try over years and still don't see success despite working to make a lot of money, diligently going to the gym, learning and practicing game etc.) leads many men to just give up early? (and from there, justify it, of course.) They aren't necessarily saying there is zero chance of success if they put in all that effort over years, but because there's no guarantee even after all of that effort, it's not only easier to preemptively give up but actively saves one from a lot of potential wasted effort and disappointment. To be fair, you could have acknowledged this more in your post, preferably with sympathy. (not something we can ever expect)
The point is that normies/redpillers are the ones mostly responsible for encouraging this fallacy (not noting the distinction I highlighted and just blanket telling all men, regardless of their height, looks, and other factors outside of their control, that they need to keep trying and if they don't find success it's because they haven't enough) and it's just despicable that it's always incels, the guys who are already completely down on their luck with nothing, that get accused of being the fallacious ones. ("it's not that you aren't successful because trying wouldn't make a difference, you aren't successful because you don't try!") From the introduction:
The Blackpill looks at a man's likelihood for romantic success along every dimension: race, height, age, face, build, money, mental health, disabilities, and more. Certain "unattractive" features can be more harmful than others or compensated for in different ways. The Blackpill can help an unattractive man find his best pathway to success, if any exists. However, if a man has fallen short in every category of life, it is unlikely he will find a way to succeed. One must always look at the total picture.
The value of the blackpill is that it emphasizes (at least in theory) starting from an objective place that confronts the truth without bias even when it's politically incorrect or "uncomfortable," then from there soberly acknowledging the potential for what is within a man's control to change bringing him better odds of success. Note that most people do the reverse: assume the man is at fault and isn't doing enough purely because in
some cases, effort corresponds to increased chances of success. They just refuse to confront the fact that this isn't always the case, because they not only do not care about the most unfortunate members of society, they actively hate us because it's the only way they can not feel guilty to support a society that leads to people like us existing.
I've even met some faggots who match the stereotype of not showering often.
The sheer quantity of normies that tell all incels "just shower" "just work out" "just learn game" "just be confident" will always be incomporably more egregious than the existence of the minority of men on this forum who actually happen to not practice good hygiene.
One last important point: a common thing I hear from normies goes something along the lines of: "incels (by which they mean
people on the incel forums, so the subreddits when they used to exist, this, and the discords — this is the first fallacy, they conveniently don't distinguish from the condition of inceldom and self-identified incels in an online incel community) aren't even all ugly. Most of them are average looking guys, the reason they're perpetually single is (you guessed it) they aren't working to improve + social awkwardness and autism"
Again, there is truth to this. While it's not common for the guys here to be actively attractive, it's certainly not true that the majority are very ugly, either.
(See: this) The reality is most guys here are in the range of average or slightly/somewhat below average. (but short height compounded with this can really be a death sentence.) Therefore, especially on such a relatively small corner of the internet with its own groupthink, and just frankly from observation it's obvious that we rank a lot higher for neuro atypicality than the general population.
But do you see how this emphasis on us being "autistic" is really the same thing? It takes attention away from criticizing the broader issue and factors in society that make is so more men are in this situation than are in the past. (not evenly corresponding to the population increasing) This is of course also why they conflate the condition of being involuntarily celibate to "being an incel." (it
should go without saying, but evidently doesn't, that the overwhelming majority of men in society who are perpetually single and dejected despite efforts to meet women neither identify as "incel" nor belong to an online incel community like this one.)
I don't see this specific point addressed that much, and definitely plan to write a post about this later.
