Russia's mediocre effort so far in the war

[WizardofSoda]

-2.5 years into the war and the frontlines have barely moved in 2 years.
-Russia controls 20% of Ukraine.

-Russia did one mobilization in early 2023 then nothing since.
-Russia has been slow scaling up its military industry.

The West senses weakness and keeps pushing.

In Russian cities, slavwhores are still partying in nightclubs with corrupt Russian government officials, politicians and businessmen.

 

[Ron.Belgrade]

Cope

We will dance on ukraine's grave In a few years

 

[InceldianWarrior]

Russia is coming out of it with new, more reliable production lines, ukraine's most ressource-rich lands and a much more experienced military.
They've already won, they don't need to rush things.
War isn't about painting the map, they are completely grinding down the ukrainian army and when the ukrainian line breaks they will overrun the country.

 

[InceldianWarrior]

We will dance on ukraine's grave In a few years

damn I didn't realise you were based like that

 

[To koniec]

Cope

We will dance on ukraine's grave In a few years

most of cels ( real cels ) will rope by that time

 

[Seahorsecel]

Cope

We will dance on ukraine's grave In a few years

We will dance on their graves by
2022
2023
2024
2025
2026
...

 

[WizardofSoda]

Russia is coming out of it with new, more reliable production lines, ukraine's most ressource-rich lands and a much more experienced military.
They've already won, they don't need to rush things.
War isn't about painting the map, they are completely grinding down the ukrainian army and when the ukrainian line breaks they will overrun the country.

There are some positive things for Russia like you are saying..

Don't you think its a bit half-ass though, considering a very serious war deep within the ex-Soviet Union, that Russia cannot lose this or it will be taken over by the West.

 

[Retardfuel]

All this war is just "them" making money and milking, it will be long long war

 

[Sloth Vs Kanga]

Cope

We will dance on ukraine's grave In a few years

 

[InceldianWarrior]

Don't you think its a bit half-ass though

It is half-assed, but this way the war doesn't destroy their civilian economy. They could do another round of conscription to try and overrun Ukraine quickly by attacking from the North again but it would cause instability and would be costly.

The current strategy is working pretty well as they have a massive artillery advantage and Ukraine is having severe manpower issues.

They might try to rush things if it looked like Ukraine was going to close the gap, but I don't think that's going to happen as western support wanes more and more.

Putin can take his time, and the more time he takes the less the West will care when he finally annexes the whole thing.

Russia cannot lose this or it will be taken over by the West.

I don't think Russia can lose. Ukraine hasn't been able to push back since they retook Kharkiv and Kherson (which was what a year and a half ago ?).
IF Russia somehow lost, I'm not sure Putin's government would even collapse.

 

[WizardofSoda]

All this war is just "them" making money and milking, it will be long long war

That seems the most rational reason. Keep the two sides balanced.

 

[WizardofSoda]

It is half-assed, but this way the war doesn't destroy their civilian economy. They could do another round of conscription to try and overrun Ukraine quickly by attacking from the North again but it would cause instability and would be costly.

The current strategy is working pretty well as they have a massive artillery advantage and Ukraine is having severe manpower issues.

They might try to rush things if it looked like Ukraine was going to close the gap, but I don't think that's going to happen as western support wanes more and more.

Putin can take his time, and the more time he takes the less the West will care when he finally annexes the whole thing.


I don't think Russia can lose. Ukraine hasn't been able to push back since they retook Kharkiv and Kherson (which was what a year and a half ago ?).
IF Russia somehow lost, I'm not sure Putin's government would even collapse.

Way I view the overall strategic situation is say Russia gets the 4 SE provinces and keeps them. While it would be enough for Russia to claim a victory at home, to me it would be a major strategic problem.

As the West would then keep control of 80% of Ukraine. Imo whether the West gets 80% or 100% of Ukraine in an overall strategic sense doesn't make much difference.

Good point that Russia could possibly scale things up in a hurry if it felt Ukraine was going to close the gap.

 

[WizardofSoda]

Putin can take his time, and the more time he takes the less the West will care when he finally annexes the whole thing.

Interesting point.

 

[Cryotron]

slavwhores are still partying in nightclubs with

Churkas

 

[Cryotron]

Country that can't take down NATO UAVs that coordinate strikes on Crimea and other regions is a joke.

 

[InceldianWarrior]

As the West would then keep control of 80% of Ukraine. Imo whether the West gets 80% or 100% of Ukraine in an overall strategic sense doesn't make much difference.

I'm not sure how much the rest of Ukraine is worth. All the gas and minerals are in Donbass.
I don't think giving the EU and NATO another more corrupt and poorer Poland will change much overall, whereas Russia will be considerably strengthened.


1 - Novorossiya is ressource rich.

2 - It gives them another connection to Crimea other than the bridge and stops Ukraine from retaking it (Crimea is important because Sevastopol is Russia's only deep sea warm water port, their other ports are either too shallow or freeze in winter).

3 - As the SE is the most Russian part of Ukraine, integrating it should take minimal effort compared to the rest.


Nato comes out strengthened, but less than Russia in my opinion.

 

[Incel_Doomer]

Both sides are controlled by the same 'people', whoever or whatever is at the top of the pyramid. Even without WMDs Russia could overrun the Ukraine in a few months if it wanted. The idea is to wreck and ethnically cleanse the Ukraine and set up a new Jewish state there.

 

[bcroger]

w/ all the crazy chit going on in Russia and Ukraine, why aren't we getting more immigrants and refugees from Russia/Ukraine? Seems we only get immigrants from Mexico/South America and if we are lucky, a few skilled ones from India and China.

 

[edgelordcel]

Cope

We will dance on ukraine's grave In a few years

Fag

 

[Ron.Belgrade]

Fag

Cope harder jakov sime matkovic

 

[Incel_Doomer]

Cope

We will dance on ukraine's grave In a few years

The population has almost halved since independence (52 million in '91 to maybe 28 million under the Kiev regime's control. 28 million could even be a high estimate.) Low birth rate, emigration, loss of territory and now war deaths. Shit fake country, the sooner it goes away the better.

It's only existed 33 years, and in that time had two revolutions, got taken over by a CIA Colour Revolution and had basically open Jewish martial law installed, not even local Jews but local Jews taking their orders from Jews in the USA (who take orders from Jews in London) and lost about a fifth of its territory and half its population (so far).

You can't really get solid statistics but probably two thirds or three quarters of a million soldiers killed or crippled (mainly young, healthy men obviously, who will now never have children, probably didn't have any yet) and the economy would be something like Ghana without Western support. Many of the young women have either left, and will have non-Ukrainian babies and never come back, or can't find a Ukrainian husband for obvious reasons. Those may still leave.

I remember before the war the Ukraine had the worst-performing economy in the world, ie the rate of decline, and was the second-poorest country in Europe. In the USSR it was one of the highest-performing areas economically, access to the sea, good climate and agricultural land, lots of coal, steel, industry etc.

So yep, the Ukraine definitely has one foot in the grave. Just don't tolerate or obey Jews, how hard is it? Difficulty level: impossible for a lot of people it seems.

 

[Tavast]

Cope harder jakov sime matkovic

How come you don't join the Russian military in Ukraine instead of talking shit online? Are you ethnically Russian or Serb?

 

[Ron.Belgrade]

How come you don't join the Russian military in Ukraine instead of talking shit online? Are you ethnically Russian or Serb?

I am ethically albanian

 

[FrenchcelNeverbegan]

is russia going slowly on purpose or because it just can't do much actually that's what i wonder , from all the info i have seen i think that russia globally can't do much , neither can ukraine don't get me wrong.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtXvJrPyoOg&t=292s


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifHAZCfsGJM&t=686s

i know those are just yt videos but it's hard to find anything , losses are probably huge on both sides.

 

[NiggerSlayer]

Russia cannot lose this or it will be taken over by the West.

If Russia loses, they get humiliated but that's it. Russia doesn't stand to lose anything at all from this war other than the lives and money they've put into the war effort. For the most part, the Russian people don't even feel strongly about the war since its not within their borders (well there is shelling in their borders but aside from that) so i don't think the people care enough to coup Putin if they lose. And as for the west, Russia will never be taken over by the West unless it happens in a massive world war. The west won't magically gain Russia if Russia retreats out of Ukraine

 

[Incel_Doomer]

Cope

We will dance on ukraine's grave In a few years

 

[ethniccel1]

-2.5 years into the war and the frontlines have barely moved in 2 years.
-Russia controls 20% of Ukraine.

-Russia did one mobilization in early 2023 then nothing since.
-Russia has been slow scaling up its military industry.

The West senses weakness and keeps pushing.

In Russian cities, slavwhores are still partying in nightclubs with corrupt Russian government officials, politicians and businessmen.

i think Russia has done brilliantly considering they are fighting the entire NATO alliance. Sanctions from pretty much all Western countries and their bullied vassals in African and Asia, South America etc. Able to actually need only 1 mass mobilization for such a high kill rate against a well funded well oiled NATO machine in the Ukrainiane army. Russias economy doing decently despite all the sanctions. Its more like the West is suffering, UK reduced to a poverty ridden shithole, USA standard of livibg reduced to 4th world living for the common burgercel, Germanys economy fucked up because of no more Russian gas.


War is just not the frontline, first its economic, social, political and stuff , the frontline eventually follows. If Russia keeps this up another 2 years imagine what a stinking quality of life Brits will have and what a shithole economy Germany will have.

 

[WizardofSoda]

If Russia loses, they get humiliated but that's it. Russia doesn't stand to lose anything at all from this war other than the lives and money they've put into the war effort. For the most part, the Russian people don't even feel strongly about the war since its not within their borders (well there is shelling in their borders but aside from that) so i don't think the people care enough to coup Putin if they lose. And as for the west, Russia will never be taken over by the West unless it happens in a massive world war. The west won't magically gain Russia if Russia retreats out of Ukraine

I drew on the black line in eastern Ukraine and the blue line connecting the Baltic Sea to the Black Sea. If the West gets 80% of Ukraine that goes deep into the area.

I don't think Russia would get attacked by the West militarily, but it seems likely to me that Belarus and Russia would go pro-Western over time, like pro-Western politicians eventually get in and make deals with the West.

 

[slavcel11]

russia and ukraine in this war are like two drunkards fighting in slow motion through the eyes of quentin tarantino, everyone is tired of this farce already

 

[NorthernWind]

How come you don't join the Russian military in Ukraine instead of talking shit online? Are you ethnically Russian or Serb?

How come all Ukraine supporters don't join Ukrainian army?

 

[NorthernWind]

It seems that the key city in the Donbass is about to fall.


View: Https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtyFRGWOCoY

 

[Tavast]

​

How come all Ukraine supporters don't join Ukrainian army?

I am not ethnically Ukrainian and the process of joining the foreign legion is not easy nor do they take anyone who walks into their office in Lviv. If you are ethnically Russian though it is not difficult to sign up for the Russian army and that is why I asked if he was Serbian or Russian.

If my country was ever attacked by Russia, which I found unlikely, I'll sign up day one. Against the devil and the Russians

 

[NorthernWind]

​

I am not ethnically Ukrainian and the process of joining the foreign legion is not easy nor do they take anyone who walks into their office in Lviv. If you are ethnically Russian though it is not difficult to sign up for the Russian army and that is why I asked if he was Serbian or Russian.

If my country was ever attacked by Russia, which I found unlikely, I'll sign up day one. Against the devil and the Russians

NATO scum are the devils.

 

[Tavast]

NATO scum are the devils.

My people have lived next to Russians for 1000 years and they have caused us much more bloodshed than brotherhood. Russian's are a mongoloid mix of mongols, tatars, caucasians, slavs, finno-ugric peoples, buryatians and God knows what. They are the Eurasian golden horde. I don't hate all Russian's but I don't want to live as a slave to the Putinist regime in Moscow or Saint Petersburg, overrun with migrants from the caucasus.

With that said I respect those Russians who fight against the regime for Slavic lands and traditions. Unfortunately they are a small minority...


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFMxSRzMl7s

 

[NorthernWind]

My people have lived next to Russians for 1000 years and they have caused us much more bloodshed than brotherhood. Russian's are a mongoloid mix of mongols, tatars, caucasians, slavs, finno-ugric peoples, buryatians and God knows what. They are the Eurasian golden horde. I don't hate all Russian's but I don't want to live as a slave to the Putinist regime in Moscow or Saint Petersburg, overrun with migrants from the caucasus.

With that said I respect those Russians who fight against the regime for Slavic lands and traditions. Unfortunately they are a small minority...


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFMxSRzMl7s

Ukrainians are a mix of Slavs and Tatars btw.
If Russians are golden horde, why Moscow signed a treaty with Tver against golden horde in 1379 if I'm not mistaken? Why Moscow fought against golden horde till the second half of XV century when Tatars finally lost their influence on Russian lands?

Also JFL if you compare migrants from the Caucasus ( relatively small region ) with millions of Muslims and blacks coming to Europe because of EU and NATO.
Are you Polish btw? Ukrainians often massacred Poles given the chance because of oppression and poles brought Jews on Russian lands ( including Ukrainian ).

 

[Knajjd]

How come all Ukraine supporters don't join Ukrainian army?

 

[Tavast]

Ukrainians are a mix of Slavs and Tatars btw.
If Russians are golden horde, why Moscow signed a treaty with Tver against golden horde in 1379 if I'm not mistaken? Why Moscow fought against golden horde till the second half of XV century when Tatars finally lost their influence on Russian lands?

Also JFL if you compare migrants from the Caucasus ( relatively small region ) with millions of Muslims and blacks coming to Europe because of EU and NATO.
Are you Polish btw? Ukrainians often massacred Poles given the chance because of oppression and poles brought Jews on Russian lands ( including Ukrainian ).

You are not ethnic Russian? If you study Russian history you'll come to find out that Russians integrated mongolian imperialism and made it their own. Russia is built partly on a Slavic, Orthodox byzantine tradition but also on a Mongolian one. As to why I use the term golden horde.

You don't seem to know anything about immigration in Russia. Have you acctually been to the country? I've been to both Moscow and Saint Petersburg and you'll see immigrants from caucasus everywhere you go. Moscow is the city on the European continent with the largest amount of Muslims, 2 million...

I am not Polish and yes I am aware of OUN/UPA actions in Volhyn, Galicizia. I am very interested in your ethnic origin. Are you a Serb or any similar ethnicity by any chance?

 

[NorthernWind]

You are not ethnic Russian? If you study Russian history you'll come to find out that Russians integrated mongolian imperialism and made it their own. Russia is built partly on a Slavic, Orthodox byzantine tradition but also on a Mongolian one. As to why I use the term golden horde.

You don't seem to know anything about immigration in Russia. Have you acctually been to the country? I've been to both Moscow and Saint Petersburg and you'll see immigrants from caucasus everywhere you go. Moscow is the city on the European continent with the largest amount of Muslims, 2 million...

I am not Polish and yes I am aware of OUN/UPA actions in Volhyn, Galicizia. I am very interested in your ethnic origin. Are you a Serb or any similar ethnicity by any chance?

I'm an Eastern Slav ( I have Russian, Ukrainian and Belarusian blood to some extent ).
There are various misconceptions and propaganda when it comes to Russian, Ukrainian, Belarusian history.
Ukrainian and Belarusian lands were under the Polish cultural influence for many centuries so there are people who are interested to paint Russian history in black tones because of formal territorial disputes.

I would compare rise of Moscow and creation of the Russian state lately to the Spanish reconquista. Would you also say that Spaniards integrated Moorish imperialism? Those who point at the Moscow's relationships with golden horde forget that king Daniel of Galicia ( iconic person for Ukrainian nationalists ) also went to Horde and collaborated with Povotsy ( Turkic nomadic people ) against European countries such as Poland and Hungary.
If you understand Russian language, then I can recommend you some books written by authors of Ukrainian national revival in XIX century about relationships between Russia and Ukraine without modern politicization.

I haven't been in Russia but I see migrants very often where I live ( including blacks ) and I have visited European cities full of migrants ( like Berlin ).

I also find it funny when people believe that there was such thing as Slavic brotherhood. Conflicts between Serbs and Croatians, Serbs and Bulgarians, Poles and Ukrainians, Czechs and Poles, Russians and Poles etc. tell otherwise.
And yes, majority of inhabitants of Russia are Slavs.

Those Finno-Ugric and Siberian ( Tungusic ) people are a few and Finno-Ugric people are white.

 

[Tavast]

I'm an Eastern Slav ( I have Russian, Ukrainian and Belarusian blood to some extent ).
There are various misconceptions and propaganda when it comes to Russian, Ukrainian, Belarusian history.
Ukrainian and Belarusian lands were under the Polish cultural influence for many centuries so there are people who are interested to paint Russian history in black tones because of formal territorial disputes.

I would compare rise of Moscow and creation of the Russian state lately to the Spanish reconquista. Would you also say that Spaniards integrated Moorish imperialism? Those who point at the Moscow's relationships with golden horde forget that king Daniel of Galicia ( iconic person for Ukrainian nationalists ) also went to Horde and collaborated with Povotsy ( Turkic nomadic people ) against European countries such as Poland and Hungary.
If you understand Russian language, then I can recommend you some books written by authors of Ukrainian national revival in XIX century about relationships between Russia and Ukraine without modern politicization.

I haven't been in Russia but I see migrants very often where I live ( including blacks ) and I have visited European cities full of migrants ( like Berlin ).

I also find it funny when people believe that there was such thing as Slavic brotherhood. Conflicts between Serbs and Croatians, Serbs and Bulgarians, Poles and Ukrainians, Czechs and Poles, Russians and Poles etc. tell otherwise.
And yes, majority of inhabitants of Russia are Slavs.

View attachment 1192704

Those Finno-Ugric and Siberian ( Tungusic ) people are a few and Finno-Ugric people are white.

View attachment 1192705

I don't speak fluent Russian. I can read cyrillic and understand maybe 50% of the language. I am ethnic Finnish but I grew up in another country. My family is from the border between Finland and Russia. As I said, we Finns have lived for 1000 years with Russians and you have caused us 10x more bloodshed than brotherhood. Ultimately I am a Finnish nationalist and I view history and geopolitics from such a perspective.

With that said I don't hate all Russians and everything Russian. I find Russian history fascinating and I've read all classical Russian authors: Dostojevskij, Pushkin, Gogol, Tolstoy, etc. Regarding the idea that Russians integrated Mongolian imperialism this is not based on my analysis. This is the words of Alexander Dugin, some Russian historians I've read in translation as well as lecturers at my University. Imperialism is central to Russian identity. I am not an imperialist. I am a nationalist. I am ready to fight and protect my country but I don't want to to give my life for foreign lands containing foreign people. As I said, I don't want to live in your multiethnic empire. I don't want to live with Chechens, Tajiks, Buryatians. I don't want to belong to this Eurasian civilization.

 

[Tavast]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynC0TcVNhqc&t=57s


I don't want to live with such people. I ask you what regions of Russia have high birth rates and which ones have low birth rates? In 100 years you'll be more Asian that Slavic. You are going through the same demographic replacements as Western Europe just in your own way. Why go to war, when in your own lands, foreigners do what they want...

 

[NorthernWind]

I don't speak fluent Russian. I can read cyrillic and understand maybe 50% of the language. I am ethnic Finnish but I grew up in another country. My family is from the border between Finland and Russia. As I said, we Finns have lived for 1000 years with Russians and you have caused us 10x more bloodshed than brotherhood. Ultimately I am a Finnish nationalist and I view history and geopolitics from such a perspective.

I don't know history of Russian-Finnish relations well but there are a few points.
Finns were dealing with Kievan Rus first ( some Ukrainian nationalists will say that it was 'Ukrainian' state so your pretensions should be aimed at Ukraine but strangely, nor Finns neither Estonians, Latvians and Lithuanians blame Ukraine when Kievan rulers invaded these lands ).

Then you were dealing with Novgorod republic. I suppose there were much bloodshed but Finnish lands were invaded by Swedes also.
Why Finns don't have pretensions to Swedes who were occupants? If I'm not mistaken there were even crusades against Finnish heathens. Why it's Okay for you to be a part of Europe those rulers and popes wanted to conquer your people?

Also in the Russian empire Finland had autonomy so it wasn't oppressed that much.
The newly formed Finnish state wasn't very peaceful as far as I remember. Both Finland and USSR had wanted parts of each other's territory.
When after Winter war and Continuation war Finland and USSR had quite good relationships till the end of Soviet Union existence.

So I don't think Russian-Finnish relationships were that bad excluding 1939-1944 period. Certainly better than the Russian-Polish relationships.

The problem is that Finland was a part of Sweden for many centuries and I assume that many Finns associated themselves with Swedes and, as Sweden and Russia were often at war, they also viewed Russia as enemy.

 

[NorthernWind]

With that said I don't hate all Russians and everything Russian. I find Russian history fascinating and I've read all classical Russian authors: Dostojevskij, Pushkin, Gogol, Tolstoy, etc. Regarding the idea that Russians integrated Mongolian imperialism this is not based on my analysis. This is the words of Alexander Dugin, some Russian historians I've read in translation as well as lecturers at my University. Imperialism is central to Russian identity. I am not an imperialist. I am a nationalist. I am ready to fight and protect my country but I don't want to to give my life for foreign lands containing foreign people. As I said, I don't want to live in your multiethnic empire. I don't want to live with Chechens, Tajiks, Buryatians. I don't want to belong to this Eurasian civilization.

I personally don't like Chechens not because I encountered them but because they have a bad reputation but I don't understand enmity towards other nations.
Why Saami and Somalians are better than Buryats?

 

[Tavast]

I don't know history of Russian-Finnish relations well but there are a few points.
Finns were dealing with Kievan Rus first ( some Ukrainian nationalists will say that it was 'Ukrainian' state so your pretensions should be aimed at Ukraine but strangely, nor Finns neither Estonians, Latvians and Lithuanians blame Ukraine when Kievan rulers invaded these lands ).

Then you were dealing with Novgorod republic. I suppose there were much bloodshed but Finnish lands were invaded by Swedes also.
Why Finns don't have pretensions to Swedes who were occupants? If I'm not mistaken there were even crusades against Finnish heathens. Why it's Okay for you to be a part of Europe those rulers and popes wanted to conquer your people?

Also in the Russian empire Finland had autonomy so it wasn't oppressed that much.
The newly formed Finnish state wasn't very peaceful as far as I remember. Both Finland and USSR had wanted parts of each other's territory.
When after Winter war and Continuation war Finland and USSR had quite good relationships till the end of Soviet Union existence.

So I don't think Russian-Finnish relationships were that bad excluding 1939-1944 period. Certainly better than the Russian-Polish relationships.

The problem is that Finland was a part of Sweden for many centuries and I assume that many Finns associated themselves with Swedes and, as Sweden and Russia were often at war, they also viewed Russia as enemy.

I don't care about events during Kievan-rus period and Novgorod period. I care about these things:

Greath wrath between 1714-1721.

Great Wrath - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

During Nikolaj II's rule Finland suffered a period of russification leading to strong resistance to Russian rule.

Russification of Finland - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Killing of Finns in Ingria during the 1930s.

Finnish Operation of the NKVD - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

During 1939-1944 we fought two wars against the Soviet union. Around 100 000 of our soldiers lost their lives. We hade to give away 11% of our land to the Soviets and 400 000 people became internal refugees. We had to pay the largest per capita war compensation out of all European countries, to the Soviets. We had to drive out 200 000 german soldiers from Northern Finland, a condition that the Soviets forced upon us.

We had "good" relations with Russia because Russia forced us to as part of the peace treaty in 1944. We had to remain neutral, it was one of the conditions. Following the war in Ukraine Finland has however joined NATO and there is no love for Russians in Finland, no.

As I said I am ultimately a Finnish nationalist. Organizations like the Karelian movement and the Lappo movement were staunch anti-Russian. I will remain the same. Pirua ja ryssää vastaan, against the Russians and the devil.

 

[NorthernWind]

I don't care about events during Kievan-rus period and Novgorod period. I care about these things:

Greath wrath between 1714-1721.

Great Wrath - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

During Nikolaj II's rule Finland suffered a period of russification leading to strong resistance to Russian rule.

Russification of Finland - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Killing of Finns in Ingria during the 1930s.

Finnish Operation of the NKVD - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You're posting things which occur in every war/conflict.
I'm sure Sweden ( with Finnish help ) also caused many troubles to the Russian population, especially in XVII century.
These things aren't strong enough to create enmity between nations.

 

[NorthernWind]

During 1939-1944 we fought two wars against the Soviet union. Around 100 000 of our soldiers lost their lives. We hade to give away 11% of our land to the Soviets and 400 000 people became internal refugees. We had to pay the largest per capita war compensation out of all European countries, to the Soviets. We had to drive out 200 000 german soldiers from Northern Finland, a condition that the Soviets forced upon us.

We had "good" relations with Russia because Russia forced us to as part of the peace treaty in 1944. We had to remain neutral, it was one of the conditions. Following the war in Ukraine Finland has however joined NATO and there is no love for Russians in Finland, no.

As I said I am ultimately a Finnish nationalist. Organizations like the Karelian movement and the Lappo movement were staunch anti-Russian. I will remain the same. Pirua ja ryssää vastaan, against the Russians and the devil.

There was a war with Soviets in 1918-1922 if I'm not mistaken. Or at least with the red Finns.
So I think roots of the Winter war lie not in the end of 1930s but earlier.
Unfortunately, I can't say anything specific now. I used to read a few books about history of Finland and Winter war but it was many years ago so I don't remember that much.
But I remember that relationships between Finns and Soviets/Russians were already bad in 1918.

 

[NorthernWind]

There are pro-Russian Finns, of course.
Https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ano_Turtiainen

 

[Tavast]

There are pro-Russian Finns, of course.
Https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ano_Turtiainen

There is a small minority as in any country. There are pro-Ukrainian Russians. Two can play such games


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHcaoaYJ3K4


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSwDNpvdbz4



View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8P8UCQAYP2s

 

[WizardofSoda]

I think the reason for Russia' mediocre war effort is that the Russian elites and Russian people are only mediocre behind the war. They will support the war as long as its not like mass conscription or war economy. That could change as the war goes on, the Russian people could get behind the war more fully.

 

[Tavast]

I think the reason for Russia' mediocre war effort is that the Russian elites and Russian people are only mediocre behind the war. They will support the war as long as its not like mass conscription or war economy. That could change as the war goes on, the Russian people could get behind the war more fully.

It is extremely difficult to predict the future and I certainly don't believe people on this forum has it all figured out. I don't think anyone here has done military service nor have any experience working with geopolitics, international relations, etc. Everyone here is a complete laymen.

I personally don't make predictions.

 

[WizardofSoda]

In war you want overwhelming force and a sense of inevitability.

Half-assing a war and getting bogged down it leads to many problems. One is that the Ukrainians haven't given up. And NATO is now emboldened and senses blood in the water so is pushing.