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Discussion Question about italy

SCP-Gorillion

SCP-Gorillion

OBSESSED with black cock
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Joined
Apr 14, 2020
Posts
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Why they fallen so hard ?, they used to be center of western civilization until 18 century, produced mayor arts of western civilization ( nobody surprassed them in this category ), used to be most important western country for millennium

So what went wrong, civilization moved in hands of Britain, France and Germany, while italy had some influence it could nothing compare to past
Is it a med sea ? med sea used to be center of world since antiquity and after discover of america it lost it's importance, cause there new ways to trade ?

Want to see your insigthful thoughts
@BummerDrummer
@Legionarivs fellow italian
@PPEcel come on asian boi
@your personality
@Copexodius Maximus
@starcrapoo
 
Nothing went wrong priorities just shifted.
 
Barbarian and later Muslim invasions moved a lot of the romans descendants upwards into the north (Lombardy) which is why a lot of the Renaissance was centered in the north. Those people gradually moved out as well. Same with Greece.
 
It's because of the southern-most Italians such as @AAAAAAAAAAAcel.
 
are you italian ?

Nah just interested in History.

As you've stated the discovery of the New World and the subsequent change in trade routes is one part why Italy lost it's significance compared to Britain or France.
 
It's because of the southern-most Italians such as @AAAAAAAAAAAcel.
This is an incel moment.

You may be wondering what an "incel moment" is, well here it is, defined.

-When confronted with interracial relationships, this triggers a primal urge in the incel. Half enraged, half aroused he is reminded by his own loneliness and the high desire to be in a meaningful relationship with a women. Protip, he never will

-When confronted by criticism of race and gender dynamics, wojacks, ad-homs will follow. The incel isn't educated so his immediate reaction is to rage and expose his white fragility

-Though he posts photos and memes about how he hates women, all he wants is to be with a women. The problem is, he's not attractive and never will be. Women avoid him like a plague so he attacks anonymously on the internet (notice how he's a complete coward).

-His response when he has no argument is typical "dilate", "nigger", "cope" "seethe" etc. You know when they post this, you've won and witnessed an incel moment.

-Deep down, they're extremely fragile and insecure. They've never really interacted with people outside of their own family so they've never developed proper intellectual and emotional relationships.

-Typically lean right, MAGA despite not really knowing anything about policy, history or society in general. They're obsessed with SJW's, women, minorities even though they don't know any. Easily brainwashed and indoctrinated. Youtubers like PJW, Milo & Steven Crowder have them changing their worldviews every video they post. They're unable to form coherent arguments but are overly emotional when it comes to issues. Notice phrases like "Political correction is destroying our media!" despite not giving any examples on set topics.

That's it folks, a quick guide to spot incel moments and incel rage. Pass it along.
 
586859940
 
Barbarian and later Muslim invasions moved a lot of the romans descendants upwards into the north (Lombardy) which is why a lot of the Renaissance was centered in the north. Those people gradually moved out as well. Same with Greece.

What does Roman descendants mean in this context? all people who lived in Italy were Romans from Roman point of view.

'Romans were different from Italians' is largely a meme tbh, i've read extensively about this topic and found nothing of sorts.
 
What does Roman descendants mean in this context? all people who lived in Italy were Romans from Roman point of view.

'Romans were different from Italians' is largely a meme tbh, i've read extensively about this topic and found nothing of sorts.
ssshhhh it will destroy his nordic, WASP's fantasy
 
What does Roman descendants mean in this context? all people who lived in Italy were Romans from Roman point of view.

'Romans were different from Italians' is largely a meme tbh, i've read extensively about this topic and found nothing of sorts.
Moorish invasions did nothing to fuck up the gene pool? Sicilians and southern Italians haven’t been considered “white” since very very recently.
from the 1880s to mid-1920 s, when Southern Italian immigration was the largest and least desired immigrants to flow into the country, they did indeed experience many of the harsh and racial laws defined by the Jim Crow codes of the Southern States. In Italians in that era made up over 40% of the “white “ lynching population and the largest lynching in American history happened in New Orleans when 11 Italians were hunged by a mob of over 4000 Anglo Saxon Southern Gentry.
 
ssshhhh it will destroy his nordic, WASP's fantasy

I don't think he really thinks that, Nordic is a bit too much.

But anyways for evidence that Romans were more or less as swarthy as Italians you just need to look at mosaics/paintings and genetic analysis.
Moorish invasions did nothing to fuck up the gene pool? Sicilians and southern Italians haven’t been considered “white” since very very recently.
from the 1880s to mid-1920 s, when Southern Italian immigration was the largest and least desired immigrants to flow into the country, they did indeed experience many of the harsh and racial laws defined by the Jim Crow codes of the Southern States. In Italians in that era made up over 40% of the “white “ lynching population and the largest lynching in American history happened in New Orleans when 11 Italians were hunged by a mob of over 4000 Anglo Saxon Southern Gentry.

I didn't say that.

I said they looked 'largely' the same, and it's true.

There are three points i want to address.


1)They didn't look like Germans for one we know that from their own words so from that we can deduce from that that they were Med in appearance or at least similar.

2)From their mosaics/paintings it's also plain to see they were in appearance Med looking.

There’s a famous fresco from Pompeii dating to 1 century, the Portrait of Terentius Neo, which shows a prominent resident of Pompeii and his wife:

main-qimg-fd726fd1a8b170fccc7d3c8727989737


This is just one example out of many.



View: https://www.pinterest.com/sereneldy/pompeii-frescos/


3) Genetic and facial analysis has also shown that they were close to Italians and Med people in general.

Here's a facial reconstruction of a Roman nobleman from Ceaser's time.


Capture


Some facts :

-Skin whitening make up was common in Ancient Rome as pale complexion was not the natural skin color of the Romans.

Cosmetics in Ancient Rome - Wikipedia

-Romans gave nicknames which would occasionally turn into cognomina like Flavus (blondie), Ahenobarbus (red bearded), Niger, etc, a practice which only makes sense if the population looked Mediterranean. It would be fairly strange to nickname someone the blond in a Scandinavian nation, for example, as most of the Scandinavian population are blond.

-After the fall of Rome, Southern arrivals into Italy were Arabs in Sicily, and Byzantines (Greeks). Arabs stayed about one century in Sicily, but their numbers are still debated. Arabs and (later) Byzantines were expelled, or killed, many left (especially Arabs refusing to converting to Christianity) but some remained.

-There were intermarriages with Germanic people.

Conclusion :

The Ancient Romans looked more or less like in the pictures above with a stereotypical Mediterranean complexion (More tanned than Scandinavians, dark eyes/hair).
 
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Moorish invasions did nothing to fuck up the gene pool? Sicilians and southern Italians haven’t been considered “white” since very very recently.
from the 1880s to mid-1920 s, when Southern Italian immigration was the largest and least desired immigrants to flow into the country, they did indeed experience many of the harsh and racial laws defined by the Jim Crow codes of the Southern States. In Italians in that era made up over 40% of the “white “ lynching population and the largest lynching in American history happened in New Orleans when 11 Italians were hunged by a mob of over 4000 Anglo Saxon Southern Gentry.
WE
 
I’m not saying romans were germanics or anglos or nords anything, but they’re lombards for sure. No way after so much invasion are the southern Italians and especially Sicilians the descendants of romans
 
I’m not saying romans were germanics or anglos or nords anything, but they’re lombards for sure. No way after so much invasion are the southern Italians and especially Sicilians the descendants of romans

Lombards were a Germanic tribe that's where the name 'Lombardy' comes from, they weren't latin people.

But anyways it's really simple actually: people who lived in Sicily and Sardinia looked like modern Sicilians and Sardinians people who lived in Rome and modern Lombardy looked like modern Romans and Lombards.

Of course i'm not saying this is 100% how it was and that there were no genetic changes but generally speaking that's how it is.
 
Lombards were a Germanic tribe that's where the name 'Lombardy' comes from, they weren't latin people.

But anyways it's really simple actually: people who lived in Sicily and Sardinia looked like modern Sicilians and Sardinians people who lived in Rome and modern Lombardy looked like modern Romans and Lombards.

Of course i'm not saying this is 100% how it was and that there were no genetic changes but generally speaking that's how it is.
26% of Calabria has R1b haplogroup (white). Tuscany and Lombardy has 80%. There was a shift of races around. Your people simply change after thousands of years of invasion and rape.
 
26% of Calabria has R1b haplogroup (white). Tuscany and Lombardy has 80%. There was a shift of races around. Your people simply change after thousands of years of invasion and rape.

R1b haplogroup is mostly prob from earlier populations, i was thinking of different haplogroup when i mentioned Germanic rapes.

But then that reinforces my point even more: People on Italian peninsula were always genetically diverse from each other.
 
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R1b haplogroup is mostly prob from earlier populations, i was thinking of different haplogroup when i mentioned Germanic rapes.

But then that reinforces my point even more: People on Italian peninsula were always genetically diverse from each other.
Yeah but most of central and north Italy has the haplogroup, while the south doesn’t.
 
Barbarian and later Muslim invasions moved a lot of the romans descendants upwards into the north (Lombardy) which is why a lot of the Renaissance was centered in the north. Those people gradually moved out as well. Same with Greece.
One of my favorite parts of this forum is people asking serious question and you coming in and making a joke of yourself by answering seriously and looking like a joke:feelskek:
 
Yeah but most of central and north Italy has the haplogroup, while the south doesn’t.

Central Italy has different genetical makeup if i remember correctly, i think it depends if you go from West to East.

But anyways that's beside the point: What i'm saying is South Italians were always swarthy looking, it's not soley because of Arabs.
 
They started to eat poopoo cheese
 
Mussolini tried to bring it back but he failed.

Also Italy was late to the colonial game so that too made a difference.
 
Central Italy has different genetical makeup if i remember correctly, i think it depends if you go from West to East.

But anyways that's beside the point: What i'm saying is South Italians were always swarthy looking, it's not soley because of Arabs.
But the moors did have a footprint there no? I mean I don’t think they’re not swarthy looking but a lot of that is because of the migrations. I mean wasn’t Sicily literally used as a slave port? That must’ve caused atleast a little bit of genetic diversification
One of my favorite parts of this forum is people asking serious question and you coming in and making a joke of yourself by answering seriously and looking like a joke:feelskek:
Ok, would you like to add anything meaningful to the discussion or act like a baby and disrupt it because you’re not getting your attentive needs?
 
But the moors did have a footprint there no? I mean I don’t think they’re not swarthy looking but a lot of that is because of the migrations. I mean wasn’t Sicily literally used as a slave port? That must’ve caused atleast a little bit of genetic diversification

Actually i thought the same thing before but after reading few books about it that doesn't seem to be the case.

Multiple DNA studies confirmed that genetic variation in Italy is clinal, going from the Eastern to the Western Mediterranean, with the Sardinians being the exception as genetic outliers in Italy and Europe that results from their predominantly Neolithic, Pre-Indo-European and non-Italic Nuragic ancestry. Reflecting the history of Europe and the broader Mediterranean basin, the Italian populations have been found to be made up mostly of the same ancestral components, albeit in different proportions, related to the Mesolithic, Neolithic and Bronze Age settlements of Europe.

Source:https://www.nature.com/articles/s41...terranean,refuge for early Neolithic ancestry.


There is a minor North African Admixture in Sicily but it's like comparing Germans with Austrians in a way, Sardinians and North Africans already had a genetic link in the antiquity, Carthage possessed both Sardinia and Sicily for quite a while so that also left its trail.
 
Italy shouldn't be a country and it wasn't until recently.
It should be a confederation of states, each with its own president
The north is more industrious and high gdp
the south the economy is mainly underground and the mafia is too embeded in the cutlrual fabric of southern italians to be eradicated.

South italy has nice architecture and beautiful scenary in general. Good food too
I hope to travel there.
 
But the moors did have a footprint there no? I mean I don’t think they’re not swarthy looking but a lot of that is because of the migrations. I mean wasn’t Sicily literally used as a slave port? That must’ve caused atleast a little bit of genetic diversification

Ok, would you like to add anything meaningful to the discussion or act like a baby and disrupt it because you’re not getting your attentive needs?
High IQ stuff right here :lul:
 
Actually i thought the same thing before but after reading few books about it that doesn't seem to be the case.

Multiple DNA studies confirmed that genetic variation in Italy is clinal, going from the Eastern to the Western Mediterranean, with the Sardinians being the exception as genetic outliers in Italy and Europe that results from their predominantly Neolithic, Pre-Indo-European and non-Italic Nuragic ancestry. Reflecting the history of Europe and the broader Mediterranean basin, the Italian populations have been found to be made up mostly of the same ancestral components, albeit in different proportions, related to the Mesolithic, Neolithic and Bronze Age settlements of Europe.

Source:https://www.nature.com/articles/s41588-018-0215-8#:~:text=The population of the Mediterranean,refuge for early Neolithic ancestry.


There is a minor North African Admixture in Sicily but it's like comparing Germans with Austrians in a way, Sardinians and North Africans already had a genetic link in the antiquity, Carthage possessed both Sardinia and Sicily for quite a while so that also left its trail.
So what would you say the average % of southern Italians and Sicilians (probably a very different percentage) have of non natural (moor North Africa etc) genes? Maybe make a comparison like modern American WASPs and native Americans?

High IQ stuff right here :lul:
I mean what’s your thoughts on the subject? Looking at it I got my mind changed because I thought it was way way more.

Or are you just going to continue to throw a temper tantrum and be disruptive?
 
So what would you say the average % of southern Italians and Sicilians (probably a very different percentage) have of non natural (moor North Africa etc) genes? Maybe make a comparison like modern American WASPs and native Americans?

Overall? i don't know anything about Native Americans to make any comparisons so i'll just post the percentages.

It's hard to say exactly but probably around 2% to 4% overall.(could depend on individuals)

'A 2011 study by Moorjani et al. found that many southern Europeans have inherited 1–3% Sub-Saharan ancestry, although the percentages were lower (0.2–2.1%) when reanalyzed with the 'STRUCTURE' statistical model. An average admixture date of around 55 generations/1100 years ago was also calculated, "consistent with North African gene flow at the end of the Roman Empire and subsequent Arab migrations"'

Source:https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1001373

It's higher in Sicilians yea than any other Italian group.
 
Overall? i don't know anything about Native Americans to make any comparisons so i'll just post the percentages.

It's hard to say exactly but probably around 2% to 4% overall.(could depend on individuals)

'A 2011 study by Moorjani et al. found that many southern Europeans have inherited 1–3% Sub-Saharan ancestry, although the percentages were lower (0.2–2.1%) when reanalyzed with the 'STRUCTURE' statistical model. An average admixture date of around 55 generations/1100 years ago was also calculated, "consistent with North African gene flow at the end of the Roman Empire and subsequent Arab migrations"'

Source:https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1001373

It's higher in Sicilians yea than any other Italian group.
Well that’s about sub saharans and not Arabs, but I’ll take your word for it and say it’s probs 2-6%. Why then is there such a distinction between southern Italians and Tuscans and the north? Was there preconceived notions of “they’re different so let’s not mix” or were the Italians all roughly the same looking until an event happened? It just wouldn’t make sense for them to be so different but so close and have it just be natural.
 
This is an incel moment.

You may be wondering what an "incel moment" is, well here it is, defined.

-When confronted with interracial relationships, this triggers a primal urge in the incel. Half enraged, half aroused he is reminded by his own loneliness and the high desire to be in a meaningful relationship with a women. Protip, he never will

-When confronted by criticism of race and gender dynamics, wojacks, ad-homs will follow. The incel isn't educated so his immediate reaction is to rage and expose his white fragility

-Though he posts photos and memes about how he hates women, all he wants is to be with a women. The problem is, he's not attractive and never will be. Women avoid him like a plague so he attacks anonymously on the internet (notice how he's a complete coward).

-His response when he has no argument is typical "dilate", "nigger", "cope" "seethe" etc. You know when they post this, you've won and witnessed an incel moment.

-Deep down, they're extremely fragile and insecure. They've never really interacted with people outside of their own family so they've never developed proper intellectual and emotional relationships.

-Typically lean right, MAGA despite not really knowing anything about policy, history or society in general. They're obsessed with SJW's, women, minorities even though they don't know any. Easily brainwashed and indoctrinated. Youtubers like PJW, Milo & Steven Crowder have them changing their worldviews every video they post. They're unable to form coherent arguments but are overly emotional when it comes to issues. Notice phrases like "Political correction is destroying our media!" despite not giving any examples on set topics.

That's it folks, a quick guide to spot incel moments and incel rage. Pass it along.
 
Well that’s about sub saharans and not Arabs, but I’ll take your word for it and say it’s probs 2-6%. Why then is there such a distinction between southern Italians and Tuscans and the north? Was there preconceived notions of “they’re different so let’s not mix” or were the Italians all roughly the same looking until an event happened? It just wouldn’t make sense for them to be so different but so close and have it just be natural.

Moors themselves had Sub-Saharan admixture so it add ups.

I mean Italy is a pretty big country and more so unlike let's say Northern Germany and Eastern European plain it's mostly hilly and mountainous, in ancient times most people lived either in cities or in very remote villages it's not surprise that they would've remained isolated.

As for distinction well as with everything in History you can't say 100% that's the way it was even with direct evidence, but usually one can make a educated guess. and in this case we can safely say that Italians did in fact look different from each other back in Roman times and earlier.(i already linked pompei mosaics but check it out if you haven't) it's just that the way you and i perceive race and ethnicity wasn't the same as Romans and other ancient people perceived it, from a purely historical standpoint that's all i can say with my limited knowledge on Rome.
Well that’s about sub saharans and not Arabs, but I’ll take your word for it and say it’s probs 2-6%. Why then is there such a distinction between southern Italians and Tuscans and the north? Was there preconceived notions of “they’re different so let’s not mix” or were the Italians all roughly the same looking until an event happened? It just wouldn’t make sense for them to be so different but so close and have it just be natural.

Oh yea i forgot to add.

Greeks had extensive colonies in Southern Italy for centuries, that also constituted to their gene pool.
 
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Moors themselves had Sub-Saharan admixture so it add ups
Yeah but moors didn’t have much. Some were black but it wasn’t all dark as coal jungle inhabitants running around.
I mean Italy is a pretty big country and more so unlike let's say Northern Germany and Eastern European plain it's mostly hilly and mountainous, in ancient times most people lived either in cities or in very remote villages it's not surprise that they would've remained isolated.
Yeah but isolated for thousands of years seems a bit unrealistic, and the line isn’t that big.
As for distinction well as with everything in History you can't say 100% that's the way it was even with direct evidence, but usually one can make a educated guess. and in this case we can safely say that Italians did in fact look different from each other back in Roman times and earlier.(i already linked pompei mosaics but check it out if you haven't) it's just that the way you and i perceive race and ethnicity wasn't the same as Romans and other ancient people perceived it, from a purely historical standpoint that's all i can say with my limited knowledge on Rome.


Oh yea i forgot to add.

Greeks had extensive colonies in Southern Italy for centuries, that also constituted to their gene pool.
Yeah Greeks had a shit ton of southern Italy so maybe. Again just seems unrealistic how in 2020 Tuscans and napoli are so different
 
Yeah but moors didn’t have much. Some were black but it wasn’t all dark as coal jungle inhabitants running around.

That's a fair point.

But if you want my opinion (more of a educated guess really) i reckon Since Southern Italians were already Med looking in the first place further mixing with North African Arabs who indeed had varying amounts of Black dna made Sicilians and Sardinias more swarthy looking.

Yeah but moors didn’t have much. Some were black but it wasn’t all dark as coal jungle inhabitants running around.

Well perhaps 'isolated' wasn't a correct word but they had their own communities.
Yeah Greeks had a shit ton of southern Italy so maybe. Again just seems unrealistic how in 2020 Tuscans and napoli are so different

It's not at all unrealistic ngl, if they looked different then they would look different now.

But i'll go more in depth about this since you mentioned Tuscans.

You see The DNA of Tuscans from Siena south to northern Lazio is different from the rest of Italians because of Etruscans and the subsequent Gauls who lived further North and were in time subjugated by Romans, What is mysterious is how much the DNA of peninsular Italy has remained constant despite the importation of huge numbers of slaves from 200 BC to 200 AD. Many of whom were actually natives.

Also one interesting thing i found with Regards to Roman and Greek connection.

The Romans and Trojans were the same race as Greeks, but the Trojans were influenced by Hurrian culture, and the Romans were influenced by Etruscan culture. The Trojan's patron god Apollo was actually the Hurrian god Aplu, and the Mycenaean's patron god was Posedion, who was the prime mover at the time of the Trojan war.

The haplogroup J2a (Y-DNA) had a strong presence in the Roman, Greek, and Phonetician (Canaanite) populations, and the spread of J2a through Europe and the Mediterranean has been contributed to the Roman Empire.

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_J2_Y-DNA.shtml#J2a_Mediterranean
 
med sea used to be center of world since antiquity and after discover of america it lost it's importance, cause there new ways to trade ?

That's what I heard. Access to the Atlantic and the New World became more significant from the 16th century onwards while Italy was stuck in the Mediterranean.
 
That's what I heard. Access to the Atlantic and the New World became more significant from the 16th century onwards while Italy was stuck in the Mediterranean.

It all ties back to Ottomans blocking Europeans from the spice trade.

That was one of the contributing reasons why Europeans decided to look for other routes to India. (which is why Columbus made that voyage in the first place)
 
Mussolini impressed by my knowledge of Rome.

Indeed Inceldom has its advantages.
Mussolini tried to bring it back but he failed

WW2 was not about stopping 'genocide' (other european nations did 'genocides' in their colonies and UK, specifically, perfected the genocidal practice by industrializing it, creating concentration camps in Africa) but to stop a rising New World Order (at the time) lead the by the Axis nations.
Hitler attempted to do in Europe what USA, UK, France, etc did a century before in Africa, America and Asia.


The British empire has killed more people than Nazi germany, but apparently they are the “good guys”
 
Romans were never important, they just stole a bunch of tech and philosophy from the Lechina Empire (Ancient Poles) and now they're larping
Lechia
 
Romans were never important, they just stole a bunch of tech and philosophy from the Lechina Empire (Ancient Poles) and now they're larping
View attachment 382017
:feelskek:
WW2 was not about stopping 'genocide' (other european nations did 'genocides' in their colonies and UK, specifically, perfected the genocidal practice by industrializing it, creating concentration camps in Africa) but to stop a rising New World Order (at the time) lead the by the Axis nations.
Hitler attempted to do in Europe what USA, UK, France, etc did a century before in Africa, America and Asia.


The British empire has killed more people than Nazi germany, but apparently they are the “good guys”
they are no good and bad guys in first place
 
Mirin superior Polish mud huts.

England+germany+france+spain+and+portugal+before+the+roman+empire+_d1c594b563abbdf248b05da157256132.jpg


How can Rome compete?

pantheon.aspx
gigacope, all supposed Roman historical sites are post-WW2 forgeries

we wuz space travelers and shit kurwa
Ivanov art 1
 
Mirin superior Polish mud huts.

England+germany+france+spain+and+portugal+before+the+roman+empire+_d1c594b563abbdf248b05da157256132.jpg


How can Rome compete?

pantheon.aspx
btw it's possible current situation of poland or slavs was done by it's shitty geographic situation ?
i know that poland is shithole and only reason any foreigner would stamp their feet is cause polish foids are laughable easy, but there was time when we were regional superpower
and for location we are between russia and germany without any natural, geographical defences
 
btw it's possible current situation of poland or slavs was done by it's shitty geographic situation ?
i know that poland is shithole and only reason any foreigner would stamp their feet is cause polish foids are laughable easy, but there was time when we were regional superpower
and for location we are between russia and germany without any natural, geographical defences
Yea that's a possiblity.

All aspects of life were determined by geography.
 

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