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On Corruption : Capitalism, Efficiency and the collapse of Socialism (case in point : Soviet Union)

Caesercel

Caesercel

mentally crippled by lonely teen years
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(tldr in the replies)

When we think of corruption the usual image that comes to mind is that of a politician, beaureacrat or banker who misuse their position of power for personal gains. And we've all heard the narrative of corrupt and bloated beareaucratic elite that shall inevitably plague all Socialist experiments. Which inevitably leads to a bad economy and eventual systematic collapse. A problem that is supposedly solved by Capitalism, privatisation and the free market since it weeds out all elements of inefficiency and corruption in it's never ending pursuit of quarterly profits.

Which is true. On a surface level Capitalism does seemingly reduce structural corruption. Even when we talk about corruption under Capitalism, it's the Capitalists corrupting the Government. But the Capitalist business itself is free from corruption. But I think there is a deeper point to be made here.

The word "Corruption" implies that there is an ideal, a perfect state of how things should be. A politician should ideally serve the best interests of the people, a bereaucrat should ideally do his duty with honesty. Therefore for corruption to exist, an ideal must first exist that could be corrupted. A Government is fundamentally built on ideals and hence it's corruptible.

Capitalism, on the other hand does not have any ideals other than chasing the bottom line. Everything is allowed towards that goal within legal bounds (and even those bounds are set by the idealistic and hence corruptible government, not the Capitalist system itself). Hence, Capitalism does not solve the problem of corruption by restoring the ideal. It solves the problem by removing the ideal altogether.

This is how we end up with the situation where a bereaucrat using his position to make money is corrupt, but a company Vice President in a similar position making millions in legal salary, usually off of the back of grunt workers is A-ok.

Capitalism cannot be corrupted because the corruption/exploitation has itself been legalised. They often blame the corrupt beareaucratic elite for causing the economic conditions that lead to the collapse of Soviet Union. But they omit the part where the same elites became the all powerful oligarchal class in the post Soviet Russia. So if Soviet Union was corrupt then capitalism was not a solution to that corruption. It was the end point, when corruption has become all encompassing enough to be systematically legalised in what we call Capitalism and private ownership of nation's resources

It was not the incompetence of the elites that brought down the Soviet Union. It was their greed. And that greed reached its conclusion in subsequent Capitalist Oligarchy.
 
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Tldr;
>Socialism is corruptible because it's built on ideals that could be corrupted.
>Capitalism has less corruption not because the ideal is maintained but because the need to maintain the ideal itself is removed. It's incorruptible because it has no ideals left to be corrupted.
>The corruption of Soviet elites reached it's highest point in the Oligarchies of post Soviet Russia
>Capitalism is legalised corruption. It is the end state of corruption and greed that may plague Socialism. Not it's solution.
 
Last edited:
(tldr in the replies)

When we think of corruption the usual image that comes to mind is that of a politician, beaureacrat or banker who misuse their position of power for personal gains. And we've all heard the narrative of corrupt and bloated beareaucratic elite that shall inevitably plague all Socialist experiments. Which inevitably leads to a bad economy and eventual systematic collapse. A problem that is supposedly solved by Capitalism, privatisation and the free market since it weeds out all elements of inefficiency and corruption in it's never ending pursuit of quarterly profits.

Which is true. On a surface level Capitalism does seemingly reduce structural corruption. Even when we talk about corruption under Capitalism, it's the Capitalists corrupting the Government. But the Capitalist business itself is free from corruption. But I think there is a deeper point to be made here.

The word "Corruption" implies that there is an ideal, a perfect state of how things should be. A politician should ideally serve the best interests of the people, a bereaucrat should ideally do his duty with honesty. Therefore for corruption to exist, an ideal must first exist that could be corrupted. A Government is fundamentally built on ideals and hence it's corruptible.

Capitalism, on the other hand does not have any ideals other than chasing the bottom line. Everything is allowed towards that goal within legal bounds (and even those bounds are set by the idealistic and hence corruptible government, not the Capitalist system itself). Hence, Capitalism does not solve the problem of corruption by restoring the ideal. It solves the problem by removing the ideal altogether.

This is how we end up with the situation where a bereaucrat using his position to make money is corrupt, but a company Vice President in a similar position making millions in legal salary, usually off of the back of grunt workers is A-ok.

Capitalism cannot be corrupted because the corruption/exploitation has itself been legalised. They often blame the corrupt beareaucratic elite for causing the economic conditions that lead to the collapse of Soviet Union. But they omit the part where the same elites became the all powerful oligarchal class in the post Soviet Russia. So if Soviet Union was corrupt then capitalism was not a solution to that corruption. It was the end point, when corruption has become all encompassing enough to be systematically legalised in what we call Capitalism and private ownership of nation's resources

It was not the incompetence of the elites that brought down the Soviet Union. It was their greed. And that greed reached its conclusion in subsequent Capitalist Oligarchy.
It's just that the USSR elite became morally corrupt after they kicked Khrushchev out for not allowing them to live a luxurious lifestyle and being quite impulsive and unpredictable. Communism is not based on honor and rules, it's not like Bushido. Communism fosters maximum nihilism, like the extreme form of capitalism, which is Ayn Rand Libertarianism.
All these people learned the dogmas of communism by heart and pretended to believe in it, but in their hearts they probably thought it was stupid shit. Then, in the 1990s, all the ardent communists rushed to privatize factories and start businesses in every field to be the first to enter the market.
This is because communism corrupts the soul. For communists, there are only their own interests. Lenin took money from the Germans and wanted his country to be defeated. He led Russia out of World War I, causing Russia to lose 3 million soldiers killed and wounded, but not receive the recognition it deserved as a member of the Entente. This was solely due to Lenin's pride and desire for power. There is no more dangerous capitalist than someone who previously held communist views.
 
Tldr;
>Socialism is corruptible because it's built on ideals that could be corrupted.
>Capitalism has less corruption not because the ideal is maintained but because the need to maintain the ideal itself is removed. It's incorruptible because it has no ideals left to be corrupted.
>The corruption of Soviet elites reached it's highest point in the Oligarchies of post Soviet Russia
>Capitalism is legalised corruption. It is the end state of corruption and greed that may plague Socialism. Not it's solution.
Communism is a planned economy, so the government decides how much to produce for the market. Therefore, there are more people who want to buy a product than there are products available. In a communist economy, you need social connections with the store manager to get them to hold back some cheese and sausage from the shelves so that they can sell it to you without you having to wait in line for hours. That's why people in the USSR used to give bribes to grocery store employees so that they could hide some of the goods, and then they could buy them secretly without waiting in line. The same was true for apartments and cars.
 
You need to start giving shorter cliffs i cant read that much but thank you for your efforts anyway
 
You need to start giving shorter cliffs i cant read that much but thank you for your efforts anyway
It's right here

Tldr;
>Socialism is corruptible because it's built on ideals that could be corrupted.
>Capitalism has less corruption not because the ideal is maintained but because the need to maintain the ideal itself is removed. It's incorruptible because it has no ideals left to be corrupted.
>The corruption of Soviet elites reached it's highest point in the Oligarchies of post Soviet Russia
>Capitalism is legalised corruption. It is the end state of corruption and greed that may plague Socialism. Not it's solution.
 

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