Welcome to Incels.is - Involuntary Celibate Forum

Welcome! This is a forum for involuntary celibates: people who lack a significant other. Are you lonely and wish you had someone in your life? You're not alone! Join our forum and talk to people just like you.

Neijuan: omnipresent hyper-competitiveness. (A must read post)

Ryo_Hazuki

Ryo_Hazuki

Original recipe mod from the Serge regime.
★★★★★
Joined
Nov 7, 2017
Posts
5,638
Recently I discovered a Chinese word that is laser accurate in it's description of a phenomenon/issue I've observed for a long time, that only seems to be getting worse and worse. "内卷" or "neijuan". Ignore the literal translation of the word, I won't bore you with the etymology of the word, but when Chinese use it these days, they're talking about the perpetual state of hyper-competitiveness in every facet of life, including basic necessities. Increased effort, increased competition, but the rewards are no better. Imagine a race where everyone is running faster and faster, yet the finish line isn't getting any closer. People are becoming turbo tryhards not even to get ahead, but simply to avoid falling behind. I know there's english words/phrases like "rat race" and "hustle culture" but none of them quite fit the bill like "neijuan". To make a sports analogy, it's like weight cutting in combat sports. Every fighter who fights at "145lbs" walks around 180lbs or more. Fighters will starve and dehydrate themselves before a weigh-in because everyone wants to fight the smallest opponents they possibly can. It's extremely unhealthy, and it's caused serious medical problems and even some deaths, and it doesn't even make the sport any better, yet everyone (aside from heavyweights) HAS to do it because everyone else is and if you don't, you'll lose every fight very quickly.

A few weeks ago, I remember having a conversation with a (now former) coworker, keep in mind I work in fast food. He said that he not only lied on his resume to get the job, but he also did research online and memorized a bunch of factoids and terminology related to fast food, some of which seems to be extremely esoteric, anachronistic, or shit only managers know about, because I never heard a lot of the terms he said. I remember when he first got hired he used those terms a bunch and we were all confused. He said he used those terms in his old (fictional) job. He ended up getting another job lined up, so I guess that's why he felt safe admitting this all to me. Now I know lying on resumes is nothing new, and people lie a lot in general, but this guy went through all this fucking trouble to get and keep a minimum wage part time job. Crazy thing is, he probably wouldn't have gotten the job if he didn't lie on his resume. I mentioned this before but people apply at my job everyday. We don't hire 90+ percent of the people who apply. I remember the first fast food job I got. I showed up wearing ghetto ass street clothes, they interviewed me on the spot, and hired me. Now this job requires applicants to do two interviews, and we don't even interview half the people who apply. With every job now, including fast food, you send them your resume, wait, get your first interview scheduled, then if you're one of the lucky ones, you'll move onto the second interview, then finally get hired (again, if you're lucky). I'm burnt out on working in fast food (and I REALLY hate one of the managers) and I've been applying for other jobs, that are equally low pay or very slightly higher, and I've had no luck. I remember a while back I was at an interview for a dish washing job, there were a bunch of people waiting to be interviewed before/after me, and when the lady interviewed me, she flipped through a thick stack of resumes trying to find mine. Yet boomers say there's a "labor shortage", just lol.

Also related to the job market (and neijuan) is what's happened with education. Today more young people have degrees than at any point in history. Having a higher educated population sounds good on paper, and in a hypothetical post-capitalist utopia it would be great, but in practice it's been disastrous for everyone except for employers. First, due to increased demand, tuition skyrocketed. Now so many graduates have a massive student loan debt. But now that more people have a degree, the value of having a bachelor's degree has tanked. It used to be that having a 4 year degree was pretty much a guaranteed ticket to the middle class (unless you picked a useless major) but that hasn't been the case for a very long time now. And now a lot of jobs that didn't require a degree 20 years ago, now require one. A 4 year degree is the new high school diploma, and no degree is the new registered sex offender. So it's a catch-22 if you're a young person deciding if you should go to college or not. Either you go to college, get saddled with a huge amount of student loan debt, and MAYBE eventually get into the middle class if you're lucky, or don't go to college and accept you'll be trapped at the bottom of the economic ladder for your entire life. And before anyone goes full boomer and suggests "MUH TRAAAADES!" the trades have become just as oversaturated as almost every other field. A lot of young impressionable people took this boomer advice to heart, trade schools increased their fees and many have a long wait list, and many can't find a job after getting certified. One of my coworkers is an electrician who owns his own business, I actually looked it up to see if he was bullshitting me and he's telling the truth. He said it would pay well and he wouldn't have to work this job if he could get enough clients but he can't because there's too much competition. It's feast or famine, like so many other things in life.

The dating market is another example of something impacted by neijuan. We all know about juggernaut law. We've all seen the dating website/app experiments where they use pictures of a morbidly obese woman, or a granny, and it still gets lots of likes/messages, some of which are from HTNs and even chadlites. Ironically the mentality of the guys chasing these women is "there will be less competition" only to create even more of the competition they tried to avoid. You simply can't avoid the fierce competition, you can't avoid neijuan. We see it with lookmaxxing too. Looksmaxxing is pretty mainstream with zoomers. My zoomer coworkers have talked about it numerous times despite the fact that they hate incels and use the word as a catch-all insult for anyone they don't like. They're all gymmaxxing too. What was originally crated by incels as a means of escaping sub5dom/inceldom, is now a tool for chads/chadlites to mog even harder.

The most pathetic example of neijuan is probably online gaming. EVERY game, no matter how "casual" it appears at surface level, is full of turbo tryhards. Every game is sweaty as fuck. Even in non-ranked games people are playing like there's a fucking cash prize on the line. There are simply no more "casual" multiplayer games, and there are certainly no casual PVP games anymore. Too many zoomers are "locked-in" playing the game for hours and hours everyday. Everyone is farming for exp, clips, or stream views thinking they'll be the next big streamer. Everyone is doing a bunch of research on what the "meta" is, memorizing maps, frame data, matchups etc. What's supposed to be escapism has turned into an autistic tryhard-fest that resembles a second job (that you don't get paid for) rather than a fun hobby. It's gotten so bad that a lot of gamers have just quit playing online games altogether and just play single player games. That includes me. After a long day of stressful work and getting shouted at by a neurotic manager, the last thing I want to do is get spawn killed repeatedly and 1 shot across the map in an FPS, zerg rushed in an RTS, or juggled with a long ass combo that goes 65 percent damage. That's just an exercise in masochism.

What annoys me is there's a lot of (almost always male) "influencers" who advocate for even HIGHER levels of neijuan. WORK 16 HOURS A DAY! WAKE UP AT 4AM. QUIT ALL HOBBIES. MONK MODE. YOUR LIFE SHOULD BE JUST WORK AND GYM! LIFE AS A MAN IS SUPPOSED TO BE A NONSTOP STRUGGLE, YOUR CORTISOL SHOULD ALWAYS BE MAXXED, BE A STOOOOOOOOOOOOOOIC SLAVE. Of course a lot of the "influencers" advocating for this live a life of hedonism, but you're supposed to ignore that. A lot of zoomers are internalizing this messaging it seems. I've noticed zoomers, ESPECIALLY male zoomers, tend to have a hyper-competitive mindset about everything. I could give plenty more examples of neijuan, but I think you guys get the point now and this post is TL;DR already and will no doubt be replied to with "DNR". And of course anytime anyone even alludes to this issue, they're bombarded with "SKILL ISSUE SKILL ISSUE, GIT GUD!".

None of this is to say that hyper-competitiveness is inherently bad. It's needed for innovation. But it's not something that should be everywhere all the time. In a world where every man is trying to be number 1, the least capable men suffer the most. I think part of the issue is that society has become hyper-introverted and a lot of time that would have been spent socializing decades ago is now invested in "grinding". Also less men are in relationships and less are getting married and having children, so the energy that would have been put into relationships and raising kids goes to tryharding instead. Society has also become increasingly low trust, which makes people even more inclined to look at each other as competitors. I don't see any realistic solutions coming anytime soon. Hopefully one day we'll have ASI and AI will automate everything and we'll be able to get UBI and have AI gfs. But until then, neijuan, perpetual and ubiquitous hyper-competitiveness, will remain inescapable.
 
Read every word. Very insightful post and a very good analysis of this phenomenon, including parts of it I ouldn't have thought about (for example the gaming one, I've mostly encountered this phenomenon in the impossible-to-find-a-job way):yes:.
 
I hate hyper competitive societies
 
Hyper-competitiveness IS bad. No two ways about it. It leads to immoral behaviors. All the innovators succeed because of the freedom they are afforded. Hyper competitiveness, on the other hand, locks you into a rigid framework.
 
Read it all (which is not easy with my failing eyesight lol)

It's a good way to put it. Society right now is a race to the bottom. It takes more and more work every year just to wind up with the same result, whether financial, career, or relational. Grind culture was ingrained in me mentally back in my school days, I wanted to grademog my peers just to get up high on a list. At this point in my life, I'm severely burned out from everything. I'm dropping out from as much competitive shit as I reasonably can. I still work, but with enough savings, I'm working on an exit plan from that too.

It won't get better, but all the normies can tell us is WORK HARDER BRO!!!!!

Like the great philosopher Jeremy Meeks said, "keep hustlin, keep grindin, shoot for your dreams"
 
high iq post. what seems to be the name of some player from the second division of chilean football league actually has a deep meaning. neijuan.

I see this tryhardism in everything, the modern internet is made to show how inferior we are in relation to everything.

Everything I try to do is instantly shown in my face by thousands who do it better, ultra mog, especially by japs and chinks, these are natural born try harders, gaming, art, design, coding, AI, everything, while westerns are supposedly to mog these in looks, these can and will mog in skills.

Brutality. The one who will suffer?! The incel, ofc.
 
How do you pronounce neijuan?

Knee Juan?
 
Holy shit this was too long.

But yeah, Chinese are the most hard working. They work hard for nothing, it seems. Their women would still perfer a white hobo over a Chinese banker. :feelskek: :feelskek:
 
Recently I discovered a Chinese word that is laser accurate in it's description of a phenomenon/issue I've observed for a long time, that only seems to be getting worse and worse. "内卷" or "neijuan". Ignore the literal translation of the word, I won't bore you with the etymology of the word, but when Chinese use it these days, they're talking about the perpetual state of hyper-competitiveness in every facet of life, including basic necessities. Increased effort, increased competition, but the rewards are no better. Imagine a race where everyone is running faster and faster, yet the finish line isn't getting any closer. People are becoming turbo tryhards not even to get ahead, but simply to avoid falling behind. I know there's english words/phrases like "rat race" and "hustle culture" but none of them quite fit the bill like "neijuan". To make a sports analogy, it's like weight cutting in combat sports. Every fighter who fights at "145lbs" walks around 180lbs or more. Fighters will starve and dehydrate themselves before a weigh-in because everyone wants to fight the smallest opponents they possibly can. It's extremely unhealthy, and it's caused serious medical problems and even some deaths, and it doesn't even make the sport any better, yet everyone (aside from heavyweights) HAS to do it because everyone else is and if you don't, you'll lose every fight very quickly.

A few weeks ago, I remember having a conversation with a (now former) coworker, keep in mind I work in fast food. He said that he not only lied on his resume to get the job, but he also did research online and memorized a bunch of factoids and terminology related to fast food, some of which seems to be extremely esoteric, anachronistic, or shit only managers know about, because I never heard a lot of the terms he said. I remember when he first got hired he used those terms a bunch and we were all confused. He said he used those terms in his old (fictional) job. He ended up getting another job lined up, so I guess that's why he felt safe admitting this all to me. Now I know lying on resumes is nothing new, and people lie a lot in general, but this guy went through all this fucking trouble to get and keep a minimum wage part time job. Crazy thing is, he probably wouldn't have gotten the job if he didn't lie on his resume. I mentioned this before but people apply at my job everyday. We don't hire 90+ percent of the people who apply. I remember the first fast food job I got. I showed up wearing ghetto ass street clothes, they interviewed me on the spot, and hired me. Now this job requires applicants to do two interviews, and we don't even interview half the people who apply. With every job now, including fast food, you send them your resume, wait, get your first interview scheduled, then if you're one of the lucky ones, you'll move onto the second interview, then finally get hired (again, if you're lucky). I'm burnt out on working in fast food (and I REALLY hate one of the managers) and I've been applying for other jobs, that are equally low pay or very slightly higher, and I've had no luck. I remember a while back I was at an interview for a dish washing job, there were a bunch of people waiting to be interviewed before/after me, and when the lady interviewed me, she flipped through a thick stack of resumes trying to find mine. Yet boomers say there's a "labor shortage", just lol.

Also related to the job market (and neijuan) is what's happened with education. Today more young people have degrees than at any point in history. Having a higher educated population sounds good on paper, and in a hypothetical post-capitalist utopia it would be great, but in practice it's been disastrous for everyone except for employers. First, due to increased demand, tuition skyrocketed. Now so many graduates have a massive student loan debt. But now that more people have a degree, the value of having a bachelor's degree has tanked. It used to be that having a 4 year degree was pretty much a guaranteed ticket to the middle class (unless you picked a useless major) but that hasn't been the case for a very long time now. And now a lot of jobs that didn't require a degree 20 years ago, now require one. A 4 year degree is the new high school diploma, and no degree is the new registered sex offender. So it's a catch-22 if you're a young person deciding if you should go to college or not. Either you go to college, get saddled with a huge amount of student loan debt, and MAYBE eventually get into the middle class if you're lucky, or don't go to college and accept you'll be trapped at the bottom of the economic ladder for your entire life. And before anyone goes full boomer and suggests "MUH TRAAAADES!" the trades have become just as oversaturated as almost every other field. A lot of young impressionable people took this boomer advice to heart, trade schools increased their fees and many have a long wait list, and many can't find a job after getting certified. One of my coworkers is an electrician who owns his own business, I actually looked it up to see if he was bullshitting me and he's telling the truth. He said it would pay well and he wouldn't have to work this job if he could get enough clients but he can't because there's too much competition. It's feast or famine, like so many other things in life.

The dating market is another example of something impacted by neijuan. We all know about juggernaut law. We've all seen the dating website/app experiments where they use pictures of a morbidly obese woman, or a granny, and it still gets lots of likes/messages, some of which are from HTNs and even chadlites. Ironically the mentality of the guys chasing these women is "there will be less competition" only to create even more of the competition they tried to avoid. You simply can't avoid the fierce competition, you can't avoid neijuan. We see it with lookmaxxing too. Looksmaxxing is pretty mainstream with zoomers. My zoomer coworkers have talked about it numerous times despite the fact that they hate incels and use the word as a catch-all insult for anyone they don't like. They're all gymmaxxing too. What was originally crated by incels as a means of escaping sub5dom/inceldom, is now a tool for chads/chadlites to mog even harder.

The most pathetic example of neijuan is probably online gaming. EVERY game, no matter how "casual" it appears at surface level, is full of turbo tryhards. Every game is sweaty as fuck. Even in non-ranked games people are playing like there's a fucking cash prize on the line. There are simply no more "casual" multiplayer games, and there are certainly no casual PVP games anymore. Too many zoomers are "locked-in" playing the game for hours and hours everyday. Everyone is farming for exp, clips, or stream views thinking they'll be the next big streamer. Everyone is doing a bunch of research on what the "meta" is, memorizing maps, frame data, matchups etc. What's supposed to be escapism has turned into an autistic tryhard-fest that resembles a second job (that you don't get paid for) rather than a fun hobby. It's gotten so bad that a lot of gamers have just quit playing online games altogether and just play single player games. That includes me. After a long day of stressful work and getting shouted at by a neurotic manager, the last thing I want to do is get spawn killed repeatedly and 1 shot across the map in an FPS, zerg rushed in an RTS, or juggled with a long ass combo that goes 65 percent damage. That's just an exercise in masochism.

What annoys me is there's a lot of (almost always male) "influencers" who advocate for even HIGHER levels of neijuan. WORK 16 HOURS A DAY! WAKE UP AT 4AM. QUIT ALL HOBBIES. MONK MODE. YOUR LIFE SHOULD BE JUST WORK AND GYM! LIFE AS A MAN IS SUPPOSED TO BE A NONSTOP STRUGGLE, YOUR CORTISOL SHOULD ALWAYS BE MAXXED, BE A STOOOOOOOOOOOOOOIC SLAVE. Of course a lot of the "influencers" advocating for this live a life of hedonism, but you're supposed to ignore that. A lot of zoomers are internalizing this messaging it seems. I've noticed zoomers, ESPECIALLY male zoomers, tend to have a hyper-competitive mindset about everything. I could give plenty more examples of neijuan, but I think you guys get the point now and this post is TL;DR already and will no doubt be replied to with "DNR". And of course anytime anyone even alludes to this issue, they're bombarded with "SKILL ISSUE SKILL ISSUE, GIT GUD!".

None of this is to say that hyper-competitiveness is inherently bad. It's needed for innovation. But it's not something that should be everywhere all the time. In a world where every man is trying to be number 1, the least capable men suffer the most. I think part of the issue is that society has become hyper-introverted and a lot of time that would have been spent socializing decades ago is now invested in "grinding". Also less men are in relationships and less are getting married and having children, so the energy that would have been put into relationships and raising kids goes to tryharding instead. Society has also become increasingly low trust, which makes people even more inclined to look at each other as competitors. I don't see any realistic solutions coming anytime soon. Hopefully one day we'll have ASI and AI will automate everything and we'll be able to get UBI and have AI gfs. But until then, neijuan, perpetual and ubiquitous hyper-competitiveness, will remain inescapable.
Read it all, very good post
 
this is one of the greatests posts over, its fucking brutal that you can write this well and you're stuck working in fast food as an oldcel

neijuan is the endproduct of chinks finally winning. Ironically, I've noticed as America is increasingly declining as a reliable and respectable world leader, the more every race is forced to live this neijuan chink way just to survive like a common chink bugman. We live hard lives as chinks, and now every race is feeling just how hard WE had it all along.
 
I have never before felt more perturbed down to the very core and essence of my soul by written words alone. The shockwaves of this post need to reverberate and be felt by every single human being that is alive and able. This is the realest, most gut-wrenching shit I've ever read about the absolute state of the fucking world. It's devastatingly depressing and absolutely savage how clown-tier this has all gotten.

Fucking hell, we need that nuclear war to reset this clown show ASAP. I know I sound like broken fucking record whenever I say we need the nukes to land now, but by God do we ever need it more than we do right fucking now at this point in history.

Recently I discovered a Chinese word that is laser accurate in it's description of a phenomenon/issue I've observed for a long time, that only seems to be getting worse and worse. "内卷" or "neijuan". Ignore the literal translation of the word, I won't bore you with the etymology of the word, but when Chinese use it these days, they're talking about the perpetual state of hyper-competitiveness in every facet of life, including basic necessities. Increased effort, increased competition, but the rewards are no better. Imagine a race where everyone is running faster and faster, yet the finish line isn't getting any closer. People are becoming turbo tryhards not even to get ahead, but simply to avoid falling behind. I know there's english words/phrases like "rat race" and "hustle culture" but none of them quite fit the bill like "neijuan". To make a sports analogy, it's like weight cutting in combat sports. Every fighter who fights at "145lbs" walks around 180lbs or more. Fighters will starve and dehydrate themselves before a weigh-in because everyone wants to fight the smallest opponents they possibly can. It's extremely unhealthy, and it's caused serious medical problems and even some deaths, and it doesn't even make the sport any better, yet everyone (aside from heavyweights) HAS to do it because everyone else is and if you don't, you'll lose every fight very quickly.
This hyper-competitiveness has to end at some point. The exponential graph tends to a vertical slope, so at some point nobody will be able to grind further, because you literally can't.

And combat sports weight cutting is pure cancer. It's fucking ridiculous how people will drop 10+ kgs of water weight just for a weigh-in, and then bloat themselves back up later that day. What a joke.

A few weeks ago, I remember having a conversation with a (now former) coworker, keep in mind I work in fast food. He said that he not only lied on his resume to get the job, but he also did research online and memorized a bunch of factoids and terminology related to fast food, some of which seems to be extremely esoteric, anachronistic, or shit only managers know about, because I never heard a lot of the terms he said. I remember when he first got hired he used those terms a bunch and we were all confused. He said he used those terms in his old (fictional) job. He ended up getting another job lined up, so I guess that's why he felt safe admitting this all to me. Now I know lying on resumes is nothing new, and people lie a lot in general, but this guy went through all this fucking trouble to get and keep a minimum wage part time job. Crazy thing is, he probably wouldn't have gotten the job if he didn't lie on his resume. I mentioned this before but people apply at my job everyday. We don't hire 90+ percent of the people who apply. I remember the first fast food job I got. I showed up wearing ghetto ass street clothes, they interviewed me on the spot, and hired me. Now this job requires applicants to do two interviews, and we don't even interview half the people who apply. With every job now, including fast food, you send them your resume, wait, get your first interview scheduled, then if you're one of the lucky ones, you'll move onto the second interview, then finally get hired (again, if you're lucky). I'm burnt out on working in fast food (and I REALLY hate one of the managers) and I've been applying for other jobs, that are equally low pay or very slightly higher, and I've had no luck. I remember a while back I was at an interview for a dish washing job, there were a bunch of people waiting to be interviewed before/after me, and when the lady interviewed me, she flipped through a thick stack of resumes trying to find mine. Yet boomers say there's a "labor shortage", just lol.
An interview lineup for a dishwasher job. Fucking kill me now. JFL

Also related to the job market (and neijuan) is what's happened with education. Today more young people have degrees than at any point in history. Having a higher educated population sounds good on paper, and in a hypothetical post-capitalist utopia it would be great, but in practice it's been disastrous for everyone except for employers. First, due to increased demand, tuition skyrocketed. Now so many graduates have a massive student loan debt. But now that more people have a degree, the value of having a bachelor's degree has tanked. It used to be that having a 4 year degree was pretty much a guaranteed ticket to the middle class (unless you picked a useless major) but that hasn't been the case for a very long time now. And now a lot of jobs that didn't require a degree 20 years ago, now require one. A 4 year degree is the new high school diploma, and no degree is the new registered sex offender. So it's a catch-22 if you're a young person deciding if you should go to college or not. Either you go to college, get saddled with a huge amount of student loan debt, and MAYBE eventually get into the middle class if you're lucky, or don't go to college and accept you'll be trapped at the bottom of the economic ladder for your entire life. And before anyone goes full boomer and suggests "MUH TRAAAADES!" the trades have become just as oversaturated as almost every other field. A lot of young impressionable people took this boomer advice to heart, trade schools increased their fees and many have a long wait list, and many can't find a job after getting certified. One of my coworkers is an electrician who owns his own business, I actually looked it up to see if he was bullshitting me and he's telling the truth. He said it would pay well and he wouldn't have to work this job if he could get enough clients but he can't because there's too much competition. It's feast or famine, like so many other things in life.
JFL @ not having a degree is equivalent to being a registered sex offender when it comes to applying for jobs. That's so Goddamn true, it hurts.

The dating market is another example of something impacted by neijuan. We all know about juggernaut law. We've all seen the dating website/app experiments where they use pictures of a morbidly obese woman, or a granny, and it still gets lots of likes/messages, some of which are from HTNs and even chadlites. Ironically the mentality of the guys chasing these women is "there will be less competition" only to create even more of the competition they tried to avoid. You simply can't avoid the fierce competition, you can't avoid neijuan. We see it with lookmaxxing too. Looksmaxxing is pretty mainstream with zoomers. My zoomer coworkers have talked about it numerous times despite the fact that they hate incels and use the word as a catch-all insult for anyone they don't like. They're all gymmaxxing too. What was originally crated by incels as a means of escaping sub5dom/inceldom, is now a tool for chads/chadlites to mog even harder.
The dating market has been cooked for years now. The effects are being felt by society now that women are negatively affected and mainstream propagandists like Scott Galloway are talking about the crisis with young men. "Men can't find jobs or a purpose, women most affected, because they can't find husbands," because the pool of eligible men have tanked, because decades of affirmative action that has led to extremely large demographic swaths of disenfranchised and aimless (purposeless) men with no future.

I vehemently detest these fucking faggots who ignore the root causes and focus on the symptoms for political and social reasons. It's career suicide to just say feminism and the like are responsible for how fucked things have gotten in society, so every Goddamn "expert" keeps their lips sealed on that and just focuses on saying the right things for the seals to clap.

The most pathetic example of neijuan is probably online gaming. EVERY game, no matter how "casual" it appears at surface level, is full of turbo tryhards. Every game is sweaty as fuck. Even in non-ranked games people are playing like there's a fucking cash prize on the line. There are simply no more "casual" multiplayer games, and there are certainly no casual PVP games anymore. Too many zoomers are "locked-in" playing the game for hours and hours everyday. Everyone is farming for exp, clips, or stream views thinking they'll be the next big streamer. Everyone is doing a bunch of research on what the "meta" is, memorizing maps, frame data, matchups etc. What's supposed to be escapism has turned into an autistic tryhard-fest that resembles a second job (that you don't get paid for) rather than a fun hobby. It's gotten so bad that a lot of gamers have just quit playing online games altogether and just play single player games. That includes me. After a long day of stressful work and getting shouted at by a neurotic manager, the last thing I want to do is get spawn killed repeatedly and 1 shot across the map in an FPS, zerg rushed in an RTS, or juggled with a long ass combo that goes 65 percent damage. That's just an exercise in masochism.
Bro this is the exact fucking reason why I stopped playing competitive multiplayer games. I was one of those pathetic tryhards (because I had to be), and now I'm exclusively playing single-player and co-op games.

What annoys me is there's a lot of (almost always male) "influencers" who advocate for even HIGHER levels of neijuan. WORK 16 HOURS A DAY! WAKE UP AT 4AM. QUIT ALL HOBBIES. MONK MODE. YOUR LIFE SHOULD BE JUST WORK AND GYM! LIFE AS A MAN IS SUPPOSED TO BE A NONSTOP STRUGGLE, YOUR CORTISOL SHOULD ALWAYS BE MAXXED, BE A STOOOOOOOOOOOOOOIC SLAVE. Of course a lot of the "influencers" advocating for this live a life of hedonism, but you're supposed to ignore that. A lot of zoomers are internalizing this messaging it seems. I've noticed zoomers, ESPECIALLY male zoomers, tend to have a hyper-competitive mindset about everything. I could give plenty more examples of neijuan, but I think you guys get the point now and this post is TL;DR already and will no doubt be replied to with "DNR". And of course anytime anyone even alludes to this issue, they're bombarded with "SKILL ISSUE SKILL ISSUE, GIT GUD!".
Those influencers (God, I HATE that this is a fucking thing in the current day) who say that shit need to die in a fire. I'm serious, I'll save gallons of my piss just to throw on their graves, instead of putting out the fires.

None of this is to say that hyper-competitiveness is inherently bad. It's needed for innovation. But it's not something that should be everywhere all the time. In a world where every man is trying to be number 1, the least capable men suffer the most. I think part of the issue is that society has become hyper-introverted and a lot of time that would have been spent socializing decades ago is now invested in "grinding". Also less men are in relationships and less are getting married and having children, so the energy that would have been put into relationships and raising kids goes to tryharding instead. Society has also become increasingly low trust, which makes people even more inclined to look at each other as competitors. I don't see any realistic solutions coming anytime soon. Hopefully one day we'll have ASI and AI will automate everything and we'll be able to get UBI and have AI gfs. But until then, neijuan, perpetual and ubiquitous hyper-competitiveness, will remain inescapable.
No, fuck that shit. Hyper-competitiveness is literally just like cancer, which itself is unchecked cellular growth that spirals out of control. Hyper-competitiveness is the cancer of every competitive domain. It kills the fucking thing, whatever it is, and the only ones who thrive are the ones who ironically engage in the cancerous behaviors that lead to the thing being killed and closed off for everyone but those hyper-optimizers. Job market? Dead. Dating? Dead. Online gaming. Dead.

This death will occur in every domain of competition. There will always be somebody who games it and "solves" it, then we all have to move on or get stuck trying to invest ridiculously far more energy than we will ever get out of it as fruit.

There needs to be a pruning or culling - a way of resetting the competition so that these hyper-optimizers who grind 20 hours a day for a 0.01% edge against the rest are invalidated.

THE FEW ARE KILLING THE FUCKING SHEEP WHEN THEY NEED TO BE SHEARING IT, AND EVERYBODY ELSE WITH THE ELECTRIC RAZORS THAT THEY HAD TO BUY TO EVEN CONSIDER COMPETING ARE NOW LEFT WITH NOUGHT TO DO BUT PLAY WITH THEIR DICKS.

GOD-FUCKING-DAMNIT ALL TO HELL.
 
Last edited:
Working an entry level low paid fast food job is truecel trait :cryfeels:
 
I blame the jews for this, I don't know how but it's probably them. When I notice something problematic about the world I say it feels jewish.
 
especially when you are clearly more intelligent and capable of doing more with your life
Being ugly, short and/or autistic as a man will severely limit your potential in life.

There are so many studies showing taller and better looking men are favored for jobs and promotions.

And not only that. The fact itself of being tall and attractive gives you a confidence boost and better mental health, which increases your performance...
 
Another one of the things touched by this hyper competitiveness are hobbies.
Whether it's forum for audiophiles, amateur fishermen or modding forum or discord for some semi-popular game the vibe is always the same - it's no longer about sharing in your obsession about whatever thing you're passionate about, no, it's about hoarding knowledge like a dragon and not sharing it with anyone ("ummm, educate yourself/go look it up") so you can "mog", picking holes in anything anyone says, picking arguments about everything and nothing, forming cliques, and all of that with reddit tier jannies on top.
People threat these spaces as surrogate for irl social competition.
 
Last edited:
Idk whats worse about societies like this one, the fact that none of these tips of "WAKE UP AT 1:30 AM, MAKE AT LEAST $10,000 A DAY, QUIT ALL HOBBIES AND THINGS THAT BRING YOU JOY UNLESS ONE OF THEM IS GOING TO THE GYM, THEN START DOING TREN, START MEDITATING, I.E; SIT IN A ROOM DOING NOTHING FOR AN HOUR BECAUSE THAT'S PRODUCTIVE SOMEHOW" actually work, or that the zoomers who support the people peddling this nonsense will say they will lock in and do all of this soon, only to go back to vaping and playing fortnite.
 
I instantly bookmarked this high-IQ thread. This is something I also notice with people online using competitive gaming lingo to talk about IRL: "grind," "speedrun," "maximize" demonstrate the ultra-competitive need to be on top and get all "achievements" or be a loser. The top player gets all the attention, while the second place is a nobody.

Glad someone with a higher verbal IQ also noticed this because I would not be able to write such a good thread.
 
Last edited:
Interestingly neijuan is a calque of the English word "involution" (can't say I see the resemblance tho) making
I know there's english words/phrases like "rat race" and "hustle culture" but none of them quite fit the bill like "neijuan"
a bit ironic.
I won't bore you with the etymology of the word
Nigga why would you omit such an interesting tidbit?

the trades have become just as oversaturated as almost every other field
Interesting. In the Netherlands there's quite the shortage I believe, with people in extreme cases having to wait a month for a plumber for nonurgent stuff.

I have never before felt more perturbed down to the very core and essence of my soul by written words alone. The shockwaves of this post need to reverberate and be felt by every single human being that is alive and able. This is the realest, most gut-wrenching shit I've ever read about the absolute state of the fucking world.
OGcel dicksucking is real
 
I agree a lot of normies are trying so hard for a used up 20+ bodycounts foid these days. Simpening is real.
 
OGcel dicksucking is real
:feelsseriously:

That's twice you're trying to put me down with your comments. What's your problem with me? WTF did I do to you?

I don't give a flying monkey turd that he's OG, I appreciate strong posts from GrAYs and OGs alike. Of course, OGcels are far more likely to be black pilled and say the real brutal shit that the newerfags don't. I also speak truth to power and call out the bullshit, and have done so here in the past.
 
Last edited:
There needs to be a pruning or culling - a way of resetting the competition so that these hyper-optimizers who grind 20 hours a day for a 0.01% edge against the rest are invalidated.
Do you think obsession with hyper-optimization is a symptom of a system hitting its limit? For example, compare Chess with online competitive games. Unlike these vidyas, in chess, you cannot grind your way to the top by just mastering a few broken mechanics in the game. I wonder sometimes what the reaction would be like if chess came out today as a video game. Zoomers would probably scream on day one about nerfing the queen.

It's like zoomers are allergic to any system that is even mildly complex. They just want a clear pathway to success, but the problem it creates is that everyone follows the same pathway which leads to the difference between the winner and the losers coming down to who is more "optimized." See that IRL too. Like, the best way to make your business a success is to market heavily and push your product before your competition could. The quality of the product doesn't matter; just take advantage of cheap and unskilled labor. The usefulness of the product doesn't matter as the heavy marketing has already installed the idea in the consoomers' head that they need that product in their life.
 
:feelsseriously:

That's twice you're trying to put me down with your comments. What's your problem with me? WTF did I do to you?

I don't give a flying monkey turd that he's OG, I appreciate strong posts from GrAYs and OGs alike. Of course, OGcels are far more likely to be black pilled and say the real brutal shit that the newerfags don't. I also speak truth to power and call out the bullshit, and have done so here in the past.
I just thought the cited bit was overly melodramatic. I was trying to be tongue-in-cheek. Sorry.
 
I just thought the cited bit was overly melodramatic. I was trying to be tongue-in-cheek. Sorry.
I understand. Carry on, brocel.
 
Do you think obsession with hyper-optimization is a symptom of a system hitting its limit?
No, I don't think that it's a limitation of the system (any system) per se. I think that this hyper-optimization is a natural consequence of all adversarial systems that is inherent and built-in. There will always exist some GTO (game theoretically optimal) strategy in all adversarial games. This is probably a theorem in game theory somewhere, but I don't know enough (I didn't study the subject that heavily). In any game where there are winners and losers the Nash equilibrium will emerge amongst the top competitors over time. The time horizon depends usually on factors like complexity and the number of participants in the game (players). In gaming terms this is similar to the "meta," but not quite, since the NE is a fixed answer (solved from a set of givens and conditions) and the meta tends to shift in response to the competition adjusting their strategies (typically due to incomplete information). In some sense, the meta at the high levels is a close approximation of the NE.

Sadly, hyper-optimizers will always exist. One possible workaround is to construct a game that punishes this or limits the rewards in some way. But then the obvious problem immediately sticks out like a sore thumb: you disincentivize competition and winning, which results in less and less people playing your game over time. This can have further cascading effects downstream, if your game is big enough and important enough, like the capitalist game of wealth accumulation that we've all implicitly agreed to play. One effect is one we already know, and that is a lack of innovation and creative solution-finding. You can bandaid this by having an additional game that migrates the lack of incentives from the original game, but this doesn't truly solve the problem, since you're simply passing the buck.

The only solution that I can currently see is to have an interconnected web of games whereby the disincentives of hyper-optimization in one game dynamically translate to incentives (rewards) in another game. It's difficult to construct this kind of game in most modern societies today, since the game of accumulating money - the one true universal point system - is king worldwide.

For example, compare Chess with online competitive games. Unlike these vidyas, in chess, you cannot grind your way to the top by just mastering a few broken mechanics in the game. I wonder sometimes what the reaction would be like if chess came out today as a video game. Zoomers would probably scream on day one about nerfing the queen.
giphy.gif


It's like zoomers are allergic to any system that is even mildly complex. They just want a clear pathway to success, but the problem it creates is that everyone follows the same pathway which leads to the difference between the winner and the losers coming down to who is more "optimized." See that IRL too. Like, the best way to make your business a success is to market heavily and push your product before your competition could. The quality of the product doesn't matter; just take advantage of cheap and unskilled labor. The usefulness of the product doesn't matter as the heavy marketing has already installed the idea in the consoomers' head that they need that product in their life.
And this is why we have so much goyslop in the world.
 
Last edited:
yet its only the males that r hyper competitive due to testosterone. Foids tend to sloth around and pick the easy roads. In the end all they want is to fuck prime age pussy. Thats always been the end goal to most of male ambition.
 
in other words men are simping harder for less
 
This post is good.

1: this is why you must punish cheaters and people who push boundaries too much. If everyone starts cheating, society slips to this.

2: this is why Andrew Tate is a poisonous influence. He wants more neijuan. He advocates for even more male competition to get crumbs of pussy. He is a fucking Jew faggot and never even worked for his money. Damn I hate that guy and all his followers.

3: soon they will starve all of us and there will be nothing left to compete for. Better to just give up now and you won't be disappointed when it all comes crumbling down and collapses on top of you. Because yes, if you are not an elite you will not get a good life after this point.
 
I didn't get a job till I learned how to lie
 
You're basically describing why I don't even bother trying.
 
This post is good.

1: this is why you must punish cheaters and people who push boundaries too much. If everyone starts cheating, society slips to this.

2: this is why Andrew Tate is a poisonous influence. He wants more neijuan. He advocates for even more male competition to get crumbs of pussy. He is a fucking Jew faggot and never even worked for his money. Damn I hate that guy and all his followers.

3: soon they will starve all of us and there will be nothing left to compete for. Better to just give up now and you won't be disappointed when it all comes crumbling down and collapses on top of you. Because yes, if you are not an elite you will not get a good life after this point.
 
Good Read . Its a Dog Eats Dog or Born at the Finishline ( luck ) World :feelsclown:
 
brutal. good chink word. chinks have the best philosophers :feelshehe:

rare premium quality thread

here, have this :feelsaww:
Award


capitalists keep on winning :smonk:
Bro writes an entire PHD thesis
it was a good phd thesis :feelsYall:
There are simply no more "casual" multiplayer games, and there are certainly no casual PVP games anymore
tabletop simulator
None of this is to say that hyper-competitiveness is inherently bad. It's needed for innovation
no innovation for my face
With every job now, including fast food, you send them your resume, wait, get your first interview scheduled, then if you're one of the lucky ones, you'll move onto the second interview, then finally get hired (again, if you're lucky).
I never even tried. I saw the hr cunts asking you humiliating questions, the multiple rounds taking whole days each only to not even be rejected, just forgotten. and if you get in, congratulations, you get minimum wage zero upwards mobility, day-night shifts however they feel like, treated like a piece of shit disposable cuck, have to answer to and be bullied by femshits and normalfags, attend diversity training, pay exorbitant taxes. just no, I rather die

in a better world, I could've been great :feelscry:
Interesting. In the Netherlands there's quite the shortage I believe, with people in extreme cases having to wait a month for a plumber for nonurgent stuff.
they'll be importing jeet plumbers any day now :feelsEhh:
I didn't get a job till I learned how to lie
that's crazy
 
this is why Andrew Tate is a poisonous influence. He wants more neijuan. He advocates for even more male competition to get crumbs of pussy. He is a fucking Jew faggot and never even worked for his money. Damn I hate that guy and all his followers.
IMG 0906
 
I wonder sometimes what the reaction would be like if chess came out today as a video game. Zoomers would probably scream on day one about nerfing the queen.
The sad thing is, whatever company made it would cave-in and make a "balance patch" because of this.

Then there'd be more balance patches, which would come out every month or so, to cater to whoever is complaining on social media. And every few months there'd be a new mechanic added to the game that would fundamentally change the gameplay.

5 years after the game came out, it would be completely unrecognizable from it's original form.

:soy: "I activate v-trigger, then sacrifice 3 pawns to megaevolve my rook, which I then fuse with my bishop to create Mega Dark Arch-bishop: Final Form who has a passive ability to heal all pieces in a one square radius and an ultimate which revives one piece from the graveyard"

I'm glad you brought this up though, because this is another reason why I stopped playing games online. I HATE constant "balance patches". I hate how a bunch of people can go on social media and effectively strongarm a company into nerfing a character. I hate how game companies always kowtow to these pressures because they want to create the image of a company that "listens to it's customers".

It also punishes people who don't play the game everyday constantly. If you're a tryhard who plays constantly, you'll quickly adapt to the new update and the new "meta". If you play more casually and only play sporadically, you'll one day play the game for the first time in a few weeks and you'll be completely lost because the game fundamentally changed, and you'll lose every match. You might even have to learn a new character because zoomers took to twitter and cried about it being overpowered, and now the devs have nerfed the character to the point where they're unplayable online.
 
There will always exist some GTO (game theoretically optimal) strategy in all adversarial games. This is probably a theorem in game theory somewhere, but I don't know enough (I didn't study the subject that heavily).
You're right. As Wikipedia puts it
Nash proved that if mixed strategies (where a player chooses probabilities of using various pure strategies) are allowed, then every game with a finite number of players in which each player can choose from finitely many pure strategies has at least one Nash equilibrium, which might be a pure strategy for each player or might be a probability distribution over strategies for each player.
the proof is a nice application of the Brouwer fixed point theorem for any curious mathcels reading this
In any game where there are winners and losers the Nash equilibrium will emerge amongst the top competitors over time.
this statement is a little suspicious. By definition, a (mixed) Nash equilibrium is an action profile (of mixed strategies) where no player can benefit by UNILATERALLY deviating. there is therefore no reason in general for only a strict subset of players to play according to the NE.

Not to mention, everything I've said so far applied to singular games. Repeated games are quite a bit more complicated I believe.
 
this statement is a little suspicious. By definition, a (mixed) Nash equilibrium is an action profile (of mixed strategies) where no player can benefit by UNILATERALLY deviating. there is therefore no reason in general for only a strict subset of players to play according to the NE.

Not to mention, everything I've said so far applied to singular games. Repeated games are quite a bit more complicated I believe.
I meant that you will have a small group of players who will get to the point where they will all use strategies that will not deviate from GTO, because they will all understand how disadvantageous that would be. But since the GTO solutions to some games will not be directly solvable (or known), there will exist deviations that will be around the neighborhood of the exact solution. This is where the concept of the "meta" comes in. The meta is that close approximation where there's enough room for a push and pull of different strategies that are safely explored.

Perhaps in some games the NE will never be known, but strategies will come very close to the exact solution, given enough time.
 
Last edited:
I meant that you will have a small group of players who will get to the point where they will all use strategies that will not deviate from GTO, because they will all understand how disadvantageous that would be. But since the GTO solutions to some games will not be directly solvable (or known), there will exist deviations that will be around the neighborhood of the exact solution. This is where the concept of the "meta" comes in. The meta is that close approximation where there's enough room for a push and pull of different strategies that are safely explored.

Perhaps in some games the NE will never be known, but strategies will come very close to the exact solution, given enough time.
I get what you're saying but mathematically this is all very subtle if true at all. Convergence to equilibria can be quite the subtle thing.
 
I'm glad you brought this up though, because this is another reason why I stopped playing games online. I HATE constant "balance patches". I hate how a bunch of people can go on social media and effectively strongarm a company into nerfing a character. I hate how game companies always kowtow to these pressures because they want to create the image of a company that "listens to it's customers".

It also punishes people who don't play the game everyday constantly. If you're a tryhard who plays constantly, you'll quickly adapt to the new update and the new "meta". If you play more casually and only play sporadically, you'll one day play the game for the first time in a few weeks and you'll be completely lost because the game fundamentally changed, and you'll lose every match. You might even have to learn a new character because zoomers took to twitter and cried about it being overpowered, and now the devs have nerfed the character to the point where they're unplayable online.
The game company and its rabid and addicted consoomer base deserve each other. They feed off each other. The addict pisses all his savings in the microtransaction hellhole and the goyslop product of a game with its ever-changing dynamics keeps the addict seated for eternity. The poor casuals are just another demographic for scalping off during 'big events', like major patch releases or promotions. It's no different than a casino at this point.

On another note, I think online gaming has greatly contributed to the destruction of male socialization by completely replacing the idea of socialization. Someone grinding 24/7 in the recess of their room seems is just a part of the greater narrative.
 
I have noticed this around when I was 14 or so and have been thinking about it non-stop. That's why I simply stopped caring for anything.
 

Similar threads

exposesociety
Replies
17
Views
376
UnchargedSamsung
UnchargedSamsung
Janaki
Replies
14
Views
356
Ahnfeltia
Ahnfeltia
TheJester
Replies
6
Views
626
DNRcel
DNRcel
TheJester
Replies
30
Views
2K
loopcel
loopcel
WhoSeesOneWhy
Replies
13
Views
664
Ghostface
Ghostface

Users who are viewing this thread

shape1
shape2
shape3
shape4
shape5
shape6
Back
Top