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Theory Male Separatism and Post-Female Society

You know, its funny that Rehab did a video on this stuff. Him and I talk on Patreon every now and then, and one of these conversations was about surrogacy and where to go from here. The main problem is that the community is so fixated on impressing women. The old MSTOWs had it right, the juice really is not worth the squeeze for sub 6 men.
that rehab video was kinda ass ngl. expected better from him. it's just collectivist slop all the way down. like nigga w*men THRIVE off collectivism and big daddy gubmint "solutions"
You know, I did some research on this with some AI tools I use. If a nation were to commit $10 billion over a 20 year period, they could realistically have this technology, sooner if they go full Manhattan Project levels of prioritization and funding. $50 billion is not a lot of money for a major power, especially one that is looking down the barrel of demographic collapse. The problem is convinving people to raise these children.
I generally have more faith in billionaires (and chinks) when it comes to delivering solutions. Thiel is a pretty blackpilled one. although they're more focused on longevity, AI and safety from ww3 currently than increasing population (something they're not particularly interested in either)
 
I sincerely doubt technology's ability to liberate sub-5 men; it's most likely just going to provide slightly more advanced pacifiers to keep us distracted and compliant while the demographic collapse plays out, especially since truly convincing DBH-like android girlfriends are a far-fetched fantasy.
Who knows, technology advances very rapidly. The advent of social media was what caused hypergamy to spread. It would be crazy if android girlfriends were invented causing the male version of hypergamy to spread in the same century. Crazy times we live in
 
I've been thinking about a few ideas related to the blackpill while I write my book. The blackpill itself can be boiled down into
  1. Genetic determinism
  2. Societal gynocentrsim
We are all aware here of genetic determinism, so I will skip over that section. Societal gynocentrism is a far more interesting topic to me, since it is not as discussed in the wider blackpill circles as much as it needs to be. We must understand, above all else, that females are biologically inherently more valuable than males due to their reproductive monopoly. They are the genetic filters of our species, and the only known source of new humans. The average male is simply more expendable than the average female. This is the source and basis of all gynocentrism, the latest political manifestation of which we refer to as feminism. It is from this basis that a social contract between the sexes forms. The current paradigm was formed sometime after the spread of agriculture, which caused a major bottleneck amongst the male population. This was likely caused by the collection of resources/capital by a smaller group of men. This led to the rise and spread of patrilineal descent and patrilocality. Before then, we had a different social contract, one that placed far more importance on female mate selection over pure ownership of resources. This is what humanity operated under for several millions of years of hunter-gathering, and is what we are returning to under "relative" post-scarcity due to industrialization.

Industrialization has changed the agriculture based social contract. Prior to about 300 years ago, the vast majority of humans lived in rural farming communities. It was here that we saw the establishment of cultural and political norms that allowed what many call the "patriarchy" to flourish. The "patriarchy" is nothing more than a contract between males to share reproductive access. Obviously, females did not like this arrangement, but due to the subsistence level of living many people were in, it was tolerated as part of a broader deal. Women were still able to have their own trades and commercial enterprises, but reproduction was something that required community, church and family approval. The general idea was that if a man did honest work, and was not a complete failure, he could land himself a wife and secure a genetic legacy. This began to change with industrialization, which allowed women to perform the same work as men, broadly speaking. A woman could run the same machine a man could, and the man's natural strength, an asset in agriculture and hunter-gathering, began to diminish. First wave feminism popped up around this era, and women's rights as a modern concept began to take shape.

As time went on, and technology became more and more complex, women were gradually liberated by industrialization. The final nail in the coffin came in the 20th century, when after a combination of WW1 and WW2, women were fully integrated into the workforce alongside men. This arrangement "functioned" for about 20 years or so, until the social revolutions of the 60s and 70s radically challenged the old social structure and contracts. Rather than the old system that men followed, which was a straightforward path to breeding, things became increasingly like the old pre-agricultural norm. Digital technologies only sped up the disintegration. Instant communication and relatively quick travel (cars and planes) opened up the female mating pool to a much broader one. Women could suddenly choose a sexual partner from dozens of men, where before they were limited to their friends and local networks. Social media came into the picture around 2005, and radically changed everything. Now women had access to hundreds of men, and within 10 years, that pool would grow to literal thousands of potential mates. Looks gradually displaced all other forms of a man's worth, until we got to where we have been for the last 10 years or so.

This is all a very brief and abridged version of what actually happened, but it serves its purpose well enough.

Solutions:

There are three schools of thought floating around in our community. I will discuss each of them briefly.

1) Return to traditional values
2) Looksmaxxing
3) LDAR (voluntary withdrawal to speed up the collapse)

All three of these approaches are flawed. The first one is flawed by "traditional values" cannot exist in a non traditional world. Those values do not function when instant communication, mass media, and rapid personal transport exist. They were already starting to crack before widespread adoption of these technologies, and these technologies just delivered a finishing blow to the old patriarchal system. The process of industrialization requires that all human capital be put to use. The nation that uses women as workers will outcompete the one that doesn't. You can see the spread of feminism in real time as the world industrializes. Latin America is a great example of this in action, as is sub-Saharan Africa. Education and women's earning potential are negatively correlated with fertility rate, and its impossible to put the genie back in the bottle. If the Taliban are having trouble doing this, than you better believe it will be impossible for us.

The second solution is the one commonly associated with the blackpill. It will not work long term because of inflation. Gym used to be something only a few guys did back in the 2000s. Now it is required if you want to seriously attempt to date. The same thing will happen to all softmaxxing techniques, something we already see happening ever since Tiktok got a hold of looksmaxxing. Women will adjust their baseline expectations to make sure that the 80/20 rule is maintained. This is how we get hoeflation and looksflation. Looksmaxxers today would've slayed in the 90s and 00s. Now? They are just another fish in the ocean. And looksmaxxing doesn't acknowledge the bigger problem, which is that there will always be a better looking man than you around. As a result, you cannot beat hypergamy.

LDAR is the third commonly proposed solution, which posits that if enough men opt out from participation in feminist society, that society will collapse. Besides the dubiousness of a few million NEETs destroying the system by burdening it down (if it ever became a real problem, it could be fixed politically very easily), NEETing is a very bad idea in the age of advanced copes. It is generally good idea to be a richcel (or just have some savings) versus being a poorcel. No different than gym in this case. You want to be as financially independent as possible, especially since it looks like surplus males everywhere will be on the chopping block in the coming global conflicts brought on by geopolitical multipolarity. I remember speaking to a ukrainian poster on discord who was glad that he had savings. He left in 2022 a few days after the conflict, and he is still alive, unlike some of his mates from back home.

Modern gynocentric society will never allow itself to be reformed in favor of men due to structural bias, and trying to win in a rigged dating market is a waste of time. For many of us, no amount of looksmaxxing will save us from hypergamy and no amount of traditional values will fix the technology problem (as we see in Islamic fertility decline). The only real choices are to revert to a very old subsistence lifestyle, like the Amish, or fully embrace technology and use it to replace women in the same way industrialization has replaced men.

This leads me to the title of this thread, which is male separatism. More radical MSTOW guys back in the early to mid 10s were making predictions that something like the modern blackpill would arise and go mainstream within ten years. Back in those days, in that community, relations with women were considered wastes of time for most men (sub 6s), and that the rest of the manosphere would eventually catch up to that realization. Well look where we are now. MRA was a failure (nobody gives a shit about men's rights), PUA was proven to be bullshit, looksmaxxing is being proven to be bullshit as we speak (just repackaged redpill self improooovement garbage), and MSTOW was absorbed into our ideology. While this was all happening, AI was improving rapidly, as I mentioned above. When I first joined this site, I remember telling everybody that AI companions would be viable within 10 years. Some people called me retarded. It is safe to say now that I was indeed right, and if you want to be in the best possible position to take advantage of these advanced copes, you will need to moneymaxx. I will reiterate my prediction that we will have working sex robots by 2035 or 2040 at the most, and that artificial womb technology will be commercially available by 2050 (early versions are currently in clinical trials for extreme premature babies). It will be entirely possible within 20 years to have a child without involving a woman, and it is currently possible to do all of these things without a romantic relationship (AI gf + surrogacy to be a single dad). Its only a question of how much money you want to spend.

The typical arguments used against this technology will gradually fall away as they become more normalized. We already see AI companions being increasingly used by younger boys and teens, and its likely that they will end up preferring the bots over human females in adulthood. In the same way porn was once viewed as a dirty vice only degenerates looked at, it is now as common as water. AI companions and sexdolls/sexbots will follow the same path. Gradual normalization over a period of about 20 years. How do you think males, partially raised by technology and whose formative dating and romantic encounters were with Turing-complete AI, will react to the increasing financial and social demands of the increasingly vitriolic female sex? Do you think they will choose to coexist with them? Or will they try to minimize and eventually eliminate them from their daily lives? Ask yourself this brocel. If you never had to see another female again for the rest of your life, would you be happy, sad, or indifferent?

Ectogenesis and commercial surrogacy are also gaining steam, as the surrogacy industry continues to expand, and ectogenesis moves from concept to clinical trials. The price of surrogacy has also come down, with globalization driving the price to as low as $60k in some jurisdictions. It is now possible for a middle class male to save up enough money to effectively buy an heir, and, if he practices proper financial management, he could even raise the boy himself (single dads tend to have better outcomes than single moms).

This is where I think the next phase of the blackpill is. It simply makes more sense to pursue these alternatives than to continue to try and placate women who hate you or to just give up and let society fuck you over. I don't exactly know the details of how this transformation will happen, and because the topic is relatively niche even in our circles, I'm not sure how the broader bp community will react to it. But I have a strong prediction that what I've discussed above will be a common discussion point in mainstream society in 15 years as demographic trends continue to progress along their current path and the gender divide becomes even worse. The eventual result of all of this will be the gradual elimination of the female sex over a period of about 120 years (four generations), similar to how internal combustion and electric engines gradually displaced beasts of burden in industrialized society. It will make very little sense to continue supporting them when literally every thing they do could be done better by a man or by a machine. This might not be great news for us today, but the scourge of inceldom, which has existed since the evolutionary introduction of sexual reproduction, will finally end for our species.
Religion once enforced monogamy which was gigabased. Unfortunately faggots ruined this.
 
"Modern technology and industry is what is causing all of this" tech doesnt cause anything it only further enables things.
The march of technological progress cannot be stopped. It never has been. Your best bet is to be like the Amish and hope that technological society doesn't choose to wipe you out for resources.
how's Britain now?
Irrelevant to the conversation at hand. You can use any technologically superior people or nation defeating a less advanced one in my example.

Loli did a good job answering the rest of your post, but suffice to say, technology shapes culture.
I sincerely doubt technology's ability to liberate sub-5 men; it's most likely just going to provide slightly more advanced pacifiers to keep us distracted and compliant while the demographic collapse plays out
Its fine to doubt it, I just don't think you are fully realizing the implications of what is happening. Young boys growing up with AI right now will not view AI the same way you or even I do. They'll be far more comfortable with it and likely prefer it to actual foids.
that rehab video was kinda ass ngl. expected better from him. it's just collectivist slop all the way down. like nigga w*men THRIVE off collectivism and big daddy gubmint "solutions"
RR needs to understand that no top down solution will fix what is ultimately a bottom up problem.
I generally have more faith in billionaires (and chinks) when it comes to delivering solutions.
There will definitely be a market for such technology. Maybe the market will indeed save us this time.
 
I sincerely doubt technology's ability to liberate sub-5 men; it's most likely just going to provide slightly more advanced pacifiers to keep us distracted and compliant while the demographic collapse plays out, especially since truly convincing DBH-like android girlfriends are a far-fetched fantasy.
What makes you think that
 
What makes you think that
Because every major technological shift that was supposed to solve social problems has mostly ended up managing or exacerbating them instead. Social media was supposed to connect people, yet loneliness continues to rise. Dating apps were supposed to make finding partners easier, yet ended up causing the exact opposite. The pattern I see is technology becoming better at providing substitutes and coping mechanisms than at addressing the underlying issue. Even if AI companions become highly advanced, there is a huge difference between a sophisticated robot and a truly convincing, human-level android like those in DBH. The latter would require breakthroughs in robotics, artificial intelligence, materials science, energy storage, and mass production that may be decades away, if they happen at all (which is itself doubtful, since the notion of a general intelligence that is self-conscious seems unlikely). The best I can imagine is a model that imitates general intelligence to a decent degree, but to actually recreate it may very well be impossible.

That aside, there are some major philosophical issues with the idea of a simulacrum, and while one could argue that the general population of men may not care about such conceptual abstractions, this is a relevant issue nonetheless. An AI simply cannot offer you the same level of Hegelian recognition that another self-conscious being can, which is a concept that is detailed particularly well in the Master-Slave dialectic; the relationship inherently involves a master who cannot receive the adequate form of recognition by a being, since the AI is ultimately a simulacrum meant to imitate what is a genuine experience. This is, in part, why chatting with an advanced AI does not offer you the same feelings and investment that a text-based interaction with another human does; unless AI could truly become self-conscious, capable of phenomenological experience (as well as embodied cognition), and self-determining in a measurable way, it is difficult to see how it would satisfy the base need for recognition; and, if it were to become that, who's to say it would still be interested in serving humanity?
 
Because every major technological shift that was supposed to solve social problems has mostly ended up managing or exacerbating them instead. Social media was supposed to connect people, yet loneliness continues to rise. Dating apps were supposed to make finding partners easier, yet ended up causing the exact opposite. The pattern I see is technology becoming better at providing substitutes and coping mechanisms than at addressing the underlying issue. Even if AI companions become highly advanced, there is a huge difference between a sophisticated robot and a truly convincing, human-level android like those in DBH. The latter would require breakthroughs in robotics, artificial intelligence, materials science, energy storage, and mass production that may be decades away, if they happen at all (which is itself doubtful, since the notion of a general intelligence that is self-conscious seems unlikely). The best I can imagine is a model that imitates general intelligence to a decent degree, but to actually recreate it may very well be impossible.

That aside, there are some major philosophical issues with the idea of a simulacrum, and while one could argue that the general population of men may not care about such conceptual abstractions, this is a relevant issue nonetheless. An AI simply cannot offer you the same level of Hegelian recognition that another self-conscious being can, which is a concept that is detailed particularly well in the Master-Slave dialectic; the relationship inherently involves a master who cannot receive the adequate form of recognition by a being, since the AI is ultimately a simulacrum meant to imitate what is a genuine experience. This is, in part, why chatting with an advanced AI does not offer you the same feelings and investment that a text-based interaction with another human does; unless AI could truly become self-conscious, capable of phenomenological experience (as well as embodied cognition), and self-determining in a measurable way, it is difficult to see how it would satisfy the base need for recognition; and, if it were to become that, who's to say it would still be interested in serving humanity?
Ai is a way more significant than social media

Ai already mirrors human neuroscience

We already have robots

“breakthroughs in robotics, artificial intelligence, materials science, energy storage, and mass production that may be decades away, ”

These advancements are already happening at an alarming rate. Haven’t you seen the robots that can do household chores and the humanoid robots doing factory work
 
The problem is that all societies are heading in this direction. Modern technology and industry is what is causing all of this. Just changing the leadership, or even reverting the culture, is not enough. Unless you are talking about being taken over by the Amish or something.
If an Amish-like society is an exception, then it's not really an irrelevant hypothetical. It's the type of society your own theory suggests should be necessary. It wouldn't be unrealistic for a society to adopt traditional institutions that resemble some aspects of Amish communities without literally becoming Amish.

Technology amplifies liberalism (it amplifies everything), but in no way does it cause it.

Your analysis is too one-directional. You seem very willing to explore substitutes such as AI girlfriends, but much less willing to consider the possibility that societies could respond by simply restoring very strict, traditional structures.

I don't have one bit of a problem with replacing women, but I'd have preferred if you were less biased (everyone has a bias, but here it's obvious).

I do understand that technology affects culture on its own. However, I personally believe we'll first see a new period of reactionary institutions dominating again. The one reason why you wouldn't mention the dominance of reactionary forces is probably because you believe indistinguishable AI fembots will come in our lifetimes and have AI rule or something.

I think further into the future, societies will likely fracture into three main types of communities: Amish-style traditionalists, fascist-style states utilizing AI, and maybe a couple of city-states with full-on AI governance and liberalism. All three could still have AI girlfriends operating, meaning women could still be replaced. I do think fembots will eventually be the dominant choice; I just don't see it happening in our lifetimes. I'm not that optimistic about the timeline of tech yet.
 
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I sincerely doubt technology's ability to liberate sub-5 men; it's most likely just going to provide slightly more advanced pacifiers to keep us distracted and compliant while the demographic collapse plays out, especially since truly convincing DBH-like android girlfriends are a far-fetched fantasy.
I'd agree. This post sounds a bit like cope.
 
Technology amplifies liberalism (it amplifies everything), but in no way does it cause it.
Liberalism is a consequence of mechanized production.
You seem very willing to explore substitutes such as AI girlfriends, but much less willing to consider the possibility that societies could respond by simply restoring very strict, traditional structures.
Because even North Korea and Afghanistan are seeing birth rate declines. If those places are seeing birth rate declines, how do you think a modern liberal state will revert far enough back to reverse the effects of industrialization and NOT get BTFO'd by the first power that it encounters that continued down the route of industrialization and high technology. Again, British versus Zulu. Modern Amish and similar groups exist at the mercy of technological society. Its why they can function as small groups, but will never be able to challenge the way things are. The Amish exist because they have a very powerful and technologically advanced military and police force protecting them.
The one reason why you wouldn't mention the dominance of reactionary forces is probably because you believe indistinguishable AI fembots will come in our lifetimes and have AI rule or something.
I don't believe in these things because we've seen other nations who have these systems succumb to the same problems we have.
I think further into the future, societies will likely fracture into three main types of communities: Amish-style traditionalists, fascist-style states utilizing AI, and maybe a couple of city-states with full-on AI governance and liberalism. All three could still have AI girlfriends operating, meaning women could still be replaced. I do think fembots will eventually be the dominant choice; I just don't see it happening in our lifetimes. I'm not that optimistic about the timeline of tech yet.
I agree here on some aspects. Different people's will try different things. I personally believe the future I predict will happen because it is simply more efficient. No courting, no mate competition, no irrationality. Imagine the amount of effort and time the average normie male spends trying to attract a mate. The artificial womb and sexbot combo eliminates this. You are given a few path choices, and as long as you do one of them reasonably well, you are rewarded with companionship and breeding. Modern societies have lost this engine, which is why they are stalling. Effort no longer has a guarantee of reward.
 
ecause every major technological shift that was supposed to solve social problems has mostly ended up managing or exacerbating them instead.
I don't know about this brocel. The green revolution gave us a massive boost in crop yields, and famine is almost unheard of outside of very unstable regions. That is just one example.
Social media was supposed to connect people, yet loneliness continues to rise. Dating apps were supposed to make finding partners easier, yet ended up causing the exact opposite.
I mean, incels.is is social media, is it not? How worse off would you or I be if this site didn't exist? And dating apps were never designed to make finding partners easier. They were scams from the beginning, ego boosting tools for women. That is there real true purpose.
This is, in part, why chatting with an advanced AI does not offer you the same feelings and investment that a text-based interaction with another human does
I strongly disagree. You need to talk to some more sub 90 iq retards if you seriously believe this. There is nothing unique about the human thought process compared to a artificial one. We understand the role genetics plays in influencing behavior, and we also understand the role genetics plays for women. They are simply doing what they were genetically programmed to, same as us. I'm not going to go into a massive free will vs determinism debate here, but biological programming plays a massive part in human behavior. I would also posit that some point the future (not near term), SBI could be perfected and we could quite literally create synthetic minds. Its also important to keep in mind that males will still exist in such a world, so if you want to talk to another human, you'll have your bros.
 
I mean, incels.is is social media, is it not? How worse off would you or I be if this site didn't exist?
let me just say that among cucked normies, even the most stout of us would question himself and go crazy. this site was and is pivotal in reinforcing and developing my identity :feelzez:
And dating apps were never designed to make finding partners easier. They were scams from the beginning, ego boosting tools for women. That is there real true purpose.
I think for a year or two they actually worked somewhat. of course, them working isn't as profitable as keeping normies invested and bleeding them dry
 

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