Serious My response to "inceldom is just learned helplessness!"

[WastedPotential]

Sometimes in online discussion you will have normies tell you that your attitude or that inceldom in general is just a case of learned helplessness.

But what is learned helplessness? the reality is that the people that accuse you of being in this state 99% of the time don't even know themselves,
Simply put however it describes a phenomenon where you are faced with difficult sometimes even impossible scenarios that lead to you inevitably failing over and over. This causes you to stop trying because you believe there's no point in doing so. It also causes you to stop trying even if the circumstances change that make trying and succeeding more possible.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6TONVkJ3eI


TLW just a short summary of what i've described above, however I still recommend you to watch the video because I will be using it as an allegory.
In the video, you have two control groups in a classroom. They are seemingly given the same task of solving 3 anagrams. Both groups think they are given the same task sheet. The control group is given a sheet where the first two words are laughably easy; (1. bat 2. lemon) the experimental group however is given literally impossible words for their first two words; (1. Whirl 2. Slapstick) and the last word (3. Cinerama) is the same for both groups.

The teacher also publicly humiliates the experimental group by making the people to raise their hand when they solved it and using language to suggest that the words 1 and 2 are super easy.

Now the learned helplessness part comes into play for the experimental group for the third word, because most of them will at this point be very discouraged to even try or think it's possible, where as the control group won't have this at all relatively speaking, because they had an easy time.


This is where my comparison to real life and the blackpill starts; In real life the control group represents women, normies, chads etc.
The experimental group represents incels.
Except instead of the third word being possible, it's also impossible to solve. The normies and society at large tries to gaslight you into subscribing into this framework that we're all equal and that looks don't matter (aka that we're all given the same work sheets) except that's not the case.. They try to say "oh approaching women and getting a gf is easy!, just solve the first anagram bro!" even though we're given impossible words (being ugly, short etc.)

now ofcourse in real life it's a bit more nuanced and not as black and white as just two exclusive groups. There might be worksheets that have two impossible words but the last one being extremely difficult but still possible (these might represent nearcels for example) .

But the point i'm trying to make is that learned helplessness only applies to incels if it's genuinely possible for them to improooove, because most of the time.. it's not.

 

[atae]

Yes, it is learned helplessness. You learn this helplessness from how you are treated by society. You learn that nothing will change no matter how hard you try, since you’ve tried as hard as you can in the past.

 

[WastedPotential]

Something I also thought was interesting that when the teacher asked the students if they could give an example of learned helplessness the first example someone gave was a guy giving up on asking girls out. and this video is almost 2 decades old, just goes to show how dated this argument used by normies is...

 

[WastedPotential]

Yes, it is learned helplessness. You learn this helplessness from how you are treated by society. You learn that nothing will change no matter how hard you try, since you’ve tried as hard as you can in the past.

Except learned helplessness implies circumstances change for the better making improvement possible, but your past failures prevent you from trying.

For incels circumstances only get worse.

 

[FoidsEnshittifyAll]

its learned HOPELESSness more like it. because you learn it was never meant to begin.
ND+ugly+criple= true social and financial death sentence.. ..

 

[WastedPotential]

@AtrociousCitizen thoughts?

 

[parbate2025]

Sometimes in online discussion you will have normies tell you that your attitude or that inceldom in general is just a case of learned helplessness.

But what is learned helplessness? the reality is that the people that accuse you of being in this state 99% of the time don't even know themselves,
Simply put however it describes a phenomenon where you are faced with difficult sometimes even impossible scenarios that lead to you inevitably failing over and over. This causes you to stop trying because you believe there's no point in doing so. It also causes you to stop trying even if the circumstances change that make trying and succeeding more possible.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6TONVkJ3eI


TLW just a short summary of what i've described above, however I still recommend you to watch the video because I will be using it as an allegory.
In the video, you have two control groups in a classroom. They are seemingly given the same task of solving 3 anagrams. Both groups think they are given the same task sheet. The control group is given a sheet where the first two words are laughably easy; (1. bat 2. lemon) the experimental group however is given literally impossible words for their first two words; (1. Whirl 2. Slapstick) and the last word (3. Cinerama) is the same for both groups.

The teacher also publicly humiliates the experimental group by making the people to raise their hand when they solved it and using language to suggest that the words 1 and 2 are super easy.

Now the learned helplessness part comes into play for the experimental group for the third word, because most of them will at this point be very discouraged to even try or think it's possible, where as the control group won't have this at all relatively speaking, because they had an easy time.


This is where my comparison to real life and the blackpill starts; In real life the control group represents women, normies, chads etc.
The experimental group represents incels.
Except instead of the third word being possible, it's also impossible to solve. The normies and society at large tries to gaslight you into subscribing into this framework that we're all equal and that looks don't matter (aka that we're all given the same work sheets) except that's not the case.. They try to say "oh approaching women and getting a gf is easy!, just solve the first anagram bro!" even though we're given impossible words (being ugly, short etc.)

now ofcourse in real life it's a bit more nuanced and not as black and white as just two exclusive groups. There might be worksheets that have two impossible words but the last one being extremely difficult but still possible (these might represent nearcels for example) .

But the point i'm trying to make is that learned helplessness only applies to incels if it's genuinely possible for them to improooove, because most of the time.. it's not.

Great high iq post brocel

 

[AtrociousCitizen]

@AtrociousCitizen thoughts?

This is a good post. I would say learned helplessness does exist in some cases, and it can be observed very clearly in animals that have experienced abuse or have had certain conditions imposed upon them — such as the famous example of the elephant as a baby, where trainers tie its leg to a heavy chain or rope. The young elephant struggles, fights, and pulls for hours, but it lacks the physical strength to break the restraints. Eventually, the baby realizes that all its efforts are useless, and naturally internalizes the belief that it is trapped and accepts its powerlessness. Yet, even when the elephant matures to a level where it possesses more than enough strength to easily break the rope, the elephant simply stands there, merely because it remembers its early failures and falsely believes it cannot escape. This is, of course, fundamentally distinct from incels, and animal behavior cannot be cleanly extrapolated onto the human mind, as our circumstances never change in any meaningful way that would allow us to escape the miserable fate we were condemned to endure.

It’s not "learned helplessness" if the scenario is objectively horrible. If a guy is unattractive, short, or ND, no amount of "positive attitude" is going to magically change how female hypergamy filters him out on dating apps. Calling it learned helplessness is just a convenient way for normies to maintain their moral superiority and blame the victim for structural, genetic failures they will never have to experience. This is yet another example of their flawed idea of a meritocratic, just-world, that they often resort to in an attempt to shift the blame onto us.

Could you argue many incels internalize their failures? Obviously. But that is the inevitable consequence of endless negative reinforcement and repeated failure; when you constantly endure failure in life, and proper reward incentives are not established in your mind, you inevitably become fatalistic and pessimistic about life; I would even argue it is, generally speaking, better to accept the hopelessness of your situation than to endlessly pursue a dangling carrot because some morons told you that you should avoid accepting you are helpless. Sometimes, there is honor in knowing when to give up and not give a shit.

 

[erenyeager]

its learned HOPELESSness more like it. because you learn it was never meant to begin.
ND+ugly+criple= true social and financial death sentence.. ..

Normies will experience this soon as the economy gets worse and worse and soon 9 to 5s which they like for one reason will get replaced by ai. Then their dating pool will get more and more difficult as Gen Z and millennial women will all been ran thru and crazy themselves. Which leaves Gen Alpha and Gen Z to mingle but those niggas can’t read. This is what happens when you let epistein class cuck your life 15xxx and make his life a meme that they worship it

 

[WastedPotential]

This is a good post. I would say learned helplessness does exist in some cases, and it can be observed very clearly in animals that have experienced abuse or have had certain conditions imposed upon them — such as the famous example of the elephant as a baby, where trainers tie its leg to a heavy chain or rope. The young elephant struggles, fights, and pulls for hours, but it lacks the physical strength to break the restraints. Eventually, the baby realizes that all its efforts are useless, and naturally internalizes the belief that it is trapped and accepts its powerlessness. Yet, even when the elephant matures to a level where it possesses more than enough strength to easily break the rope, the elephant simply stands there, merely because it remembers its early failures and falsely believes it cannot escape. This is, of course, fundamentally distinct from incels, and animal behavior cannot be cleanly extrapolated onto the human mind, as our circumstances never change in any meaningful way that would allow us to escape the miserable fate we were condemned to endure.

Interesting I had not heard of this story before, I only remember the classic story of the dog being shocked in the box.
either way the idea is the same.

It’s not "learned helplessness" if the scenario is objectively horrible. If a guy is unattractive, short, or ND, no amount of "positive attitude" is going to magically change how female hypergamy filters him out on dating apps. Calling it learned helplessness is just a convenient way for normies to maintain their moral superiority and blame the victim for structural, genetic failures they will never have to experience. This is yet another example of their flawed idea of a meritocratic, just-world, that they often resort to in an attempt to shift the blame onto us.

Could you argue many incels internalize their failures? Obviously. But that is the inevitable consequence of endless negative reinforcement and repeated failure; when you constantly endure failure in life, and proper reward incentives are not established in your mind, you inevitably become fatalistic and pessimistic about life; I would even argue it is, generally speaking, better to accept the hopelessness of your situation than to endlessly pursue a dangling carrot because some morons told you that you should avoid accepting you are helpless. Sometimes, there is honor in knowing when to give up and not give a shit.

Yup, they just don't understand our circumstances. if they were in our shoes. they would come to realise our situation is hopeless.

 

[AutismKing]

It’s not "learned helplessness" if the scenario is objectively horrible. If a guy is unattractive, short, or ND, no amount of "positive attitude" is going to magically change how female hypergamy filters him out on dating apps

Have you given up completely then?

I can see how brutal dating apps are, so I don't see a point in them. People in the past lived in tight-knit communities, and arranged marriages were common; this made involuntary celibacy much rarer than it is today.

I imagine Jews as more communitarian like the Amish, but Israel may well be a very modern country after all. It probably is very difficult there as well.

Could you argue many incels internalize their failures? Obviously. But that is the inevitable consequence of endless negative reinforcement and repeated failure; when you constantly endure failure in life, and proper reward incentives are not established in your mind, you inevitably become fatalistic and pessimistic about life; I would even argue it is, generally speaking, better to accept the hopelessness of your situation than to endlessly pursue a dangling carrot because some morons told you that you should avoid accepting you are helpless. Sometimes, there is honor in knowing when to give up and not give a shit.

I see.
So better not to try at all?

The only way I see this road you mention ending is suicide.
But I don't think I need to tell you that; you can probably see it very clearly...

I can see how sullen I have become after so much suffering living in society. Perhaps you can understand that feeling.

Anyway, I can relate to your thoughts.

Edit:
You sound ND from your posts and your experiences with mental health professionals. I never see NT people be well-spoken in public forums

 

[AtrociousCitizen]

Have you given up completely then?

It's fair to say I have, although my cut-off date has not arrived yet, so maybe there is a faint part of me that still holds out hope.

I can see how brutal dating apps are, so I don't see a point in them. People in the past lived in tight-knit communities, and arranged marriages were common; this made involuntary celibacy much rarer than it is today.

Yep. These apps are completely fruitless for men who do not meet the cartoonishly high threshold that women have set.

I imagine Jews as more communitarian like the Amish, but Israel may well be a very modern country after all. It probably is very difficult there as well.

It depends on the community. There are religious Jews who still have relatively tighter-knit communities, as well as arranged marriages and decent norms around dating. Secular Jews, however, are not much different in their convictions and behavior than individuals in other Western countries, even if there are slight variations.

I see.
So better not to try at all?

In my position, I simply do not see the point; all the effort I’ve expended has been futile, and I now understand that I cannot win this uphill battle.

The only way I see this road you mention ending is suicide.
But I don't think I need to tell you that; you can probably see it very clearly...

Unfortunately, it is. I do intend to die in a more glorious manner, but it would still be a suicidal act nonetheless; there is very little that life has to offer in my current position.

I can see how sullen I have become after so much suffering living in society. Perhaps you can understand that feeling.

I do. I am deeply disillusioned with the world and its inhabitants.

Edit:
You sound ND from your posts and your experiences with mental health professionals. I never see NT people be well-spoken in public forums

I mostly likely am ND, but not officially diagnosed at the moment.

 

[4sez]

Unfortunately, it is. I do intend to die in a more glorious manner, but it would still be a suicidal act nonetheless; there is very little that life has to offer in my current position.

 

[AutismKing]

It's fair to say I have, although my cut-off date has not arrived yet, so maybe there is a faint part of me that still holds out hope.

I see.
I may know next to nothing about you, but I wish you would hold on to that hope.

Yep. These apps are completely fruitless for men who do not meet the cartoonishly high threshold that women have set.

It depends on the community. There are religious Jews who still have relatively tighter-knit communities, as well as arranged marriages and decent norms around dating. Secular Jews, however, are not much different in their convictions and behavior than individuals in other Western countries, even if there are slight variations.

I see.

In my position, I simply do not see the point; all the effort I’ve expended has been futile, and I now understand that I cannot win this uphill battle.

It really feels like an uphill battle, doesn't it?
I read some of your posts and you seem well-spoken, articulate, and open to discussion. I value those traits; I hope you recognize those qualities in you.

I will read some of your threads as I haven't seen many. You seem like one of the more interesting users of this site.

Also, you seem to be in a very desolate state, just like I am...

Unfortunately, it is. I do intend to die in a more glorious manner, but it would still be a suicidal act nonetheless; there is very little that life has to offer in my current position.

I see...
"[G]lorious"... an interesting choice of word, I might say.

I am aware some of your posts allude to this, but I am not going to poke you on it since we are in a public section of the forum.

You had told me you were a NEET, so I can understand your hopelessness.
You seem intelligent. I wonder if you have considered pursuing higher education; it could give you a greater sense of meaning and direction in your life.

But yeah, I would not advise you to do anything extreme or irreversible. I am afraid you may do things you may regret... just saying.
From what I know, you are about my age after all.

Neither suicide nor "retribution" is what I would wish for anyone here.

I do. I am deeply disillusioned with the world and its inhabitants.

I feel you.
I am disillusioned as well.

I mostly likely am ND, but not officially diagnosed at the moment.

I see.
You had told me about mental health services stonewalling you. I can relate to that.
I do think it is still something worth pursuing though. I am unusually critical of Psychology and Psychiatry, but sometimes one needs to use the resources available to them, you know... even if they are imperfect.

You seem like an interesting user; I will set aside some time to read your thoughts when I am able.
You also inspire the grammarcel in me to come out, a rare sight.