It's Over My only friend, who is like a sister to me, left me

[Doesitmatter?]

Play stupid games win stupid prizes, deserved for thinking any kind of plotnic relationship would workout with women as a sub 5

 

[ReverseSexismisReal]

Then why she's ditching you and destroys years of friendship for such a small petty reason, as if she wanted an excuse. Also notice how you can't say anything even remotely bad about women, that's crazy. It's tyranny to me.

Don't make me sound like some programmed, indoctrinated, woke, normie libtard. I know that women are cruel, arrogant and enjoy hurting non-Chads like a sub5 fatcel like me, because it gives them an immense ego boost. I also know that if I was Chad she would never leave me. I am aware of all that. I just don't want to and won't talk bad about her in particular.

 

[ReverseSexismisReal]

May your sister rest in peace.

Thank you brocel. You're the only one who ever said that here.

Never let your guard down on foids, brocel, you are only bound to get hurt.

I should have not forgotten. I actually learned this, but let my emotions get in the way. This time I will never forget.

 

[ReverseSexismisReal]

The dame, like you, sought comfort in commiseration and sympathy; both of which necessitate companionship and confessed weakness. However, the weakness of a woman becomes her greatest strength once mendacious gestures and airs affect the conscience of a man. Her phase in the psych-ward was another desperate plea for recognition, yet the recognition she received from you was unsatisfactory thus she washed her hands of it.

Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, Freud, and Benatar are correct about women and social reactions to their plight.

Why was it unsatisfactory? Do you have an idea? Is it related to the mendacity that you mentioned?
Can you also elaborate on those philosophers' stances on women? I'm not familiar and would like to learn.

 

[ReverseSexismisReal]

Your "little sister" has been tied to a dining table or chair and been fucked in every hole by a man taller and bigger dick than you

She says she doesn't have friends and she even said that she is "lonely as fuck". Of course, not believable at all, thinking that she's a girl. It's just impossible for a girl not to have any friends in my mind. Even just existing is enough for them to be able to have friends considering that all women live the life in tutorial mode. But I let my emotions for her cloud my judgement, so I believed her. Emotions turn men into weak-ass pussies, like it did with me, and all women are aware of that.

 

[ReverseSexismisReal]

shameful cuck imagine trusting toilets

Yes, I accept. It was very shameful of me.

 

[Kamanbert]

Don't make me sound like some programmed, indoctrinated, woke, normie libtard. I know that women are cruel, arrogant and enjoy hurting non-Chads like a sub5 fatcel like me, because it gives them an immense ego boost. I also know that if I was Chad she would never leave me. I am aware of all that. I just don't want to and won't bad about her in particular.

I get it that you want to stay measured but dude you said yourself that she's "good hearted" and "not arrogant" so you're being kinda schizo her feminine nature, despite her good character, ended up coming to the surface and she abused you.

Btw i relate to your story cause the only friend i had in like almost 20 years now was a lesbian foid but she just ditched me the same. They're so callous and cold towards us.

 

[Kamanbert]

Being friend with a woman is so gay. Never again

 

[ReverseSexismisReal]

I get it that you want to stay measured but dude you said yourself that she's "good hearted" and "not arrogant" so you're being kinda schizo her feminine nature, despite her good character, ended up coming to the surface and she abused you.

She really hurt me brocel.
Also I'm a diagnosed schizo anyway, so maybe makes sense that I act like one?

Btw i relate to your story cause the only friend i had in like almost 20 years now was a lesbian foid but she just ditched me the same. They're so callous and cold towards us.

Damn, I'm sorry about your experience brocel.
Yes, they are all very callous and merciless and cold.

Being friend with a woman is so gay. Never again

Well said. It turned me into an emotional, weak-ass pussy. Never again, brocel.

 

[ReverseSexismisReal]

Play stupid games win stupid prizes, deserved for thinking any kind of plotnic relationship would workout with women as a sub 5

Yeah, I totally deserved it. It was stupid of me to think that looks are irrelevant in normal friendships. I was naive and stupid. Looks are literally everything in every single human experience. They determine everything. I forgot that fact because I let my emotions for her cloud my judgement.

 

[Kamanbert]

Also I'm a diagnosed schizo anyway, so maybe makes sense that I act like one?

It all makes sense now, based schizocel tbh

Well said. It turned me into an emotional, weak-ass pussy. Never again, brocel.

Shame on us

 

[ReverseSexismisReal]

Women are compulsive liars. They say they want a man who is nice to them but that is the easiest way to lose a woman.

Decades ago, when I was a bluepilled idiot, a girl who I asked out rejected me by saying: "You're too nice". I know that "nice" is the last thing a girl likes.

 

[fructose]

I mean you knew about female nature but still got upset when she left? its just the world dude, if you were chad she would still be talking to you rn. Sucks to suck, as always.

 

[ReverseSexismisReal]

Fuck you damn gray

What did I ever do to you? Also, you're gray too.

 

[UglyDumbass]

Please don't flame brocels, I'm drunk af and crying like a little bitch because of my loneliness.

All my life I've been lonely, then I had a little sister and she became my best and only friend, then she died, and I've never had a friend or any other person who cared about me after that. I'm 30+, I literally was alone all my life No family, no friends. But didn't really mind. Was used to it.

Then after a roping attempt, I ended up in this closed mental facility, where I self-harmed every single day. I caused unbelievable problems for the doctors as I went in these nightmare-like self-harm frenzies. I would never be able to leave there.

Then this girl came as a patient in this closed mental facility, she was a little girl (obviously she is an adult, I just call her "little girl" in an endearing way, because she is just little compared to me, since I'm oldcel).

She immediately reminded me of my sister because if my sister was alive, she would be her age.

So, me, a guy who hates people and feels happiness in their misery and sadness (especially foids), went to this sad-looking, crying girl, and started a conversation. And we became friends pretty quickly. She became my first friend in like over 5 years, but even beyond that, she became a little sister to me. I loved her like my own family, and it really felt that way too. Those weren't just empty words.

For the last few years, I was very cold before I met her. I hated everyone, talked shit to them, was a very hateful person. Made sure they all knew I didn't want anything to do with them, especially foids. So, after meeting her, I changed (again), and went back to my roots, and became an emotional person who cared about her, and eventually I froze my account here and started the deletion process, because this forum reminded me of my previous personality full of hatred.

Well, long story short, she left me. She didn't like something I said, and called me sexist and said I "said she was inferior because she was a girl", which was not the case. I just commented on something she said and I didn't agree, and asked "why must it be like this, because you're a girl?", and this was actually to refer to what she said to me before:. She said to me before: "You insist a lot. When a girl says no, it's not good to keep insisting"... I was referring to that, because I didn't understand what she meant and why it is especially bad to insist when the person is a girl. I genuinely didn't understand. But she didn't believe me, and stopped talking to me. Of course that wasn't the only thing I did during our arguments, but this was like the final nail for her, I think. I don't think it was a justified reason to leave me. Really broke my heart. Still does.

So, now, I've not been eating anything since that happened, which is over a week, I think. Can't remember anything, because the only thing I do is keep drinking alcohol and self-harm. Has anyone played Disco Elysium? I feel like the protagonist in that game, trying to give myself amnesia by drinking a shit ton of. Will it work?

She said she will come with me to my appointment with my therapist next week, but she's not talking to me anymore, she's not even answering simple questions, and it really hurts. We used to play video games every day. I'm literally begging her to play, but no, she is not playing.

I couldn't believe anyway that I could have such a beautiful relationship like I had with her, felt like a dream and not something like I would be able to achieve. I was proud of myself. But seems I couldn't achieve it anyway. I messed up.

Please don't talk bad about her brocels. She is a very good person. Not like any other foid I knew. She is not arrogant like your run-of-the-mill foid. She is really good hearted.

Call me simp, I don't care, it's the truth.

Anyway, and now I'm back here.

Just wanted to share.

why do you bother being friends with a foid. You either get to be in a relationship with them or not

 

[ReverseSexismisReal]

It all makes sense now, based schizocel tbh

Thanks

Shame on us

I think the important thing is to learn our lessons and move on. It seems you were able to do that, so it's still good, I would say.

 

[ReverseSexismisReal]

I mean you knew about female nature but still got upset when she left?

I didn't think she was like other girls. Because she was always nice to me. Since nobody was ever nice to me, that caught me off guard. I thought she was an exception. I didn't know about AWALT.

its just the world dude, if you were chad she would still be talking to you rn.

So true. I truly believe that.

 

[ReverseSexismisReal]

why do you bother being friends with a foid. You either get to be in a relationship with them or not

I didn't think she was like other girls. Because she was always nice to me. Since nobody was ever nice to me, that caught me off guard. I thought she was an exception. I didn't know about AWALT.

 

[ReverseSexismisReal]

why do you bother being friends with a foid. You either get to be in a relationship with them or not

Forgot to ask before, but do you mean that being normal friends with a foid is impossible? Is it either romantic relationship or nothing? Do you have an explanation as to why?

 

[UglyDumbass]

Forgot to ask before, but do you mean that being normal friends with a foid is impossible? Is it either romantic relationship or nothing? Do you have an explanation as to why?

As a incel no you can’t be friends with anyone. Remember friends are people you hang out with and talk too outside of school or work as well. No your friends isnt ur classmate that you spoke too for an hour or 2. As an incel most people dont wanna hang with you except true loners. If you’re only ugly then you might have a chance of making friends but you’ll be called ugly alot and ghosted etc. Why? Cuz that’s how the world is. The world only cares about being ontop of the social hierarchy. The ugly and autistic people are always in the bottom. Why do you think they’re always alone. You’ll never have any romance as a incel. For all my years i seen autistics + uglies left to dust always laughed at and treated like shit and sitting alone and being filmed. They’re never taken seriously

 

[ReverseSexismisReal]

As a incel no you can’t be friends with anyone. Remember friends are people you hang out with and talk too outside of school or work as well. No your friends isnt ur classmate that you spoke too for an hour or 2. As an incel most people dont wanna hang with you except true loners. If you’re only ugly then you might have a chance of making friends but you’ll be called ugly alot and ghosted etc. Why? Cuz that’s how the world is. The world only cares about being ontop of the social hierarchy. The ugly and autistic people are always in the bottom. Why do you think they’re always alone. You’ll never have any romance as a incel. For all my years i seen autistics + uglies left to dust always laughed at and treated like shit and sitting alone and being filmed. They’re never taken seriously

So, what you're saying is that if you're an NT incel whose only problem is being ugly, then it can work, but even then you'll get ghosted and be treated like shit.

If you're both non-NT and ugly, then it will never work.

Is that what you're saying?

But we've been friends for almost a year now. I'm both non-NT and ugly, and it worked alright until now. She never ghosted me until now and we spend almost every day together.

It's true that she left me and she's gone now, but then how did it work until now? That's what I can't understand.

 

[cripplecel]

I did that with a girl years ago. Obsessing like you are.

At the end of the day they are shallow & uninteresting beings. And no “friendship” will work with them if you are ugly. Best to move on and stop thinking about this foid, and to not do this again so a foid is not rent free in your mind.

 

[UglyDumbass]

So, what you're saying is that if you're an NT incel whose only problem is being ugly, then it can work, but even then you'll get ghosted and be treated like shit.

If you're both non-NT and ugly, then it will never work.

Is that what you're saying?

But we've been friends for almost a year now. I'm both non-NT and ugly, and it worked alright until now. She never ghosted me until now and we spend almost every day together.

It's true that she left me and she's gone now, but then how did it work until now? That's what I can't understand.

no. I said if you’re not autistic but youre ugly then you can get friends easily cuz you can easily make jokes. You can’t have romance at all tho. You’ll always be rejected. So what if she didn’t ghost you. She probably spoke badly about you behind your back and when her friends ask if she likes you they probably say “ewwww no he is ugly” . She probably was using you or loved the attention you gave or pitied you like a puppy or used you as a slave Stop being a cuck stop bowing down to them like normfags

 

[ReverseSexismisReal]

no. I said if you’re not autistic but youre ugly then you can get friends easily cuz you can easily make jokes. You can’t have romance at all tho. You’ll always be rejected.

Ahhh, I see. Yeah, that makes sense. You just reminded me how she always called my jokes lame and openly hated them. But then there was this another extremely self-confident normie guy who we were talking to together, and he told the exact same joke that I did. And she laughed and she found it so funny. That should have rung my alarm bells but no, I was such a stupid naive dumbass.

So what if she didn’t ghost you. She probably spoke badly about you behind your back and when her friends ask if she likes you they probably say “ewwww no he is ugly” . She probably was using you or loved the attention you gave or pitied you like a puppy or used you as a slave

Damn, I never even thought of that. Really hurts to think. But you're probably right, no reason to deny it and keep being delusional.

Stop being a cuck stop bowing down to them like normfags

Yeah, I'm not a normfag, so gotta stop acting like one. Thanks for the pep-talk brocel.

 

[Friezacel]

Please don't talk bad about her brocels. She is a very good person. Not like any other foid I knew. She is not arrogant like your run-of-the-mill foid. She is really good hearted.

*dies from soy*

@KillNiggers

 

[Fat Link]

Please don't flame brocels, I'm drunk af and crying like a little bitch because of my loneliness.

All my life I've been lonely, then I had a little sister and she became my best and only friend, then she died, and I've never had a friend or any other person who cared about me after that. I'm 30+, I literally was alone all my life No family, no friends. But didn't really mind. Was used to it.

Then after a roping attempt, I ended up in this closed mental facility, where I self-harmed every single day. I caused unbelievable problems for the doctors as I went in these nightmare-like self-harm frenzies. I would never be able to leave there.

Then this girl came as a patient in this closed mental facility, she was a little girl (obviously she is an adult, I just call her "little girl" in an endearing way, because she is just little compared to me, since I'm oldcel).

She immediately reminded me of my sister because if my sister was alive, she would be her age.

So, me, a guy who hates people and feels happiness in their misery and sadness (especially foids), went to this sad-looking, crying girl, and started a conversation. And we became friends pretty quickly. She became my first friend in like over 5 years, but even beyond that, she became a little sister to me. I loved her like my own family, and it really felt that way too. Those weren't just empty words.

For the last few years, I was very cold before I met her. I hated everyone, talked shit to them, was a very hateful person. Made sure they all knew I didn't want anything to do with them, especially foids. So, after meeting her, I changed (again), and went back to my roots, and became an emotional person who cared about her, and eventually I froze my account here and started the deletion process, because this forum reminded me of my previous personality full of hatred.

Well, long story short, she left me. She didn't like something I said, and called me sexist and said I "said she was inferior because she was a girl", which was not the case. I just commented on something she said and I didn't agree, and asked "why must it be like this, because you're a girl?", and this was actually to refer to what she said to me before:. She said to me before: "You insist a lot. When a girl says no, it's not good to keep insisting"... I was referring to that, because I didn't understand what she meant and why it is especially bad to insist when the person is a girl. I genuinely didn't understand. But she didn't believe me, and stopped talking to me. Of course that wasn't the only thing I did during our arguments, but this was like the final nail for her, I think. I don't think it was a justified reason to leave me. Really broke my heart. Still does.

So, now, I've not been eating anything since that happened, which is over a week, I think. Can't remember anything, because the only thing I do is keep drinking alcohol and self-harm. Has anyone played Disco Elysium? I feel like the protagonist in that game, trying to give myself amnesia by drinking a shit ton of. Will it work?

She said she will come with me to my appointment with my therapist next week, but she's not talking to me anymore, she's not even answering simple questions, and it really hurts. We used to play video games every day. I'm literally begging her to play, but no, she is not playing.

I couldn't believe anyway that I could have such a beautiful relationship like I had with her, felt like a dream and not something like I would be able to achieve. I was proud of myself. But seems I couldn't achieve it anyway. I messed up.

Please don't talk bad about her brocels. She is a very good person. Not like any other foid I knew. She is not arrogant like your run-of-the-mill foid. She is really good hearted.

Call me simp, I don't care, it's the truth.

Anyway, and now I'm back here.

Just wanted to share.

If she was a truly good person she would be open to reconciliation with you.

In anycase it sadly all boils down to this:

1. You were desperately lonely.

2. You made the mistake of thinking you could reason with a woman as though she was a guy and truly logical. Well she’s not a guy and women are not logical in either friendships or relationships. You can only not walk on eggshells even with non cluster b disordered women as a low value male by being or acting like a codependent and letting them walk all over you so that you don’t upset them so that they turn on you as she did.

You see there is ALWAYS a power imbalance in every male/female relationship or friendship and if you’re not Chad don’t think you can ever get away with saying certain shit or trying to have any kind of a truly serious and in-depth and insightful conversation with them. You can’t. Accept it and if such an opportunity ever arises for you again find out what the girl’s political views are first (probably leftist pro LBGTQ faggot shit) and just pretend those views are yours as well and tell her whatever she wants to hear because your goal as a low value and lonely man is to simply have ANY type of female attention and companionship that you can get as THAT not having stupid ass boring political discussions with them is what you’re trying to extract from them for COMFORT.

Save the boring SERIOUS faggoty political dogshit conversations for us.

3. You met her at a fucking mental facility dude. What in the fuck did you expect? Of course she’s not exactly going to be a stable, solid and trustworthy reliable friend that’s going to stick with you through thick and thin.

 

[BuFFooN]

crying like a little bitch

kawaii Nigga

 

[ReverseSexismisReal]

You see there is ALWAYS a power imbalance in every male/female relationship or friendship and if you’re not Chad don’t think you can ever get away with saying certain shit or trying to have any kind of a truly serious and in-depth and insightful conversation with them. You can’t. Accept it and if such an opportunity ever arises for you again find out what the girl’s political views are first (probably leftist pro LBGTQ faggot shit) and just pretend those views are yours as well and tell her whatever she wants to hear because your goal as a low value and lonely man is to simply have ANY type of female attention and companionship that you can get as THAT not having stupid ass boring political discussions with them is what you’re trying to extract from them for COMFORT.

Damn, thanks for the analysis, Modcel. Those are very wise words.

The stupid thing is, I even knew her political views. She's a leftist liberal as you correctly guessed. And I thought I share with her my political views, too, because she told me I can share anything with her, so I started thinking that maybe such opinions don't matter because they're not what define our friendship. Kek...

It was a big mistake. She even used those against me in some arguments. When she accused me of being sexist, she used examples like me liking Donald Trump, for instance.

As you can see, I was so naive and stupid. I will remember your advice. Thanks.

Save the boring SERIOUS faggoty political dogshit conversations for us.

Thanks, will do Modcel

 

[ReverseSexismisReal]

kawaii Nigga

Thanks my nigga. Your pfp is kawaii, too.

 

[turbosperg]

asked "why must it be like this, because you're a girl?", and this was actually to refer to what she said to me before:. She said to me before: "You insist a lot. When a girl says no, it's not good to keep insisting"... I was referring to that, because I didn't understand what she meant and why it is especially bad to insist when the person is a girl.

This is just another typical foid that can't sustain ANY non-trivial conversation, that is, conversations that include open-ended questions about non-immediate objects (why? How?).

It was your own loneliness that played a trick in your mind and got you believing that you've found a friend. This is all but friendship. This is just another attention-seeking foid using you as emotional tampon, and then discarding you.

You need male friends, only men can be friends. Foids have no use for friendship, this concept doesn't even stick with them, it's an alien idea.

 

[UglyDumbass]

Ahhh, I see. Yeah, that makes sense. You just reminded me how she always called my jokes lame and openly hated them. But then there was this another extremely self-confident normie guy who we were talking to together, and he told the exact same joke that I did. And she laughed and she found it so funny. That should have rung my alarm bells but no, I was such a stupid naive dumbass.

same happened to me in middle school. don’t bother jestermaxcing if ugly i guess. You also gotta know that we are born to be hated. We aren’t meant to be loved or cared about.

Damn, I never even thought of that. Really hurts to think. But you're probably right, no reason to deny it and keep being delusional.

Yeah, I'm not a normfag, so gotta stop acting like one. Thanks for the pep-talk brocel.

Yeah it hurts but you just gotta remember that it’s not worth wasting ur energy on people who don’t give a shit about you

 

[ReverseSexismisReal]

It was your own loneliness that played a trick in your mind and got you believing that you've found a friend.

You summarized it very well. I couldn't have worded it better, myself.

You need male friends, only men can be friends.

I don't think I need any more friends at this point. I simply give up. This forum is the closest thing I have to a friend, where I can share like this. But I'll still remember your advice.

 

[nowiff]

That's life, keep moving.

Forget about people that treat you like shit, it's hard but genuinely it's not worth your time.

 

[Beggar]

Why was it unsatisfactory?

It's tentative, but I have some potential reasons: you became clingy, she wants friends closer to her age, she tried to move past her time in the ward and you were an incessant reminder of it, her friends and family convinced her to cut you off out of concern. I could think of a few more, the worst of all is that she was always disgusted by you and sought only instant gratification.

Do you have an idea?

Many little ideas and a big idea.

Is it related to the mendacity that you mentioned?

Somewhat. It's not my intention to sound utilitarian, but she was using you just as we use each other to maintain "societal optimism", the forced, ostensible synthesis of conduct in obedience to an ideal state of affairs; it's dishonest and ultimately leads to degeneration.

A good example of this, and this will sound ridiculous, would be Father Elijah's attempts at cracking the Sierra Madre casino and his belief in the collar-enforced optimization of human behavior (Super-Ego and Master Morality); or, alternatively, the proclivity of domesticated animals to act upon instinct (Id or Slave Morality).

Can you also elaborate on those philosophers' stances on women? I'm not familiar and would like to learn.

I'd rather not, fetching quotes and summarizing ideas is time-consuming.

 

[Morphine]

shameful cuck

 

[ReverseSexismisReal]

You also gotta know that we are born to be hated. We aren’t meant to be loved or cared about.

Ironic that although my life is a constant reminder of this, I chose to forget it wilfully. I'll remember it next time.

 

[ReverseSexismisReal]

It's tentative, but I have some potential reasons: you became clingy, she wants friends closer to her age, she tried to move past her time in the ward and you were an incessant reminder of it, her friends and family convinced her to cut you off out of concern. I could think of a few more, the worst of all is that she was always disgusted by you and sought only instant gratification.

Thanks for this, you gave me a lot of ideas and I'm pretty sure one or more of the things you mentioned are her reasons for leaving me.

 

[ReverseSexismisReal]

Somewhat. It's not my intention to sound utilitarian, but she was using you just as we use each other to maintain "societal optimism", the forced, ostensible synthesis of conduct in obedience to an ideal state of affairs; it's dishonest and ultimately leads to degeneration.

Life is a negotiation. We all want, we all give to get what we want.

 

[NeverGetUp]

Please don't talk bad about her brocels. She is a very good person. Not like any other foid I knew. She is not arrogant like your run-of-the-mill foid. She is really good hearted.

 

[ReverseSexismisReal]

Aren't you the guy who didn't have patience to read this yesterday? Thanks for reading now.

 

[NeverGetUp]

Aren't you the guy who didn't have patience to read this yesterday? Thanks for reading now.

I skimmed through it and I can tell you are a simp

 

[lazy_gamer_423]

If you met her in a mental hospital it could explain her crazy behavior.

I dont think anyone can actually be friends with a foid because they are untrustworthy, entitled pieces of shit

 

[Beggar]

Life is a negotiation. We all want, we all give to get what we want.

Negotiations end with potentially uncomfortable compromises, and negotiation power is relative to the wants of others contrasted against our own; however, the absolute measure of negotiation resides in the conditions that premediate it. In your case, you had no power and no compromises to offer. Perhaps the correlation is causation in this instance, you had no power because you lacked something equally coveted to surrender.

 

[ReverseSexismisReal]

Negotiations end with potentially uncomfortable compromises, and negotiation power is relative to the wants of others contrasted against our own; however, the absolute measure of negotiation resides in the conditions that premediate it. In your case, you had no power and no compromises to offer. Perhaps the correlation is causation in this instance, you had no power because you lacked something equally coveted to surrender.

Can it also not be argued that a significant reason for me not having power is that I'm not Chad, that I'm non-NT and that I'm ugly? Sometimes such arguments feel too shallow and easy to postulate, but it also feels stupid not to learn from every single type of same mistake and keep being naive about it.

 

[Beggar]

I'm not Chad, that I'm non-NT and that I'm ugly

Those are conditions that premediate the "exchange", so yes. Knowing the limitations of your circumstances isn't conducive to perpetual folly or ignorance.

 

[SoycuckGodOfReddit]

I skimmed through it and I can tell you are a simp

 

[ReverseSexismisReal]

Has anyone played Disco Elysium? I feel like the protagonist in that game, trying to give myself amnesia by drinking a shit ton of. Will it work?

Why did nobody answer this out of all the people who replied?

 

[notcracklord]

You made the mistake of assuming foids won't make the problem all about them after a while.

 

[notcracklord]

Why did nobody answer this out of all the people who replied?

i have not played it.

 

[Apex.Koala]

You made the mistake of assuming foids won't make the problem all about them after a while.