Marxism #15. On The Jewish Question

[Caesercel]

In his text "The Jewish Question" , philosopher Bruno Bauer argues that it is wrong and contradictory for jews to seek political emancipation and rights AS jews because the primary source of their oppression in Christian europe is religion itself. So the jew cannot be truly free as long as he remains a jew, which is in contradiction with him becoming a "citizen" with civil rights.

Bauer's solution to this is the abolition of religion itself. Which would free both the Christian and the jew from slavery of the religious State. Further , his approach to achieving this involves abolition of religion from the political life of the state i.e. the seperation of church and state. Since, to him, a Christian/jew who does not practice their religion when interacting with State is no Christian/jew at all.

Marx in his work, "On the Jewish Question" criticises this thesis on the flowing grounds.

1. The jewish exclusivity of the jew(god's chosen people) does not contradict him from holding civil rights because those civil rights only give freedom to man as an isolated alienated individual. NOT as a member of a national community. Infact it guarantees the individual liberty to practice one's religion. So under the condition of ALIENATION, the jew can be as jewish as he wants, hate goyim and yet retain civil rights.
2. The example of America shows that emancipation of state from religion does not cause emancipation of society from religion. Since Americans are highly religious. Infact, according to Marx, the secular State does not exist in opposition to religion but reaffirms it.

 

[Caesercel]

But Marx takes this one step further and generalised the main point. Removing religion from the State does not solve religion in society because political emancipation and formal rights IN GENERAL do not bring about true human emancipation. And again this is because these formal rights can only free the alienated individual man and not man as a member of the society/community.

Marx concludes this by claiming that abolishing Judaism as a religion achieves nothing because the base conditions that cause the particular secular nature of the jew still remain and are in fact expanding. Now the whole of Christian europe has become jewish in it's nature. And therefore abolishing Judaism as a religion is not a solution but we must abolish the base condition behind the jewish nature in it's secular form. And that will achieve true emancipation of both jews and the rest of society from Judaism.

(In case anyone didn't get it , he is using secular "Judaism" as a euphemism for Capitalism which manifests itself specifically in the religious jew but also generally in the nature of the white Christian european under capitalism)

 

[cathuluelitist]

Marx is correct here but replacing that system with a state-enforced, materialistic hellscape is much worse.

 

[Caesercel]

Marx is correct here but replacing that system with a state-enforced, materialistic hellscape is much worse.

This was his replacement

Only when the real, individual man re-absorbs in himself the abstract citizen, and as an individual human being has become a species-being in his everyday life, in his particular work, and in his particular situation, only when man has recognized and organized his “own powers” as social powers, and, consequently, no longer separates social power from himself in the shape of political power, only then will human emancipation have been accomplished.

 

[cathuluelitist]

Notice how whenever this has been attempted along these lines, you just get the total state, all you're doing is handing the state (or the party in this case maybe) absolute control over every aspect of human life which doesn’t work as shown in its failure at every point in history

 

[Caesercel]

Notice how whenever this has been attempted along these lines, you just get the total state, all you're doing is handing the state (or the party in this case maybe) absolute control over every aspect of human life which doesn’t work as shown in its failure at every point in history

Lol. They were right. It really is like a pre-installed tape recorded speech that just plays itself automatically

 

[cathuluelitist]

Lol. They were right. It really is like a pre-installed tape recorded speech that just plays itself automatically

Hmm

 

[cathuluelitist]

Lol. They were right. It really is like a pre-installed tape recorded speech that just plays itself automatically

The Right?

 

[cathuluelitist]

The right? The left being right about the Right?

 

[Caesercel]

The Right?

Forget about it.

 

[cathuluelitist]

Forget about it.

You said a group of people were right about a pre-recorded tape being played, are you talking about me?

 

[cathuluelitist]

You said a group of people were right about a pre-recorded tape being played, are you talking about me?

Are you trying to say I'm a fed?

 

[INVERTER]

Marx is correct here but replacing that system with a state-enforced, materialistic hellscape is much worse.

Your description could be used to describe many capitalist countries at war

There is nothing about socialism that creates conditions for authoritarianism.

Take America today:
Massive government spending over a trillion of the military (mostly ends up in a few oligopoly corporations) and bases all over the world. World police

Government surveils you and God only knows what some of these corporations are doing

Largest prison population

All radical orgs infiltrated with feds

And this is all while maintaining a monopoly on violence and virtually no threats. Compare to the USSR which was constantly under existential threat

 

[literallyretarded]

In his text "The Jewish Question" , philosopher Bruno Bauer argues that it is wrong and contradictory for jews to seek political emancipation and rights AS jews because the primary source of their oppression in Christian europe is religion itself. So the jew cannot be truly free as long as he remains a jew, which is in contradiction with him becoming a "citizen" with civil rights.

Bauer's solution to this is the abolition of religion itself. Which would free both the Christian and the jew from slavery of the religious State. Further , his approach to achieving this involves abolition of religion from the political life of the state i.e. the seperation of church and state. Since, to him, a Christian/jew who does not practice their religion when interacting with State is no Christian/jew at all.

Marx in his work, "On the Jewish Question" criticises this thesis on the flowing grounds.

1. The jewish exclusivity of the jew(god's chosen people) does not contradict him from holding civil rights because those civil rights only give freedom to man as an isolated alienated individual. NOT as a member of a national community. Infact it guarantees the individual liberty to practice one's religion. So under the condition of ALIENATION, the jew can be as jewish as he wants, hate goyim and yet retain civil rights.
2. The example of America shows that emancipation of state from religion does not cause emancipation of society from religion. Since Americans are highly religious. Infact, according to Marx, the secular State does not exist in opposition to religion but reaffirms it.

kys communist shitskin the only answer to the jewish question is putting them in gas chambers hope you enjoy sucking Israel's dick jeet bitch

 

[Caesercel]

kys communist shitskin the only answer to the jewish question is putting them in gas chambers hope you enjoy sucking Israel's dick jeet bitch

This post is a retrospective proof that Marx was right on this topic. The State is more secular than it ever was, yet we have posts like these.

 

[literallyretarded]

This post is a retrospective proof that Marx was right on this topic. The State is more secular than it ever was, yet we have posts like these.

marx was not not right on anything kys kike worshiper

 

[hunter x atomics]

Marx was jewish himself of course he has a vested interest in protecting his own cultural identity there's an inherit bias that i think you failed to mention.
but to provide my two scents on the whole thing. i dont truly believe there can ever be a true separation of the church or the state, when the church is removed all that occurs is whatever governmental body that is currently in existence takes up the role of the church amongst it's many other roles(a statement that ill concede marx does acknowledge and seems to be a fan of) generally both facists and commies tend to take up hyper mythical or religious terminology when referring to their theories. facists are a lot more mask off about it but the commies do it in there subtle ways mainly the whole borderline prophecy that capitalism must self collapse. which i state is a prophecy and not an economic theory since marx wasnt an economist he was playwrite and philospher who didnt exactly crunch the numbers to make this prediction

 

[Caesercel]

Marx was jewish himself of course he has a vested interest in protecting his own cultural identity there's an inherit bias that i think you failed to mention.

If anything, the entire text is blatantly anti-Semitic. Marx would've been cancelled in a second had he published this today.

but to provide my two scents on the whole thing. i dont truly believe there can ever be a true separation of the church or the state, when the church is removed all that occurs is whatever governmental body that is currently in existence takes up the role of the church amongst it's many other roles(a statement that ill concede marx does acknowledge and seems to be a fan of) generally both facists and commies tend to take up hyper mythical or religious terminology when referring to their theories.

A point could be made that any ideology that replaces religion will always emulate the same religion it replaced as long as the socio-economic base is still intact. Though in case of both fascists and commies the socio economic base had shifted somewhat and hence neither truly emulated Christianity. (though both did it just enough to hate jews despite their atheism, thus proving Marx right)

the whole borderline prophecy that capitalism must self collapse. which i state is a prophecy and not an economic theory since marx wasnt an economist he was playwrite and philospher who didnt exactly crunch the numbers to make this prediction

I wouldn't say it's an economic theory but rather a socio-scientific one. Built on the idea of historical materialism.

 

[hunter x atomics]

Though in case of both fascists and commies the socio economic base had shifted somewhat and hence neither truly emulated Christianity. (though both did it just enough to hate jews despite their atheism, thus proving Marx right)

Generally i would disagree with you having to specify on Christianity i get why since it is the largest religion in European cultures but i personally do believe that a state could take up the role of the church(in terms of acting as the absolute moral authority) without ever attempting to resemble Christianity. i've noticed a strong lean in fascist communities of clinging towards pagan religions pre-mass conversion of Christianity and this is a good case that christianity isnt needed as a frame work for any group trying to take up the role of a church