Is Salvation Pre-determined by God?

[Sir Silentium]

The answer is No.
Salvation is not predetermined in the sense that God chooses some people to be saved and others to be lost.

Common counter argument to this:

"If God already knows or has determined the outcome, then my actions don't matter."

For example, if someone believes God has chosen certain people for salvation, they may reason:

Then why preach?

Why pray?

Why evangelise?

The confusion comes from separating the result from the means.

Whilst God knows everything that is going to happen, that doesn't mean our actions won't change a scenario.
Do not mix up the meaning of pre-determinism. For example, if we do not preach to these people, then they will not know the truth.
So our choices DO influence what happens in history.

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Another way to view this:

We don't know who is predestined to hell (aka so far away from God loathing in blasphemy that they will not believe in Him even when the trumpets sound).

The Bible says to preach the Gospel to every creature. Even though on the outside many of these individuals don't seem to accept what we're saying, we just have to plant the seed. It is their job to water it.

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Scripture on the subject:
1 Corinthians 3:6

I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow

Romans 10:14

How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?

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@Old Ironsides @thevineyardworker @The_word_made_flesh @Ricecel Sungnodius @Krad

 

[Vinícius truecel]

There is free will and predestination.

 

[Ricecel Sungnodius]

I'd agree that salvation isn't pre-determined. I don't believe in predestination.

 

[tired as fuck]

if you believed in it you'd be a calvinist heretic so good job but sounds a more compelling argument would be "since God knows everything before it happens then everything we do is right by Him therefore do what you feel like doing". The problem with this is that many people don't do what they feel like doing but what others want em to do.

 

[Sir Silentium]

There is free will and predestination.

I'd agree that salvation isn't pre-determined. I don't believe in predestination.

if you believed in it you'd be a calvinist heretic so good job but sounds a more compelling argument would be "since God knows everything before it happens then everything we do is right by Him therefore do what you feel like doing". The problem with this is that many people don't do what they feel like doing but what others want em to do.

And the destination is a result of our choices around free will.
We can go to heaven or hell, it's a choice, the eternal destination is up to us to decide on. But ultimately God knows what we will chose.

People will be lead astray believing in predeterminism, whilst the Bible so clearly says opposite.

 

[Vinícius truecel]

And the destination is a result of our choices around free will.
We can go to heaven or hell, it's a choice, the eternal destination is up to us to decide on. But ultimately God knows what we will chose.

People will be lead astray believing in predeterminism, whilst the Bible so clearly says opposite.

The Bible also speaks of elections.

 

[Vinícius truecel]

Ephesians 1:4 Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him in love.

 

[tired as fuck]

And the destination is a result of our choices around free will.
We can go to heaven or hell, it's a choice, the eternal destination is up to us to decide on. But ultimately God knows what we will chose.

People will be lead astray believing in predeterminism, whilst the Bible so clearly says opposite.

yeah but people are not religious

 

[Sir Silentium]

yeah but people are not religious

What do you mean? The bible tells us not to be religious, for that is our own self-righteousness.

 

[tired as fuck]

What do you mean? The bible tells us not to be religious, for that is our own self-righteousness.

they aren't christian, muslim etc.
i have always asked myself if a person who is agnostic or atheist lives a pious life through works then dies, whether that person goes to the realm of the Lord.

 

[Old Ironsides]

Kinda, but still kinda against the teachings from what Saint Paul wrote in Romans 9:10-11.

Those who accept Faith in Christ are unconditionally elected/predestined for salvation.
Humans have free will, but we aren't able to choose Heaven because we are eternally sinful. We chose and can only choose evil.
Good things happening or done out of will is because God is working through us to make something good out of sin/evil. This is why when someone blesses someone with something, we say "Thanks be to God."

Humans are eternally evil, and those who accept Christ are saved by the Grace of God through Pre=destination.
Another thing to add on is that God didn't exactly predestine us to Hell. We predestined ourselves to Hell, God only predestines people to salvation and passes over others who already damned themselves.
It's also dogma in multiple denominations, some including: (Roman Catholicism, Presbyterian Church/Reformed/Dutch, Anglicanism, Lutherans, etc)
Here is the Catechism of the Catholic Church-

Catechism of the Catholic Church

www.usccb.org

 

[Sir Silentium]

Kinda, but still kinda against the teachings from what Saint Paul wrote in Romans 9:10-11.
View attachment 1749309

And then like I provided in the post, it goes on to say:

How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?

So like we mentioned before about the necessity of preaching the gospel, we must continue to do so.

Those who accept Faith in Christ are unconditionally elected/predestined for salvation.
Humans have free will, but we aren't able to choose Heaven because we are eternally sinful. We chose and can only choose evil.
Good things happening or done out of will is because God is working through us to make something good out of sin/evil. This is why when someone blesses someone with something, we say "Thanks be to God."

Humans are eternally evil, and those who accept Christ are saved by the Grace of God through Pre=destination.
Another thing to add on is that God didn't exactly predestine us to Hell. We predestined ourselves to Hell, God only predestines people to salvation and passes over others who already damned themselves.
It's also dogma in multiple denominations, some including: (Roman Catholicism, Presbyterian Church/Reformed/Dutch, Anglicanism, Lutherans, etc)
Here is the Catechism of the Catholic Church-

Catechism of the Catholic Church

www.usccb.org

Does God's sovereign election mean that His saving grace is given only to some? Or that everyone who asks for his Spirit shall receive, and that it is our job to tell more people about God for this to occur.

 

[Old Ironsides]

Does God's sovereign election mean that His saving grace is given only to some? Or that everyone who asks for his Spirit shall receive, and that it is our job to tell more people about God for this to occur.

Yes. Salvation is not given to all who calls upon the Lord. Reason being is the question of "can someone fall out of the Faith?" or is it "They were never with salvation in the first place?"
I am not quite sure what the correct answer is as far as what I asked above because I am still reading Saint Augustine's and Saint Thomas Aquinas's confessions as well ass early decrees/scriptures to come to my conclusion.

However, what I DO know is that not everyone who calls upon the Lord will be predestined/saved.
Scripture tells us:

 

[Sir Silentium]

Yes. Salvation is not given to all who calls upon the Lord. Reason being is the question of "can someone fall out of the Faith?" or is it "They were never with salvation in the first place?"
I am not quite sure what the correct answer is as far as what I asked above because I am still reading Saint Augustine's and Saint Thomas Aquinas's confessions as well ass early decrees/scriptures to come to my conclusion.

Ask and ye shall receive? Knock and the door will be opened?
Whosoever call upon my name shall be saved?

However, what I DO know is that not everyone who calls upon the Lord will be predestined/saved.
Scripture tells us:
View attachment 1749313

What is your view on this: Does God judge what you have not yet done? Biblically it is no

 

[Old Ironsides]

Ask and ye shall receive? Knock and the door will be opened?
Whosoever call upon my name shall be saved?

This is to those that are truly predestined.
Refer to Matthew 7:21, and then read proceeding Romans 9:11, those that are elect only will be saved.

What is your view on this: Does God judge what you have not yet done? Biblically it is no

Like if God came back right now?
Then yes.
God judges the Heart and intent. He knows who he predestined and who had intent to get Baptized and saved.
God could literally only save 1 person and send the rest of us to Hell, and he still would be and infinitely merciful God. We are all destroyers of good and deserve to go to Hell but are only at the mercy of God.

 

[The_word_made_flesh]

I think that God draws some nearer than others and that is true . I though people have the will to accept. Not all those elect are chosen.