Discussion Is “Citizenship for Military Service” a Good Idea?

[cvh1991]

Anyone who’s seen or read Starship Troopers is familiar with this concept and most people are not in favor of it.

I used to be against it as well, but I’ve been thinking on it a lot more lately. In particular because women being able to vote, hold office, and make governing decisions both in education and the government has done tremendous damage to society long term. Feminism and globohomo identity politics are mostly their doing (or at the very least they’re far more susceptible to those ideas) and together these represent a colossal failure that ruined the nuclear family and destroyed young men’s lives and prospects — while bolstering women at men’s expense.

Affirmative action for women, myths like the wage gap, laughably biased divorce laws, laughably biased “content moderation” for misogyny vs misandry, the corruption of art, the promotion of disgusting revolting behavior — a lot of problems long form basically start with:
1) birth control and abortion
2) feminism
3) women being able to vote and influence policy

The fact is women simply vote wrong and run their societies into the ground given time. There is a reason why across time and geography societies were built, led, and maintained by men and not women. We’re not cut from the same cloth nor are we meant to fulfill the same roles.

Citizenship for service or at least the vote does a few things:
1) you’re going to have probably a lot of women give up their right to vote because women won’t die for their country anywhere near the rates men will.

2) Many people actively hate their country and would never die to defend it. This makes sense if your country is a corrupt shithole that hates you like the west has basically become but I’d argue it maybe wouldn’t have become so terrible if a rule like this was in place from square one.

With CfS you’re basically saying that the people who love their country and are willing to self sacrifice for it and fight to establish and defend it are the ones who get to run it and make the big choices — that doesn’t seem unreasonable to me.

The trouble with democracy is that the people are retarded:

View: https://youtu.be/QFgcqB8-AxE?si=ArkjOiMLj1ZudCYQ
You need some kind of filter and CfS is at least one type.

The more time passes the more I start to think the only thing that can save the west is basically a WW2 Germany style new right uprising which returns society to traditional norms and values by force. Will that actually happen in my lifetime? I doubt it, more likely men will just do the bare minimum and pull back from society and cope with games and tv but what kind of dogshit meaningless life is that?

 

[THE TRUE DIGLET]

illegal immigrants can run across no-man's-land and detonate the mines

 

[cvh1991]

I also get fully that probably none of us would be willing to die for the current regime — that makes perfect sense. But if a new nation was created that actually did care about you and value your input where you had a family and a home, that’s a scenario where men probably would be willing to die for their country. Obviously the reality is that’s not how it works today and the west seems to fucking hate straight men and want to crush us like a tube of toothpaste for our labor while providing nothing in return.

 

[Grotesque Deformity]

The more time passes the more I start to think the only thing that can save the west is basically a WW2 Germany style new right uprising which returns society to traditional norms and values by force.

The return to "traditional values" will only buy a society some time, but not prevent it's descent into mass inceldom and degeneracy indefinitely. We need to look at the causes for societal collapse and destroy or remove those after establishing a more "traditional" society.

First we would have to abolish non-productive jobs (ie. entertainers, politicians, influencers and similar), people should only be allowed to work jobs that either produce something directly (ie. manufacturers, farmers, miners and so on), maintain the currently existing infrastructure or create new one (construction workers, electricians, plumbers, technicians, medical workers and so on) and those jobs that produce new equipment, ideas etc (researchers, engineers, professors and so on).

Second shift the society from pleasure seeking and materialism to either religion, the state or similar (higher ideals)

Lastly and most importantly, we need to address the female power as gate keepers of sex. Either keep them within some sort of reproductive chambers for artificial inseminations or replace them entirely with artificial wombs or similar systems.

 

[Mortis]

Will that actually happen in my lifetime? I doubt it, more likely men will just do the bare minimum and pull back from society and cope with games and tv but what kind of dogshit meaningless life is that?

Yeah it's pretty much over. We are heading towards a communist technocratic hell hole where the use of AI is the norm and normal human interactions alien.

Be ready for your smart cities where you are not allowed to travel outside of bounds, don't own anything and will be able to rent a pod to sleep in.

I guess there'll be android girlfriends if you are into that sort of stuff.

 

[cvh1991]

illegal immigrants can run across no-man's-land and detonate the mines

The fact that half or more of the US population doesn’t understand the damage of illegal immigration tells you what a complete failure our educational institutions now are.

1) Too much labor grinds the value of labor to dust. Eg there was a period in US history when the railroads were being built and us workers hated the Chinese coming over because they would work for nothing and it drove wages into the ground. That’s a very fair complaint and it’s reasonable to limit who you accept be selective to protect your own people. Too many workers without enough jobs gives Capital too much power. This is why corporations fucking love mass immigration.

2) Decimation of cultural values — not all groups are made equal and not all share the same values. Not all even have the same ability to learn.

3) You’ll create a low trust environment — diversity is an obstacle not a strength. Lots has been written about this from the Harvard prof guy who wrote Bowling Alone and even Amazon has commented on it in their union busting papers.

If you don’t have secure borders you don’t have a country. If you’re country takes people in they should be selective and only allow those who will integrate, follow the law, and contribute positively to the community. It’s not rocket science but modern liberals are fucking god damn retards who can’t fathom reality if it shot them in the face.

 

[Spooky_Heejin]

It sounds like a good idea in theory. I haven't done much research on it so I don't know the cons of this type of system.

 

[cvh1991]

The return to "traditional values" will only buy a society some time, but not prevent it's descent into mass inceldom and degeneracy indefinitely. We need to look at the causes for societal collapse and destroy or remove those after establishing a more "traditional" society.

First we would have to abolish non-productive jobs (ie. entertainers, politicians, influencers and similar), people should only be allowed to work jobs that either produce something directly (ie. manufacturers, farmers, miners and so on), maintain the currently existing infrastructure or create new one (construction workers, electricians, plumbers, technicians, medical workers and so on) and those jobs that produce new equipment, ideas etc (researchers, engineers, professors and so on).

Second shift the society from pleasure seeking and materialism to either religion, the state or similar (higher ideals)

Lastly and most importantly, we need to address the female power as gate keepers of sex. Either keep them within some sort of reproductive chambers for artificial inseminations or replace them entirely with artificial wombs or similar systems.

I’ll think on this, some of these ideas seem very sensible. A return to higher ideals definitely matters because a life of hedonistic nihilism without family or a home or respect in your work and so on is just hell.

I’m not sure we need to go so far with women but I agree both men and women need to have their natural inclinations restrained to some degree in order to force the best outcome. The problem today is that men are incredibly restricted while women aren’t restricted at all anymore and thus we’ve returned to pseudo harems where a small handful of top men share all the women and women can divorce you and completely ruin your life on a whim.

 

[Spooky_Heejin]

If you don’t have secure borders you don’t have a country. If you’re country takes people in they should be selective and only allow those who will integrate, follow the law, and contribute positively to the community. It’s not rocket science but modern liberals are fucking god damn retards who can’t fathom reality if it shot them in the face.

Fucking agreed. What's the point of having a country if people who aren't part of the country are allowed to vote?

 

[Grotesque Deformity]

I’ll think on this, some of these ideas seem very sensible. A return to higher ideals definitely matters because a life of hedonistic nihilism without family or a home or respect in your work and so on is just hell.

I’m not sure we need to go so far with women but I agree both men and women need to have their natural inclinations restrained to some degree in order to force the best outcome. The problem today is that men are incredibly restricted while women aren’t restricted at all anymore and thus we’ve returned to pseudo harems where a small handful of top men share all the women and women can divorce you and completely ruin your life on a whim.

Although I believe for either of our two ideas to even have a chance to be implemented there needs to be some kind of calamity, either natural or man-made. Something like a deadly pandemic, atomic war or a series of natural disasters.

 

[MuddyBuddy]

It is the only sensible way to organize a democratic society. The vast majority of people who vote today view this right as an investment rather than an idealistic pursuit of some higher principles. The problem with viewing society as an investment is you have no reason to put more into the society than you expect to get out. This naturally breeds laziness and entitlement.

 

[cvh1991]

Yeah it's pretty much over. We are heading towards a communist technocratic hell hole where the use of AI is the norm and normal human interactions alien.

Be ready for your smart cities where you are not allowed to travel outside of bounds, don't own anything and will be able to rent a pod to sleep in.

I guess there'll be android girlfriends if you are into that sort of stuff.

View attachment 1044627

Good comment mate — I remember reading all those books in school/Uni about future societies that will have people take drugs to cope and it’s hilarious because women already do that. A humongous amount of women are on anti depressants and more beyond that already. Nobody outside the top crust can afford housing so practically everyone young I work with in STEM lives with their parents. And the regime / powers that he don’t give a fuck. The elderly got theirs and thus don’t care. What a nihilistic hedonistic time to live — I have no influence on my own society, my own society hates me, I have no respect in my work, I have no money despite working for many years, I can’t afford a home, I’ll never have my own family. There’s just no point. Video games and tv mean nothing — they don’t work anymore. And art in general has been corrupted by these wokefag animals. Why live? Why am I even here?

I’m so filled with hatred and there’s nothing I can do. I’m powerless. I’m about 1 step away from buying a tent and living in the woods like a hermit. But that’s not really fixing the real problem. What can we even do other than grind in our lives of quiet desperation?

 

[prajeet88]

View attachment 1044627

Average WEF experience

 

[cvh1991]

It is the only sensible way to organize a democratic society. The vast majority of people who vote today view this right as an investment rather than an idealistic pursuit of some higher principles. The problem with viewing society as an investment is you have no reason to put more into the society than you expect to get out. This naturally breeds laziness and entitlement.

High IQ tbh, I hadn’t considered it like that before

 

[cvh1991]

Although I believe for either of our two ideas to even have a chance to be implemented there needs to be some kind of calamity, either natural or man-made. Something like a deadly pandemic, atomic war or a series of natural disasters.

Well put, yeah reality seems to be things have to get extraordinarily bad before people are willing to flip the board. Which makes sense I suppose as war is horrific and most of us would probably be the ones dying in the mud. But at the same time the alternative is a gradual slide into worse and worse conditions as real wages vs inflation and cost of living continue to be ground to dust and the gap between men and women grows ever wider. Honestly I think if those of us here had been born several decades sooner it is very likely our lived wouldn’t have turned out like this. Don’t even get me started on how politicians are obviously corrupt and have perverse self serving incentives, that’s a separate topic I suppose.

 

[Fifita]

These Niggers first have to learn English

 

[nvrbegan]

Anyone who’s seen or read Starship Troopers is familiar with this concept and most people are not in favor of it.

I used to be against it as well, but I’ve been thinking on it a lot more lately. In particular because women being able to vote, hold office, and make governing decisions both in education and the government has done tremendous damage to society long term. Feminism and globohomo identity politics are mostly their doing (or at the very least they’re far more susceptible to those ideas) and together these represent a colossal failure that ruined the nuclear family and destroyed young men’s lives and prospects — while bolstering women at men’s expense.

Affirmative action for women, myths like the wage gap, laughably biased divorce laws, laughably biased “content moderation” for misogyny vs misandry, the corruption of art, the promotion of disgusting revolting behavior — a lot of problems long form basically start with:
1) birth control and abortion
2) feminism
3) women being able to vote and influence policy

The fact is women simply vote wrong and run their societies into the ground given time. There is a reason why across time and geography societies were built, led, and maintained by men and not women. We’re not cut from the same cloth nor are we meant to fulfill the same roles.

Citizenship for service or at least the vote does a few things:
1) you’re going to have probably a lot of women give up their right to vote because women won’t die for their country anywhere near the rates men will.

2) Many people actively hate their country and would never die to defend it. This makes sense if your country is a corrupt shithole that hates you like the west has basically become but I’d argue it maybe wouldn’t have become so terrible if a rule like this was in place from square one.

With CfS you’re basically saying that the people who love their country and are willing to self sacrifice for it and fight to establish and defend it are the ones who get to run it and make the big choices — that doesn’t seem unreasonable to me.

The trouble with democracy is that the people are retarded:

View: https://youtu.be/QFgcqB8-AxE?si=ArkjOiMLj1ZudCYQ
You need some kind of filter and CfS is at least one type.

The more time passes the more I start to think the only thing that can save the west is basically a WW2 Germany style new right uprising which returns society to traditional norms and values by force. Will that actually happen in my lifetime? I doubt it, more likely men will just do the bare minimum and pull back from society and cope with games and tv but what kind of dogshit meaningless life is that?

In this wold it is a nonsensical concept anyway.
Illegals are just as good off as legals, maybe better.
They don't need to risk their life and health in the military for something they will get anyway with no effort.

 

[nvrbegan]

It will go the other way round: Illegals will be armed as the democrat secret police and be sent out as draft officers to force white conservative men into the woke military and the first front line.

 

[currycel102]

No, wtf?

Why should you be allowed to live in my country because you fought for israel and our jewish masters?

 

[Buried Alive 2.0]

This thread made me realize CfS already happens, albeit in an extremely cucked way. In my country, if you don't present yourself to military service at 18, you don't get a document that's necessary to do pretty much everything else of importance. And, if you present yourself late, you're automatically drafted into service. Women, of course, don't need to go through this.

The "good" news is it's easy to get this document if you present yourself at the proper time and avoid service, because our military is a joke (like everything else) and we're at no risk of war.

 

[cvh1991]

This thread made me realize CfS already happens, albeit in an extremely cucked way. In my country, if you don't present yourself to military service at 18, you don't get a document that's necessary to do pretty much everything else of importance. And, if you present yourself late, you're automatically drafted into service. Women, of course, don't need to go through this.

The "good" news is it's easy to get this document if you present yourself at the proper time and avoid service, because our military is a joke (like everything else) and we're at no risk of war.

Yeah, the clear issue with the systems I know of that sort of do this in is of course that they exclude women — which is completely unfair horseshit and totally unreasonable. If you’re going to have citizenship for service or the vote for service then you need to actually apply it in a uniform way and not just throw it on the pile of things men are expected to carry while women given a pass.

 

[Buried Alive 2.0]

Yeah, the clear issue with the systems I know of that sort of do this in is of course that they exclude women — which is completely unfair horseshit and totally unreasonable. If you’re going to have citizenship for service or the vote for service then you need to actually apply it in a uniform way and not just throw it on the pile of things men are expected to carry while women given a pass.

Absolutely. And to women this is just another privilege they don't even realize they have.

 

[nystagmuscel]

Sounds similar to what the Roman Empire did IIRC