I've been thinking about whether I should start debating normies/bluepilled people about inceldom. And I was thinking about a list of motions (ranked from easiest to hardest to concede for normie) to structure the debate.
Here's my initial list and feel free to add, or restructure the ranking in the comments;
Easiest motion to concede:
1. It's easier for the average woman to get laid and or get a girlfriend than it is for the average man to get laid and or get a boyfriend.
Easy because, women in our society are just inherently valued more and most people are aware of that/willing to admit that.
2. There is a semi-objective measure to rate people's physical attractiveness
I say semi-objective, because there are always exceptions and human behavior can be unpredictable and complex, but across time and culture there are traits about the human body (also gender specific) that make someone more attractive to the vast majority of people.
(Note that semi-objective in human behaviour is basically objective, because I would consider diagnoses from a psychologist also semi-objective, the only things I'd consider objective are the laws of nature for example)
3. Incel men are less of a threat/dangerous to women than non-incel men
In terms of violence, sexual violence, direct verbal abuse. This one is easier to prove than the others I think, but I also think normies will find it harder to concede.
Hardest motion to concede:
4. Incels are NOT their own worst enemy when it comes to ascending / Inceldom is caused mostly by things outside of a man's control rather than things that are within his control
I think this one is probably one of the more difficult ones to debate, because it is true that most of us don't really have active social lives or go out much/meet women or new people. And yes that does effectively make the chances of ascending almost drop down to zero. However what most normies don't realise is that the reason we do that is not because we didn't bother to try, but because we've given up after trying continuously and we're just exhausted. It's a symptom of our condition not a cause.
Now one counter-argument you'll often hear is "but that's a classic example of learned helplessness". Except it's not; the reality is that using numbers alone it's inevitable that atleast some part of the male population will die alone, the global gender ratio is 103 men to 100 women.
Some will argue that some countries have a higher female to male ratio, but that's because women live longer and men die earlier and more frequently take a look at this population pyramid of the U.S. For example;
This is the US population pyramid in 2026, notice how it's more men up until the agebracket of 60-64 then it suddenly flips.
This is the case for most developed nations, most nations in fact. And by that age, most women are taken and besides if I can't get a girlfriend until my late 50's something's telling me that that's not going to suddenly change the day I turn 60.
So what I'm arguing here is that us incels make up part of the 'surplus men',
but then normies will say 'yeah but your personality can make up for it, you just got to try harder, i've seen many ugly dudes get laid etc.' or something along those lines, we've heard it a million times.
Well you wouldn't tell a kid living in the slums that they'll be a millionaire one day if they just work hard enough. Would you say that they suffer from learned helplessness when they're an adult because you notice them not even trying to move to a better neighborhood or country or pursue higher education, apply for high paying job etc.
Would you tell them "look some people from these slums have pulled up their bootstraps and did it, why can't you?"
Romantically/sexually successful people despite starting in exceptionally difficult circumstances are exceptional, Romantically/sexually successful people in regular circumstances are not.
Another counterargument is 'crab bucket mentality' which first of all could conceptually apply to incels active on incel forums and most incels are NOT on incel forums or see themselves as incels. But even if you are on this forum, nobody is stopping you from trying to go out in the real world to try and get a girlfriend, infact many of us have tried and still try. It's just that you're not allowed back if you succeed, because you're just not an incel anymore at that point.
And they'll say "Blind leading the blind" but we're not trying to get people laid or obtain a girlfriend on this forum, for that you can go on .org or try redpill PUA (if you still believe in that lol). On this forum we're just trying to help people cope with the fact that we'll never get a girlfriend.
The majority of boys get their first kiss at 13 years old. You're telling me that more than half of all 13 year olds know something about 'personality' or 'confidence' that we don't?
. Okay buddy.
Maybe hardest motion to concede?
5. Incels are less misogynist than non incel-men
Maybe also the hardest to debate, but I remember reading somewhere that research showed this to be a true fact, which is pretty brutal imo.
@AtrociousCitizen @GeckoBus @Oneitiscel @CursedMutantSoul @TooSomething @DoomThreeShotgunner
(If you're interested in more theoretical discussion like this from me let me know, I will ping you in a future thread, right now I just pinged the people that I think might be interested in this)
Here's my initial list and feel free to add, or restructure the ranking in the comments;
Easiest motion to concede:
1. It's easier for the average woman to get laid and or get a girlfriend than it is for the average man to get laid and or get a boyfriend.
Easy because, women in our society are just inherently valued more and most people are aware of that/willing to admit that.
2. There is a semi-objective measure to rate people's physical attractiveness
I say semi-objective, because there are always exceptions and human behavior can be unpredictable and complex, but across time and culture there are traits about the human body (also gender specific) that make someone more attractive to the vast majority of people.
(Note that semi-objective in human behaviour is basically objective, because I would consider diagnoses from a psychologist also semi-objective, the only things I'd consider objective are the laws of nature for example)
3. Incel men are less of a threat/dangerous to women than non-incel men
In terms of violence, sexual violence, direct verbal abuse. This one is easier to prove than the others I think, but I also think normies will find it harder to concede.
Hardest motion to concede:
4. Incels are NOT their own worst enemy when it comes to ascending / Inceldom is caused mostly by things outside of a man's control rather than things that are within his control
I think this one is probably one of the more difficult ones to debate, because it is true that most of us don't really have active social lives or go out much/meet women or new people. And yes that does effectively make the chances of ascending almost drop down to zero. However what most normies don't realise is that the reason we do that is not because we didn't bother to try, but because we've given up after trying continuously and we're just exhausted. It's a symptom of our condition not a cause.
Now one counter-argument you'll often hear is "but that's a classic example of learned helplessness". Except it's not; the reality is that using numbers alone it's inevitable that atleast some part of the male population will die alone, the global gender ratio is 103 men to 100 women.
Some will argue that some countries have a higher female to male ratio, but that's because women live longer and men die earlier and more frequently take a look at this population pyramid of the U.S. For example;
This is the US population pyramid in 2026, notice how it's more men up until the agebracket of 60-64 then it suddenly flips.
This is the case for most developed nations, most nations in fact. And by that age, most women are taken and besides if I can't get a girlfriend until my late 50's something's telling me that that's not going to suddenly change the day I turn 60.
So what I'm arguing here is that us incels make up part of the 'surplus men',
but then normies will say 'yeah but your personality can make up for it, you just got to try harder, i've seen many ugly dudes get laid etc.' or something along those lines, we've heard it a million times.
Well you wouldn't tell a kid living in the slums that they'll be a millionaire one day if they just work hard enough. Would you say that they suffer from learned helplessness when they're an adult because you notice them not even trying to move to a better neighborhood or country or pursue higher education, apply for high paying job etc.
Would you tell them "look some people from these slums have pulled up their bootstraps and did it, why can't you?"
Romantically/sexually successful people despite starting in exceptionally difficult circumstances are exceptional, Romantically/sexually successful people in regular circumstances are not.
Another counterargument is 'crab bucket mentality' which first of all could conceptually apply to incels active on incel forums and most incels are NOT on incel forums or see themselves as incels. But even if you are on this forum, nobody is stopping you from trying to go out in the real world to try and get a girlfriend, infact many of us have tried and still try. It's just that you're not allowed back if you succeed, because you're just not an incel anymore at that point.
And they'll say "Blind leading the blind" but we're not trying to get people laid or obtain a girlfriend on this forum, for that you can go on .org or try redpill PUA (if you still believe in that lol). On this forum we're just trying to help people cope with the fact that we'll never get a girlfriend.
The majority of boys get their first kiss at 13 years old. You're telling me that more than half of all 13 year olds know something about 'personality' or 'confidence' that we don't?
. Okay buddy.Maybe hardest motion to concede?
5. Incels are less misogynist than non incel-men
Maybe also the hardest to debate, but I remember reading somewhere that research showed this to be a true fact, which is pretty brutal imo.
@AtrociousCitizen @GeckoBus @Oneitiscel @CursedMutantSoul @TooSomething @DoomThreeShotgunner
(If you're interested in more theoretical discussion like this from me let me know, I will ping you in a future thread, right now I just pinged the people that I think might be interested in this)
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