Serious I'm Not A Flat Eather, But One Thing Always Confuses Me

[BlkPillPres]

I step on an escalator and I can feel it moving, even though I'm moving with it. I can feel myself being carried by it.

When an earth quake happens we all feel it

But the earth, this huge land mass were all standing on, is spinning at the speed of around 1000 miles per hour but we never feel such an extreme movement while standing on such a large object, maybe its because its so large that relative to us its like were not even moving, that makes sense.

The answer for that makes sense, were moving at the same speed as the earth since were being "carried" along with the force of that spin, so relative to us its like were stationary.

Then I think, ok but what if I jump in the air

The answer for that also makes sense and its basically the same thing as above, I jumped in the air while the earth was still moving, so I'm still being moved at that relative speed, so even if I jump i'll just land back in that same spot.

Ok, so what if someone takes a helicopter and hovers in mid air for an hour

I can't come up with an answer that makes sense as to why the helicopter would not have traveled 1000 miles just by hovering. Of course the helicopter still has the force of the earths spin being applied to it before taking off, but its been in the air for an hour uninfluenced by that force.

The only thing that makes sense is that the helicopter is somehow now being pulled by the force of gravity to still move at the same rate, but what the fuck is the "anchor" being used to pull the helicopter, I don't get it. It can't be the wind, once the helicopter leaves the ground its no longer under the force of the earths gravity as a whole, the push factor of earths gravity is constant, in other words there is still a constant force of 9.8 m/s2 pushing down on the helicopter as a constant rate of acceleration, but again that's just the rate that the helicopter is falling at, but its propelling itself upwards negating that force.

So what force is keeping the plane at the same constant position on the earth, shouldn't the earth just spin and the helicopter just ends up getting wrecked by coming into contact with air, etc moving at 1000 miles per hour.

TLDR - What is "carries" a hovering helicopter "along with the rest of the earth". As in what keeps it moving at the same constant speed of 1000 miles per hour as the earth does (while at the same time not destroying it).

 

[Deleted member 15737]

Gravity.

 

[BlkPillPres]

Gravity.

That doesn't explain anything, also gravity is a force that "pushes down". If gravity was multi-directional and at a constant rate we literally would not be able to move anywhere, the only way its "just gravity" moving a hovering helicopter is if its multi-directional.

Again I ask, why is "pulling" said hovering helicopter along with the spinning earth, when it is no longer in contact with the earth to be affected by that force.

If I took a remote control drone and place it on a spinning merry go round, it will move with the merry go round, but if I activate it, and hover it above the same spinning merry go round, it will be in the same position and only the merry go round would be moving.

Just saying "gravity" doesn't help much with this.

 

[Deleted member 15737]

The earth’s atmosphere and the ground both move together. The helicopter hovering is moving with the atmosphere. If the atmosphere didn’t move, you would have 1000mph wind as the ground moved and the atmosphere stood still.

 

[BlkPillPres]

The earth’s atmosphere and the ground both move together. The helicopter hovering is moving with the atmosphere. If the atmosphere didn’t move, you would have 1000mph wind as the ground moved and the atmosphere stood still.

I already got that part, which is why I'm confused, at the point of hovering, isn't the helicopter now at the mercy of an atmosphere moving at 1000mph. How does the helicopter survive. Or is the force only 1000mph further up into the atmosphere, and I've got the wrong number and the speed is much slower below.

The only way that works though is if the gases the further up you go are lighter, I did some googling and they are, so that part makes sense. But now I'm still stuck JFL.

Helicopter high enough to be in contact with 1000mph speeds = helicopter gets rekt
Helicopter low enough for the wind speeds to be benign = why the fuck is it even affected, the wind is too slow to "push" or "pull" it

 

[Sadist]

I already got that part, which is why I'm confused, at the point of hovering, isn't the helicopter now at the mercy of an atmosphere moving at 1000mph. How does the helicopter survive. Or is the force only 1000mph further up into the atmosphere, and I've got the wrong number and the speed is much slower below.

The only way that works though is if the gases the further up you go are lighter, I did some googling and they are, so that part makes sense. But now I'm still stuck JFL.

Helicopter high enough to be in contact with 1000mph speeds = helicopter gets rekt
Helicopter low enough for the wind speeds to be benign = why the fuck is it even affected, the wind is too slow to "push" or "pull" it

Think of it like a car. When you are in a car you don't feel the motion. If you were to jump in the car you would still move with the car. The helicopter is just holding its jump you can say.

 

[BlkPillPres]

Think of it like a car. When you are in a car you don't feel the motion.

Like come on dude, everybody feels a car moving, it feels weird to even read this sentence, you can literally feel the car moving, you could clothes the windows to get rid of air, and be on the smoothest road, and close your eyes (assuming you are in a passenger seat). and you can still feel it moving.

If you were to jump in the car you would still move with the car. The helicopter is just holding its jump you can say.

Here's the thing, the car lands, so the whole "holding your jump" example makes sense, just like how if I jump in mid air gravity sends me back down and I land, but a hovering helicopter that's in the air for an hour doesn't land, you are literally saying that it holds a constant continuous speed relative to the earth despite no longer being at the behest of those forces for an entire hour.

It doesn't make sense, its shit like this that makes me think information is being hidden from us, why hasn't anybody tested this, I'm off to look up some videos to see if someone did, maybe a video can explain this idk.

 

[Sadist]

Like come on dude, everybody feels a car moving, it feels weird to even read this sentence, you can literally feel the car moving, you could clothes the windows to get rid of air, and be on the smoothest road, and close your eyes (assuming you are in a passenger seat). and you can still feel it moving.



Here's thing, the car lands, so the whole "holding your jump" example makes sense, just like how if I jump iin mid air gravity sends me back down and I land, but a hovering helicopter that's in the air for an hour doesn't land, you are literally saying that it holds a constant continuous speed of relative to the earth despite no longer being at the behest of those forces for an entire hour.

It doesn't make sense, its shit like this that makes me think information is being hidden from us, why hasn't anybody tested this, I'm off to look up some videos to see if someone did, maybe a video can explain this idk.

The car example would be in a perfect example. There is friction, speed bumps, and such that affect the car in real life. A plane would be a better example I guess if you could deny the turbulence and closed your eyes to prevent the moving scenery to convince you other wise.

The helicopter is in the earth. Both the helicopter and the earth can be viewed as one system. The force causing the earth to spin in its axis is also applied to everything within it. The force causing the spin is in the x-axis, so the helicopter is being affected by that force when thinking about this scenario not gravity.

At least thats how I think of it if Im even explaining it correctly.

 

[BlkPillPres]

The car example would be in a perfect example. There is friction, speed bumps, and such that affect the car in real life. A plane would be a better example I guess if you could deny the turbulence and closed your eyes to prevent the moving scenery to convince you other wise.

The helicopter is in the earth. Both the helicopter and the earth can be viewed as one system. The force causing the earth to spin in its axis is also applied to everything within it. The force causing the spin is in the x-axis, so the helicopter is being affected by that force when thinking about this scenario not gravity.

At least thats how I think of it if Im even explaining it correctly.

I don't think you see the obvious problem with that

If I'm standing on an escalator I get pulled along with it because I'm standing with it, there is traction to pull me with it. There is a physical force pulling me with it.

If I hover over the escalator there is nothing to pull me in the direction of the escalator. Now I understand that the earth has an atmosphere moving at the same speed, but I already addressed the obvious problem with that here:

I already got that part, which is why I'm confused, at the point of hovering, isn't the helicopter now at the mercy of an atmosphere moving at 1000mph. How does the helicopter survive. Or is the force only 1000mph further up into the atmosphere, and I've got the wrong number and the speed is much slower below.

The only way that works though is if the gases the further up you go are lighter, I did some googling and they are, so that part makes sense. But now I'm still stuck JFL.

Helicopter high enough to be in contact with 1000mph speeds = helicopter gets rekt
Helicopter low enough for the wind speeds to be benign = why the fuck is it even affected, the wind is too slow to "push" or "pull" it

What your point amounts to is that the force of the atmosphere is enough to move that helicopter along with the earth, shouldn't there be some kind of "whip lash" factor for something that extreme. Its like the helicopter is being closelined by the earth, and the earths arms are its atmosphere, how the fuck does the helicopter survive that force of 1000mph, and if its low enough that it isn't under such forces, then why the hell would it be carried by such weak forces.

It doesn't make sense, what the hell could be moving the helicopter while its in the air, I don't know.

Is there are "sweet spot" where the forces are strong enough to carry the helicopter without damaging it. Ok, then I ask, what happens if you go below that sweet spot, does the helicopter now just travel 1000m after an hour of hovering. If I ever get access to a helicopter I'll test this myself.

 

[letmedie]

I mean we (and everything else) experience the same amount of force as the earth turns off the ground as we do on it. Our bodies and everything we’ve made is built to withstand the natural turn of the earth. Any greater force than what we naturally experience is when you start to feel the pressure of it, but simply lifting off the ground doesn’t add anything except a gravitational pull towards the earth which isn’t enough to destroy it.

 

[Sadist]

I don't think you see the obvious problem with that

If I'm standing on an escalator I get pulled along with it because I'm standing with it, there is traction to pull me with it. There is a physical force pulling me with it.

If I hover over the escalator there is nothing to pull me in the direction of the escalator. Now I understand that the earth has an atmosphere moving at the same speed, but I already addressed the obvious problem with that here:



What your point amounts to is that the force of the atmosphere is enough to move that helicopter along with the earth, shouldn't there be some kind of "whip lash" factor for something that extreme. Its like the helicopter is being closelined by the earth, and the earths arms are its atmosphere, how the fuck does the helicopter survive that force of 1000mph, and if its low enough that it isn't under such forces, then why the hell would it be carried by such weak forces.

It doesn't make sense, what the hell could be moving the helicopter while its in the air, I don't know.

Is there are "sweet spot" where the forces are strong enough to carry the helicopter without damaging it. Ok, then I ask, what happens if you go below that sweet spot, does the helicopter now just travel 1000m after an hour of hovering. If I ever get access to a helicopter I'll test this myself.

- The same force that cause the swirling of the debris that eventually formed the planet is what continues to rotate the earth and us within it.

- Its not just the atmosphere that is moving at 1000mph but everything inside the earth. We are all moving 1000 mph. We don't feel it cause just how when we are in a vehicle on the highway we don't feel like we are moving 60mph because we are moving with the vehicle. It is relative. You could think of it canceling out.

- Their would be whiplash if earth were to stop spinning and we would all die. Im not sure why you meant by that rest of the paragraph. The reason a helicopter can move is explained by the analogy of throwing a ball inside a moving vehicle. (again perfect scenario) the ball would be going as fast as the vehicle plus the initial velocity of the throw. If it weren't going as fast as the vehicle the ball would just go backwards as soon as you let it go or stay in place if the initial velocity matched the movement of the vehicle which would be cool thing to see tbh. Same with the helicopter you can think of it moving 1000mph plus whatever force is necessary to move it further. We don't feel the 1000mph because everything is moving at that speed as well because we are inside earth.

 

[guerillahubris]

Everything on the earth revolves around it at its rotational speed including whatevers in the atmosphere what doesnt make sense

 

[blickpall]

Basic physics. Here is a good answer.

http://www.physicscentral.com/experiment/askaphysicist/physics-answer.cfm?uid=20110218025229

 

[Deleted member 14577]

I always assumed that we sense acceleration and change of direction and earth has a constant speed and direction so we don't sense anything. It's been going the same speed and direction since I was born.

 

[Mainländer]

I was 12 km high on the plane and didn't see the curve tbh

 

[Deleted member 5653]

Physics is a cope.
Lmao @ you if you still believe scientists in 2018 (almost 2019)

 

[jerrycan dan]

Physics is a cope.
Lmao @ you if you still believe scientists in 2018 (almost 2019)

high IQ

 

[anon]

I'm low IQ, but I imagine it's similar to throwing a tennis ball up in the air while moving in a very fast car. You'd think the tennis ball would "fly" back and hit the rear of the car or the rear windshield, but it moves together with the car in motion.

The tennis ball is being accelerated by the car and when you throw it up into the air it moves together with the car at the same speed even though it's technically not in contact with the car itself. What you're doing is basically "throwing" the ball forward like you would a basketball or an american football. The car and by extension your hand is giving the tennis ball acceleration. Again, this is what I think is happening. It makes sense to me.

To you it looks like you're throwing it straight up vertically and it falls back down vertically the same way in a completely straight line.
Obviously what's actually going on is pic related:

I can't really explain how exactly the Earth, its gravity and atmosphere works, but I don't find it very puzzling or crazy. I just can't explain it well because I'm not a physicist or high IQ.

What's probably happening is that while the object (helicopter, human before jumping, ball etc.) is on the ground or in the air (a bird), the earth's spin and by extension its dense atmosphere and strong gravity is constantly "giving" it acceleration equal to the acceleration of the earth's spin. When you jump you're not actually jumping straight up and down (you are, but you know what I mean), you're jumping in the direction of the earth's spin and moving hundreds of meters through "space" in that direction. Obviously you're always moving through space. You're moving through space at crazy high speeds as we speak, much faster than just the speed of earth's spin.

You don't feel any of this because you're part of the planet, not an independent object that just happens to be close to Earth.
You're also a part of the solar system and by extension the galaxy and clusters and what not. It's crazy when you think about it.

 

[Deleted member 265]

I'm low IQ, but I imagine it's similar to throwing a tennis ball up in the air while moving in a very fast car. You'd think the tennis ball would "fly" back and hit the rear of the car or the rear windshield, but it moves together with the car in motion.

The tennis ball is being accelerated by the car and when you throw it up into the air it moves together with the car at the same speed even though it's technically not in contact with the car itself. What you're doing is basically "throwing" the ball forward like you would a basketball or an american football. The car and by extension your hand is giving the tennis ball acceleration. Again, this is what I think is happening. It makes sense to me.

To you it looks like you're throwing it straight up vertically and it falls back down vertically the same way in a completely straight line.
Obviously what's actually going on is pic related:
View attachment 64219

I can't really explain how exactly the Earth, its gravity and atmosphere works, but I think it has something to with this and I don't find it very puzzling or crazy. I just can't explain it well because I'm not a physicist or high IQ.

What's probably happening is that while the object (helicopter, human before jumping, ball etc.) is on the ground or in the air (a bird), the earth's spin and by extension its dense atmosphere and strong gravity is constantly "giving" it acceleration equal to the acceleration of the earth's spin. When you jump you're not actually jumping straight up and down (you are, but you know what I mean), you're jumping in the direction of the earth's spin and moving hundreds of meters through "space" in that direction. Obviously you're always moving through space. You're moving through space at crazy high speeds as we speak, much faster than just the speed of earth's spin.

You don't feel any of this because you're part of the planet, not an independent object that just happens to be close to Earth.
You're also a part of the solar system and by extension the galaxy and clusters and what not. It's crazy when you think about it.

this is the right answer, it checks out with http://www.physicscentral.com/experiment/askaphysicist/physics-answer.cfm?uid=20110218025229

 

[Frankenstein's M.]

High IQ thread

 

[anon]

this is the right answer, it checks out with http://www.physicscentral.com/experiment/askaphysicist/physics-answer.cfm?uid=20110218025229

Read this article, OP. It does a much better job of answering your question. English is not even my native language.
This is actually simple stuff, but I understand OP's question and why he and many others have trouble understanding all this. Once you read about it, it makes perfect sense.

I remember learning this in elementary school. I actually liked physics in school, at least the theoretical part of it. I'm terrible at math, though.

 

[jet112]

the answer is: its moving very slowly and its not significant enough to affect your own rotation or position

 

[BlkPillPres]

When was the last time any of you ever saw an interesting thread like this in the offtopic section? (for me, never)

I'm low IQ, but I imagine it's similar to throwing a tennis ball up in the air while moving in a very fast car. You'd think the tennis ball would "fly" back and hit the rear of the car or the rear windshield, but it moves together with the car in motion.

Again that's because you threw it and it basically immediately comes back down, if you used a helicopter drone and just set it to prone hover in the car as you drove, what speed would it move with, the earths speed? or the cars speed? (which is also being modified by the earths speed, making it faster).

I understand that something thrown moves with you because it doesn't get enough time to stop being affected by the earths acceleration, but something hovering should not be affected by the earths movement, there's no "force" there to move it along with the earth. There's nothing in the air to "pull" it.

If it moves at the earths speed then its going to hit the back of the car, because the car is moving at the earths speed + its own acceleration.

Basic physics. Here is a good answer.

http://www.physicscentral.com/experiment/askaphysicist/physics-answer.cfm?uid=20110218025229

It kinda makes sense at first, but in a way it still doesn't make any sense if you look at it

"They have to apply horizontal forces as well, in order to counter the Earth's rotation"

"though the helicopter has exerted a force (through the use of its rotors) to lift it straight up, it hasn't exerted a force in the horizontal direction to counter the motion (momentum) it already had that one revolution per minute! So though the helicopter is no longer touching the ground, unless the pilot purposely exerts a force against the helicopter's initial momentum, the helicopter will continue to move at one revolution per day, and thus remain above the same spot on the Earth's surface from where it took off."

If what this article says is true, the the air around us is being propelled at a force simultaneously both strong enough to move a helicopter along with the earth and weak enough not to kill people while sky diving THOUGH MOVING THEM WITH THE SAME FORCE THAT MOVES A HELICOPTER.

That doesn't make any sense, I hope you guys get what I'm saying. If you take a helicopter and hover it, even if it carries the initial momentum, that momentum is not going to hold for even 30 minutes, so the only thing left to "pull" the helicopter along with the earth is the atmosphere itself, but that means the atmosphere moving at the earths speed is so strong it can pull something as massive and heavy as a helicopter along with the earth, but if its that strong of a HORIZONTAL FORCE, wouldn't that same HORIZONTAL FORCE kill any human who was skydiving, because they'd have that same force applied to their body to carry them along with the earth.

It would be like me punching a brick so hard I break it, and I punch a baby with the same force and it giggles like it was tickled.

 

[WillyBlogAndFriends]

Lol cope Newton was a Chad

A gravitychad

 

[_incelinside]

That doesn't make any sense, I hope you guys get what I'm saying. If you take a helicopter and hover it, even if it carries the initial momentum, that momentum is not going to hold for even 30 minutes,

Newtons first law of motion; inertia states that a object will carry on with the same motion unless a resultant force is acted upon it. The momentum of the helicopter given by the earth will remain with it while its in the air because there is nothing to take it away

 

[BlkPillPres]

Newtons first law of motion; inertia states that a object will carry on with the same motion unless a resultant force is acted upon it. The momentum of the helicopter given by the earth will remain with it while its in the air because there is nothing to take it away

Yes but a hovering helicopter isn't completely motionless, there is something to take away the momentum, the movement of the helicopter in the opposite direction of the intial force of the earths acceleration, it would only have to move against that force for an instant to be damaged or even destroyed by it. A helicopter shifts from side to side, there are endless instances where said helicopter is moving against the initial momentum, why doesn't it fall apart from taking on the force of that momentum.

If I threw a sheet of metal at 1000mph and it suddenly stopped in mid air, it with crumple, it would be bent by that force.

 

[_incelinside]

Yes but a hovering helicopter isn't completely motionless, there is something to take away the momentum, the movement of the helicopter in the opposite direction of the intial force of the earths acceleration, it would only have to move against that force for an instant to be damaged or even destroyed by it. A helicopter shifts from side to side, there are endless instances where said helicopter is moving against the initial momentum, why doesn't it fall apart from taking on the force of that momentum.

If I threw a sheet of metal at 1000mph and it suddenly stopped in mid air, it with crumple, it would be bent by that force.

An object does not suddenly lose its momentum when its path is altered. If a force is applied making the helicopter move in the opposite direction the earth is spinning it will effectively be the same as the object slowing down or earth moving faster relative to it.

 

[BlkPillPres]

An object does not suddenly lose its momentum when its path is altered. If it moves in the oposite direction the earth is spinning it will effectively be the same as the object slowing down or earth moving faster relative to it

I never said it loses its momentum completely, of course it has to slow down, hence the hover for an hour thing, but again the thing pulling against the helicopter (atmosphere) is moving at 1000mph, so again I ask, if that force is enough to move a helicopter at a consistent speed of 1000mph, how does that same force not flaten a human sky diver mid air, sky diving should be impossible.

That's the part that doesn't make sense, the helicopter moves at the earths speed due to the initial momentum after take off, good, that makes sense, but now its in the air hovering for 30 mins, whats keeping it moving at that momentum, the answer is the atmosphere around it that is also moving at the earths speed right?

Ok, so the atmosphere is strong enough a "buffer" to "pull/push" a helicopter so that it maintains a relative momentum to keep up with the earth, but that same force applied to a human sky diver doesn't kill them instantly and sends them flying frantically in the direction of the earths spin?

To explain my point further:

If I take an adult human at a park and tell them to get on a swing, and I push them enough to get them high in the air that would be a significant force right, now imagine now I took a child and put them on the swing, and pushed with the exact same force I used to push the adult, if what you are saying here is correct, that child would not feel any difference in speed, any difference in force, they would not be propelled up into the air due to having a weight difference, they would for some reason move at the same speed as when I pushed the adult.

Do you see the problem I'm finding with this whole thing, the problem of an equal force being applied to objects with differing "durability" to said force, yet being both equally unaffected by said force.

That isn't logically consistent, unless there is some external force saying - "well this is a human, let me just switch to that human level force for a bit"



Think of me, the guy pushing the swing, as the force of the earths atmosphere while spinning, my "push force" is going to be consistent no matter what, there's no reason for me to be able to push an adult and send them into the air, but when I push a child with the same force they are propelled to the same extent, the weight is different, the durability of each object is different, the child should be harmed at the end of this.

 

[_incelinside]

I never said it loses its momentum completely, of course it has to slow down, hence the hover for an hour thing, but again the thing pulling against the helicopter (atmosphere) is moving at 1000mph, so again I ask, if that force is enough to move a helicopter at a consistent speed of 1000mph, how does that same force not flaten a human sky diver mid air, sky diving should be impossible.

That''s the part that doesn't make sense, the helicopter moves at the earths speed due to the initial momentum after take off, good, that makes sense, but now its in the air hovering for 30 mins, whats keeping it moving at that momentum, the answer is the atmosphere around it that is also moving at the earths speed right?

Ok, so the atmosphere is strong enough a "buffer" to "pull/push" a helicopter so that it maintains a relative momentum to keep up with the earth, but that same force applied to a human sky diver doesn't kill them instantly and sends them flying frantically in the direction of the earths spin?

To explain my point further:

If I take an adult human at a park and tell them to get on a swing, and I push them enough to get them high in the air that would be a significant force right, now imagine now I took a child and put them on the swing, and pushed with the exact same force I used to push the adult, if what you are saying here is correct, that child would not feel any difference in speed, any difference in force, they would not be propelled up into the air due to having a weight difference, they would for some reason move at the same speed as when I pushed the adult.

Do you see the problem I'm finding with this whole thing, the problem of an equal force being applied to objects with differing "durability" to said force, yet being both equally unaffected by said force.

That isn't logically consistent, unless there is some external force saying - "well this is a human, let me just switch to that human level force for a bit"



Think of me, the guy pushing the swing, as the force of the earths atmosphere while spinning, my "push force" is going to be consistent no matter what, there's no reason for me to be able to push an adult and send them into the air, but when I push a child with the same force the are propelled to the same extent, the weight is different, the durability of each object is different, the child should be harmed at the end of this.

The atmosphere doesn't have anything to do with things, it doesn't apply any force or pull to keep object moving at the same rate earth is. The reason objects move with earth is because the objects are traveling with the same constant velocity and are therefore in the same frame of reference. Imagine you are in a plane moving at a constant speed, you are still able to get up and walk even though the plane is traveling at 500mph. A resultant force only occurs when there is a difference in velocity or an acceleration. Everything originating from earths mass is already moving at the same velocity as earth so there is no force needed to keep it moving with earth.

 

[BrendioEEE]

Someone more "qualified" than you figured it out so don't worry about it bro haha

 

[BlkPillPres]

The atmosphere doesn't have anything to do with things, it doesn't apply any force or pull to keep object moving at the same rate earth is

Now you aren't making any sense at all, there has to be something that continuously applies the same force over something hovering, there's no reason for it to move.

You don't realize you've now created another weird problem. If what you're saying is true, and there is no force being further acted upon the helicopter after it leaves the ground, and the intial momentum alone is enough to keep it moving with the earth INDEFINITELY

The you stating that there exists a set amount of time that the helicopter could fly against the direction of the earths spin, where it would lose all its momentum, and THEN it would reach a point where the earth would be moving at 1000mph beneath it. You've created a big problem here, because if there is nothing to consistently apply said force against an object, then if said object can remain airborne long enough while flying in the opposite direction of the initial force, it would eventually reach a point where it is no longer affected by the momentum.

We've reached the same problem, we've only just taken a roundabout where of getting there.

TLDR - No continuously applied force = a possible and eventual instance where the helicopter is not moving at all

 

[Rice Cel]

Aliens mayne

 

[Rice Cel]

damn that avatar so ugly

Mogs me

 

[EyesAreSoCold]

Where is that guy who had some math stuff in his custom title or signature

High IQ thread

 

[FukkenLoser]

I step on an escalator and I can feel it moving, even though I'm moving with it. I can feel myself being carried by it.

You actually don't feel it moving, you're actually visualising the environment around you moving, if you were in a completely darkened room and got on an escalator, you would have no idea you were moving, try putting your head down in a car and after awhile you won't feel yourself moving anymore.

When an earth quake happens we all feel it

An earthquake is like if someone hit the breaks in their car, you feel it because you're still moving forward at the same speed, while the car is slowing down. An earthquake throws the normal forces of Earth's rotation and revolution all out of alignment by shaking.

Then I think, ok but what if I jump in the air

The answer for that also makes sense and its basically the same thing as above, I jumped in the air while the earth was still moving, so I'm still being moved at that relative speed, so even if I jump i'll just land back in that same spot.

Yeah, correct, its like if you moved around in a car, you can change positions move your limbs all you want, but that doesn't affect your entire bodies forward momentum from the car.

I can't come up with an answer that makes sense as to why the helicopter would not have traveled 1000 miles just by hovering. Of course the helicopter still has the force of the earths spin being applied to it before taking off, but its been in the air for an hour uninfluenced by that force.

The air is influencing the helicopter. Try sticking your hand out of a car, your hand will fly backwards because you have left the "atmosphere" of the car. The earth's atmosphere is like a car with its windows up everything in there will move at the rate of the vehicle, plus the forces placed on them from inside the car. (In this case, the helicopter is counteracting Earth's gravity)

 

[_incelinside]

the intial momentum alone is enough to keep it moving with the earth INDEFINITELY

This is correct, the misconception you are having is that a continuous force is needed to keep a object moving at a constant velocity, in reality force is only needed to change velocity, if you throw a ball in a vacuum with no air molecules to slow it down or dissipate its momentum it will maintain its path and keep traveling at the same velocity it left your hand indefinitely.
think of the helicopter as a extension of earth, the materials used to build it all origiate from earth and are moving at the same velocity the entire time.

 

[BrendioEEE]

You actually don't feel it moving, you're actually visualising the environment around you moving

What kind of Escalators are you going on my guy? When was the last time you were on one? You can definitely feel it. I remember when I was younger I used to mess around a lot with Escalators and Elevators because of where my parents worked, you definitely feel it even if you close your eyes.

 

[FukkenLoser]

I never said it loses its momentum completely, of course it has to slow down, hence the hover for an hour thing, but again the thing pulling against the helicopter (atmosphere) is moving at 1000mph, so again I ask, if that force is enough to move a helicopter at a consistent speed of 1000mph, how does that same force not flaten a human sky diver mid air, sky diving should be impossible.

It's not slowing down at all simply counteracting Earth's gravity

That's the part that doesn't make sense, the helicopter moves at the earths speed due to the initial momentum after take off, good, that makes sense, but now its in the air hovering for 30 mins, whats keeping it moving at that momentum, the answer is the atmosphere around it that is also moving at the earths speed right?

The Earth's rotation is "pushing" it, just like everything else on the planet and just like everything else in the car analogy

Ok, so the atmosphere is strong enough a "buffer" to "pull/push" a helicopter so that it maintains a relative momentum to keep up with the earth, but that same force applied to a human sky diver doesn't kill them instantly and sends them flying frantically in the direction of the earths spin?

If I take a tractor trailer and accelerate it to 60 mph, and I take a car and accelerate it to 60 mph. It doesn't matter the difference in mass, they are still both going 60 mph. It may require more gas and time to get the tractor trailer up to 60 mph but once its going 60 mph, then thats how fast its going. Not sure what the question is, so my explanation might not make sense.

What kind of Escalators are you going on my guy? When was the last time you were on one? You can definitely feel it. I remember when I was younger I used to mess around a lot with Escalators and Elevators because of where my parents worked, you definitely feel it even if you close your eyes.

If you had literally no frame of reference to the world around you, you wouldn't feel it, the rational part of your brain knows that your on an escalator though, so it tries to simulate the feeling of movement, that's why when you close your eyes you feel queasy. You're confusing your brain

 

[BlkPillPres]

What kind of Escalators are you going on my guy? When was the last time you were on one?

I think he has stairs confused with escalators, I can close my eyes and feel it moving, this is some existential crisis shit, their brains keep coming up for excuses for what obviously makes no sense at all.

This is correct, the misconception you are having is that a continuous force is needed to keep a object moving at a constant velocity, in reality force is only needed to change velocity, if you throw a ball in a vacuum with no air molecules to slow it down or dissipate its momentum it will maintain its path and keep traveling at the same velocity it left your hand indefinitely.
think of the helicopter as a extension of earth, the materials used to build it all origiate from earth and are moving at the same velocity the entire time.

Again I repeat, what I said, you've said nothing to get rid of the point I make here:

You've created a big problem here, because if there is nothing to consistently apply said force against an object, then if said object can remain airborne long enough while flying in the opposite direction of the initial force, it would eventually reach a point where it is no longer affected by the momentum.

We've reached the same problem, we've only just taken a roundabout where of getting there.

TLDR - No continuously applied force = a possible and eventual instance where the helicopter is not moving at all

So do you agree with me that since no continuous force is applied, if a helicopter moved in the opposite direction of the earths rotation long enough, it would reach a point where the intial momentum is now ZERO, and the earth would move at 1000mph beneath it?

If there is no continuous force being applied here, and the helicopter is using its own force to move against the initial force of momentum, then at some point its going to slow down enough to where it is no longer moving at the earths speed, like I've said we've reached the same problem, that its actually possible to do this is a reality.

 

[BrendioEEE]

If you had literally no frame of reference to the world around you, you wouldn't feel it, the rational part of your brain knows that your on an escalator though, so it tries to simulate the feeling of movement, that's why when you close your eyes you feel queasy. You're confusing your brain

OR Yunno Occam's Razor, it's moving, and I can feel it moving. Simple way to prove this aswell, blindfold a bunch of people for an experiment, put them on an escalator, and an elevator or other various things of motion , and ask them what they feel. I guarantee they'll say they feel like they're moving or some form of motion. You can feel motions on steady planes, trains, a bus, car, elevator, escalator, etc.

There's a reason why it's called Theoretical Physics and not Physics.

I think he has stairs confused with escalators, I can close my eyes and feel it moving, this is some existential crisis shit, their brains keep coming up for excuses for what obviously makes no sense at all.

Yeah you don't even have to be a Flat Earther or conspiracy theorist to recognize all the bullshit in many of the Modern Scientific fields. The absolute state of Academia. It's just cognitive dissonance.

 

[_incelinside]

I think he has stairs confused with escalators, I can close my eyes and feel it moving, this is some existential crisis shit, their brains keep coming up for excuses for what obviously makes no sense at all.



Again I repeat, what I said, you've said nothing to get rid of the point I make here:


So do you agree with me that since no continuous force is applied, if a helicopter moved in the opposite direction of the earths rotation long enough, it would reach a point where the intial momentum is now ZERO, and the earth would move at 1000mph beneath it?

If there is no continuous force being applied here, and the helicopter is using its own force to move against the initial force of momentum, then at some point its going to slow down enough to where it is no longer moving at the earths speed, like I've said we've reached the same problem, that its actually possible to do this is a reality.

Yes, what exactly is the problem here? If the helicopter uses its fuel to accelerate in the opposite direction of earth it will reach a point where the earth is spinning relative to it, it will simply be traveling at the speed the earth spins. It's momentum may be 0 relative to the position of the sun but not to the rotation of the earth. Motion is all relative.
Are you asking for a more fundemental explanation of newtonian mechanics?

 

[Six]

Low IQ thread.

 

[blickpall]

It's not slowing down at all simply counteracting Earth's gravity




The Earth's rotation is "pushing" it, just like everything else on the planet and just like everything else in the car analogy




If I take a tractor trailer and accelerate it to 60 mph, and I take a car and accelerate it to 60 mph. It doesn't matter the difference in mass, they are still both going 60 mph. It may require more gas and time to get the tractor trailer up to 60 mph but once its going 60 mph, then thats how fast its going. Not sure what the question is, so my explanation might not make sense.



If you had literally no frame of reference to the world around you, you wouldn't feel it, the rational part of your brain knows that your on an escalator though, so it tries to simulate the feeling of movement, that's why when you close your eyes you feel queasy. You're confusing your brain

A lot of this is wrong, or at least uses poor analogies and explanations that don't have to do with the problem at hand.

@BlkPillPres For lack or a better analogy, your arguments are like those of a math student who has just learned about real numbers and encountered a problem with the square root of negative 1 (i). Everything you know and understand to be true is telling you that i cannot exist, and you make arguments based on what you know and understand. The problem isn't with I, it's with your limited understanding. I can't blame you for arguing against physics that you don't understand, but instead of spending so much time fighting off of the foundation of your limited understanding (and arguing against people in here who aren't explaining things well or are simply wrong), why don't you do some research on your own until you understand the fundamental properties that make the helicopter problem a reality?

I don't know if you are too young to have taken physics or you never went that far in it, or it was taught poorly, but if the word "vector" means anything to you then you should be able to draw a force vector diagram that explains all of this. Also, keep in mind that gravity is not a force that pushes things "down," that's just your limited frame of reference.

 

[BlkPillPres]

you claimed to have a tested IQ of 145

I think you have me confused with someone else

Also, keep in mind that gravity is not a force that pushes things "down," that's just your limited frame of reference.

What does it do as a force then, because if it was a continuous multi-directional force then we would basically be "falling" in all directions at once, so we couldn't move at all. So in what direction is the force of gravity being applied if not the only direction we experience it being applied (down)?

"why don't you do some research on your own until you understand the fundamental properties that make the helicopter problem a reality? " - True but what if its all lies, then won't I inevitably reach the conclusion that was intended for me to reach, the only information we have on these things is whats provided to us, so researching is pointless as it will always point to what is already claimed, only an actual personal experiment could prove or disprove these things.

Either way I guess its pointless to keep arguing on about this, good talk anyways

Also the whole "you just don't understand" thing sounds a lot like when a religious person says "you can't comprehend what God does".

Yes, what exactly is the problem here?

None then I guess, if you are agreeing such a thing is possible.

 

[Deleted member 14577]

The earth is round and we live on the inside. The sun is in the middle.

 

[FukkenLoser]

A lot of this is wrong, or at least uses poor analogies and explanations that don't have to do with the problem at hand.

@BlkPillPres For lack or a better analogy, your arguments are like those of a math student who has just learned about real numbers and encountered a problem with the square root of negative 1 (i). Everything you know and understand to be true is telling you that i cannot exist, and you make arguments based on what you know and understand. The problem isn't with I, it's with your limited understanding. I can't blame you for arguing against physics that you don't understand, but instead of spending so much time fighting off of the foundation of your limited understanding (and arguing against people in here who aren't explaining things well or are simply wrong), why don't you do some research on your own until you understand the fundamental properties that make the helicopter problem a reality?

I don't know if you are too young to have taken physics or you never went that far in it, or it was taught poorly, but if the word "vector" means anything to you then you should be able to draw a force vector diagram that explains all of this. Also, keep in mind that gravity is not a force that pushes things "down," that's just your limited frame of reference.

my b

 

[blickpall]

What does it do as a force then, because if it was a continuous multi-directional force then we would basically be "falling" in all directions at once, so we couldn't move at all. So in what direction is the force of gravity being applied if not the only direction we experience it being applied (down)?

I'll try to explain as best I can when I get off work.

Also the whole "you just don't understand" thing sounds a lot like when a religious person says "you can't comprehend what God does".

If I said something to you in a language you don't understand, you wouldn't understand what I said, and it would have nothing to do with dogma but with knowledge and mastery. Similarly, not understanding a math problem is due to one's lack of understanding. Same with physics. If your knowledge of the subject is limited, you won't understand something more advanced and it has nothing to do with some sort of obstinate nature of the person you're talking with. I thought I made that clear with the analogy I made.

 

[BlkPillPres]

I'll try to explain as best I can when I get off work.

Thanks but don't bother, I'm sure you have more important things to do, this is the kinda thing were I'll likely only believe it by "observing" it myself.

One good thing came out of this thread, it was a nice change of pace to the usual low effort threads like - [Rage Fuel] - Women's Lives On Easy Mode. The same kinds of threads we see being spammed everyday.

I left the site for a few months a while ago because I got tired of that.

 

[TINMAN]

I step on an escalator and I can feel it moving,

But the earth, this huge land mass were all standing on, is spinning at the speed of around 1000 miles per hour but we never feel such an extreme movement

What you feel when you step on an escalator is a CHANGE in your velocity, also known as acceleration. You feel a force on you because acceleration is caused by force. Force = mass x acceleration

The earth is spinning at 1000 miles/hr, but it's not CHANGING its velocity at all, so you're not accelerating. Hence you won't feel any force.

Ok, so what if someone takes a helicopter and hovers in mid air for an hour

I can't come up with an answer that makes sense as to why the helicopter would not have traveled 1000 miles just by hovering. Of course the helicopter still has the force of the earths spin being applied to it before taking off, but its been in the air for an hour uninfluenced by that force.

What you are touching on here is the concept of angular momentum. When an object starts moving, it will keep moving in that direction until an outside force acts on it. It is possible to have a force act on an object, WITHOUT that object slowing down. If you accelerate something at a 90 degree angle to its linear momentum, it will TURN instead of SLOWING DOWN. When an object is in this situation, such that it has a constant tangential velocity, with a constant force perpendicular(90 degree angle) to that velocity, it is known as having angular momentum.

When the helicopter leaves the earth, it is traveling 1000 km/h in a certain direction. The force of gravity always acts at a 90 degree angle to this direction. So, the helicopter never actually lost that 1000 km/h velocity, it is just having the velocity "turn" along the surface of the earth.

 

[lastchancel]

All of Earth is spinning, you are mistaking the atmosphere for being different from the soil, the atmosphere spins with the Earth. Think of the atmosphere and the ground as one, they spin together, there's a slight difference but it's negligible for a helicopter ride. Leaving Earth in a straight line in a rocket and coming back along the exact same line will end you up in an entirely different place because of the rotation of Earth.

Also you don't feel Earths movement because it's not resisting against anything, it's spinning in a partial vacuum, it's spinning in essentially nothingness, there's no resistance to generate any sort of sensations. When you are going up an elevator you are resisting air and gravity and can feel this resistance. When there's an earthquake, there's a whole lot of resistance between the colliding tectonic plates. Spinning ball of matter in nothingness = no resistance = no sensation.