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Serious How come moralfags all have different definitions of morality?

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Personalityinkwell

mentally crippled by lonely teen years
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And specifically, I said different definitions of morality, not different moral codes.

Some will say "what's right or wrong", some will say "not being a psychopath" some will say "what God said", (which God btw? There's so many religions.)

Let's just face it, morality does not exist. Morality is taught to young kids using guilt. Guilt is just a form of shame, and shame is just connected to your ego.


Just get over it, morality is a made up concept that is always changing throughout societies in order to keep the masses in check. There are no objective morals they are all man-made.
 
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It's simple. Culture determines your way of thinking, regardless if you want or not.
 
Morality is for those who own it. Who owns it? Rich. Who's always right? Rich. And the poor is fucked.
 
It's simple. Culture determines your way of thinking, regardless if you want or not.
My culture never said it was ok to fuck corpses and kill niggers?
 
Because morality follows codes of ethics, those codes of ethics vary from person to person because of different philosophies

This debate over what is right or wrong wouldn’t exist if everyone’s brains worked the same way and everyone had the same opinion. The reason for there being no agreement over morality is the same as why people have been arguing over the “perfect” or “best” form of government for the past thousand years.

People are different. That’s literally it.
There are no objective morals they are all man-made.

Yeah, that’s kinda what philosophy is lol
 
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@carticel u might be interested in this bc it’s based on philosophy
 
Morality is a retarded, bluepilled concept. A fantasy of the weak about how the rich and powerfull are the bad guys and they will suffer in hell but wait, you can't just kill them right away, it's AgAiNsT tHe LaW. It's most important function is to keep the wagecucks from revolting.
Morality is for those who own it. Who owns it? Jews. Who's always right? Jews. And the goyim are fucked.
 
OP, you and others seem to be woefully uninformed and uneducated about the subject of ethics (moral philosophy). It's a major branch in philosophy.

Frankly, it's embarrassing that it's being handwaived away. I'm seeing a ton of sophomoric arguments that fail to grasp the ideas within it.

In BlkPillPres' thread, his major premise is that the elites prescribe a morality for the plebs that they themselves don't follow. It's true that they prescribe a value system that they themselves don't adhere to. But he then conflates a value system and a ruleset (laws) with a moral system. They are not the same thing. I value truth and higher education above mindless entertainment, for example. That's not part of my moral value system, however, since those moral beliefs (whatever I may believe inside) say nothing of the of the moral values of the action like studying vs playing video games. There can be overlap, but one is not logically necessitated by the other. He then uses the that premise of a morality prescribed by the elites, as well as their hypocrisy of not following those rules themselves to then conclude that morality therefore doesn't exist.

No, excuse me, hang on. The conclusion doesn't follow. There are huge gaps in reasoning there. But it's OK, but morality is all bullshit and it doesn't exist ( :feelsseriously: ).

If you make scientific claims, you need experimental data to back it up. If you make philosophical claims, you need arguments to back it up. Saying that morality doesn't exist is a philosophical claim that requires a lot of legwork.
 
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Its not illegaly to do sommething morally wrong so who gives a fuck about a normies opinion
 
OP, you and others seem to be woefully uninformed and uneducated about the subject of ethics (moral philosophy). It's a major branch in philosophy.

Frankly, it's embarrassing that it's being handwaived away. I'm seeing a ton of sophomoric arguments that fail to grasp the ideas within it.

In BlkPillPres' thread, his major premise is that the elites prescribe a morality for the plebs that they themselves don't follow. It's true that they prescribe a value system that they themselves don't adhere to. But he then conflates a value system and a ruleset (laws) with a moral system. They are not the same thing. I value truth and higher education above mindless entertainment, for example. That's not part of my moral value system, however, since those moral beliefs (whatever I may believe inside) say nothing of the of the moral values of the action like studying vs playing video games. There can be overlap, but one is not logically necessitated the other. He then uses the that premise of a morality prescribed by the elites, as well as their hypocrisy of not following those rules themselves to then conclude that morality therefore doesn't exist.

No, excuse me, hang on. The conclusion doesn't follow. There are huge gaps in reasoning there. But it's OK, but morality is all bullshit and it doesn't exist ( :feelsseriously: ).

If you make scientific claims, you need experimental data to back it up. If you make philosophical claims, you need arguments to back it up. Saying that morality doesn't exist is a philosophical claim that requires a lot of legwork.
based philosophycel
 
Me = Good
You = Bad

Simple as
 
And specifically, I said different definitions of morality, not different moral codes.

Some will say "what's right or wrong", some will say "not being a psychopath" some will say "what God said", (which God btw? There's so many religions.)

Let's just face it, morality does not exist. Morality is taught to young kids using guilt. Guilt is just a form of shame, and shame is just connected to your ego.


Just get over it, morality is a made up concept that is always changing throughout societies in order to keep the masses in check. There are no objective morals they are all man-made.
Morality is subjective.

You can be in the middle and still be considered a prune or an animal, depending on the person that judges you on the matter.
 
Morality is a retarded, bluepilled concept. A fantasy of the weak about how the rich and powerfull are the bad guys and they will suffer in hell but wait, you can't just kill them right away, it's AgAiNsT tHe LaW. It's most important function is to keep the wagecucks from revolting.

That's actually the true purpose of morality, to keep the low tier class of society in line, by making them police themselves like idiots, I just lol at how fuckers line up at wallstreet to protest the 1%, just fucking band together and take their wealth by force if you think its so unfair and they are "the bad guy", but of course that would make them "the bad guy too", so they have no choice but to just complain and do nothing

JFL at normies
 
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At this day and age God is dead and we dictate morality. That's why our world is such a joke.
 
At this day and age God is dead and we dictate morality. That's why our world is such a joke.

It has more to do with foids having rights. But there is a connection to secularism and women's rights so I get your point.
 
Just get over it, morality is a made up concept that is always changing throughout societies in order to keep the masses in check. There are no objective morals they are all man-made

By this argument, incels have no right to criticize women.
 
By this argument, incels have no right to criticize women.

Sure we do, we have the "right" to do it because there are no laws against it
 
It's true that they prescribe a value system that they themselves don't adhere to. But he then conflates a value system and a ruleset (laws) with a moral system.

:feelskek::feelskek::feelskek::feelskek::feelskek::feelskek:

Dude I legit think you are trolling right now, this shit is too funny, its like you are saying BS on purpose to get a response

I don't think you even understand the meaning of the word conflate, because what I did was the exact opposite of conflate laws and a moral system, conflate would mean I was asserting they were basically one and the same, but I am OUTRIGHT SAYING ONE DOESN'T EXIST AND THE OTHER DOES, how the fuck is that conflating, are you retarded?

Dude quit while you're behind, you are starting to come off as a troll because the shit you are saying is blatantly false, its like you are trying to aggravate others on purpose

If you make scientific claims, you need experimental data to back it up. If you make philosophical claims, you need arguments to back it up. Saying that morality doesn't exist is a philosophical claim that requires a lot of legwork.

Ironically the same can be said about the philosophical claim that morality does exist, and no, the fact that its accepted by the majority of people is not enough, the blue pill is accepted by most humans as how the world works and we'd both agree its completely false
 
Sure we do, we have the "right" to do it because there are no laws against it

If your notions of right and wrong are dictated solely by the laws of the land in which you currently reside in, then right and wrong are functionally meaningless, and you should be using the terms legal and illegal.

The exact same thing applies to "rights", since those too are prescribed the state power.
 
Sure we do, we have the "right" to do it because there are no laws against it

That's not what i meant.

The argument against the behavior of women is based on an understanding of its immorality. If morality is relative and it's just make believe (as social construct, if you will) than incels have no ground by which to criticize women. If you really believe in your philosophy the only way to stand by it is to declare there's nothing wrong with women being hypergamous, egotistic and selfish creature.
 
By this argument, incels have no right to criticize women.

Is morality the sole reason for criticizing women's behaviors?

I say obviously no, their actions have widespread social and economic issues that affect a lot of peoples lives negatively, and if you want to have a stable society then women must be kept in check, if the current trends continue, "civil" male participation in society will decrease, which means more crime, and a weaker economy

"Female empowerment" just isn't sustainable in the long term, we don't even have to make any moral arguments, in fact none of my arguments have ever had anything to do with morality when it comes to women and feminism
 
That's not what i meant.

Then word it better next time you stupid bluepilled faggot

The argument against the behavior of women is based on an understanding of its immorality. If morality is relative and it's just make believe (as social construct, if you will) than incels have no ground by which to criticize women. If you really believe in your philosophy the only way to stand by it is to declare there's nothing wrong with women being hypergamous, egotistic and selfish creature.

Wrong, when incels judge women it's not based purely on morality. It's based on scientific studies that say that sleeping around is impairing their ability to pair bond. Also, when it comes to dishonesty, we are still allowed to criticize them becuase of the effects it has on society, if morality doesn't exist that does not mean we have to stop criticizing, we can do whatever the fuck we want.

Also:


Is morality the sole reason for criticizing women's behaviors?

I say obviously no, their actions have widespread social and economic issues that affect a lot of peoples lives negatively, and if you want to have a stable society then women must be kept in check, if the current trends continue, "civil" male participation in society will decrease, which means more crime, and a weaker economy

"Female empowerment" just isn't sustainable in the long term, we don't even have to make any moral arguments, in fact none of my arguments have ever had anything to do with morality when it comes to women and feminism
 
When topics like these are made, the moralfags of this forum is no where to be seen JFL.
 
It's based on scientific studies that say that sleeping around is impairing their ability to pair bond. Also, when it comes to dishonesty, we are still allowed to criticize them becuase of the effects it has on society

This

You know somebody is a huge moralfag when they admit that they only hate hypergamy, paternity fraud, divorce laws, promiscuity, etc BECAUSE ITS IMMORAL

Seriously that is some NPC tier thinking, that's really it for these guys, these things disgust them and make them feel uncomfortable and that's the be all end all as to why its "bad"

That's why I'll always assert that moral people are ironically the most immoral kind of people, because they are really just followers, if they were born 100 years ago they'd have no problem fucking a 15 year old, but because they are born today fucking anything but an 18 year old is "immoral", and they lack the self awareness to realize and admit that this rule is arbitrary and only exists because of the era they are in

Moral people are the most immoral, they'd do "immoral" things in a past timeline and feel justified doing it, things that they'd speak ill of today, no consistency in their way of life at all
 
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This

You know somebody is a huge moralfag when they admit that they only hate hypergamy, paternity fraud, divorce laws, promiscuity, etc BECAUSE ITS IMMORAL

Seriously that is some NPC tier thinking, that' really it for these guys, these things disgust them and make them feel uncomfortable and that's the be all end all as to why its "bad"

That's why I'll always assert that moral people are ironically the most immoral kind of people, because they are really just followers, if they were born 100 years ago they'd have no problem fucking a 15 year old, but because they are born today fucking anything but an 18 year old is "immoral", and they lack the self awareness to realize and admit that this rule is abitrary and only exists because of the era they are in

Moral people are the most immoral, they'd do "immoral" things in a past timeline and feel justified doing it, things that they'd speak ill of today
Being moral is the dumbest thing you could possibly do as an incel. It only holds you back further than you already are. It’s also cucked because you’re essentially just bowing down to the governemnt and following their rules that keep you controlled.
 
Is morality the sole reason for criticizing women's behaviors?

I say obviously no, their actions have widespread social and economic issues that affect a lot of peoples lives negatively, and if you want to have a stable society then women must be kept in check, if the current trends continue, "civil" male participation in society will decrease, which means more crime, and a weaker economy

"Female empowerment" just isn't sustainable in the long term, we don't even have to make any moral arguments, in fact none of my arguments have ever had anything to do with morality when it comes to women and feminism

Well, this is the explanation everybody uses to criticize the behavior. It's a typical "Enlightened" utilitarian argument that is also used by people who do believe in morality or religion.

I have my disagreements with it, and one of the contradictions here is that while you are avoiding the question of morality by positing an utilitarian explanation for why a certain behavior is bad, you are falling back into morality by claiming that something being deleterious to the well being of society is in fact "bad", for why should anyone care if society is hurt or not?

With that said, from my perspective women's behavior IS actually immoral and that is regardless of the impact it has on society. As i see it something doesn't have to be bad for society to be "bad" as such. I actually believe many women and many Chads are going to hell because of their licentious behavior, which makes me kinda of the oddball man out here but you have to admit it's a perspective with an untapped potential.

Wrong, when incels judge women it's not based purely on morality. It's based on scientific studies that say that sleeping around is impairing their ability to pair bond. Also, when it comes to dishonesty, we are still allowed to criticize them becuase of the effects it has on society, if morality doesn't exist that does not mean we have to stop criticizing, we can do whatever the fuck we want.

Like i said in the previous post, worrying about the "good of society" is a moral question in itself, and in a world without morality there's no particular reason why women should care.

Furthermore, you could actually argue that women favoring only the top 20% of men is actually good for society since those men will produce better offspring, which i think is an argument some alt-right people actually put forth at some point. It's basically naturally selection at work. The men with good genes reproduce while those with bad genes do not, and if the man with bad genes doesn't like it, why should anybody care? It's for the "good" of society.

To be honest, i'll ask anyone here to consider where there isn't a direct line connecting the Enlightenment to the the modern world. It's a bit of a strange coincidence that the moment Europeans became "Enlightened" suddenly everything fell apart.
 
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That's actually the true purpose of morality, to keep the low tier class of society in line, by making them police themselves like idiots, I just lol at how fuckers line up at wallstreet to protest the 1%, just fucking band together and take their wealth by force if you think its so unfair and they are "the bad guy", but of course that would make them "the bad guy too", so they have no choice but to just complain and do nothing

JFL at normies


They are not the same thing. I value truth and higher education above mindless entertainment, for example. That's not part of my moral value system, however, since those moral beliefs (whatever I may believe inside) say nothing of the of the moral values of the action like studying vs playing video games. There can be overlap, but one is not logically necessitated by the other. He then uses the that premise of a morality prescribed by the elites, as well as their hypocrisy of not following those rules themselves to then conclude that morality therefore doesn't exist.

No, excuse me, hang on. The conclusion doesn't follow. There are huge gaps in reasoning there. But it's OK, but morality is all bullshit and it doesn't exist ( :feelsseriously: ).

If you make scientific claims, you need experimental data to back it up. If you make philosophical claims, you need arguments to back it up. Saying that morality doesn't exist is a philosophical claim that requires a lot of legwork.
[/QUOTE]
Ok.
[email protected]

That moralfag shit really fucked me up as a youngcel. It held the blackpill away from me for a long time. Like a psiber bully!
 
I actually believe many women and many Chads are going to hell because of their licentious behavior,

They can all just repent though once they've finished up their fun.
 
you are falling back into morality by claiming that something being deleterious to the well being of society is in fact "bad", for why should anyone care if society is hurt or not?

JFL again proving my point, you guys literally can't think of anything outside of the framework of morality, nobody is falling back into a moral argument, you can simply only process things under a convenient lense of "right" and "wrong" so you are percieving the argument as you already want it to be, its like confirmation bias

What I meant was something more obvious, but it will go over your head, and over @based_meme head too

SELFISHNESS

When people say they want a safe and stable society, they don't literally mean society, they mean THEMSELVES

Think about phrases like "protect the environment" or "save the planet"

Those things will do just fine no matter what, what humans mean by those phrases are "PROTECT HUMANITY (AS IN MYSELF AND MY CHILDREN)" and "SAVE OUR SPECIES (AS IN MYSELF AND MY CHILDREN)"

Global warming (if its as bad as people say) isn't really going to do shit to the planet, the planet will survive and change, its US that will die, all the "save the planet" BS, is nothing but SELF INTEREST AND SELF PRESERVATION MASQUERADING AS ALTRUISM

Which reminds me of that George Carlin joke:


I actually believe many women and many Chads are going to hell because of their licentious behavior, which makes me kinda of the oddball man out here but you have to admit it's a perspective with an untapped potential

It has zero potential, moralfaggotry is for illogical fools

First off, the bible has be edited and re-written so many times, I've even heard about a scroll that said hell isn't even an eternal place and everbody gets out at some point, and that scroll was purposefully covered up by the vatican and remains in their archives, so hell might not even be an issue, they'll do their time and they'll join you in heaven all the same

Also God sending people to hell for being immoral is the greatest irony, as he created humans with the capacity to be immoral in the first place

Imagine of you were speaking to a coder who created an AI Bot in Python, he purposefully adds a function to its library that makes it create errors, but he introduces a probability mechanic that allows it to choose whether or not it can use that function, now what would you think of the coder if he said he's going to run that AI bot in a simulation where it gets endlessly deleted and recreated for it executing functions the coder purposefully gave it the ability to do

Lets go even more abstract and mention that IT IS THE CODER THAT IS DECIDING WHAT IS AN ERROR OR NOT, because since the coder creates the world in which the bot interacts, he defines the rules

The coder could choose to simply define the error data and something else that could be utilized in some way, but the coder chose not to do so

I hope you get the point I'm making, think of what SIN IS, trying and think about it abstractly, its a set of rules that only has meaning because God decided so

Do you not see the weird irony of God defining "fornication" (AN ACT CONSISTING OF THE OUR SOLE MEANS OF REPRODUCTION) as a "sin" within the simulation he created, why go out of your way to do that as a creator, it doesn't make sense, why wouldn't you make procreation happen through other means, then fornication being a sin would make sense

Like i said in the previous post, worrying about the "good of society" is a moral question in itself

It really isn't, your bias is just so strong that you LITERALLY CAN'T process reality outside the framework of morality, its really sad for an incel to be so limited in their thinking, were supposed to be the ones who aren't NPC's, but you are really no different than a normie, you are just mad you are missing out on all of the fun they are, so your cope is that they will suffer for eternity afterwards
 
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you are just mad you are missing out on all of the fun they are, so your cope is that they will suffer for eternity afterwards

religion in a nutshell
 
They can all just repent though once they've finished up their fun.

Something I've also talked about:

Also a lot of coping incels don't realize THEY ARE JUST GOING TO BE INCELS IN HEAVEN TOO:
 
They can all just repent though once they've finished up their fun.

To repent means to alter the fabric of your being in order to match that of Christ. Once that happens sins are obliterated because you have taken upon the nature of that which is sinless. By that point your ego, the one capable of committing sins, is already gone so anything you may have done previously ceases to matter.

HOWEVER, it doesn't take a genius to understand such a transformation is not actually easy and is incumbent on:

1) Being partially there already.
2) Not having committed sins strong enough to make the transformation impossible.

This is a big difference between Orthodox Christianity and Protestantism. The latter is too "human", too concerned with will rather than actual alterations and transformations of the being (as in the case of Theosis). In Protestantism, your nature as that of a fallen human being is invincible and you are saved entirely by Grace, which is not earned by given freely. In traditional Christianity, you have to work for it and working for it means working on your nature until it literally becomes one with that of Christ, so that salvation hinges entirely on what you actually are at the level of your being. In Orthodox Christianity, there's an actual ontological change in your state of being, so in order to go to heaven in the thereafter you already have to inhabit it here on earth, which puts the question quite in a different light and shows how bad off most people in modern times actually are.
 
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Something I've also talked about:

Also a lot of coping incels don't realize THEY ARE JUST GOING TO BE INCELS IN HEAVEN TOO:

Yeah those are the topics I thought of. Very high IQ


To repent means to alter the fabric of your being in order to match that of Christ. Once that happens sins are obliterated because you have taken upon the nature of that which is sinless. By that point your ego, the one capable of committing sins, is already gone so anything you may have done previously ceases to matter.

HOWEVER, it doesn't take a genius to understand such a transformation is not actually easy and is incumbent on:

1) Being partially there already.
2) Not having committed sins strong enough to make the transformation impossible.

This is a big difference between Orthodox Christianity and Protestantism. The latter is too "human", too concerned with will rather than actual alterations and transformations of the being (as in the case of Theosis). In Protestantism, your nature as that of a fallen human being is invincible and you are saved entirely by Grace, which is not earned by given freely. In traditional Christianity, you have to work for it and working for it means working on your nature until it literally becomes one with that of Christ, so that salvation hinges entirely on what you actually are at the level of your being. In Orthodox Christianity, there's an actual ontological change in your state of being, so in order to go to heaven in the thereafter you already have to inhabit it here on earth, which puts the question quite in a different light and shows how bad off most people in modern times actually are.

Chad and Stacy will lose their sex drive in old age, it will be easy to repent then when they are settled down in their nice retirement home playing bingo every night.
 
1) Being partially there already.
2) Not having committed sins strong enough to make the transformation impossible.

Sorry dude, stop with the stupid copes, being this illogical doesn't suit an incel

1. You not getting laid doesn't make you "partially there", because you haven't even been "tested", you aren't having sex due to lack of choice, not due to strength of will, so you aren't "partially there" either

2. Fucking around isn't "strong enough to make the transformation impossible" no matter how bad you want it to be, in the bible God pretty much showed favor to "players", kind David is a good example, in the bible he even had hundreds of concubines and I'm pretty sure he's in heaven, and that's a guy who sent a man to the front of a battle field to die, just so that he could fuck his wife

The average normie has never killed, or committed any extreme act of violence, your entire framework for who gets into heaven is arbitrary and biased
 
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its really sad for an incel to be so limited in their thinking, were supposed to be the ones who aren't NPC's

But your kind of thinking is actually the default on the internet, so much so it has become a meme (the fedora wearing, "euphoric" free thinking neckbeard).

I'm actually the one thinking outside the box here and taking the contrary position to the vast majority of people out there who have internalized this Masonic, atheistic world view which produced the modern world.

Normies and NPCs are a different problem because they don't really "think" at all, so for them it doesn't really matter one way or another. Normies are basically what in Hinduism a referred to as "Shudra", a group of people concerned only with their immediate material concerns who have no conception or understanding of any kind of higher ideal. As such, their greatest virtue is that of obedience because that's pretty much the best that can be hoped for them.
 
Chad and Stacy will lose their sex drive in old age, it will be easy to repent then when they are settled down in their nice retirement home playing bingo every night.

This

@Opus132
Your God has practically almost set in stone that he's sent you to hell, even before you were born and were being formed in the womb, because by being unattractive God has set you up for a life where you will be "chasing sin and degeneracy" into your old age, while Chad and Stacey have already "sowed their wild oats" and thoroughly enjoyed degeneracy and are now moving on to living a "Godly Life".

You have it backwards, its the people who miss out on their chance to enjoy sinning in their youth that end up in hell, normies get to "have their fill" and "move on", the best way to stop being a sinner, is to have your fill of it, so that your disgust with the act exceeds your yearning for it, but that isn't going to happen when you are a sex starved incel who hasn't even gotten to get a whiff of pussy

A lot of us are going to be trying to just start having "sex lives" when were in your mid to late 30's, and a good bit of that will be prostitution, we won't get to the settle down phase maybe until were late 40's or 50's, we could die way before we get to that point, and our shitty lives have made us bitter and hateful of existence and everything God has created

God has made it so that we'd basically hate him and he's going to condemn us for it, he's a fucking psychopath, you'd have to be that to create a world like this

Most of us are fucked

I'm actually the one thinking outside the box here and taking the contrary position to the vast majority of people out there who have internalized this Masonic, atheistic world view which produced the modern world.

Dude, the majority of the planet is religious, are you on drugs?, you are part of the majority, most people are moralfags
 
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There are different schools of philosophical thought that produce ideas on ethics. That includes moral relativism, so you're not exempt from this even if you think you're above morality as a concept. Also, philosophers (largely people too busy sticking their noses in esoteric texts to exercise power over "the plebs") have been discussing what specific forms of morality should replace the objective morality of God for centuries. Nihilism is old well-tread ground, and humanity as a whole is largely past it.
 
But your kind of thinking is actually the default on the internet, so much so it has become a meme (the fedora wearing, "euphoric" free thinking neckbeard).

I'm actually the one thinking outside the box here and taking the contrary position to the vast majority of people out there who have internalized this Masonic, atheistic world view which produced the modern world.

Normies and NPCs are a different problem because they don't really "think" at all, so for them it doesn't really matter one way or another. Normies are basically what in Hinduism a referred to as "Shudra", a group of people concerned only with their immediate material concerns who have no conception or understanding of any kind of higher ideal. As such, their greatest virtue is that of obedience because that's pretty much the best that can be hoped for them.
I'm a lowiq buddhistcel that can't make any sound arguments for this topic but u are touching close on something I feel abt morality in the mundane sense vs morality in a 'bigger' sense
 
1. You not getting laid doesn't make you "partially there"

That's true, and i also happen to believe inceldom could be a prelude for hell also. I.E., you get to experience it here before you experience it afterwards (i happen to think Elliot Roger is such a case, for the record).

But earthly suffering is not "necessarily" a prelude to anything negative in the afterlife, and by the same token, earthly happiness could be a sign you are damned as much as the other way around. Funnily enough, this is actually a kind of refrain in the Quran, that people destined for the fire may actually be among those who enjoy life, "for a little while".

For the record, i'm not saying Chad is destined to hell for being Chad. I'm not in the habit of interpreting the Bible literally so your citation regarding King David could mean anything depending on interpretation but in any case there's nothing "evil" in sexuality in and of itself, only in sexuality gone awry. This seems to contradict Christian teachings in that sexuality as a whole is seen with suspicion there but that's mostly because Christianity is an "how" rather than "why" kind of religion so many of its teachings are intended for their practical effects and not because they must reflect the total truth. In that sense, there's no question that the sexual morality of the ancient Semitic world is different from that of the world created by Christianity but to explain what kind of mysteries are involved here would take us way off course here (Evola had quite a few interesting things to say about what those "harems" were actually about), and i'd rather move on to something that i think it's actually more crucial here:

The average normie has never killed, or committed any extreme act of violence, your entire framework for who gets into heaven or not is arbitrary and biased

Now this is interesting and gets to the heart of the issue here. As far i'm concerned, the place you end up in after this life is based on your state of being and ontological status in regards to the divine axis. This is what Christ meant when he said that the Kingdom of God is within you.

It's what you are inside that matters, not what you do externally, and external actions in themselves only have meaning when they influence the inner being.

So yes, it is possible to have never killed anyone and still go to hell, IF your being has descended to that level, however that may have come about.

And that brings us to the original point of this argument, that certain behaviors are bad in and of themselves, and not because of the effects they may have on society, all though i'm not saying that's not important as well. In that sense, it is worth pointing that to there's many ways society can be affected negatively, and spiritual injuries are as bad as any other kind, which is why for instance i happen to condemn modern culture as a whole, regardless of who does what to whom or what "consenting" adults do to each other. Even stuff like modern art is immensely evil to me and a "danger" to society, for the effect it has on the inner state of being of people (and effect the creators of this art are well aware of, btw).
 
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And that brings us to the original point of this argument, that certain behaviors are bad in and of themselves, and not because of the effects they may have on society

They really aren't though, because based on your belief system, there is nothing inherently bad about these things at all, they are just bad because God decided they were bad, and he created the rules for what is bad or good, but he could just as easily decided these things were allowable and then they would be so, that's the exact opposite of inherent, God is no different than a law maker saying that a guy who fucked a 17 year old committed rape (statutory rape), its just something he decided, no different than man's law, there is nothing inherently bad about the act of taking a penis and putting it into a vagina before marriage, if you really think this through you'd see how ridiculous this all is, because its God who created penis, vaginas and the concept of marriage to begin with

Imagine if I sat for a few minutes and dreamed up a world and some characters, I then dreamed up some actions for these characters to do AND THE ACTIONS I DON'T WANT THEM TO DO, and then decided a ruleset for those actions, and if they commit these bad acts I'll punish them, this shit is all in my head, I'm deciding everything, yet I'm acting as if I have no say on the matter, and its outside of my hands, and I have no choice but to punish them, as if some external force is pushing me to do it, as if I was forced to create the actions I didn't want them to do

It begs the question, DOES GOD HAVE A GOD?

Does God have no choice but to punish us for sin, because he is beholden to an external force that commands him to do so, if not God is just some crazy fuck, its ridiculous to create a universe and the rules, and then act as if you have no control over it, and you just have no choice but to punish your creations, God could snap his fingers and sin ceases to exist, so no we need to stop speaking about sin as if its something outside of God's control, and he's just trying to help us out and keep us safe, he created sin, sin doesn't exist with God deciding what a sin is
 
I'm a lowiq buddhistcel that can't make any sound arguments for this topic but u are touching close on something I feel abt morality in the mundane sense vs morality in a 'bigger' sense

From an oriental point of view, normies are those people who are firmly stuck on the level of Maya, the level of the "illusion", and cannot go beyond it. They are the people stuck staring the at shadows projected on the wall in the analogy of the cave Plato came up with.

This leads me another point that's worth discussing:

Dude, the majority of the planet is religious, are you on drugs?, you are part of the majority, most people are moralfags

Yes but there's being religious, and then there's being religious. There's a book by Ibn Arabi where he discusses how God can mean many things to different people and people of low understanding won't really practice religion as well as someone with an higher understanding so to be "religious" is not the same for all people, but each person can only be "religious" after their own gifts, knowledge and understanding and a majority of people in this age we live in a religious in a very bad and stupid sense.

The same applies to morality. For instance, the "just world" fallacy, which is the error of conflating two different realities, the world up there and the world down here, the world down here being the world that follows the law of the jungle and the world religion intended to take us out of, at least to a degree. In this world, bad things CAN happen to good people in fact it's sort one of the things religions always say. Things down here aren't really supposed to be great, or there wouldn't be a point in trying to ditch this life for the next.
There are different schools of philosophical thought that produce ideas on ethics. That includes moral relativism, so you're not exempt from this even if you think you're above morality as a concept. Also, philosophers (largely people too busy sticking their noses in esoteric texts to exercise power over "the plebs") have been discussing what specific forms of morality should replace the objective morality of God for centuries. Nihilism is old well-tread ground, and humanity as a whole is largely past it.

Right. To say "i have no opinion" is to have an opinion so even the philosophy of not having a philosophy is a philosophy and anybody who believes they are "free" from preconceptions is deluding themselves.
 
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Dude I legit think you are trolling right now, this shit is too funny, its like you are saying BS on purpose to get a response

I don't think you even understand the meaning of the word conflate, because what I did was the exact opposite of conflate laws and a moral system, conflate would mean I was asserting they were basically one and the same, but I am OUTRIGHT SAYING ONE DOESN'T EXIST AND THE OTHER DOES, how the fuck is that conflating, are you retarded?

Dude quit while you're behind, you are starting to come off as a troll because the shit you are saying is blatantly false, its like you are trying to aggravate others on purpose

Now you're moving the goalpost. Your initial argument was that elites prescribe a value system. Not a moral system and not a legal system, but a value system. You then conflated these ideas with the concept of morality and tried to argue against morality. I doubt you intended to strawman here, but that's what happened.

I outlined why they are separate and distinct (I'll do it again, just to make it abundantly clear), and now you're saying that the initial argument was that they're not one and the same. Well, that's kind of the point. Nobody ever said they were. You're interchanging different words which are different concepts altogether, hence conflating.

Your value system, for example, as far as I can tell, treats the acquisition of wealth and resources with the utmost importance. This statement says nothing about your morality (your personal beliefs on what is right or wrong). It seems that you're a strict hardcore utilitarian (surprise surprise, that's a moral system), where you place importance on outcomes and judge decisions accordingly.

Let's suppose another person comes along and says that he too places the acquisition of wealth and resources as the capstone of his value pyramid (pyramid metaphor conveys the hierarchy of importance well enough). For the sake of argument, let's say the rest of your values are perfectly aligned. You say, "great, all we gotta do is kill those 100 people over there and we'll have it all." He says, "wait, no, that's not cool. We can find another way that doesn't involve killing them." Right here, you have a clash of morals. You may be a strict (not a technical term) utilitarian where you believe the ends justify the means, but your friend might not share this view. Your value systems would be congruent, but not your moral systems.

Also, don't be asinine and dismiss having to defend your position by saying others are trolling. You can claim whatever you like, but if you don't defend it with sound and valid reasoning, it may as well be the ramblings of Kim Karsashian - equally worthless.

Ironically the same can be said about the philosophical claim that morality does exist, and no, the fact that its accepted by the majority of people is not enough, the blue pill is accepted by most humans as how the world works and we'd both agree its completely false

You really do not understand, friend. Morality is a philosophical concept that you define. You're making an ontological argument against a defined concept. It would be like if I defined a square (four sides of equal length, all sides facing each other where every side is exactly perpendicular to the other) and you scoffed that squares don't exist, because you don't see them in the real world. It's just not real bro.

Yeah, no shit it doesn't exist in the real concrete sense. Yeah, no shit it's not like laws that are codified and enforced by some authority (side note: laws and rights don't exist in the concrete sense either. They "exist" because we act and behave like they do. Rights do exist abstractly like the way integers exist.). It's a concept we apply to the actions and relations between conscious agents, as well as the valuations of those actions.

There seems to a major block that's preventing you from understating this concept (and it's application) and abstracting it away from the mundane (e.g., whether or not premarital sex is moral). This apparent block is why we can't have a productive discussion on this. You're stuck in a very specific philosophical box that you can't even look out of, and ironically you're telling the rest of us "moralfags" that we're stuck in the framework of morality. We're all "stuck" in some moral framework, by virtue of the concept as it applies to our being (conscious acting agents). It's a matter of realizing which one and being able to see the others. It's not about "breaking free." Sadly, you can't. All you'd be doing is jumping from one box to another. I'm not saying you have an intellectual limitation, but it's probably a combination of ignorance and stubbornness.

All of this might be clearer to you, if you study ethics (metaethics, as well) instead of being a bullheaded snob and pretentiously dismissing it. Your philosophical position is made completely juvenile when you don't properly defend it.
 
Pretty sure morality isn't completely different everywhere
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There are different schools of philosophical thought that produce ideas on ethics. That includes moral relativism, so you're not exempt from this even if you think you're above morality as a concept. Also, philosophers (largely people too busy sticking their noses in esoteric texts to exercise power over "the plebs") have been discussing what specific forms of morality should replace the objective morality of God for centuries. Nihilism is old well-tread ground, and humanity as a whole is largely past it.

That's what I've been tryin' to EXPLAIN to these motherfuckin' niggas for days now.
 
And specifically, I said different definitions of morality, not different moral codes.

Some will say "what's right or wrong", some will say "not being a psychopath" some will say "what God said", (which God btw? There's so many religions.)

Let's just face it, morality does not exist. Morality is taught to young kids using guilt. Guilt is just a form of shame, and shame is just connected to your ego.


Just get over it, morality is a made up concept that is always changing throughout societies in order to keep the masses in check. There are no objective morals they are all man-made.

Because morality is subjective. There were times when it was moral to fuck little boys in the ass in Greece.
 

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