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Experiment does free will exist?

does it?


  • Total voters
    48
  • Poll closed .
unsettling

unsettling

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by free will I mean the ability to act differently under the exactly same circumstances(which includes your state of mind), if you were to go back in time to the time when you clicked on this thread with the exactly same state of mind and same environment and same reasons that led up to that moment could you have chosen differently?
 
In a universe of causality, free will is impossible even in theory.
 
No bro

Researchers also analyzed EEG recordings for each trial with respect to the timing of the action. It was noted that brain activity involved in the initiation of the action, primarily centered in the secondary motor cortex, occurred, on average, approximately five hundred milliseconds before the trial ended with the pushing of the button. That is to say, researchers recorded mounting brain activity related to the resultant action as many as three hundred milliseconds before subjects reported the first awareness of conscious will to act. In other words, apparently conscious decisions to act were preceded by an unconscious buildup of electrical activity within the brain - the change in EEG signals reflecting this buildup came to be called Bereitschaftspotential or readiness potential. As of 2008, the upcoming outcome of a decision could be found in study of the brain activity in the prefrontal and parietal cortex up to 7 seconds before the subject was aware of their decision.
 
I don't see how it could exist tbh.
In a universe of causality, free will is impossible even in theory.
Anything else is pure cope.
 
No bro no man no broman
 
In a universe of causality, free will is impossible even in theory.

True it is logically impossible. Even if you believed that random events are possible then everything would be either random (and thus not willed) or caused (and thus not willed). There is nothing other than random or caused. Free will is actually a flawed concept that makes no sense. How would will be free?
 
In a universe of causality, free will is impossible even in theory.
I don't see how it could exist tbh.
True it is logically impossible. Even if you believed that random events are possible then everything would be either random (and thus not willed) or caused (and thus not willed). There is nothing other than random or caused. Free will is actually a flawed concept that makes no sense. How would will be free?

yeah lack of free will is pretty self evident, I was trying to determine how introspective this community is tbh
 
No bro

Researchers also analyzed EEG recordings for each trial with respect to the timing of the action. It was noted that brain activity involved in the initiation of the action, primarily centered in the secondary motor cortex, occurred, on average, approximately five hundred milliseconds before the trial ended with the pushing of the button. That is to say, researchers recorded mounting brain activity related to the resultant action as many as three hundred milliseconds before subjects reported the first awareness of conscious will to act. In other words, apparently conscious decisions to act were preceded by an unconscious buildup of electrical activity within the brain - the change in EEG signals reflecting this buildup came to be called Bereitschaftspotential or readiness potential. As of 2008, the upcoming outcome of a decision could be found in study of the brain activity in the prefrontal and parietal cortex up to 7 seconds before the subject was aware of their decision.
This is is suifuel for free will copers. Thanks for sharing this study though, I had no idea this happened.
 
All signs point to no.

There have been a few smarty-pants who claim free-will exists, but when you listen to them defend their position they have to entirely redefine what free-will even is: Daniel Dennet is an example of this.

The concepts of determinism and free will are things I got really into for a while, and to my knowledge not even a smidge of evidence suggests free-will is true. The falsity of free-will should be well known to the populace, because I think it may increase empathy for others, since no one is morally at fault for anything.
 
It should be well known to the populace, which I think might increase empathy for others since no one is morally at fault for anything.

I doubt this knowledge would change anything, most people would just forget about the fact that free will doesnt exist and move on with their lives, its not like people think about these things anyway.empathy is actually uncontrollable.
 
I doubt this knowledge would change anything, most people would just forget about the fact that free will doesnt exist and move on with their lives, its not like people think about these things anyway.empathy is actually uncontrollable.
Perhaps you're right. But personally it was only my rejection of free-will that let me stop hating myself.
 
Fittingly, I just finished The World as Will and Representation (@DeformAspergerCel read it br0), which decisively helped free my mind from the superficial chains of determinism.

If you go through my post history, you'll find spots where I'm in a bind as to the nature of responsibility or inner transformation. It seems self-evident to affirm causality as the ruling principle of the world, to state that an effect produces consequences in an unbroken chain, irrespective or whether it's predictable (deterministic) or not (stochastic).

This is a conceit, though. The principle of sufficient reason (i.e. causality) is merely the foundation of the perceived world; the phenomenon. The phenomenon itself is the expression of a groundless force ('the will') that exists as a unity, independent of time and space (and matter as the union of the two), as these are only forms which condition perception a priori (ways our cognition organizes perceived reality).

Striving, energy, impulse - from gravity to human desire - is the thing-in-itself of the world, and the plurality of objects in causal relation is only the appearance of it that is apprehensible to the senses.

Is our embodiment of the will (or our will if you see it this way - as I do) truly free in the sense that it was chosen by us (and from whence this choice)? No. It is however inwardly free from causality and acts rather to determine the world rather than the world determining it. Therefore character will always supervene over environmental contingency, the mere expression of the character at a particular point in time.
 
To an extent. I see it like a locomotive on the tracks. It has the freedom to do certain things, but there is a path it's being led on no matter what
 
if it doesn't exist why should I even vote
 
If free will doesn't exist, why do have the feeling of choice in the first place? What purpose does it serve?

When observe my actions and thoughts, I realize things just happen. When I'm asked "name a country", I don't actually consciously go through the catalogue of country names I've encountered and give an answer. Rather, one name pops up in my head; it could have been anything, but it happened to be that particular name. This is one example that makes me question the notion of free will.

I'm served up in a way these thoughts. As one ends, another one comes into focus. I don't really choose what thoughts come into focus.
 
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Unfortunately no as many say here
 
Is our embodiment of the will (or our will if you see it this way - as I do) truly free in the sense that it was chosen by us (and from whence this choice)? No. It is however inwardly free from causality and acts rather to determine the world rather than the world determining it. Therefore character will always supervene over environmental contingency, the mere expression of the character at a particular point in time.
I would tend to put more of an emphasis on the genetics that underpin one's moral character. Within this genetic confine, there is always the option to either act or not act in accordance with one's higher ideals. This is in turn subject to another mechanism which William Pierce calls the 'urge' or 'aspiration towards ever expanding consciousness'. It is and will forever be subject to the same laws of physics and the same chemistry which has shaped and guided our evolution ever since the bacterial stage. That's of course not to say that everyone who's sub4 will ascend and reproduce if they wish for it hard enough, but rather that evolution and life itself favors this sort of moral character and that its absence will likely lead to complete extermination given sufficient time due to the decadence that stems from it (which is what we're seeing the beginning phases of now)
 
There is no true free will in our society. The government says that we have 'free will' but they're clearly lying.
 
112655

I'm more on the side of soft determinism
 
If I decide right now to rope would that prove free will? @Ryo_Hazuki
 
No. And this why everyone should be given what everyone else have.
 
If I decide right now to rope would that prove free will? @Ryo_Hazuki
If you rope right now, then that decision would be an inevitable and fundamental necessity of the universe.
 
No. Compatibilism is a bigger cope than loli 2D anime girls.
 
In a universe of causality, free will is impossible even in theory.

Basically this.
This is also the original meaning of “karma”.
All the advanced ancient societies realised this. We are like pieces on a chessboard being played by he gods.
 
I would tend to put more of an emphasis on the genetics that underpin one's moral character. Within this genetic confine, there is always the option to either act or not act in accordance with one's higher ideals. This is in turn subject to another mechanism which William Pierce calls the 'urge' or 'aspiration towards ever expanding consciousness'. It is and will forever be subject to the same laws of physics and the same chemistry which has shaped and guided our evolution ever since the bacterial stage. That's of course not to say that everyone who's sub4 will ascend and reproduce if they wish for it hard enough, but rather that evolution and life itself favors this sort of moral character and that its absence will likely lead to complete extermination given sufficient time due to the decadence that stems from it (which is what we're seeing the beginning phases of now)

Reproduction itself is a form of the representation and the correlative of its plurality. Mutation, recombination, lesions, aging, epigenetic modifications can all be subsumed under what is effectively a cipher of the endless becoming of the material world, the lack of constancy and the succession of forms. From the spontaneous formation of the first macromolecules to the ascent of empires this holds, though I am turning over in my head the possible seat of the qualitative difference in the soul of the human being. Consider the substratum underlying all temporally and spatially discrete phenomena as being a kind of undulating, undivided mass of protoplasm, considered by perception and reason only in the aspect of a cross-section of space and time.

The last part is interesting though in considering the movement toward (or away from) an ideal form. You can draw a picture of this process, though incomplete, out of the forms of the representation. Spengler did this in a way, though not necessarily quantitatively but rather physiognomically. But what I mean here is the passage of the will into or out of a higher objectivity, mirrored outwardly by phenomena present in concepts like 'IQ' and 'achievement'. Spengler considered the budding, flowering, and wilting of great cultures - one finds this expressed to a degree in metrics like the aforementioned. The death of a cultural idea and the degeneration of the people within it is manifested fragmentarily in things like declining genetic intelligence, through the phenomenon of liberalized procreation (world and Western IQ is decreasing, Flynn effect is hitting a ceiling), lapsing moral conviction, and shallow, inert esthetics.

However, I don't like to put too much stock in the teleological view of nature, common to everything from Islam to soy materialists, wherein the unfolding of nature occurs in some kind of balance or immanent wisdom. This was a fault that Schopenhauer indulged himself at points, but few things nauseate me more than "good genes" bugmen.

Hopefully all of this makes sense. I'm still trying to fit together ideas from The World as Will and Representation and Decline of the West, which have both stimulated my thoughts like little else before.
 
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In a universe of causality, free will is impossible even in theory.
Free will is normie cope to delude themselves into thinking they have any control over any of this bullshit. Every decision made was based on the memory of past experiences. Free will is bullshit, pleasemr sandman, send a fucking asteroid towards this planet NOW
 
Reproduction itself is a form of the representation and the correlative of its plurality. Mutation, recombination, lesions, aging, epigenetic modifications can all be subsumed under what is effectively a cipher of the endless becoming of the material world, the lack of constancy and the succession of forms. From the spontaneous formation of the first macromolecules to the ascent of empires this holds, though I am turning over in my head the possible seat of the qualitative difference in the soul of the human being. Consider the substratum underlying all temporally and spatially discrete phenomena as being a kind of undulating, undivided mass of protoplasm, considered by perception and reason only in the aspect of a cross-section of space and time.

The last part is interesting though in considering the movement toward (or away from) an ideal form. You can draw a picture of this process, though incomplete, out of the forms of the representation. Spengler did this in a way, though not necessarily quantitatively but rather physiognomically. But what I mean here is the passage of the will into or out of a higher objectivity, mirrored outwardly by phenomena present in concepts like 'IQ' and 'achievement'. Spengler considered the budding, flowering, and wilting of great cultures - one finds this expressed to a degree in metrics like the aforementioned. The death of a cultural idea and the degeneration of the people within it is manifested fragmentarily in things like declining genetic intelligence, through the phenomenon of liberalized procreation (world and Western IQ is decreasing, Flynn effect is hitting a ceiling), lapsing moral conviction, and shallow, inert esthetics.

However, I don't like to put too much stock in the teleological view of nature, common to everything from Islam to soy materialists, wherein the unfolding of nature occurs in some kind of balance or immanent wisdom. This was a fault that Schopenhauer indulged himself at points, but few things nauseate me more than "good genes" bugmen.

Hopefully all of this makes sense. I'm still trying to fit together ideas from The World as Will and Representation and Decline of the West, which have both stimulated my thoughts like little else before.
I think the mistake a lot of people make when they talk about human nature is that they speak of it as something that's limited to being encoded into one's genes, but I would also say that cultural manifestations are equally if not more valid representations of human nature. Rosenberg adopts this view when he talks of culture being a racial phenotype. If we adopt this view with all its implications, it stands to reason that a sort of co evolution occurs between the racial group and the society they're part of where one is constantly chasing after the other's tail. Ideally culture should be the bearer of the racial group and in that pursuit lead the race forward and not the other way around as the so called gene pool cannot possibly be aware of itself or incorporate higher ideals into its decision making. Any society foolish enough to pursue the latter will cease to be a society within a couple generations and shortly return to the jungle. That said, I am personally not opposed to eugenics provided it's done in a way that favors those attributes that will advance society. I suppose here is where I differ from the National Socialist view of reproduction in that National Socialism, at least in its original conception, believed in the abstract concept of 'genetic quality', while I would be more on the side of practical and pragmatic eugenics.
 
No no no.
Everything depends on providence . man never chooses. Only fate does.
 

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