Can having children be reasonably morally justified?

[Ahnfeltia]

I know many of you are antinatalist, but I'm curious if some of you think to know of a reasonable moral justification for having kids because I'm drawing a blank myself.

Obviously having children can be PRAGMATICALLY justified -- the societal machine perpetually needs new fuel to burn. And something like

because God willed it thus

is an UNreasonable moral justification IMO for the same reason that "the evil made me do it" doesn't hold up in court -- anything can be justified this way.

Edit -- I suppose there's

the strong do as they please and the weak suffer what they must

but, I mean, come on

 

[Decal1us_____]

It’s just a biological/evolutionary/natural urge, there’s not any way to really justify having children even if it doesnt seem wrong in the first place

 

[HomicidalSuicidal88]

NO

 

[Karakol96]

Is there an universal moral law or what? What are we talking about here?

 

[Ahnfeltia]

Is there an universal moral law or what? What are we talking about here?

I'm asking whether there's some reasonable way to think of having kids as moral.

 

[bathlete]

even if the concrete idea of god were to show his face and heaven were real it still doesn’t justify being inclined to natalism. that an individual born into the world has the natural propensities to complex development and shaped by their genetics and immediate environment still lacks the unifying quintessential capacity of reasonability for again, the idea of contemporality teasing a raw justification threshold since what either complex arrangement or modest elopement boils down to is at the intrinsic expense of it. there are too many unruly factors against the intrinsically dominant that can’t be shedded up with its weight, not even pure biologicality in its crippling state of affairs recurrent with compulsive consequences itself

 

[based_meme]

I'm asking whether there's some reasonable way to think of having kids as moral.

Sure. You can intend to bring children into the world to spread goodness and increase the net overall pleasure and joy in the world through your upbringing of upstanding citizens who will contribute societally and may contribute scientifically, technologically and philosophically.

 

[Enigmaz]

It becomes unmoral when you have shit genes that'll curse your sons.

 

[Ahnfeltia]

Sure. You can intend to bring children into the world to spread goodness and increase the net overall pleasure and joy in the world through your upbringing of upstanding citizens who will contribute societally and may contribute scientifically, technologically and philosophically.

I was thinking more big picture -- i.e., having children in general rather than one couple, but I suppose your point carries over easily enough. I guess utilitarianism conjoined with the not outlandish belief that well-raised children will have a net positive effect on society does constitute a reasonable moral justification for having children (assuming children are being raised well enough). Can't say I'm a fan though, for a variety of reasons.

I wonder if there's a reasonable way to justify having children without adopting a morality with a "sacrifice some for the sake of others" aspect. In the case of "the strong do as they please and the weak suffer what they must" the weak are sacrificed for the sake of the strong and in the case of utilitarianism the few are sacrificed for the sake of the many.

 

[based_meme]

I wonder if there's a reasonable way to justify having children without adopting a morality with a "sacrifice some for the sake of others" aspect. In the case of "the strong do as they please and the weak suffer what they must" the weak are sacrificed for the sake of the strong and in the case of utilitarianism the few are sacrificed for the sake of the many.

How are the few being "sacrificed for the sake of the many" in the utilitarian case? Where is the sacrifice being made in the strictly utilitarian framework? What's the line of reasoning there? I don't follow.

 

[Ahnfeltia]

How are the few being "sacrificed for the sake of the many" in the utilitarian case? Where is the sacrifice being made in the strictly utilitarian framework? What's the line of reasoning there? I don't follow.

Utilitarianism aims to maximize some aggregate of utility (or weal in this case) right? In practice this always involves sacrificing the weal of the few to increase the weal of the many. Case in point, locking away criminals. So long as people want different things, some people ain't gonna get what they want.

 

[pizzamaxxer]

You can have kids to wash off the sins of your parents or the situations you been through that made you the shithole of a person you are. But then the morality part is difficult to justify cuz it's all for yourself.

 

[Ahnfeltia]

You can have kids to wash off the sins of your parents or the situations you been through that made you the shithole of a person you are. But then the morality part is difficult to justify cuz it's all for yourself.

I'd subsume this under

the strong do as they please and the weak suffer what they must

which I mentioned in the OP. Who has less influence than the unborn after all?

 

[pizzamaxxer]

I'd subsume this under

which I mentioned in the OP. Who has less influence than the unborn after all?

high iq post

 

[Ahnfeltia]

high iq post

thanks

 

[AnApparentMyth]

For the future generations to be happier, so they can experience this life? Natalism is the belief that "promotes" it, not necessarily a justification or true, undeniable reason for it. That's all I really got, as an AntiNata myself.

 

[Ahnfeltia]

For the future generations to be happier, so they can experience this life?

I guess utilitarianism conjoined with the not outlandish belief that well-raised children will have a net positive effect on society does constitute a reasonable moral justification for having children (assuming children are being raised well enough).

Natalism is the belief that "promotes" it, not necessarily a justification or true, undeniable reason for it.

technically yes fair point. Doesn't really change anything tho.