C.A.I.N

[Krad]

There is the brother of Abel, who killed him because of his envy, and God punished him.







Something about Cain is weird when you look close, about his mark, do your own research and what is left of Cain today, if it is the case what im proposing. It is taboo.








Anyways, Cain, and Abel were ones who lived long, long lifes, like over 900 year.

Cain was jealous over Abel, who his offering to God was accepted, but not from Cain.

Then he killed Abel, making the first homicide in all story, and became nigh immortal.

Much later, many civilizations had done human sacrifice, human sacrifice "to the gods" for the promise of imortality.

Gilgamesh himself wanted to be like Utnapishtim, and why was Utnapishtim immortal?

Or was he? What if, he was like Noah and others? Beings of over what the normal mortality we humans possess, to some, almost gods in earth.

And many by wanting what Adam had, did what Cain did, killing others, even those who are part of the "gods" like they assumed themselves to be.

What if all who sacrificed humans, echoes the crime of Cain? Who killed his brother who was close to God and God is the owner of immortality.

 

[Krad]

Going to post on religion for reasons

 

[Krad]

I prefer the lounge though.

 

[SewerGoat]

Haven't you found that part of the first testament particularly weird. Cain was the the soft hearted of the two, who didn't get praises from the get go while Abel was the favorite of everyone since the beginning. Cain offered god grains and wheat, while Abel always offered God meat.

Cain was under the impression that he does not like anything to die, for the sake of ritual, while Abel was the complete opposite. In the eyes of YHWH, Cain was not putting in the effort when in reality, he did not want to harm any living creations.


To get away from the theological stuff for a sec: Sacrifices are a very weird phenomenon. The abrahamic traditions are in this respect no different to any other kind of theological system in the world. Weirdly enough, a lot of cultures without any contact to each other had either human or animal sacrifices for some odd reason. But just to get back to reality here: Why would the creator of the universe want to be addressed and worshipped by having sacrifices made for him? Paying credence to the creator by offering him his own critters by killing them in inhuman ways?

But yeah theologically speaking, we are all descendants of Cain. It's also called sometimes the second fall contextually speaking after the first fall in the beginning of Genesis.

 

[St3v3Cel]

Cain was jealous over Abel, who his offering to God was accepted, but not from Cain.

Why do you think God was indifferent to Cain's offering?

Haven't you found that part of the first testament particularly weird. Cain was the the soft hearted of the two, who didn't get praises from the get go while Abel was the favorite of everyone since the beginning. Cain offered god grains and wheat, while Abel always offered God meat.

Cain was under the impression that he does not like anything to die, for the sake of ritual, while Abel was the complete opposite. In the eyes of YHWH, Cain was not putting in the effort when in reality, he did not want to harm any living creations.


To get away from the theological stuff for a sec: Sacrifices are a very weird phenomenon. The abrahamic traditions are in this respect no different to any other kind of theological system in the world. Weirdly enough, a lot of cultures without any contact to each other had either human or animal sacrifices for some odd reason. But just to get back to reality here: Why would the creator of the universe want to be addressed and worshipped by having sacrifices made for him? Paying credence to the creator by offering him his own critters by killing them in inhuman ways?

But yeah theologically speaking, we are all descendants of Cain. It's also called sometimes the second fall contextually speaking after the first fall in the beginning of Genesis.

Agreed.

 

[St3v3Cel]

And after Cain killed Abel God basically granted Cain protection, like a reward of sorts. It's almost like the moral of the Cain and Abel story is that if you want to please God you should offer meat, or even better a human sacrifice as an offering instead of wheat and grains.

 

[Krad]

Why do you think God was indifferent to Cain's offering?

I believe because Cain did only give his leftovers, while Abel gave his best to God while Cain remained to was spared, and only the small would be given.

And the blood of Abel, who was close to God, who did nothing wrong to God and no one, died by the envy of Cain.

 

[Krad]

And after Cain killed Abel God basically granted Cain protection, like a reward of sorts. It's almost like the moral of the Cain and Abel story is that if you want to please God you should offer meat, or even better a human sacrifice as an offering instead of wheat and grains.

Or maybe, Cain is in the same seat as the angels who rebelled against God, and was given protection for those angels, until THE DAY OF THE LORD, which all would be judge.

 

[SewerGoat]

Why do you think God was indifferent to Cain's offering?

It stems back to tradition rather than any sound theological reason. The idea is: the more something has to suffer the higher it's value as an offering is. Offerings and sacrifices are older than the abrahamic tradition itself. The inspiration can be found both from mesopotamian tradition (Which many of the stories in the first testament are inspired by in part) and the local many god offerings of the original canaanites before Moses introduced them to YHWH/Elohim.

The origin of the abrahamic religions are polytheistic like all religions in the world. The early canaanites had many gods in the beginning besides YHWH, which is the reason why God appears in the first testament in many passages as a control freak and a rather jealous god - the early writers of the first testament wouldn't have had to repeatedly implore people to not worship any other Gods next to YHWH, if their people wouldn't have had worshiped any others like Baal, Asherah, Marduk or Moloch. It's the reason why one of the first commandments even before, You shall not kill, is you shall not have other Gods besides YHWH.

Many of the traditions of sacrifices were adopted from earlier traditions from the canaanite people.

 

[Krad]

And after Cain killed Abel God basically granted Cain protection, like a reward of sorts. It's almost like the moral of the Cain and Abel story is that if you want to please God you should offer meat, or even better a human sacrifice as an offering instead of wheat and grains.

The blood of Abel claims for Justice even today. His name and his case is not forgotten. The first martyrdom, will be avenged.

 

[Krad]

It stems back to tradition rather than any sound theological reason. The idea is: the more something has to suffer the higher it's value as an offering is. Offerings and sacrifices are older than the abrahamic tradition itself. The inspiration can be found both from mesopotamian tradition (Which many of the stories in the first testament are inspired by in part) and the local many god offerings of the original canaanites before Moses introduced them to YHWH/Elohim.

The origin of the abrahamic religions are polytheistic like all religions in the world. The early canaanites had many gods in the beginning besides YHWH, which is the reason why God appears in the first testament in many passages as control freak and jealous god - the early writers of the first testament wouldn't have had to repeatedly implore people to not worship any other Gods next to YHWH, if their people wouldn't have had worshiped any others like Baal, Asherah, Marduk or Moloch. It's the reason why one of the first commandments even before, You shall not kill, is you shall not have other Gods besides YHWH.

Many of the traditions of sacrifices were adopted from earlier traditions from the canaanite people.

It is said: that God prefers righteousness over sacrifice, that mercy God values more than offerings.

 

[SewerGoat]

It is said: that God prefers righteousness over sacrifice, that mercy God values more than offerings.

There is a quote to be found for everything in the bible - one can find a quote both for loving each other, and for bringing famine upon other people - which God does repeatedly in the first testament. I am just giving you a historical-anthropological and theological reasoning for the idea of offering in the bible.

 

[St3v3Cel]

It stems back to tradition rather than any sound theological reason. The idea is: the more something has to suffer the higher it's value as an offering is. Offerings and sacrifices are older than the abrahamic tradition itself. The inspiration can be found both from mesopotamian tradition (Which many of the stories in the first testament are inspired by in part) and the local many god offerings of the original canaanites before Moses introduced them to YHWH/Elohim.

The origin of the abrahamic religions are polytheistic like all religions in the world. The early canaanites had many gods in the beginning besides YHWH, which is the reason why God appears in the first testament in many passages as a control freak and a rather jealous god - the early writers of the first testament wouldn't have had to repeatedly implore people to not worship any other Gods next to YHWH, if their people wouldn't have had worshiped any others like Baal, Asherah, Marduk or Moloch. It's the reason why one of the first commandments even before, You shall not kill, is you shall not have other Gods besides YHWH.

Many of the traditions of sacrifices were adopted from earlier traditions from the canaanite people.

That is a sound secular explanation of it. What do you think of this interpretation of mine:

And after Cain killed Abel God basically granted Cain protection, like a reward of sorts. It's almost like the moral of the Cain and Abel story is that if you want to please God you should offer meat, or even better a human sacrifice as an offering instead of wheat and grains.

 

[Krad]

That is a sound secular explanation of it. What do you think of this interpretation of mine:

We would be the sacrifice if Cain was truly awarded by God.

We would be Abel, and the Jews, Cain.

 

[Krad]

It stems back to tradition rather than any sound theological reason. The idea is: the more something has to suffer the higher it's value as an offering is. Offerings and sacrifices are older than the abrahamic tradition itself. The inspiration can be found both from mesopotamian tradition (Which many of the stories in the first testament are inspired by in part) and the local many god offerings of the original canaanites before Moses introduced them to YHWH/Elohim.

The origin of the abrahamic religions are polytheistic like all religions in the world. The early canaanites had many gods in the beginning besides YHWH, which is the reason why God appears in the first testament in many passages as a control freak and a rather jealous god - the early writers of the first testament wouldn't have had to repeatedly implore people to not worship any other Gods next to YHWH, if their people wouldn't have had worshiped any others like Baal, Asherah, Marduk or Moloch. It's the reason why one of the first commandments even before, You shall not kill, is you shall not have other Gods besides YHWH.

Many of the traditions of sacrifices were adopted from earlier traditions from the canaanite people.

I believe it would happen the same way, if the hebrews were polytheistic or monotheistic.

Because God does not negotiate with sin, nor murdering or adultery or anything that is fruit of the darkness.

 

[St3v3Cel]

We would be the sacrifice if Cain was truly awarded by God.

We would be Abel, and the Jews, Cain.

Rereading it (NRSVue), you were probably right that he wasn't quite rewarded:

8 Cain said to his brother Abel, “Let us go out to the field.” And when they were in the field, Cain rose up against his brother Abel and killed him. 9 Then the Lord said to Cain, “Where is your brother Abel?” He said, “I do not know; am I my brother’s keeper?” 10 And the Lord said, “What have you done? Listen, your brother’s blood is crying out to me from the ground! 11 And now you are cursed from the ground, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand. 12 When you till the ground, it will no longer yield to you its strength; you will be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth.” 13 Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is greater than I can bear! 14 Today you have driven me away from the soil, and I shall be hidden from your face; I shall be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth, and anyone who meets me may kill me.” 15 Then the Lord said to him, “Not so![c] Whoever kills Cain will suffer a sevenfold vengeance.” And the Lord put a mark on Cain, so that no one who came upon him would kill him. 16 Then Cain went away from the presence of the Lord and settled in the land of Nod,[d] east of Eden.

Since Cain implied that he wanted someone to kill him to escape his punishment, receiving the mark that ensured that nobody would kill him was yet another punishment. Still, this following passage implies that the life Cain went on to live wasn't that bad:

17 Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch, and he built a city and named it Enoch after his son Enoch. 18 To Enoch was born Irad, and Irad was the father of Mehujael, and Mehujael the father of Methushael, and Methushael the father of Lamech. 19 Lamech took two wives; the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah. 20 Adah bore Jabal; he was the ancestor of those who live in tents and have livestock. 21 His brother’s name was Jubal; he was the ancestor of all those who play the lyre and pipe. 22 Zillah bore Tubal-cain, who made all kinds of bronze and iron tools. The sister of Tubal-cain was Naamah.

He got a wife, children and his own city which doesn't sound much like the life someone who was cursed to be "fugitive and a wanderer" should have gotten. That was the source of my misunderstanding. But I guess he might have still struggled with farming.

 

[Krad]

Rereading it (NRSVue), you were probably right that he wasn't quite rewarded:

Since Cain implied that he wanted someone to kill him to escape his punishment, receiving the mark that ensured that nobody would kill him was yet another punishment. Still, this second passage implies that the life Cain went on to live wasn't that bad:

He got a wife, children and his own city which doesn't sound much like the life someone who was cursed to be "fugitive and a wanderer" should have gotten. That was the source of my misunderstanding. But I guess he might have still struggled with farming.

How much a life needs to be good to make hell even a small drop of water less bad?

 

[St3v3Cel]

How much a life needs to be good to make hell even a small drop of water less bad?

I guess that's another factor. God was clearly very unhappy with what Cain did, so Cain most likely went to hell. I just thought that it was confusing. God said that Cain would become a fugitive and a wanderer and then in the following chapter he basically became the exact opposite. I thought it undermined what people say the Cain and Abel story is about.

 

[Sir Silentium]

I prefer the lounge though.

Should we post on here or the lounge?

 

[Sir Silentium]

Barely anyone checks here

 

[SewerGoat]

Barely anyone checks here

We have to make this place great. There is potential. Just need regular active users who share high effort content

 

[Sir Silentium]

We have to make this place great. There is potential. Just need regular active users who share high effort content

We need to promote this sub forum in the Lounge kek. But yes, Vineyard and I have been DMing users to help

 

[SewerGoat]

We need to promote this sub forum in the Lounge kek. But yes, Vineyard and I have been DMing users to help

If i have enough energy for it, i would start posting some good threads here. I am sure people would join. Problem is most users here mistake this place for a second inceldom discussion section, which it is not.

 

[Sir Silentium]

If i have enough energy for it, i would start posting some good threads here. I am sure people would join. Problem is most users here mistake this place for a second inceldom discussion section, which it is not.

I have practically no experience on this sub thread, whenever I read the politics stuff I feel like ripping my eyes out.

 

[SewerGoat]

We need to promote this sub forum in the Lounge kek. But yes, Vineyard and I have been DMing users to help

Hypothesis on why agriculture started in Eurasia not Africa

The Neolithic period represents the cradle of humanity in many ways. While before settling down, we led a primal existence and dealt with few, if any, abstract concepts about the world beyond human existence, the Neolithic and the advent of agriculture ushered in a time of reflection. That...

incels.is

Just look at the responses here. Stuff said in the thread i created a time ago, which was the first of mine in this section.

 

[Sir Silentium]

Hypothesis on why agriculture started in Eurasia not Africa

The Neolithic period represents the cradle of humanity in many ways. While before settling down, we led a primal existence and dealt with few, if any, abstract concepts about the world beyond human existence, the Neolithic and the advent of agriculture ushered in a time of reflection. That...

incels.is

Just look at the responses here. Stuff said in the thread i created a time ago, which was the first of mine in this section.

What is your hypothesis on where we all originated from?

 

[Krad]

What is your hypothesis on where we all originated from?

From the ground of Eden.

 

[SewerGoat]

What is your hypothesis on where we all originated from?

The Multi-regional Hypothesis in short.

 

[RandomGuy]

we are all descendants of Cain.

We would be Abel, and the Jews, Cain.

What is your hypothesis on where we all originated from?

LOL

View: https://youtu.be/nINqIpj88xk?si=taJgEq2sGHTQ8RoR

 

[Krad]

LOL

View attachment 1715285

View attachment 1715286


View: https://youtu.be/nINqIpj88xk?si=taJgEq2sGHTQ8RoR

Basically that the jews who go against goyims and predate us, are Cain, while Christians, Abel, and they really think they are doing a good sacrifice by sacrificing us for God.

 

[SewerGoat]

LOL

View attachment 1715285

View attachment 1715286


View: https://youtu.be/nINqIpj88xk?si=taJgEq2sGHTQ8RoR

Reading comprehension failed. If you would've read my response you might've noticed that i do not believe in God. It's just a theological discussion.

 

[Sir Silentium]

From the ground of Eden.

Adam and Eve were the first man and women spiritually but not the first physically.
Neanderthals had existed for a short time before this.

 

[D. B. Gooner]

Made a thread on Genesis 1-4 as a whole. with a detailed part specifically about Cain and the meaning behind him.

The Bible as an anti-moralist book – Adam and Eve, Garden of Eden, Cain and Abel in-depth analysis

The Bible as an anti-moralist book – Adam and Eve, Garden of Eden, Cain and Abel in-depth analysis The Bible is history's most influential moral guide. But what if the Bible's opening chapters aren't about morality at all, but a warning against it? Before we begin, I need to define what “God”...

incels.is

Though you'd need to read the whole thread to understand my interpretation of Cain.