Hello everyone, as the title says, this is a full breakdown of where, how and why @Sasukecel (Abdoulaye) fucked up in his call with the PUA "FITXFEARLESS" hopefully, Sasukecel or other users can learn from his mistakes and see how to better debate, as well as how to recognize redpill grifters' tactics and the traps that they try to set up. Without further ado, let's just jump right into this, because holy shit, he really does everything wrong, I literally would struggle to do worse if I tried. This isn't a hitpiece on you or anything Sasukecel, but you really need someone to show you just how badly you fucked this up.
(The video in question, for those who wish to follow along, Abdoulaye is the very first caller and thumbnail)
First of all, you make several mistakes by even coming on the call. Guys like Fitx are ambush predators, they don't take on any argument they aren't sure they can win. By being invited to the call in the first place, you had already lost the debate. Secondly, you came in entirely unprepared, you'll see later in the call that Fitx runs out of material and starts to "loop" in a sense, he has a script and an attack pattern, if you had studied his other calls which he uploads, you would realize how he tends to argue and how to exploit his weaknesses. What you should have done is read up on studies that Fitx tends to cite, and understand the data presented in them, unfortunately, you gave him such an easy victory that he didn't even need to cite shit, but many of the studies that PUAs and debate bros tend to cite are muddy at best, or in some cases even lead to opposite interpretations of what they're trying to argue. Furthermore, you should have read up on studies of your own which support your points, and understand them well so you can argue and explain them if confronted. You should have read up on studies about first impressions and how they tend to affect how you are perceived forever, as well as things such as the 80/20 rule, if you had done this, you could have made a fairly strong argument for why you need surgery (although this argument itself is a losing strategy, I'll explain this later). Thirdly, you fucked up in showing him your face. I don't know if showing your face is a requirement to interview Fit, however, it does seem to be the case, because of this, you never should have done the interview. Fit mogs you to hell and back, and he has a quality setup with perfect lighting to accentuate his best features (naturally, as he does this for a living) the average normie will judge who won solely off of first impressions; not to mention the high risk of a doxx. Finally, there's the fact that this situation is literally unwinnable. I mean that literally. There was no way for you to ever beat Fitx in a debate, not because you're bad at debates (which you are) or because you were woefully unprepared (which you were) but because he always has an out. If Fit realizes that he misjudged you, and begins losing to you, he could always just wrap the call up and find an excuse to end it, saying that you were being bitchy or something, or saying that you've taken up too much of his time. If you do beat Fit in an argument, he could just scrub the video and not post it to his channel, greatly limiting who sees it (assuming this call was live). Additionally, since Fit has a large established audience and you have nothing, 99% of the people watching will be fans of his or at least open to his ideas, meaning that they're already biased against you. The only way in which you'd have a chance against Fit is if you have a decently sized channel of your own.
Now, onto the actual video. First of all, what the fuck is with your lighting man, why do you look like you're trolling on Omegle at 2 am? Get at least decent lighting and put your phone on a fucking table or something, this is embarrassing, you look incredibly unprofessional, and Fit is obviously going to tear into you for this, what were you expecting? and calling without headphones (they would hide your ears which would make you look better in the debate too) in a room with your little brother who's more than willing to throw you under the bus to some guy he's never met? Seriously, wtf are you thinking?
Before I continue, we must first break down how Fitx debates. He doesn't really know how to debate. You'll notice in most of his calls he follows a pretty basic script to the letter. He'll come out of the gate swinging, immediately attacking his opponent on some immutable characteristic, and humiliating them to his audience, then, once his target is off guard, he'll cozy up to them and appear to be interested/friendly in order to get them to reveal sensitive information he can use against them. Basically, he starts off with a wild insult to throw you off your game, then he gives you back control and lets you give him the rope he'll hang you with. It's not a very good debate tactic, and it can be pretty easily beaten if you ignore whatever he says in the first 5 seconds and then drive into him with empirical data and sound arguments when he gives you the stage, ignoring anything he says to try to cut you off (he does this later, so I'll go more in depth there).
Now, back to the video, Fit first asks you why you're on the call, giving you the stage for a moment. Be brief here, since he'll likely just ignore anything you have to say and simply try to insult you, right now, he isn't listening to you, he's only trying to come up with a way to humiliate you. Be brief, concise, and make your point very clear. Don't give him the outs he's waiting for. The major problem with this, is that your argument is a self defeating one. Never argue "I am ugly" in a serious debate, the average normie will hear this and think "well, he himself says he's ugly, so he must be wrong" this is a terrible and nearly unwinnable position; to the average normie "You are ugly and therefore wrong/a bad person is a genuine argument. The quality of your argument does not matter anywhere near as much as how it is perceived, although arguing that you're ugly is a true and self-evident position, it also seals your defeat when you're arguing to/with normies. If I were here, and had to keep the spirit of the debate, I would instead say something along the lines off "I'm here to prove that you greatly understate the importance of looks not only in a person's romantic life, but in nearly all aspects of life as well". However, for the sake of this retrospective, we'll go with your original argument and try to find the best possible way to structure it.
First of all, your response to Fit's first insult "Do you have lights on in your apartment bro" is laughable "uhh, I can choose another angle" I'm sorry, but you sound like a meek nerd getting pushed around by a jock. Fit rolls his fucking eyes at you, you're already humiliated beyond belief. In this case, either stand your ground and stay as you are (although the lighting is terrible and makes you look uglier) or simply stand up and find a better position without saying anything (even though you shouldn't have ended up in this position anyways). Showing the spiderman t-rex poster or whatever the fuck that is is also terrible. If your little brother hadn't jumped in to mog you, he would have assumed that was yours and torn you apart for it. Choose a better space next time man. Now, he asks you why you need cosmetic surgery, again giving you the stage. This is your opening to tear him apart with studies and corner him, instead you stutter out "Like, because i feel like my nose and my ears are kinda big". This is a terrible and non-assertive answer, it's an anecdote and you don't even commit to it, you say things like "I feel" and "kinda" which make it clear that you aren't prepared to defend your positions and state them definitively. Here, you should say something like "Well, I myself am rather ugly, (lie here if necessary) I've been rated by several other 'coaches' as 3/10 and studies have shown that a person's looks greatly impact the context of how all of their actions are perceived (halo/failo effect)" and be prepared to cite the names of who's rated you and the studies you're referring to. Obviously, here you would need to lie since saying that "people on a forum told me so" isn't a very strong argument. Alternatively, you could say that people have said this to you in real life, which is still an anecdote, but one which can't be disproven unlike the other coaches one, which can theoretically be disproven if he asks for the names of the PUAs you give and asks them if they've rated you, though this is extremely unlikely, and it's less likely that they'd answer him, especially since leaking that information would affect their reputations and get less people to buy their products. Either way, you need a much stronger argument than "I feel" and "kinda" even if it's a lie (although presumably you have been called ugly irl, so that one would be true).
Next, Fit asks you where you've heard this, which is again another chance to give a good argument, instead, you mention looksmaxx, which isn't a terrible answer, but you should know that this forum does have a somewhat negative connotation among youtube PUAs and it won't look good in a debate, however, this answer on it's own isn't the worst thing you could have said, what you say next is.
Here, Fit lies and calls looksmaxx an incel website, here's your chance to call him out on his bullshit and argue that many looksmaxx users get women frequently and others aren't even interested in women, but instead merely in improving their appearances so that they can improve their life in more general ways (this should tie into your halo effect argument if you had it).
Instead this nigga says that looksmaxx is a "neo-incel website". Lmao wtf are you saying dude? I truly have no words for this shit, wtf is this, I completely agree with Fit here, "what the fuck is that?" What in the hell is a "neo-incel" and why did you think it was a good idea to call yourself that?!?!?!
"How are they different" this would be your chance to point out how looksmaxx is different in terms of having sex, but you're already so fucked here it doesn't really matter. Fit realizes that he's given you this out and tries to deflect, distracting you with what he knows will be a killshot.
"Are you a virgin"
Lie.
Lie.
Lie motherfucker.
You should know how virgin men are treated in society. The fact that we're relegated to this out of the way forum because we've been banned everywhere else is living proof of that. First of all, you should have ignored this question and drilled into Fit's earlier lie about how looksmaxxers and incels are the same, but you've pretty much conceded this point already so whatever. Here, you need to lie, but let's be real, nobody's going to believe you've had sex. Here, you should answer that you "had a few girlfriends in highschool" or something along those lines. An inbetween lie, where you could even admit that you're a virgin ("they never really went anywhere") but not before giving an argument of at least some romantic experience. Conceding to being a virgin, but lying about having gfs allows you to slip the lie in under the radar as Fit focuses on the virgin point, the earlier lie, of course, will soften the blow of this point since you've shown that you've had at least some experience with women. Few people will believe a full blown lie here, so your best argument is "I dated a few girls in highschool" if fit repeats the question answer "no, we never got that far" but if he doesn't, you can lie about having had gfs and subtly imply that you've had sex since you didn't directly answer a no, while keeping things vague enough to where a normie viewer could find it believable.
Fitx immediately uses this to insult you, of course.
He then asks when the last time you approached a girl was
You answer never? You accuse me and other users here of not trying to ascend when you've never even approached a girl lmao? Fuck off dude, and this is such an incredibly obvious trap that he's setting, Fit is a terrible debater, you should obviously make up a story about how you approached a girl at your school or something and she ghosted you or said she had a bf/wasn't interested or something. What the fuck are you doing saying this shit? And go talk to some women like Fitx says, mf is writing paragraphs about his "dark virtue plan" before even trying to talk to a woman ever lmao.
Fit is a dogshit debater and he's wrong about almost everything but he's almost convincing me at this point.
Your brother laughs, and fit immediately latches onto this. With friends like these, who needs enemies, your brother is a bitch bro.
Now, your wording and tone here is very awkward "No my brother is young heisabout13" You sound nervous and out of it, and admitting that your brother is more attractive than you is again the most obvious trap imaginable. Here, you should have just said "He's not more confident, he's just more attractive" or something, not directly conceded to such a humiliating point.
Next, Fit asks you to put your brother on camera, say something like "no, I'm not involving him"/"No, I'm not revealing his face" instead you bring the little shit on screen to mog and deride you. Your brother is fucking evil lmao, but honestly, I don't think I would defend you either in this situation; you're fucking up the argument so badly and getting clowned on that I'd probably join with Fit too just to not have to debate alongside you and get my life ruined too. I'm sorry man, but this is just humiliating.
Now, after this, Fit asserts that you look the same as your brother, and asks how you he can be more attractive than you. This is a major mistake, and he's fucked up here. This was your opportunity to turn things around, but you were too passive and fucked it up. Instead of stumbling out, "his ears are kinda different" you needed to go full offense here, tell him that you don't look alike at all, point out how your foreheads, ears, eye area, etc. are different, call him blind and tell him he doesn't have a clue what the fuck he's talking about. You'll notice that Fit becomes rather passive here and tries to drop the point quickly, which shows that he knows he overreached. Point to the fact that your brother hasn't even gone through puberty yet, and he could end up looking just like you, point out genetic recombination, point out how very small details can make or break a person's whole appearance, and he has multiple minor-moderate differences which make him look almost entirely different, save for a passing resemblance. Instead, you mutter out a weak denial, and then passively shut up when he tells you to. You shouldn't have been so weak and let yourself be pushed around here, you literally had a winning position and gave it away because he told you to. You'll notice that he immediately pivots to the confidence point here, trying to get away from his mistake. This would have been your opportunity to point out that confidence is reliant on pass successes and experiences, but you failed to establish the two of you looking different, so this is meaningless. Then you just sit there as he calls you a retard, you try to say something about your nose, and again shut up when massa tells you to.
Everything after this is just more of the same, with no real point in covering it, but you will notice that Fit keeps going back to insulting you whenever you try to make any rebuttal, which shows what a bad debater he really is, where he really only has ad hominem as 90% of his kit. This would have been a good point to be more assertive and drill into him, tell him to shut the fuck up about your looks and instead answer some of your points, which you should have prepared stronger points as I've already mentioned. Fit gets stuck in a kind of insult loop and just tries to intimidate you into submission, and he succeeds, but you should have been more assertive and you'd see how his alpha persona would crumble.
I don't hate you or anything man, and I'm really trying my best to write this out with as few insults as possible, but fuck, you really shat the bed here, this is quite possibly one of the worst debates I've ever seen, and you keep repeatedly giving him points to attack you on. If you're going to lead any kind of movement or social media channel, you really need to improve your debate skills, and you can't be talking about dumb shit like "neo-incels" lmao.
(The video in question, for those who wish to follow along, Abdoulaye is the very first caller and thumbnail)
First of all, you make several mistakes by even coming on the call. Guys like Fitx are ambush predators, they don't take on any argument they aren't sure they can win. By being invited to the call in the first place, you had already lost the debate. Secondly, you came in entirely unprepared, you'll see later in the call that Fitx runs out of material and starts to "loop" in a sense, he has a script and an attack pattern, if you had studied his other calls which he uploads, you would realize how he tends to argue and how to exploit his weaknesses. What you should have done is read up on studies that Fitx tends to cite, and understand the data presented in them, unfortunately, you gave him such an easy victory that he didn't even need to cite shit, but many of the studies that PUAs and debate bros tend to cite are muddy at best, or in some cases even lead to opposite interpretations of what they're trying to argue. Furthermore, you should have read up on studies of your own which support your points, and understand them well so you can argue and explain them if confronted. You should have read up on studies about first impressions and how they tend to affect how you are perceived forever, as well as things such as the 80/20 rule, if you had done this, you could have made a fairly strong argument for why you need surgery (although this argument itself is a losing strategy, I'll explain this later). Thirdly, you fucked up in showing him your face. I don't know if showing your face is a requirement to interview Fit, however, it does seem to be the case, because of this, you never should have done the interview. Fit mogs you to hell and back, and he has a quality setup with perfect lighting to accentuate his best features (naturally, as he does this for a living) the average normie will judge who won solely off of first impressions; not to mention the high risk of a doxx. Finally, there's the fact that this situation is literally unwinnable. I mean that literally. There was no way for you to ever beat Fitx in a debate, not because you're bad at debates (which you are) or because you were woefully unprepared (which you were) but because he always has an out. If Fit realizes that he misjudged you, and begins losing to you, he could always just wrap the call up and find an excuse to end it, saying that you were being bitchy or something, or saying that you've taken up too much of his time. If you do beat Fit in an argument, he could just scrub the video and not post it to his channel, greatly limiting who sees it (assuming this call was live). Additionally, since Fit has a large established audience and you have nothing, 99% of the people watching will be fans of his or at least open to his ideas, meaning that they're already biased against you. The only way in which you'd have a chance against Fit is if you have a decently sized channel of your own.
Now, onto the actual video. First of all, what the fuck is with your lighting man, why do you look like you're trolling on Omegle at 2 am? Get at least decent lighting and put your phone on a fucking table or something, this is embarrassing, you look incredibly unprofessional, and Fit is obviously going to tear into you for this, what were you expecting? and calling without headphones (they would hide your ears which would make you look better in the debate too) in a room with your little brother who's more than willing to throw you under the bus to some guy he's never met? Seriously, wtf are you thinking?
Before I continue, we must first break down how Fitx debates. He doesn't really know how to debate. You'll notice in most of his calls he follows a pretty basic script to the letter. He'll come out of the gate swinging, immediately attacking his opponent on some immutable characteristic, and humiliating them to his audience, then, once his target is off guard, he'll cozy up to them and appear to be interested/friendly in order to get them to reveal sensitive information he can use against them. Basically, he starts off with a wild insult to throw you off your game, then he gives you back control and lets you give him the rope he'll hang you with. It's not a very good debate tactic, and it can be pretty easily beaten if you ignore whatever he says in the first 5 seconds and then drive into him with empirical data and sound arguments when he gives you the stage, ignoring anything he says to try to cut you off (he does this later, so I'll go more in depth there).
Now, back to the video, Fit first asks you why you're on the call, giving you the stage for a moment. Be brief here, since he'll likely just ignore anything you have to say and simply try to insult you, right now, he isn't listening to you, he's only trying to come up with a way to humiliate you. Be brief, concise, and make your point very clear. Don't give him the outs he's waiting for. The major problem with this, is that your argument is a self defeating one. Never argue "I am ugly" in a serious debate, the average normie will hear this and think "well, he himself says he's ugly, so he must be wrong" this is a terrible and nearly unwinnable position; to the average normie "You are ugly and therefore wrong/a bad person is a genuine argument. The quality of your argument does not matter anywhere near as much as how it is perceived, although arguing that you're ugly is a true and self-evident position, it also seals your defeat when you're arguing to/with normies. If I were here, and had to keep the spirit of the debate, I would instead say something along the lines off "I'm here to prove that you greatly understate the importance of looks not only in a person's romantic life, but in nearly all aspects of life as well". However, for the sake of this retrospective, we'll go with your original argument and try to find the best possible way to structure it.
First of all, your response to Fit's first insult "Do you have lights on in your apartment bro" is laughable "uhh, I can choose another angle" I'm sorry, but you sound like a meek nerd getting pushed around by a jock. Fit rolls his fucking eyes at you, you're already humiliated beyond belief. In this case, either stand your ground and stay as you are (although the lighting is terrible and makes you look uglier) or simply stand up and find a better position without saying anything (even though you shouldn't have ended up in this position anyways). Showing the spiderman t-rex poster or whatever the fuck that is is also terrible. If your little brother hadn't jumped in to mog you, he would have assumed that was yours and torn you apart for it. Choose a better space next time man. Now, he asks you why you need cosmetic surgery, again giving you the stage. This is your opening to tear him apart with studies and corner him, instead you stutter out "Like, because i feel like my nose and my ears are kinda big". This is a terrible and non-assertive answer, it's an anecdote and you don't even commit to it, you say things like "I feel" and "kinda" which make it clear that you aren't prepared to defend your positions and state them definitively. Here, you should say something like "Well, I myself am rather ugly, (lie here if necessary) I've been rated by several other 'coaches' as 3/10 and studies have shown that a person's looks greatly impact the context of how all of their actions are perceived (halo/failo effect)" and be prepared to cite the names of who's rated you and the studies you're referring to. Obviously, here you would need to lie since saying that "people on a forum told me so" isn't a very strong argument. Alternatively, you could say that people have said this to you in real life, which is still an anecdote, but one which can't be disproven unlike the other coaches one, which can theoretically be disproven if he asks for the names of the PUAs you give and asks them if they've rated you, though this is extremely unlikely, and it's less likely that they'd answer him, especially since leaking that information would affect their reputations and get less people to buy their products. Either way, you need a much stronger argument than "I feel" and "kinda" even if it's a lie (although presumably you have been called ugly irl, so that one would be true).
Next, Fit asks you where you've heard this, which is again another chance to give a good argument, instead, you mention looksmaxx, which isn't a terrible answer, but you should know that this forum does have a somewhat negative connotation among youtube PUAs and it won't look good in a debate, however, this answer on it's own isn't the worst thing you could have said, what you say next is.
Here, Fit lies and calls looksmaxx an incel website, here's your chance to call him out on his bullshit and argue that many looksmaxx users get women frequently and others aren't even interested in women, but instead merely in improving their appearances so that they can improve their life in more general ways (this should tie into your halo effect argument if you had it).
Instead this nigga says that looksmaxx is a "neo-incel website". Lmao wtf are you saying dude? I truly have no words for this shit, wtf is this, I completely agree with Fit here, "what the fuck is that?" What in the hell is a "neo-incel" and why did you think it was a good idea to call yourself that?!?!?!
"How are they different" this would be your chance to point out how looksmaxx is different in terms of having sex, but you're already so fucked here it doesn't really matter. Fit realizes that he's given you this out and tries to deflect, distracting you with what he knows will be a killshot.
"Are you a virgin"
Lie.
Lie.
Lie motherfucker.
You should know how virgin men are treated in society. The fact that we're relegated to this out of the way forum because we've been banned everywhere else is living proof of that. First of all, you should have ignored this question and drilled into Fit's earlier lie about how looksmaxxers and incels are the same, but you've pretty much conceded this point already so whatever. Here, you need to lie, but let's be real, nobody's going to believe you've had sex. Here, you should answer that you "had a few girlfriends in highschool" or something along those lines. An inbetween lie, where you could even admit that you're a virgin ("they never really went anywhere") but not before giving an argument of at least some romantic experience. Conceding to being a virgin, but lying about having gfs allows you to slip the lie in under the radar as Fit focuses on the virgin point, the earlier lie, of course, will soften the blow of this point since you've shown that you've had at least some experience with women. Few people will believe a full blown lie here, so your best argument is "I dated a few girls in highschool" if fit repeats the question answer "no, we never got that far" but if he doesn't, you can lie about having had gfs and subtly imply that you've had sex since you didn't directly answer a no, while keeping things vague enough to where a normie viewer could find it believable.
Fitx immediately uses this to insult you, of course.
He then asks when the last time you approached a girl was
You answer never? You accuse me and other users here of not trying to ascend when you've never even approached a girl lmao? Fuck off dude, and this is such an incredibly obvious trap that he's setting, Fit is a terrible debater, you should obviously make up a story about how you approached a girl at your school or something and she ghosted you or said she had a bf/wasn't interested or something. What the fuck are you doing saying this shit? And go talk to some women like Fitx says, mf is writing paragraphs about his "dark virtue plan" before even trying to talk to a woman ever lmao.
Fit is a dogshit debater and he's wrong about almost everything but he's almost convincing me at this point.
Your brother laughs, and fit immediately latches onto this. With friends like these, who needs enemies, your brother is a bitch bro.
Now, your wording and tone here is very awkward "No my brother is young heisabout13" You sound nervous and out of it, and admitting that your brother is more attractive than you is again the most obvious trap imaginable. Here, you should have just said "He's not more confident, he's just more attractive" or something, not directly conceded to such a humiliating point.
Next, Fit asks you to put your brother on camera, say something like "no, I'm not involving him"/"No, I'm not revealing his face" instead you bring the little shit on screen to mog and deride you. Your brother is fucking evil lmao, but honestly, I don't think I would defend you either in this situation; you're fucking up the argument so badly and getting clowned on that I'd probably join with Fit too just to not have to debate alongside you and get my life ruined too. I'm sorry man, but this is just humiliating.
Now, after this, Fit asserts that you look the same as your brother, and asks how you he can be more attractive than you. This is a major mistake, and he's fucked up here. This was your opportunity to turn things around, but you were too passive and fucked it up. Instead of stumbling out, "his ears are kinda different" you needed to go full offense here, tell him that you don't look alike at all, point out how your foreheads, ears, eye area, etc. are different, call him blind and tell him he doesn't have a clue what the fuck he's talking about. You'll notice that Fit becomes rather passive here and tries to drop the point quickly, which shows that he knows he overreached. Point to the fact that your brother hasn't even gone through puberty yet, and he could end up looking just like you, point out genetic recombination, point out how very small details can make or break a person's whole appearance, and he has multiple minor-moderate differences which make him look almost entirely different, save for a passing resemblance. Instead, you mutter out a weak denial, and then passively shut up when he tells you to. You shouldn't have been so weak and let yourself be pushed around here, you literally had a winning position and gave it away because he told you to. You'll notice that he immediately pivots to the confidence point here, trying to get away from his mistake. This would have been your opportunity to point out that confidence is reliant on pass successes and experiences, but you failed to establish the two of you looking different, so this is meaningless. Then you just sit there as he calls you a retard, you try to say something about your nose, and again shut up when massa tells you to.
Everything after this is just more of the same, with no real point in covering it, but you will notice that Fit keeps going back to insulting you whenever you try to make any rebuttal, which shows what a bad debater he really is, where he really only has ad hominem as 90% of his kit. This would have been a good point to be more assertive and drill into him, tell him to shut the fuck up about your looks and instead answer some of your points, which you should have prepared stronger points as I've already mentioned. Fit gets stuck in a kind of insult loop and just tries to intimidate you into submission, and he succeeds, but you should have been more assertive and you'd see how his alpha persona would crumble.
I don't hate you or anything man, and I'm really trying my best to write this out with as few insults as possible, but fuck, you really shat the bed here, this is quite possibly one of the worst debates I've ever seen, and you keep repeatedly giving him points to attack you on. If you're going to lead any kind of movement or social media channel, you really need to improve your debate skills, and you can't be talking about dumb shit like "neo-incels" lmao.
