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Serious BlackPilPres is Coping

MENSA_IQcel

MENSA_IQcel

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I will start off this thread by saying BlackPilPres is easily one of if not the most intellectually stunted users of this forum. The man posts low-IQ post after low-IQ post and I highly disregard him as even a fellow human being. He is clearly coping with his whole "ego death" ideology.

BlackPilPres argues that the only reason incels seek validation is because of our "egos". We value ourselves to be higher than we really are, we believe we "deserve" things which others have. Since we live in an atheistic-materialistic-deterministic Universe any ideas relating to self-worth and justice are fictional and only exist to serve our egos as emotional beings. Thus the truth to happiness and fulfillment is to give up our egos, accept we are cosmic dust in a meaningless Universe, and take life for how it goes in an attempt to maximize our personal pleasure. According to BlackPilPres this ideology has freed up from seeking validation. BlackPilPres made a post a while ago arguing he doesn't care whether he picks up a women at the club or hires a prostitute because it's the equivalent between hunting your own food or buying your own food. Only the hunters ego, his innate desire to feel worthy and valuable, forces him to hunt as opposed to buy his own food. BlackPilPres has given up on attempting to validate himself with immaterial awards while all the rest of us foolish chase "love", "affection", and "validation"

I do agree with BlackPilPres that we live in a deterministic and meaningless Universe. It is true that ideas about self-worth, justice, and observance are immaterial nonsense; however, he is wrong that "validation" is immaterial and illusory. Validation is a very real emotional need and to say that you don't need it anymore because you killed your "ego" is akin to monks saying they don't need food anymore because they reached Nirvana. BlackPilPres's subconscious knows he would be far much happier had he be able to let his ego grow and satisfy it with cheerful and enthusiastic validation from female cohorts. BlackPilPres deep down knows by killing his ego he's killing a massive source of potential joy and pleasure for his life. BlackPilPres's essence is no different than chemically castrating yourself and arguing your on the same level as Chad because "I don't need sex like the others anyway". While "morality" and "worth" are subjective immaterial ideas, love, affection, and validation are not. They are emotional needs designed by evolutionary biology to drive us to reproduction. You can not merely turn these motions off with enough mental gymnastics. To take his simile of the hunter vs grocery shopper. Imagine if you lived in a world where everybody was either a hunter or a hunter wannabe. Men who couldn't hunt were considered losers and the successful hunters got to keep the best meat for themselves. Does BlackPilPres really mean to state that in this world he would be just as happy being one of the food purchases as he would being the top hunter because after-all, his nonexistent ego doesn't depend on validation? BlackPilPres ideology is probably smart to adopt when you live in the state we do but unfortunately it is a sour grape's cope of which one's subconscious knows it is futile.

TLDR - This idea that you can disconnect your happiness from validation is non-sense
 
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@BlkPillPres this guy is shitting on you
 
Who said you cant get validated by escorts? I had one 2 months back and it was a pretty validating experience. Now you can argue that she wasnt really interested in me and that her validation was fake. But it felt pretty real to me. If youre a non-chad male, this is the closest youll ever get to real validation.
 
Who said you cant get validated by escorts? I had one 2 months back and it was a pretty validating experience. Now you can argue that she wasnt really interested in me and that her validation was fake. But it felt pretty real to me. If youre a non-chad male, this is the closest youll ever get to real validation.

Validation does not come from people being nice to you, it comes from belief in self-worth. You knew you were paying them, you knew you accomplished nothing. Feeling good because someone treated you well is not validation, validation comes from personal feelings of superiority over others.
@BlkPillPres this guy is shitting on you

I was merely critiquing his ideology. Intellectuals like him and I are allowed to converse in such a manner.
 
Validation does not come from people being nice to you, it comes from belief in self-worth. You knew you were paying them, you knew you accomplished nothing. Feeling good because someone treated you well is not validation, validation comes from personal feelings of superiority over others.

I was referring to external validation and i assume that's the kind of validation most of us seek. When you get validated by someone, your sense of self worth automatically goes up.

Btw, personal feelings of superiority over others sounds more like narcissism.
 
I was referring to external validation and i assume that's the kind of validation most of us seek. When you get validated by someone, your sense of self worth automatically goes up.

Btw, personal feelings of superiority over others sounds more like narcissism.

External validation from escorts is autistic then ngl. Like paying someone to rate you a 10/10 and then basking in your good looks.
 
too high iq for me
 
External validation from escorts is autistic then ngl. Like paying someone to rate you a 10/10 and then basking in your good looks.

Its the closest you can get to actual validation. Iam not saying this is ideal, but if you know you cant get validation from a foid, going the escort route is a better option than betabuxxing.

A lot of escorts give you the full GFE if you pay a little extra.
 
Its the closest you can get to actual validation. Iam not saying this is ideal, but if you know you cant get validation from a foid, going the escort route is a better option than betabuxxing.

A lot of escorts give you the full GFE if you pay a little extra.

Glad we recognize it is merely a substitute, and a poor one at that.
 
Thus the truth to happiness and fulfillment is to give up our egos, accept we are cosmic dust in a meaningless Universe, and take life for how it goes in an attempt to maximize our personal pleasure. According to BlackPilPres this ideology has freed up from seeking validation.

There's no such thing as happiness, its an illusory concept based on subjective criteria, there is only physical satisfaction
Happiness is subjective, it is rarely if ever truly attained because its standard is determined by the beliefs and mindset of the person chasing after it, it is dictated by two variables (Personal Standards and/or Ignorance of Standards). There are people out there in life whose lives are complete shit in comparison to ours in terms of standards of living, but they are "happier" than us, and they want to keep living while we feel suicidal, and that's because of:

1. Personal Standards - Their standards for existence are low, they don't want for much, could be because they'd suffered so much in life before that the meager pleasures they have now are enough in comparison to the past, could be because they have low self esteem and consider what they currently have "enough for someone like me", at the end of the day, they are "happy" based on the standards of living they have for their own life.

2. Ignorance of Standards - They are unaware of how much better their standards of living could be (e.g. someone born in some remote/tribal village/community with barely any technology). For example someone born in an amish community and is never exposed to any technology or modern media, or someone born in a monastery in some mountain in china and they have never left that community. They likely feel more satisfied and fulfilled with life than we ever will, but that's simply because they don't know what they are missing out on. If a 10/10 stacy walked up into said monastery in a bikini and an Ipad with a movie playing on it, that same guy who had "discovered nirvana" (a state of perfect happiness and enlightenment) would lose his shit and that would throw his peace out the window, he'll now realize many things he wanted deep down that he wasn't even truly aware of, entertainment, to have his lust satiated rather than repressed and controlled, etc.

The Amish are a better example of this, they have this rite of passage called Rumspringa,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumspringa

A lot of amish youths after going through this period never return to their communities because they now know the life they are missing out on, the phrase "ignorance is bliss" means "ignorance is happiness", its part of happiness, not knowing what you're missing out on allows you to set lower standards for happiness, and the mere introduction of those things into your consciousness destroys any peace of mind you had, your happiness is now sub par because you know your life could be more enjoyable now.

You can cope and deny all you want at that point, but you'll always know deep down its true.

Happiness is based on the limitations one places on themselves (ego, goals, etc) and the limitations that life placed on them (birth place, physical/mental disabilities, etc)

That's why I don't aspire to be "happy", I aspire to be "physically satisfied" and "stress free", that criteria is much more objective than "being happy", because talk to the average person who says they are "happy" and they live stressful and problematic lives, and that's because their personal standards for themselves revolves around "facing challenges", so they never stop chasing after more stresses in life, and they are always stuck wondering why they never feel "truly satisfied". Its because they are playing the game wrong, life isn't an endless series of achievements to be met, and that's the mindset (((they))) have indoctrinated onto the masses to keep us "happy and busy worker drones" while they actually enjoy what a fulfilling life is aboue (peace and prosperity).


Validation is a very real emotional need and to say that you don't need it anymore because you killed your "ego" is akin to monks saying they don't need food anymore because they reached Nirvana. BlackPilPres's subconscious knows he would be far much happier had he be able to let his ego grow and satisfy it with cheerful and enthusiastic validation from female cohorts

By your logic, rapists don't actually enjoy raping, and they actually hate it because "deep down" they really just want a woman to "choose them"

Also I've already addressed this nonsense idea that we "innately" want validation

YOU ARE FALSELY CONFLATING THE PREREQUISITE WITH THE GOAL

We were all raised in a society where one has to attain the perquisite of female validation to get the goal of sex, some of us are self aware enough to recognize that

If you were born years ago as part of some tribe of marauders you wouldn't "crave validation" (like magic) you'd claim women from villages you raided as your wife and you'd think nothing of it

These concepts in which you are treating as having a biological source ARE SOCIALIZED into men from birth, they aren't "innate" to any man

I don't understand how men like you go on and on about your IQ but you are unable to do something as simple as view existence outside the lens of the modern society you exist in, no selfawareness at all


BlackPilPres's essence is no different than chemically castrating yourself and arguing your on the same level as Chad because "I don't need sex like the others anyway"

JFL when did I ever say this, you have to be trolling, I've never likened myself to Chad

While "morality" and "worth" are subjective immaterial ideas, love, affection, and validation are not

Now I know you are trolling, or you are just that stupid, you should change your username into "MENSES_IQcel" because this is some female tier logic
 
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There's no such thing as happiness, its an illusory concept based on subjective criteria, there is only physical satisfaction





By your logic, rapists don't actually enjoy raping, and they actually hate it because "deep down" they really just want a woman to "choose them"

Also I've already addressed this nonsense idea that we "innately" want validation

YOU ARE FALSELY CONFLATING THE PREREQUISITE WITH THE GOAL

We were all raised in a society where one has to attain the perquisite of female validation to get the goal of sex, some of are self aware enough to recognize that

If you were born years ago as part of some tribe of marauders you wouldn't "crave validation" (like magic) you'd claim women from villages you raided as your wife and you'd think nothing of it

These concepts in which you are treating as having a biological source ARE SOCIALIZED into men from birth, they aren't "innate" to any man

I don't understand how men like you go on and on about your IQ but you are unable to do something as simple as view existence outside the lense of the modern society you exist in, no selfawareness at all




JFL when did I ever say this, you have to be trolling, I've never likened myself to Chad



Now I know you are trolling, or you are just that stupid, you should change your username into "MENSES_IQcel" because this is some female tier logic

Firstly I will begin by saying I only called you an intellectualcel in the beginning of my post to foster a civil discussion. You are far from that. You post some of the biggest garbage on this forum and are near the same level of inceltears.

Second, I take back what I said first, you're trolling. I realized that after reading your "rapist" analogy" and your "barbarian tribe" analogy which is easily refutable. This idea that female validation is a modern society concept is so stupid I think you have to be trolling, the Greeks talked about the benefits of being physically attractive with women and spoke of its "natural superiority". I am not going to write much more because I know you agree with me but get some sort of rush from these posts.
 
You have a better one?

If you are visiting whores for validation and not sex, I'd say you're wasting your money, I would not even call paid sex a substitute for validation, because validation is not the purpose of prostitution, the purpose is sex
 
Firstly I will begin by saying I only called you an intellectualcel in the beginning of my post to foster a civil discussion. You are far from that. You post some of the biggest garbage on this forum and are near the same level of inceltears.

Lol, a greycel trying to decide who is and isn't posting garbage on the forum.
 
Lol, a greycel trying to decide who is and isn't posting garbage on the forum.

I can only assume BlackPillPres is incel because his face looks like an asshole, how else is all this shit spewing from his mouth?
 
I realized that after reading your "rapist" analogy" and your "barbarian tribe" analogy which is easily refutable.

Easily refutable, says nothing to refute it, doesn't directly address any of my arguments

Very high IQ mate, your IQ must be 200+

This idea that female validation is a modern society concept is so stupid I think you have to be trolling, the Greeks talked about the benefits of being physically attractive with women and spoke of its "natural superiority"

Validation as a concept has always existed

HOW IMPORTANT IT IS CULTURALLY, DIFFERS FROM ERA TO ERA (that's my point)

It was never as important as it is now, there were always men who held pride in being able to "woo/attract" a woman, but that wasn't always a cultural norm, especially in the times where women were seen as property

So it begs the question, if its biological, were the men of the past DEFYING BIOLOGY?

Were they FORCING THEMSELVES to own women like property and not give a fuck about their validation?

I am not going to write much more because I know you agree with me but get some sort of rush from these posts.

Yep, definitely a troll - "No need to argue, I know you already agree with me"
 
If you are visiting whores for validation and not sex, I'd say you're wasting your money, I would not even call paid sex a substitute for validation, because validation is not the purpose of prostitution, the purpose is sex

You seem to think having sex/getting validated are at opposite ends. But its the way the act is done that determines what you get out of it. Does starfish sex lead to validation? Fuck no.
 

>Claims I didn't refute him

>Didn't refute anything I said other than "FEMALE LOGIC"

You are a troll. You're an inceltear screenshot maker and attempt to make us look like pretentious morons. What you say is on flat-earth level of stupidity and deserves nothing but mockery.
I mean, he's more of a sperge, not necessarily low IQ. He responds with 3-4 entire paragraphs to mere shitposts lol.

But the content of the paragraphs are nothing but pure garbage. Actually read some of the stuff he writes, it makes absolutely no sense.
 
These high iq discussions are entertaining and hilarious. I love threads like these
 
But the content of the paragraphs are nothing but pure garbage. Actually read some of the stuff he writes, it makes absolutely no sense.

You just went from calling him high IQ to this. JFL. I think both you and him are pretty low IQ copers tbh ngl.
 
You seem to think having sex/getting validated are at opposite ends

I think PAYING for sex (rather than merely HAVING - as in mutual desire) and getting validated are at opposite ends, validation comes from the concept of "achieving", "earning" or "being desired", none of those things take place when you pay for something that culturally is expected to be "earned" outside of payment

Nobody feels "validated" when they just finished ordering KFC JFL, but its a regular thing to hear hunters talking about "that moment" when its just them and their prey and its like "time freezes" and when they make the kill they feel amazing, and eating the meat feels good, that experience is connected to their ego, their pride

But its the way the act is done that determines what you get out of it. Does starfish sex lead to validation? Fuck no.

I agree there is an exception, if you are fucking a whore and you make her cum, of course you will feel validated then, so I guess that's a loophole, its like cheating the system JFL, paying for sex and taking your validation from the bitch on the back end of the deal :feelskek:
You just went from calling him high IQ to this. JFL. I think both you and him are pretty low IQ copers tbh ngl.

IQ doesn't mean anything, its the guys who go on and on about IQ that are coping, common sense is way more important than IQ

Perspective is way more important in determining success than prowess (well when extremes aren't involved)
 
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this guy kinda sounds like you ngl @Copemaxx

Hes just another pseudo intellectual passing by.

He'll be gone in a month.

Oh and OP

20200402 070854
 
BlackPilPres's essence is no different than chemically castrating yourself and arguing your on the same level as Chad because

Utter bollocks.

See, your entire screed is a massive straw man. I doubt there are many incels here who would suggest that emotional validation is irrelevant, unnecessary, and no longer welcome or desirable.

What most incels here do realize is that, for us, such validation is no longer an attainable goal. It is out of the question, period. It is pointless for genetically inferior individuals to pursue it. No one here is under the impression that paying a whore for sex, even if she's extremely attractive and is an excellent actress, is the same as the real thing. If I believed I was a Chad (Chang?), or equivalent to one, I wouldn't be here.

What the arguments of many escortcels boil down to is "If you do not have the ability to hunt, you should swallow your pride and buy your food at the market instead of starving to death." Because for us, the only alternatives to not fucking a whore are 1)"rapemaxxing", and 2) remaining a permavirgin, neither of which have desirable consequences.

Yes, seeing escorts is a "cope"; no one denies that.
 
Utter bollocks.

See, your entire screed is a massive straw man. I doubt there are many incels here who would suggest that emotional validation is irrelevant, unnecessary, and no longer welcome or desirable.

What most incels here do realize is that, for us, such validation is no longer an attainable goal. It is out of the question, period. It is pointless for genetically inferior individuals to pursue it. No one here is under the impression that paying a whore for sex, even if she's extremely attractive and is an excellent actress, is the same as the real thing. If I believed I was a Chad (Chang?), or equivalent to one, I wouldn't be here.

What the arguments of many escortcels boil down to is "If you do not have the ability to hunt, you should swallow your pride and buy your food at the market instead of starving to death." Because for us, the only alternatives to not fucking a whore are 1)"rapemaxxing", and 2) remaining a permavirgin, neither of which have desirable consequences.

Yes, seeing escorts is a "cope"; no one denies that.

You'd think, but read @BlackPilPres's posts. The idiot actually claimed that validation is an artificial need and that men in the past showed no concern for it.
Hes just another pseudo intellectual passing by.

He'll be gone in a month.

Oh and OP

View attachment 228833

Pseudo-intellectual eh? Is that why Universities use my papers.
 
@MENSA_IQcel
Why did you spell it BlackPilPres instead of BlkPillPres?

After reviewing both sides of the argument and actually reading both of your long ass posts (long posts are based)...

I'd say BlkPillPres is the winner of this duel.
 
Because for us, the only alternatives to not fucking a whore are 1)"rapemaxxing", and 2) remaining a permavirgin, neither of which have desirable consequences.

I kinda hope society does fall apart so I can try some rapemaxxing in minecraft

Yes, seeing escorts is a "cope"; no one denies that.

I think the term "cope" gets overused to the point where it has no meaning and now everything is a cope

Coping usually means something you are doing as an alternative to something that you are telling yourself is as good as or better than that thing

Like someone saying - "I don't need a relationship, I have my hobbies"

When you pay for sex, its not like you are telling yourself its better than dating and getting sex (or as good as it), its just something you are doing, no different than you playing video games because you don't have friends to "go out" with

Unless you are telling yourself that its better or as good as, I wouldn't call it coping, because "coping" implies self delusion (well in its original context, but these days its so overused and in the wrong manner that eating fast food because it tastes good is a cope lol)
 
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Pseudo-intellectual eh? Is that why Universities use my papers.

You still havent said which universities or what papers.

Your claims are useless

Pseudo intellectual

20200312 143641
 
Why did you spell it BlackPilPres instead of BlkPillPres?

After reviewing both sides of the argument and actually reading both of your long ass posts (long posts are based)...

I'd say BlkPillPres is the winner of this duel.

I'm pretty sure this guy is a troll, some of the things he said just seemed like obvious bait, like putting words in my mouth as though outright trying to anger me, he made his trolling too obvious, so I stopped the back and forth, I'll pretty much just ignore is posts from this point on lol
 
You are a troll. You're an inceltear screenshot maker and attempt to make us look like pretentious morons.
You're new to our forum and you're baselessly accusing well-known members of being IT LARPers, I'd be careful if I were you.

@Marquis de Sade I think wee gimpy has made an alt.
 
I'm pretty sure this guy is a troll, some of the things he said just seemed like obvious bait, like putting words in my mouth as though outright trying to anger me, he made his trolling too obvious, so I stopped the back and forth, I'll pretty much just ignore is posts from this point on lol

True. What started out as a self professed high iq intellectual discussion turned into a real shitshow.
 
I agree there is an exception, if you are fucking a whore and you make her cum, of course you will feel validated then, so I guess that's a loophole, its like cheating the system JFL, paying for sex and taking your validation from the bitch on the back end of the deal :feelskek:

Whores hate it when an incel-looking client asks them what their sexual preferences are.

 
True. What started out as a self professed high iq intellectual discussion turned into a real shitshow.

:feelskek::feelskek::feelskek::feelskek::feelskek::feelskek:
I think he edited the main post, I can't remember seeing this when I first read it:
I will start off this thread by saying BlackPilPres is easily one of if not the most intellectually stunted users of this forum. The man posts low-IQ post after low-IQ post and I highly disregard him as even a fellow human being. He is clearly coping with his whole "ego death" ideology.
:feelskek::feelskek::feelskek::feelskek::feelskek:

JFL at taking pride in "being human", who wants to be regarded as the thing you hate anyways

Definitely a troll, but atleast he's a funny one


Whores hate it when an incel-looking client asks them what their sexual preferences are.


This site may prove useful for understanding just what whores think and how they operate, I'll save it
 
You're new to our forum and you're baselessly accusing well-known members of being IT LARPers, I'd be careful if I were you.

@Marquis de Sade I think wee gimpy has made an alt.

lol. BlackpillPres has said things that are obviously bait-tier. He was literally saying communism was inevitable not too long ago.
:feelskek::feelskek::feelskek::feelskek::feelskek::feelskek:
I think he edited the main post, I can't remember seeing this when I first read it



:feelskek::feelskek::feelskek::feelskek::feelskek:

JFL at taking pride in "being human", who wants to be regarded as the thing you hate anyways

Definitely a troll, but atleast he's a funny one


This site may prove useful for understanding just what whores think and how they operate, I'll save it

I'm not saying you are low IQ. You are obviously trolling. What you write is low-IQ, and thus you would be if you believed it.
 
I'm pretty sure this guy is a troll, some of the things he said just seemed like obvious bait, like putting words in my mouth as though outright trying to anger me, he made his trolling too obvious, so I stopped the back and forth, I'll pretty much just ignore is posts from this point on lol
His join date, username, and posts are a bit suspect. There have been a lot of infiltrators since the corona-chan lockdown. Whether he is an infiltrator or not, he's been lurking on the site for awhile and it seems that his intention to join the site was to "IQmog" and call people out. If he was a member for longer, it would seem more like a legit debate. I don't disagree with everything he said in the opening of this thread, it's just autistic the way he spun it to say you're coping.
 
You still havent said which universities or what papers.

Your claims are useless

Pseudo intellectual
Pseudo-intellectual eh? Is that why Universities use my papers.

Paying a predatory journal to publish your bullshit doesn't count.
True. What started out as a self professed high iq intellectual discussion turned into a real shitshow.
Not surprised Jfl
lol. BlackpillPres has said things that are obviously bait-tier. He was literally saying communism was inevitable not too long ago.

Doesn't sound like bait when so many inside and outside agree with him.

I didn't agree with him on that point but don't see how it was a disingenuous discussion in any way.
 
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Who said you cant get validated by escorts? I had one 2 months back and it was a pretty validating experience. Now you can argue that she wasnt really interested in me and that her validation was fake. But it felt pretty real to me. If youre a non-chad male, this is the closest youll ever get to real validation.
I agree, it’s the best available opportunity for an unattractive male to “cope” with. May as well use the cards you’ve been dealt with, it may not be as fulfilling, although it’s better than nothing.
too high iq for me
TLDR - This idea that you can disconnect your happiness from validation is non-sense
 
This thread is basically tldr thread edition , motherfuckers need to type shorter sentences
 
common sense is way more important than IQ
You still need a decent amount of intelligence to function in society especially if you’re not blessed with great genetics. However, I agree self-awareness and critical thinking skills are just as essential, if not more important.
This thread is basically tldr thread edition , motherfuckers need to type shorter sentences
Over for ADHDcels
 
Aristotle IQ thread
 
That was interesting, hilarious and extremely depressing all at once.

“I usually dump unnatractive, unappealing clients. There's always a more compatible one around the corner. Too much mental stress. I'm not Politically Correct, and the queen bee can pick and choose
.”

JFL at literal whores referring to themselves as ‘the queen bee,’ that’s like a bin man referring to himself as ‘the trash king’ or a sewage plant worker calling himself ‘lord of the faeces.’

So interesting observing the forced perspectives people in humiliating positions use to cope.
 
Will agree with greycel for once
also
25322
 
“I usually dump unnatractive, unappealing clients. There's always a more compatible one around the corner. Too much mental stress. I'm not Politically Correct, and the queen bee can pick and choose.”

tbh im glad the other half of responses were along the lines of "im fine with ugly ass clients as long as they shower and are nice"
 
dn rd

validation from a woman is good, fucking a woman consensually is validation to me because im good enough to fuck hre
 
tbh im glad the other half of responses were along the lines of "im fine with ugly ass clients as long as they shower and are nice"
True, although I think it’s unlikely that women who have that much sex can get much pleasure from it anyway, they likely can’t view it as anything other than a financial transaction - especially the older ones who’ve been in the business a while.

They can probably disassociate very well from what they’re doing. It kinda makes sense that the fact a guy doesn’t smell like shit would be more important to them than any kind of aesthetic quality related to improving the pleasurability of the experience for them.
 
True, although I think it’s unlikely that women who have that much sex can get much pleasure from it anyway, they likely can’t view it as anything other than a financial transaction - especially the older ones who’ve been in the business a while.

They can probably disassociate very well from what they’re doing. It kinda makes sense that the fact a guy doesn’t smell like shit would be more important to them than any kind of aesthetic quality related to improving the pleasurability of the experience for them.

I don't care about their pleasure, I just want decent service from them
 
I don't care about their pleasure, I just want decent service from them
Agreed, anyone who’s getting an ego kick out of pleasuring a prostitute is servicing a ship that has not only sailed but is wrecked at the bottom of the ocean.
 

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