Serious Ascension and Inceldom Mutually Exclusive?

[37YearOldVirgin]

[Disclaimer: I haven't been on here long and am still trying to get my bearings regarding all of the concepts and terminology, so forgive me if this has been addressed before (even in depth), but I wanted to get the current state of thoughts and opinions and figured a thread was the best way to do it]

So I've noticed what appears to be a major competing high level narrative on this forum that's confusing me quite a bit, and wanted to know what all of you think on the matter. It seems to me that according to one camp of thought here, identifying as Incel definitionally equates to the condition of being a virgin or celibate for reasons that both are 'completely' out of one's control and 'immutable' (permanent/ inalterable). In other words, if the reasons for your celibacy are changeable or addressable in any way whatsoever.. then you are not Incel. Period.

On the other hand, I have also encountered within this forum frequent discussions related to, and even a declared intent to pursue, the phenomenon of 'Ascension', or the act escaping Inceldom via the process of doing everything in one's power to increase one's attractiveness to the opposite sex, including but not limited to : Working out/ getting fit; Upgrading personal style and hygiene; Bandaiding or concealing one's physical flaws (such as growing a beard to mask a weak chin/ jaw); Moving geographic locations to maximize the prevailing cultural perception of one's attractiveness; Working on one's self in order to maximize one's personal confidence, charm, likeability and overall charisma, or otherwise mitigate psychological or personality flaws and inhibitions through therapy and medication; and even undergoing plastic surgery to mitigate egregious facial imperfections.

Logically speaking, these two premises are mutually exclusive and can not coexist. In short, the truth of one necessarily negates the other.

Of course I have seen a rebuttal to the Ascension philosophy put forth a few times that more or less asserts that, while Ascension is strictly speaking possible, a 'true' Incel is beyond hope due to the aforementioned 'immutable' afflictions, and for that reason anyone who does succeed in escaping Inceldom was never really an Incel in the first place. But apart from this being a 'no true scottsman fallacy', where a position is prima facie assumed to be true and the counter position refuted merely on the basis of the trueness of the initial position (think one faction of Christianity claiming another faction is not truly Christian merely because they hold different or opposing beliefs), this would also seem to indicate that the number of 'true' Incels must indeed be very small, as the list of immutable conditions for which there is absolutely no remedy must also be very small (egregious mental and physical disabilities or deformaties being about the only ones I can really think of).

In any case, I'm very interested to know what you all think. Which is true (or true 'est')? Is it even possible to escape Inceldom? Are those who have Ascended or hope to Ascend Fakecels or Volcels? For Truecels, which are the 'true' conditions under which the Blackpill exclusively applies, and for which it is truly over. When can one say that there is literally zero percent chance of escape whilst still being 100% intellectually honest?

**For context, I'm a 37 year old virgin. White, 5'5, small frame, 100 lbs, bad skin, bugged out eyes with with huge bags under them, big bulbous nose, week cheeks and recessed chin, bad skin with alopecia, abysmal confidence and high levels of social anxiety. But currently I still seem to believe that escape is at least 'theoretically' possible.**

 

[non_factor]

Ascension is a term used to describe the social success mentalcels experience once they go outside.

 

[AfrikanCel]

Ascension is a term used to describe the social success mentalcels experience once they go outside.

Essentially this. Truecels (deformities or genecels) can't ascend NO MATTER WHAT.

 

[Spite]

Ascension is a term used to describe the social success mentalcels experience once they go outside.

Legit

 

[Modus Coperandi]

I don't think both of these are mutually exclusive.
Ascension = getting laid without paying for it. looksmaxxing is not ascension.
In fact I think you are not an incel if you never tried as hard as you can to escape but ultimately failed. There are quite a few people here who never even approached a women and declare themselves incels merely because they think they are too ugly to begin with. (only very few are)
They think they will fail anyway and the act of never even trying is the "smart" way because it saves them from the pain of rejection.
To be honest if you are still afraid of rejection as an incel you are most likely just a mentalcel.

Surgeryceling or locationceling are almost always retarded options if you ask me and should not be seen as normal / expected ways of potential escape.

 

[theoldnick]

once you ascend you are not incel anymore but you are a sage ^^
you can still post here but not brag

mentalcels do have more chances than truecels

and lava burst has no cooldown

 

[37YearOldVirgin]

Sure

once you ascend you are not incel anymore but you are a sage ^^
you can still post here but not brag

mentalcels do have more chances than truecels

and lava burst has no cooldown

Sure, makes total sense. But if to be an Incel means that your fate is truly entirely out of your control, then once someone escapes doesn't that mean that by definition they were never an Incel to begin with (in other words, to say they are 'no longer' an Incel is incorrect)? And more accurately all along they were actually Volcel, and only celibate due to lack of knowledge or skill, lack of trying for fear of being rejectes, or just being unwilling to put in the work needed to escape inceldom.. and then finally were able to take the steps necessary for them to escape?.

And if the above is true, then doesn't that mean that in order to claim Incel we'd have to have first taken considerable, varied, and concerted steps to escape, and also persevered long enough, and then STILL failed time after time, and as such 'most' of us who claim to be Incel are actually Volcel at bottom (in fact I believe I'm a combination of all three I mentioned above), and are mostly just upset that other men who have less impediments to their success have it so easy while we actually have to work pretty hard at it (though it's not impossible)?

Btw, what do you mean that mentalcels have more chances than truecels?

 

[Abomination]

I define inceldom to be the state in which the set of short-term actions that have a reasonable chance of getting you laid, without having to pay, with women that are at least 3/10, is empty.

Therefore, somebody who could become much more attractive to the extent of being able to attract women through short-term actions, such as getting a better haircut or going on accutane for 2 months, would not be incel. However, a 350 lb fatass who needs to work out for 2 years to lose half of his weight would be incel.

 

[manch]

an incel can only "ascend" to being cucked by a fat ugly ethnic foid. "ascension" do a mid/high tier normie life is impossible for anyone on here. the only way we can "ascend" is to get a fast nasty abro chick. thats it.

 

[happiless]

An incel can only ascend through surgery or JBW-maxxing in Asia. "Ascension" through any other means is only possible for fakecels.

 

[37YearOldVirgin]

I define inceldom to be the state in which the set of short-term actions that have a reasonable chance of getting you laid, without having to pay, with women that are at least 3/10, is empty.

Therefore, somebody who could become much more attractive to the extent of being able to attract women through short-term actions, such as getting a better haircut or going on accutane for 2 months, would not be incel. However, a 350 lb fatass who needs to work out for 2 years to lose half of his weight would be incel.

But (in most cases) didn't said 350 lb person voluntarily enter into that condition. I mean, I'm in a similar position where I'm an extreme ectomorph with a small frame, and would have to 'seriously' study nutrition and bodybuilding and workout and diet consistently and in an educated way for literally months to even years before I could change anything. And sure it's not 'fair' that my twin brother got born with a better frame and 6 inches extra height, and so it comes much more naturally to him.. but isn't calling my condition 'involuntary' a little disingenuous, since I 'could' actually do something about some of it within a reasonable amount of time? (I say this as someone who has never really been to the gym or tried to workout, but who has now begun going and is determined not to quit until I see results).

An incel can only ascend through surgery or JBW-maxxing in Asia. "Ascension" through any other means is only possible for fakecels.

This is more in line with what I was thinking/ getting at.

an incel can only "ascend" to being cucked by a fat ugly ethnic foid. "ascension" do a mid/high tier normie life is impossible for anyone on here. the only way we can "ascend" is to get a fast nasty abro chick. thats it.

So does that mean that literally 'everyone' on here has and egregious and inalterable mental or physical disability, or has already tried to take every step available to them to try and increase their options and still failed completely through no fault of there own? Just looking for clarity as I am intending to and taking steps to ascend myself after 37 years of nothing, and am a little confused as to how it could literally be impossible for so many of us.

 

[fOreVER]

Surgery. This is the only community which advocates for surgery lmfao

 

[Edantez]

Ascension is still theoretically possible for skincels providing everything else is decent.

 

[Abomination]

But (in most cases) didn't said 350 lb person voluntarily enter into that condition. I mean, I'm in a similar position where I'm an extreme ectomorph with a small frame, and would have to 'seriously' study nutrition and bodybuilding and workout and diet consistently and in an educated way for literally months to even years before I could change anything. And sure it's not 'fair' that my twin brother got born with a better frame and 6 inches extra height, and so it comes much more naturally to him.. but isn't calling my condition 'involuntary' a little disingenuous, since I 'could' actually do something about some of it within a reasonable amount of time? (I say this as someone who has never really been to the gym or tried to workout, but who has now begun going and is determined not to quit until I see results).


This is more in line with what I was thinking/ getting at.


So does that mean that literally 'everyone' on here has and egregious and inalterable mental or physical disability, or has already tried to take every step available to them to try and increase their options and still failed completely through no fault of there own? Just looking for clarity as I am intending to and taking steps to ascend myself after 37 years of nothing, and am a little confused as to how it could literally be impossible for so many of us.

Whether or not it was within the control of the 350 lb man to prevent his weight gain is irrelevant. Inceldom is a state of being which only takes the present into account. Otherwise, you could say that somebody who mouthbreathed as a child (and is consequently ugly) isn't a true incel because they had control over whether or not they mouthbreathed and chose to do so.

If there's nothing you can do within a short time frame (<6 months) that could give you a reasonable chance of getting laid, then you're incel.

 

[BlackPillUNC]

I'm of the belief that ascension is not actually possible. By that I mean, if you are truly an Incel, you will always be an Incel.

This definition is very strict and some incels disagree with it. I don't think ascension is really possible, and if plastic surgery can actually fix your problems then they must not have been that numerous to begin with.

I strongly believe in the "It's Over" mentality, and while I think having hope as a truecel is useless, I also still have hope too.

 

[37YearOldVirgin]

Whether or not it was within the control of the 350 lb man to prevent his weight gain is irrelevant. Inceldom is a state of being which only takes the present into account. Otherwise, you could say that somebody who mouthbreathed as a child (and is consequently ugly) isn't a true incel because they had control over whether or not they mouthbreathed and chose to do so.

If there's nothing you can do within a short time frame (<6 months) that could give you a reasonable chance of getting laid, then you're incel.

<6 months? Uh that just sounds like Volcel cope to me. A free pass to LDAR and feel justified while doing it.

Nothing worthwhile in life takes under 6 months to accomplish. Can you get a degree, or learn a talent or hobby, or even top a video game leaderboard in under 6 months? Heck, even normie tier dudes probably take more than 6 months to get in shape or find and develop and normie level relationship. Lmao.

 

[37YearOldVirgin]

I'm of the belief that ascension is not actually possible. By that I mean, if you are truly an Incel, you will always be an Incel.

This definition is very strict and some incels disagree with it. I don't think ascension is really possible, and if plastic surgery can actually fix your problems then they must not have been that numerous to begin with.

I strongly believe in the "It's Over" mentality, and while I think having hope as a truecel is useless, I also still have hope too.

I agree. I do believe the blackpill is real for 'some', and that truecel is a thing that can happen. I just get the distinct impression that the majority of ppl are claiming truecel as a crutch and excuse, when in fact they are volcel for a variety of reasons... and that's adding insult to injury for the actual truecels out there.

 

[BlackPillUNC]

I agree. I do believe the blackpill is real for 'some', and that truecel is a thing that can happen. I just get the distinct impression that the majority of ppl are claiming truecel as a crutch and excuse, when in fact they are volcel for a variety of reasons... and that's adding insult to injury for the actual truecels out there.

That is absolutely the case. Some volcels here have a mental lapse and admit that if they weren't lazy or stupid they probably wouldn't be incel.

I'm a firm believer that if you have found this place, you probably belong here. Sure there have been recent instances of LARPers who have lied about who they really are, but I think if you feel motivated to lie about yourself to become a male virgin there is something wrong with you that means you probably belong here too.

 

[37YearOldVirgin]

but I think if you feel motivated to lie about yourself to become a male virgin there is something wrong with you that means you probably belong here too.

THIS. Lmao.

I dunno, I just feel that, even though my situation is shit.. and of course many ppl have it much better off than me. There is a huge grey area between a truecel/ mentalcel where it 'really' is over, and Chad getting pussy thrown at him all day. I also know that, if Im being honest with myself, there is a whole lot i could have done (and could still do) in order to improve my chances, and claiming incel as an excuse to give up and LDAR, and go around being bitter and hating Chad for being lucky or femoids in general for having standards, is just a sad sack cop out. And bullshit if you ask me.

In the most egregious cases I see some saying they'd never fuck a sub 4/5 or ethnic femoid, or refuse to put in more than a few months work to even try to become fuckable themselves. Which in the first case both proves femcels can exist while also making the commenter an utter hypocrite in the process, and in the second case is just pure laziness and a fucking insult to the truecels who are the reason Blackpill ideology exists in the first place.

Tldr; Incel/ Blackpill exists so those for which there 'actually' are ZERO options can understand the truth and causes of their predicament and come together to console, support, and inform one another, and anyone using that banner as cover for self-imposed celibacy due laziness, hypocritical standards, hate, or ignorance, brings insult and disrespect to the ideology and it's true adherents, and pollutes the community with false narratives and information imho.