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Serious An honest discussion about the ethics of prostitution

Has this changed your views?

  • Nigga I didn't read that shit

  • No, I still think prostitution is entirely moral and ethical

  • Hmmmm, I may need to think about this for a bit longer

  • Yes! My mind has been changed!

  • Awoooooooooo!


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sneed (not chuck)

sneed (not chuck)

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Can we have a genuine, high-brow discussion regarding the ethics of prostitution? In particular, I'd like to discuss the following statistics which have mostly been taken from Melissa Farley's research. Farley’s research, which I will be getting into shortly, focuses specifically on prostitution, both indoors and outdoors. Her work is pivotal due its debunking of many myths associated with prostitution. Instead of considering prostitution in abstract terms, Farley has conducted research with several prostituted individuals in countries such as Canada, Colombia, Germany, Mexico, South Africa, Thailand, Turkey, the US, and Zambia.

  • 71% percent of the respondents had been physically assaulted while in prostitution
One may suspect that the inclusion of third-world countries may be unfairly skewing that number, but that isn’t the case. In a separate 1998 study that specifically looked at street prostitution in San Francisco, Farley found that 82% percent of participants reported being physically assaulted. Furthermore, 83% percent reported being threatened with a weapon.
  • 68% percent of surveyed individuals met the criteria for PTSD
This becomes clearer when we read what some of the respondents said. A Canadian woman replied that “what rape is to others, is normal to us”. As Farley summarises, “Postmodern descriptions of prostituted women as sex workers promote an acceptance of conditions that in any other employment context would be correctly described as sexual harassment, sexual exploitation, or rape. Women’s experiences of violence and their psychological response to it cannot be theorized away”.

Some argue that these statistics are the product of street prostitution/illegal markets and that with proper regulation and policing, these harms can be avoided. However:
  • A shocking 81% of legal brothel workers self-reported that they wanted to leave prostitution but were unable to do so
This is due to several reasons, one of them being the fact that prostitution, legal or illegal, very seldom is liberating in any sense. It does not lift one from poverty but instead exacerbates the situation. Furthermore, as one can expect, the kinds of individuals willing to trade women for profit tend to not be the nicest of people. Farley herself reported that she was threatened at gunpoint during one of her interviews in a brothel.

One of the most popular legal brothels in the world, The Bunny Ranch, is located in Nevada and is owned by Dennis Hof, writer of the autobiography titled “The Art of the Pimp”. In the spirit of allowing prostituted individuals to speak for themselves, here are some quotes from prostituted women who have legally worked for Dennis Hof.

First, Jennifer O’Kane says that during her first week, “he asked me to undress and sit next to him,” O’Kane said. “At that point, he put his hands around my neck and explained to me that I was his.” In a police report filed in 2016, she also claimed that he raped and battered her daily.

Diana Grandmaison claims that in 2009 Hof summoned her to the brothel’s bar, reached under her skirt, and assaulted her in public. She also claims that he assaulted women regularly. She adds “he did this to girls at the brothel all the time. He would make young girls sit on his lap. I had no choice — you couldn’t say no. If you said no, you were going to pay a price and get kicked out of the brothel.”

Krissy Summers claims “I walked in and he said, ‘Hi, I’m Dennis Hof.’ And I remember thinking, ‘I know who you are.’ And then he said, ‘Take off your pants.’ That was it. ‘Take off your pants.’ I was absolutely terrified. Dennis was only the second man I’d ever been with.”

Another woman, Cami Parker, states “You want Daddy to like you. You won’t have a very good time if he doesn’t, so if he wants you to [have sex with him], you definitely should.” Parker also states that Hof pressured her to constantly lose weight, resulting in her developing a serious eating disorder that almost killed her.

A woman who refused to be named stated “Dennis pulls me close to him, opens my legs, and I pulled my legs together, said ‘no,’ and made excuses to try to leave or make him leave.” When Dennis didn’t allow her to leave, she eventually “Gave in”.

Unsurprisingly, a psychiatrist who did a psychological profile of Dennis Hof claimed that he was an unempathetic narcissist and stated that “Dennis uses the women he ‘loves’ for his own desires, loyal companionship, and sex. Like any pimp, he exploits them. This is sadistic behavior, and it is both unrecognized and denied.” From this, we begin to discover that pimps in legal prostitution (ie brothel owners) are no different from their black-market counterparts. Furthermore, the women who engage in legal prostitution are often in no better condition than those in illegal situations.

The Netherlands is often touted as an example of legal prostitution done right. However, actual research into Amsterdam and its infamous red-light district reveals something quite different. Farley claims, in an Intelligence Squared debate, that 80% of prostitutes in Amsterdam are foreigners mostly imported from poorer countries. This is corroborated by the newspaper ‘Le Monde diplomatique’ which also adds that 70% of the prostituted women in Amsterdam are there illegally and have no immigration papers.

Why would this be the case? Well, in a relatively egalitarian society such as the Netherlands, where women are given relatively equal opportunities to men and access to education, most women do not choose prostitution. There are, in fact, not enough women willing to do prostitution to keep brothels open so brothel owners have to exploit some of the most vulnerable members of society (ie. Poverty-stricken women from Eastern Europe, Asia, and Africa) in order to keep business running. The fact that these women have no papers is an advantage because it means they are less likely to contact the police should anything go wrong. This may be shocking, but it is not unexpected. A similar working model is found in other forms of legal or grey—area prostitution such as Asian massage parlors where many of the women working often have no immigration papers and are brought into the united states with the promise of employment only to find that they will be expected to do sex work. With no immigration papers, many are afraid that they will be arrested should they complain to authorities. Although the joke about ‘happy endings’ in Asian massage parlors is often spoken about in comical terms, the reality of it simply isn’t funny. For more information on this, I would recommend the documentary Hidden Sex Slaves of Massage Parlours which follows an investigator in San Francisco who inspects Asian Massage Parlours and finds many women desperate to leave.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4KipfL-A0Y
 
How is this exploitation by brothel owners in the Netherlands any different than what goes on in every other industry that uses illegal immigrants or has people who don’t want to work there but do it for money?
 
Dude just go fuck a whore. It’s not that big of a deal
 
The porn industry is one of the more exploitave ones that there is. But the truth is that there are a lot of bussiness/industries where theer are a lot of fucking up employees kinda thing. So it's not that abnormal.

It's easier because it's not as regulated, nor it will be. But prostitutes will stop being a thing in the near future when sex bots come around.
 
How is this exploitation by brothel owners in the Netherlands any different than what goes on in every other industry that uses illegal immigrants or has people who don’t want to work there but do it for money?
Fast food employees don't leave 68% of their workforce with PTSD. Clearly, there is a different psychological reaction to unwanted manual labor vs copious amounts of unwanted sex with strangers.
 
Fast food employees don't leave 68% of their workforce with PTSD. Clearly, there is a different psychological reaction to unwanted manual labor vs copious amounts of unwanted sex with strangers.
Trauma is for weak faggots
 
Fast food employees don't leave 68% of their workforce with PTSD.
Oh no, I have ptsd cause I gave my body away for money to incels instead of to chad for free. I’m so traumatized.

Clearly, there is a different psychological reaction to unwanted manual labor vs copious amounts of unwanted sex with strangers.
Because most actual manual labour is done by men, not women. Whores can choose to do some other job like being a street cleaner or some manual labour but they choose not to.
 
Who cares though?
 
How's the thesis going
 
I reject the notion that females are forced into it. Maybe in poverty stricken nations. But not in Western ones. The reason is because a woman can easily get a husband, if she is inclined.
The real ethical problem imo is that the majority of men aren't getting sex and have no realistic avenue to get sex.
But yeah, trafficking is a problem, abuse is a problem, no doubt
 
I reject the notion that females are forced into it. Maybe in poverty stricken nations. But not in Western ones. The reason is because a woman can easily get a husband, if she is inclined.
The real ethical problem imo is that the majority of men aren't getting sex and have no realistic avenue to get sex.
But yeah, trafficking is a problem, abuse is a problem, no doubt
it should be highly regulated
 
why should I give a fuck? My entire life has been nothing but pain and suffering. In fact I am glad protituteion causes the workers such pain and humiliation.
 
Who cares about the ethics of prostitution? This world isn't predicated on ethics anyways.

Sex is a transaction anyways. Where both parties (assuming they're adults) agree to it.

Not gonna shed a tear for prostitutes.
 

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