these are not good arguments
have you ever tried arguing any of these and seen success? I highly doubt it because they suck and are proven to not work. It's no wonder, when they all rely on you only seeing how correct they sound when you are incel, not when you are a person who wants to deny these arguments.
you must understand that when people are actively trying to believe a lie instead of the truth, it is extremely easy for them to rationalize why things happen. People do not care about reason, they just want to win the argument. Which means if you go back and forth with them more than 2-3 times, they've already lost their commitment to rationality
1) 'ok well sure, but that still means you lack confidence and i can say you need confidence'
2) 'we call you that because of the vibe, and don't know how big ur dick is, the fact we guessed right is proof the vibe exists'
3) same as 1
4) 'don't have to, you're defending incels ergo I can guess how you act'
5) 'that's misogynistic and we do it to love ourselves'
All of these are like famously, arguments that do not work. Especially number 4. It sounds like it's very much written by someone who assumes that their opponent will have the same biases they themselves do. Noone is ever going to accept the argument that they 'don't know you are hateful' jfl have you been on the internet for a day
You want to know the actual best arguments? I pretty highly suspect you won't actually really bother engaging an argument with a lookism denier and just posted this to feel correct, but incase you do here they are;
1) Ask them if it's rational to believe that ALL ugly men have shit personality when in reality, even if you were to say for hypothetical that it's rarer, which is a lie but anyway.... there would still exist some who don't, and those men also frequently post about dating struggles
2) Point out that when the topic of incels is not part of the discussion, 1 of the most common things people say in dating is 'I'm just not attracted so there can be no chemistry'. Read these comments;
View: https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/1egjjxz/women_it_is_okay_to_care_about_looks_in_a_partner/
3) If point 1 is true and some ugly men are good people, why are there also terrible personalities and fat unemployed people who do nothing, who have sex regularly. All I have to prove is that it's way way harder. Attractive people evidently slay without effort. Even if ugly tries for years, he doesn't.
Point out that within the camp of men who get tinder matches, women famously and regularly complain about how terrible these men are and how they are shit people with no morals.
4) If you can believe it is not about looks, you can feel better about the fact ugly men are all alone (morality is the #1 virtue not only in modern society but also in both sides of the political spectrum. Tbh this is the best reason to bring up and is often what convinces them, if you manage to convince them)
5) If you can believe it is not about looks, you don't have to feel bad about a privilege
6) People have a long and extremely well documented history of not facing reality whenever reality does not benefit them. We have extremely good science that suggests all humans are biased, even outside of this, meaning you both have reason to be biased, and are a life form that is famously, prone to bias. Say points 4,5 and 7 all show benefits
7) If you can believe that all incels didn't try as hard or are as good people as you yourself, you can believe you yourself are a good person or tried hard and 'earned it', even if you are a bad person or despite not actually doing an awful lot (essentially, if they have to accept that an incel in denial can try for years, that trumps the 1 week of effort they put in to finding their last gf)
8) Young men are taught that being able to have a girlfriend is what makes you a man. If this system is not currently working because it's just looks, then the egoes of literally every sexhaving man, is based on a lie.
9) statistics. Literally every study ever done on looks proves it matters.
10) Focus on ugly men and not average. Tbh this is the biggest mistake I see users make, and it's because people are fucking awful at actualization. You assume your arguments make as much sense to them as they do for you, forgetting your opponent is biased. You fail to put yourself in their shoes. So you think you can get away with saying it, even if it's true, you forget that they will just use it against you. There are a lot of fakecels who are just average looking and try to argue that average men have no chance. Even if it's generally true, which is the better argument? That ugly gets nothing, or that average gets nothing? They can so fucking easily point to examples of 5/10s in relationships. Sure, you might personally be biased reading this point and think 'bu bu bu looks inflation is something I want to prove!' But this is about winning an argument. Looks inflation also means that sub 4s are literally even less likely to find love, which means it's harder than ever for them to find examples. If you focus on them, then they can only point to people like Danny DeVito, who is 77 years old, rich, and famous. So you can just say 'things have changed also he's a celebrity. Do you think it's fair that an ugly man has to get famous, which millions of people try and fail to do so every year, in order to pull? Even if you do, that proves lookism exists. An attractive guy can do point 3.
The golden rule: Never. Ever. Say incel. Only say 'ugly men'. It makes their job almost impossible, if you say incel, they can default to the lie that incel = hateful and will immediately just call you an incel, defending your interests. If you say incel, you will lose. Do not try to argue that 'not all incels are hateful'. Say not all virgins. Also do not say 'women don't like nice guys'. Ever. Again, this is an argument that a user makes if they fail to understand what irrationality means. Sure, you know you are a 'nice guy' but they don't have to respect that claim and will just say 'you aren't really a nice guy tho'. Then you say 'you don't know that' they say 'don't have to' and boom now you have exhausted your 3 goes at getting them to consider things before they just shut down and ignore anything you say
Remember though. Even with all of these, you'll likely fail. The only real course you have to stick it in their heads is to just claim they're being biased. They are. Mainly you just have to maintain that they're denying some things they know for sure are real, like 'I'm just not atrracted to him'. Concede that this is valid, and watch them try to defend how daters never say that. Point out the idea that looks get you in the door, personality decides whether you stay or go.' Even if that is a cope, it still contains 'looks get you in the door', so if you don't have them, your personality does not even matter. Clarify to them that when uglies say personality doesn't matter, they're referring to their own, not the personality of selectable men.
The thing I fucking despise about humans is just how irrational they get when things don't suit them.
t. someone who has tried, failed repeatedly, but won a few. Basically it comes down to how far in denial they are. If they are really in denial, harp on about point 2 and say 'if you are really so in denial taht you think point 2 isn't true, then you clearly aren't being rational, because if the discussion is not about incels, then literally, unanimously, people say 'I'm just not attracted' and it's one of the most common and important parts of dating, known by all. But if the discussion is about incels, that goes out the window. That proves even if something is really fucking obvious, you deny it anyway, which means you shouldn't trust your opinion and are just being rational.'
