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ALL history is meaningless. Nationalists are LARPers. You don't know anything about your ancestors.

D. B. Gooner

D. B. Gooner

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I understand engaging with history if you find it entertaining like mythology or when ragebaiting people, but a lot of you on here spend so much time and effort on threads about history.

You are trusting historians (random strangers) who research documents claimed to be written by the primary sources (random strangers who have been dead for 1000 years). A 1000 year long chain of "trust me bro".

History is simply dismissible.
I'm not saying Napoleon didn't exist, I'm saying his existence is unreliable and thus dismissible. His life story can't be confirmed, so it is meaningless. You've never met him, you've never met the people who wrote about him, you've never met the historian who repackaged those writings into a cohesive text.

Let me take this critique to an extreme. You can't even know anything about your own direct ancestors. Their life stories are also dismissible.
I can't know anything about my great-grandfather. I know he existed because logic tells me that in order for me to exist I must've had a great-grandfather. That's as far as I can possibly know about him. Any information I may have on him comes from my family. I am trusting them. It is a belief, I am putting my faith in them, it is like a religion.

Who knows? They might be liars. Maybe they've overexaggerated some details to feel more proud of their heritage. I will never know. But unlike with history, I have a reason to trust my family's information on my great-grandfather, because my family cares about me and has less of an incentive to lie.
You don't know historians, you don't know the historical figures, as far as you know, neither exist, and if they do, you have no reason to believe they have your best interest in mind.

The same people on here who cry "The elites have manipulated us through media" will be history-nuts simply because the history they've been taught gives them an identity. They're proud of their "based heritage".

"I wanna be like the based nazis!"
"My people were crusaders, and we will do it again!"

You're just roleplaying, you're no different from an anime cosplayer.
 
Also, history teachers and professors are always biased in some way, so there are multiple layers of bias on top of sources which are already biased.

Information about history is in and of itself biased because you cannot learn infinite facts about history so you will naturally pick and choose what you learn and what you forget.

Also you have people making stuff up purely for shock value. "George washington smoked weed and was a pedophile bro"
 
I can't know anything about my great-grandfather.
Thats a you problem.
My great grandfathers wrote and left documents about their lives and those of their fathers.
 
I understand engaging with history if you find it entertaining like mythology or when ragebaiting people, but a lot of you on here spend so much time and effort on threads about history.

You are trusting historians (random strangers) who research documents claimed to be written by the primary sources (random strangers who have been dead for 1000 years). A 1000 year long chain of "trust me bro".

History is simply dismissible.
I'm not saying Napoleon didn't exist, I'm saying his existence is unreliable and thus dismissible. His life story can't be confirmed, so it is meaningless. You've never met him, you've never met the people who wrote about him, you've never met the historian who repackaged those writings into a cohesive text.

Let me take this critique to an extreme. You can't even know anything about your own direct ancestors. Their life stories are also dismissible.
I can't know anything about my great-grandfather. I know he existed because logic tells me that in order for me to exist I must've had a great-grandfather. That's as far as I can possibly know about him. Any information I may have on him comes from my family. I am trusting them. It is a belief, I am putting my faith in them, it is like a religion.

Who knows? They might be liars. Maybe they've overexaggerated some details to feel more proud of their heritage. I will never know. But unlike with history, I have a reason to trust my family's information on my great-grandfather, because my family cares about me and has less of an incentive to lie.
You don't know historians, you don't know the historical figures, as far as you know, neither exist, and if they do, you have no reason to believe they have your best interest in mind.

The same people on here who cry "The elites have manipulated us through media" will be history-nuts simply because the history they've been taught gives them an identity. They're proud of their "based heritage".

"I wanna be like the based nazis!"
"My people were crusaders, and we will do it again!"

You're just roleplaying, you're no different from an anime cosplayer.
If you can't find any evidence other than words about your ancestors' lives, you might just be a thirdworldcel.
 
It's not about what actually happened, it's about what people think happened. Who gives a shit what Napoleon was actually like or what he actually did? What is more important is what is written about him, what tales are told of him, what songs are sung of him. History fundamentally is just a way for humans to immortalize their legacy, directly (via their own achievements) or indirectly (by seeing oneself as a part of a long tradition of continuity embodied in a concept like race or nation). Why is that important? Well humans by design derive stimulation from what others think of them. That is just how the brain works. Even the most solitary of scholars seeks an audience by virtue of his writings. Nietzsche was right in pointing out that the purely ascetic ideal doesn't exist. We all care about what others think of us, what identities they see us as etc. The appeal of history lies precisely in the prospect of posterity looking back at us and thinking about us long after we are gone.
 
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Thats a you problem.
My great grandfathers wrote and left documents about their lives and those of their fathers.
No, you believe they did.
If you can't find any evidence other than words about your ancestors' lives, you might just be a thirdworldcel.
Missed the point the thread was making award.
 
It's not about what actually happened, it's about what people think happened. Who gives a shit what Napoleon was actually like or what he actually did? What is more important is what is written about him, what tales are told of him, what songs are sung of him. History fundamentally is just a way for humans to immortalize their legacy, directly (via their own achievements) or indirectly (by seeing oneself as a part of a long tradition of continuity embodied in a concept like race or nation).
So you agree it's as valuable as mythology?
 
its all cope and or delusion

i think we all subconsciously understand that nothing actually has any effect you unless you can empirically and tangibly verify it
 
Missed the point the thread was making award.
Your "point" was uninteresting, just that we can't know anything for sure... everyone knows that already.
 
Your "point" was uninteresting, just that we can't know anything for sure... everyone knows that already.
If it's obvious why argue against it instead of ignoring it? You've asserted that you know things because of your ancestors historical documentation and are now contradicting yourself.
 
You've asserted that you know things and are now contradicting yourself.
"to know" doesn't necessarly mean with certainty, otherwise the word wouldn't even mean anything, as you has said yourself that certainty doesn't exist.

I claimed to "know" because the evidence left by my ancestors correlates with other evidence, the press of that time, government/army/church records, words from my family, etc
Yeah it's not 100% sure, there's always room for error, but what even is 100% sure ? Is anything ?
 
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"to know" doesn't necessarly mean with certainty, otherwise the word wouldn't even mean anything, as you has said yourself that certainty doesn't exist.

I claimed to "know" because the evidence left by my ancestors correlates with other evidence, the press of that time, government/army/church records, words from my family, etc
Yeah it's not 100% sure, there's always room for error, but what even is 100% ? Is anything ?
It literally does, that's the only way the word knowledge can have meaning. Knowledge can't be a spectrum. It must be binary. If that was a spectrum, anyone could claim that they know anything even if unfactual, and they wouldn't be wrong. Every religion would then be knowledge rather than belief.
 
It literally does, that's the only way the word knowledge can have meaning. Knowledge can't be a spectrum. It must be binary. If that was a spectrum, anyone could claim that they know anything even if unfactual, and they wouldn't be wrong. Every religion would then be knowledge rather than belief.
It is a spectrum though... have you ever heard of th field of mathematics called "probability" ?

Can you tell us then, what is 100% sure, and prove it ?
 
It is a spectrum though... have you ever heard of th field of mathematics called "probability" ?

Can you tell us then, what is 100% sure, and prove it ?
No because that is the same type of testimony I'm arguing against in this thread. I posses knowledge on a personal level gathered through experience that I don't need to prove to anyone else.
 
Yup. I 100% exist. I've experienced being and am currently and continually experiencing it.
Anything else ? Because we wont go far with just that...
 
Anything else ? Because we wont go far with just that...
Isn't one enough? If I know one thing, saying I can acquire knowledge with certainty through experience is correct.
 
Isn't one enough? If I know one thing, saying I can acquire knowledge with certainty through experience is correct.
Are you really certain of it though ?
 
My history is I was a loser in my youth and still a loser now, how do I ignore my history
 
I agree ancient history is kinda nonsense if you claim you are crusader lineage or something ppl will just laugh at you

But most ppl are probably just talking more recent "history", I didn't see that many jeets in downtown back when I was young and I want them gone
 
Good for you. I suppose you never do anything though, because you are not 100% certain of anything else...
No, I am, I just can't prove it.
 
Good for you. I suppose you never do anything though, because you are not 100% certain of anything else...
And to be fair, even if you can only know you exist, I've literally never claimed not to act on belief. I said that you can choose to put your faith in your family, but you can't claim to "know" they're telling the truth. So maybe you're right about the word being meaningless if binary since it's only applicable to existence. But it is also meaningless as a spectrum, it can literally be replaced by "believe" in every single context and it would be more accurate.
 
I understand engaging with history if you find it entertaining like mythology or when ragebaiting people, but a lot of you on here spend so much time and effort on threads about history.

You are trusting historians (random strangers) who research documents claimed to be written by the primary sources (random strangers who have been dead for 1000 years). A 1000 year long chain of "trust me bro"
Thousands of independent sources just brushed off.

Brutal.
 
Thousands of independent sources just brushed off.

Brutal.
Thread is basically a repackaging of my reply to your thread from 2 days ago. Just felt like debating someone but no nationalist got ragebaited.
 

If they faked the gas chambers, they can fake anything.
 
Kys you filthy jew
 
Well I'll take it as truth when jews fuck off from palestine
 
History is incredibly useful people dont change and most of them will do as there ancestors did. of course people who larp and claim there decedents of crusaders are gay and cringe. but like anything it has its place and time. Those who dont learn from it are doomed to repeat it
 
History is incredibly useful people dont change and most of them will do as there ancestors did. of course people who larp and claim there decedents of crusaders are gay and cringe. but like anything it has its place and time. Those who dont learn from it are doomed to repeat it
But you can say the same about fictional works. You can learn a lot from tragedies if they are made in a realistic manner. After all they, they come from real authors with real personal experiences. They are repackaged life-stories. A character makes a choice, that choice leads to x, y and z, and you may learn from it.
 
But you can say the same about fictional works. You can learn a lot from tragedies if they are made in a realistic manner. After all they, they come from real authors with real personal experiences. They are repackaged life-stories. A character makes a choice, that choice leads to x, y and z, and you may learn from it.
fiction isnt real. that's the difference. whilst fiction like everything else in a culture can actively reflect the beliefs, traditions and morals of those people it can never show us a direct cause it acts as an effect.
 
fiction isnt real. that's the difference. whilst fiction like everything else in a culture can actively reflect the beliefs, traditions and morals of those people it can never show us a direct cause it acts as an effect.
The only thing to differentiate history from fiction is trust. If you don't trust a historical account, it is as valuable as fiction. And personally, I find putting trust in non-blood related authority figures impossible. The information they've enforced on me since my birth has significantly worsened my life.
 
You can compare info about certain people or events by using different sources, of course if these sources exist in the first place.
 
People often confuse the terms belief and knowledge without realizing it
 
People often confuse the terms belief and knowledge without realizing it
@IWWorkER has made me realize that there is only one true certainty, which I never thought about before. So the word knowledge is basically useless. But I will never accept knowledge being a justifiable belief either as the lines between knowledge and belief are too blurry in such a definition.
 
The only thing to differentiate history from fiction is trust. If you don't trust a historical account, it is as valuable as fiction. And personally, I find putting trust in non-blood related authority figures impossible. The information they've enforced on me since my birth has significantly worsened my life.
i mean that's not a bad thing? the only difference between a credible scientific paper and a witch doctor is trust that the scientist went through the necessary procedures to atleast try to make a credible experiment and we rely on non-blood related authorities unless your amish and live off the grid your military, healthcare and more arent going to be direct relatives.
why should history be held to a standard no other form study is?
 
i mean that's not a bad thing? the only difference between a credible scientific paper and a witch doctor is trust that the scientist went through the necessary procedures to atleast try to make a credible experiment and we rely on non-blood related authorities unless your amish and live off the grid your military, healthcare and more arent going to be direct relatives.
why should history be held to a standard no other form study is?
I do hold the other forms of study to the same standard. Mom is a doctor. Did mainstream health practices on me my whole life. Any time I'd question it she'd appeal to her authority. Completely ruined my life with antibiotics. I believe the off the gird lifestyle to be ideal (if you're not socially isolated).
 
But I will never accept knowledge being a justifiable belief either as the lines between knowledge and belief are too blurry in such a definition.
I understand why you wouldn't want to call something knowledge if you don’t have full certainty of it, but we lack of better words.

I mean, if my father tells me he went to the beach yesterday, I'm not going to call it an hypothesis, I will just say I know he went there, even if, you are right, I should say I believe he did so.

As for beliefs, not all are equal. If my grandfather told me he worked for the CIA, I would have no other evidence than his words, but if he tells me he served in the french army, I have a lot more evidence than his words. I have his military papers, of which the government can approve the authenticity, I have pictures of him in the army, and there is his Légion d'honneur hanging on the wall right next to me as I am writing this.

You could argue all of this evidence was fabricated to tell a false narrative, I don't deny it, but it seems unlikely, so might belief of my grandfather serving in the french army is not irrational, but back by evidence, even if not perfect.
 
I understand why you wouldn't want to call something knowledge if you don’t have full certainty of it, but we lack of better words.

I mean, if my father tells me he went to the beach yesterday, I'm not going to call it an hypothesis, I will just say I know he went there, even if, you are right, I should say I believe he did so.

As for beliefs, not all are equal. If my grandfather told me he worked for the CIA, I would have no other evidence than his words, but if he tells me he served in the french army, I have a lot more evidence than his words. I have his military papers, of which the government can approve the authenticity, I have pictures of him in the army, and there is his Légion d'honneur hanging on the wall right next to me as I am writing this.

You could argue all of this evidence was fabricated to tell a false narrative, I don't deny it, but it seems unlikely, so might belief of my grandfather serving in the french army is not irrational, but back by evidence, even if not perfect.
You could use the word knowledge in place of justified beliefs for simplicity reasons, but I feel like concepts need to be binary, so the concept of knowledge becomes meaningless. And yeah, I never did say that you should never act on belief, just that a lot of people present beliefs as facts.
 

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