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Blackpill A Blackpill Order of Monkcels - Should we create one?

The black pill has nothing to do with nihilism or having a defeatist attitude
Agreed 100%

The black pill, simply put, is the pure, unfiltered, unadulterated, fundamental, and indivisible truth about some thing.

It's the truth, stripped of all baggage such as emotion, ideology, and, as much as possible, bias
I agree with the spirit of this. No baggage, no affiliation, no bias, no bullshit. Yes, that is fine with me

There is only one snag. There is no truth. No one knows the truth (except maybe God for those who believe; I don't)

Worse, the idea that we should base our judgements on "the truth" originated in the same circles that eventually gave rise to feminism, cucked welfare states and the like.

"The truth" has always been a manipulative stick with which to bludgeon whatever people the left-wing bullshitters want to off at a particular time. Look at CoviD-19. "the truth" was used to shut up the skeptics and justify shutting down the whole economy just because they wanted to screw Trump. With Global Warming, it is the same. Long before that, Russian Bolsheviks put millions in Gulags in the name of "the truth"

This is a real problem. We are tempted to use that word, "the truth", but when we try to establish what it might be, we run into completely intractable problems. My opinion is that it is better to just abandon the idea and again base your judgements on what people used before "the truth" started to be shoved down everyone's throat, trust. The question is not "what is true?" but "who do you trust?" That question has not been adequately answered within the incel community. Who do we trust? No one? Then there is nothing we can say and there is no Blackpill. So the question remains: who do we trust? On the testimony of whom can we build what we call the blackpill?
 
There is only one snag. There is no truth. No one knows the truth (except maybe God for those who believe; I don't)
Well I can say that philosophers agree. Ludwig Wittgenstein convinced everyone in the 1940s that the quest for truth is a wild goose chase. Like Truecel chasing a super Stacy and it's never going to happen!

Before that, Kant had reached pretty much the same conclusion. Of course you can still find philosophers who have "theories of truth". BUT if you look at what they say they, use the word "truth" for something they don't even believe in.
 
There is only one snag. There is no truth. No one knows the truth (except maybe God for those who believe; I don't)
It's, "the truth about x," not, "the truth." In that respect you could say that the black pill is a subset of "the truth" (whatever that may be).

Worse, the idea that we should base our judgements on "the truth" originated in the same circles that eventually gave rise to feminism, cucked welfare states and the like.
That's politicizing the truth. Narrative is not truth.

"The truth" has always been a manipulative stick with which to bludgeon whatever people the left-wing bullshitters want to off at a particular time. Look at CoviD-19. "the truth" was used to shut up the skeptics and justify shutting down the whole economy just because they wanted to screw Trump. With Global Warming, it is the same. Long before that, Russian Bolsheviks put millions in Gulags in the name of "the truth"
See above.

This is a real problem. We are tempted to use that word, "the truth", but when we try to establish what it might be, we run into completely intractable problems.
What do you mean by truth? I'm generally talking about things that are immutable, like empirical facts. Black pills are not, then, subjective interpretations of those facts, but the logical deductions resulting from those facts.

My opinion is that it is better to just abandon the idea and again base your judgements on what people used before "the truth" started to be shoved down everyone's throat, trust. The question is not "what is true?" but "who do you trust?" That question has not been adequately answered within the incel community. Who do we trust? No one? Then there is nothing we can say and there is no Blackpill. So the question remains: who do we trust? On the testimony of whom can we build what we call the blackpill?
The emphasis on trust vs truth changes the paradigm from one that's more towards the objective to one away from it towards the subjective. The underlying problem you just previously mentioned remains present, that is, you don't know who to trust (you don't know what is the truth).

Here's a primer on truth.

 
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"The truth" has always been a manipulative stick with which to bludgeon whatever people the left-wing bullshitters want to off at a particular time. Look at CoviD-19. "the truth" was used to shut up the skeptics and justify shutting down the whole economy just because they wanted to screw Trump. With Global Warming, it is the same. Long before that, Russian Bolsheviks put millions in Gulags in the name of "the truth"

I definitely agree with this paragraph. I don't know much about philosophy and all the formal arguments or vocabulary but it's so damn obvious the American leftist and media decide what reality is by using the word "Truth". Now they are doing it here in India too with Greta Thunberg crap. IMO this is how they come up with all this "women are superior to men" lore using words like "Science" or "Truth" around everything they want to push. Any incel should be against this in my opinion cause it is what has led to women being worshiped like gods thus super inflating their egos and pride etc etc.
 
Yeah, it was a bit ironic. I think OP's definition of the blackpill has too much religious connotation.
I agree. But Normies have "normie religion" e.g. watching football with their big families/girlfriends/wives, or in curryfolk case; they do huge cultural programs, dance and smile and yell for hours at a time. It's like a religion for them with all these writen and unspoken rules of behavior. So what's wrong with exploring our own?
 
If you believe this, you have been fooled. This comes from Stanford. Do you trust Stanford?

It's, "the truth about x," not, "the truth." In that respect you could say that the black pill is a subset of "the truth" (whatever that may be).
this is indeed what I am talking about: "the truth about x,"

That's politicizing the truth. Narrative is not truth.
The truth has always been political. It has always been used to manipulate ppl.

What do you mean by truth? I'm generally talking about things that are immutable, like empirical facts.
There are no Immutable facts. There are only testimonies about those facts (including that of our senses). No single testimony is completely trustworthy but some are more so than others. We will never know the facts. That is just impossible.

The emphasis on trust vs truth changes the paradigm from one that's more towards the objective to one away from it towards the subjective.
It does not change anything because trust has always been there and it is what people base their judgements on in practice because there is nothing else. You always trust people although you may not be aware of it. Whenever you buy something in a shop, you trust the shopkeeper, you trust the brand of the product. You do not know what you are buying.
 
There are no Immutable facts. There are only testimonies about those facts (including that of our senses). No single testimony is completely trustworthy but some are more so than others. We will never know the facts. That is just impossible.
Yes! This is what Kant and Wittgenstein have made absolutely clear.
 
There are already suggestions from norman media that inceldom is cult like. This will make our collective image even less acceptable to soyciety at large.
Religion is degen. IMO. If we can't be free from our incel bodies, at least be free in our minds.
 
There are already suggestions from norman media that inceldom is cult like. This will make our collective image even less acceptable to soyciety at large.
We have nothing to loose. Our reputation is already as low as it can be.

Religion is degen. IMO. If we can't be free from our incel bodies, at least be free in our minds.
You think religion is degenerate bc you see what Christianity has become. Yes, that is degenerate.

But if you look at history farther back (and not only in Europe), you will see that religion is the only real way to be "free in our minds". Christianity freed us from idolatry, which was the Bullshit of those times. And Buddhism, Jainism and Advaita Vedanta have done something equivalent in India and the Far East. None of these work anymore as such but we can build something along the same lines, adapted to our times.

Today, we are not "free in our minds" because we have not been able to fully disentangle ourselves from the normie religion that the media and school system are pushing on us. To perform this disentanglement, we need a method and cooperation btw individuals. No one is strong enough on his own.
 
Why not try to construct one?
As I said, it's unnecessary. You are attempting to make insular what permeates all facets of life.

A meme acts as a way to move cultural ideas or practices. What's wrong with giving it some structure?
Memes are organic and move on their own. Forcing structure upon it turns it into a religion or ideology. It takes an open plane and builds walls. By constructing such a thing, you are limiting and controlling the very thing you are arguing that moves cultural ideas and practice forward.

I think there is some positivity in progressing but keeping the same foundation. Besides, the entire point of having a community is to vent together or cope together, if there is a structure given to it, maybe it helps? No reason to run from the idea.
There already is some limited structure: online forums. The idea of creating some order adds more concentric inner circles that serve no real function other than being exclusionary.

K9Otaku said members could discuss the idea or structure of the order itself, I take that to mean anyone. Doesn't change anything else. One can go and come as they please. If the black pill is mislabeled or misunderstood, perhaps there are ways to make it understood better. If it isn't a cope for you, they it can be ignored.
If anyone can discuss and build the structure and come and go as they please, then there is no form or foundation to it and the entire exercise is pointless. Online spaces allow for exactly what you're speaking of: anyone can give their input, and they can come and go as they please.
If you believe this, you have been fooled. This comes from Stanford. Do you trust Stanford?
You're asking a strange question. What are you really asking me here? Are you asking me if I trust the institution of universities to give me expert information? Are you asking me if I trust Stanford in particular? If so, trust them with what, the truth? If so, about what? Anything, or just the truth? Or are you asking more generally if I trust the idea of expert knowledge that's reviewed by other experts? Is it more abstract than that i.e., are you asking me if I trust expertise?

The truth has always been political. It has always been used to manipulate ppl.
The truth about what has always been used to manipulate people? Implicit in that statement is the affirmation that there is some truth--that is being misused.

There are no Immutable facts. There are only testimonies about those facts (including that of our senses). No single testimony is completely trustworthy but some are more so than others. We will never know the facts. That is just impossible.
This is an untenable proposition. Our own surroundings in the physical world are full of immutable facts, independent of testimony. Machines that give readings is a simple example. Unless you're trying to tell me that the testimonies of each and every builder of the machines cannot be trusted, at which point we've reached sn absurdity.

It does not change anything because trust has always been there and it is what people base their judgements on in practice because there is nothing else. You always trust people although you may not be aware of it. Whenever you buy something in a shop, you trust the shopkeeper, you trust the brand of the product. You do not know what you are buying.
The kind of trust you're referring to (e.g., trusting that the cashier gives you the correct change, but checking anyway in case of an honest mistake) is fiduciary trust. This is entirely separate from truth and exists much lower in most metaphysics. Trust can be gained and lost, but mass will always have gravity.

You're basing your ontology on a sand dune that can easily be shifting with the wind. I base mine on something like a platonic solid. As such, we're operating from two completely different places that can't see eye to eye.
 
Do it. Find out and let us know how it goes.
I will try of course. Other than gaming, working to survive and doing our solo masturbations, there is is not much else. All we are doing is posting on a forum regardless and that can just continue in a Monkcel black pill “order”.
 
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This comes from Stanford. Do you trust Stanford?
You're asking a strange question.
The reason you find this question strange is because you live in the strange world of Metaphysics. Otherwise, it is a very straightforward question.

Standford is like the Vatican of normie religion. It supports everything we stand against as Incels. In my book, this makes them a-priori untrustworthy on other matters as well. This is the way it works in criminal justice, for example. If a witness has a criminal record, it will make him less trustworthy than someone who hasn't.

I do trust certain philosophers, like Wittgenstein or Kant. But I don't trust philosophy in general. In particular, I do not trust Edward N. Zalta (the editor of SEP) and I do not trust Michael Glanzberg (the author of the "Truth" article you linked) Both are leftists of the worst kind, supporting feminism, transgender crap and all the rest. As a result, I do not trust them regarding what they say about the philosophical understanding of Truth. Indeed, while reading the article, I see that they do not mention Kant at all, although the famous ("we cannot know things in themselves (ding an sich)") is obviously an attack on Truth. Wittgenstein, for his part is mentioned only in relation to the Tractatus, which he repudiated in his later philosophy. The Philosophical Investigations, which is considered one of the major philosophical works of the XXth century, is not mentioned at all although it the most radical rejection of the philosophical idea of truth that you can find. Bottom line: this is a disingenuous presentation of the spectrum of philosophical positions about truth. To be honest, it should be divided in 2 parts: those who promote the idea of Truth, those who reject it. Instead, it speaks only of the first category.

So I now have 2 reasons not to trust them: 1) they associate with positions that I find abhorrent (feminism, etc.) 2) they are disingenuous pseudo-experts who present their own discipline in a biased way.

Finding 1. had prepared me to 2. When I read the article, I discovered finding 2. which was a confirmation of finding 1) and told me that my initial mistrust was well founded.

Finding 2. is increasingly applicable to all so-called "experts". Normie religion, because it is a religion, trumps honest expertise and forces "experts" to toe the line. As a result, experts are increasingly untrustworthy. However, even when they were, it was not because they were "telling the truth" (nobody will ever know if that was the case), but because they had established a track record of credibility. How exactly they did that is another matter that would be too long to discuss here.

As a result, I have answered all your questions in a manner that should normally make anyone rethink his reliance on "Truth"

The truth about what has always been used to manipulate people? Implicit in that statement is the affirmation that there is some truth--that is being misused.
No, this is not implicit at all. What I am saying is that the concept of "Truth" is a form of superstition, like unicorns or lucky charms. It doesn't exist. Like these, it is used to manipulate people.

This is an untenable proposition. Our own surroundings in the physical world are full of immutable facts,
Maybe but we will never know anything about these facts. This is what Kant means with his "we cannot know things in themselves (ding an sich)". The "things" or the "facts" are forever inaccessible to us directly. We only have testimonies. Testimonies of our sense or Testimonies of other people. The Testimonies of our senses are not particularly reliable (hallucinations, unconscious bias, etc.) Instruments, for their part, may be faulty; they may have been manufactured by biased or incompetent people, etc. They are also give us mere testimonies. That is why we say: "I cannot believe my eyes" when we are looking at a voltmeter, say, that is giving us a reading that we do not expect. This point of view is what we call today the "Brain in a Vat" argument, which is essentially a reformulation of Berkley's philosophy.

The fact that I need to remind you of all this, although it is quite well known, means that you have a naive understanding of philosophy and/or that you have been manipulated by unscrupulous philosophers (like those of SEP). Philosophy is dangerous when it is understood superficially. This is how generations of young people have been lead to follow Stalin and other murderers in their horrendous real-life experiments.

You're basing your ontology on a sand dune that can easily be shifting with the wind. I base mine on something like a platonic solid.
Plato was the biggest sand-dune builder of all times. There are no Platonic solids in nature no more than there is any Platonic love. Don't be fooled.
 
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The reason you find this question strange is because you live in the strange world of Metaphysics. Otherwise, it is a very straightforward question.
I live in many worlds, tbh. That's why I asked all of those questions.

Standford is like the Vatican of normie religion.
I reject this premise. First, you have to define what "normie religion" is. Are you referring to science, or simply the way in which popular culture views the establishment intellectuals as the authority on knowledge? I'm going to assume that you're just referring to them as the secular replacement for some authority that would need to exist as a general placeholder to fulfil that same role in society. Second, you're arguing against the source by characterizing it as some kind of religion (which comes with its attendant dogmas, naturally), but you're positing a kind of religion of your own in place of it. Not calling you a hypocrite, but you have to accept the inconsistency there.

It supports everything we stand against as Incels.
What is it that we stand for? Who is we, precisely? Incels are not a monolithic group. We, as individuals, come from every demographic group, every creed, every philosophy, every socio-economic strata. There is everyone here from broke NEETs who LDAR all day to millionaires to atheists and devout religious people.

In my book, this makes them a-priori untrustworthy on other matters as well. This is the way it works in criminal justice, for example. If a witness has a criminal record, it will make him less trustworthy than someone who hasn't.
Is it the institution of universities you mistrust or this specific organization? I'm going to assume the former, since you characterized Stanford as a kind of "Vatican."

I do trust certain philosophers, like Wittgenstein or Kant. But I don't trust philosophy in general.
Your approach is misguided. You're coming at this from the wrong angle. A philosopher, or philosophy itself, is not something you "trust." You observe the reasoning and the arguments. Logic doesn't need to be trusted, it simply needs to be consistent, followed and understood. The mouthpiece is generally irrelevant (except when you're writing a paper and need to reference an idea).

In particular, I do not trust Edward N. Zalta (the editor of SEP) and I do not trust Michael Glanzberg (the author of the "Truth" article you linked) Both are leftists of the worst kind, supporting feminism, transgender crap and all the rest. As a result, I do not trust them regarding what they say about the philosophical understanding of Truth.
As I just said, if what they say is valid and sound, their ideological baggage is irrelevant. If a homeless man gives you the same financial advice as the successful multimillionaire, you will reject it because of the source? If you do, that's not very wise. Take things on their own merits.

Indeed, while reading the article, I see that they do not mention Kant at all, although the famous ("we cannot know things in themselves (ding an sich)") is obviously an attack on Truth.
Kant's nuomena argues that we cannot fully know the thing in itself. This is valid, but from this you cannot make the inference and logically deny the truth of the thing in question, or that the truth of it exists in the first place, merely because of the gap between it and our perception of it. Yes, the best we can hope for is a close, best approximation, but this natural limitation does not justify disposing the concept of truth altogether in favor of trust, which is by far flimsier. If truth is limited by perception (because our biology won't allow us to cross the subjective-objective chasm), then trust is limited even further by the previous fact as well as an empirical requirement of the history of the object to which trust is assigned, which itself can be changed in the future, meaning that it's less stable (read: reliable) than truth.

Wittgenstein, for his part is mentioned only in relation to the Tractatus, which he repudiated in his later philosophy. The Philosophical Investigations, which is considered one of the major philosophical works of the XXth century, is not mentioned at all although it the most radical rejection of the philosophical idea of truth that you can find.
Wittgenstein himself was a philosopher of language and he argued that mystical truths cannot be meaningfully expressed in language. This is probably where you hang-up with truth is. You seem to think that because some kind of absolute truth cannot meaningfully be expressed in language, as Wittgenstein claims, then "truth" itself is meaningless and we should discard it. This is the most tragic case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, if I've ever seen one.

Bottom line: this is a disingenuous presentation of the spectrum of philosophical positions about truth. To be honest, it should be divided in 2 parts: those who promote the idea of Truth, those who reject it. Instead, it speaks only of the first category.
The notion of "accepting truth" vs "rejecting truth" is absurd. How are you even arguing this? The important thing in the linked entry are theories of truth. Philosophical Investigations didn't introduce a new theory, it commented on the difference between "truth" and "truthfulness" as it pertains to its language representation in propositional calculus. He didn't reject truth.

So I now have 2 reasons not to trust them: 1) they associate with positions that I find abhorrent (feminism, etc.)
The emotional objection is noted. But do yourself a favor and look for traces of these positions in the referenced section.

2) they are disingenuous pseudo-experts who present their own discipline in a biased way.
This is personal evaluation aka it's just, like, your opinion, man. Only an expert can call another a pseudo-expert.

Finding 1. had prepared me to 2. When I read the article, I discovered finding 2. which was a confirmation of finding 1) and told me that my initial mistrust was well founded.
Well, that's on you. Like I said, take things on their own merits.
Finding 2. is increasingly applicable to all so-called "experts". Normie religion, because it is a religion, trumps honest expertise and forces "experts" to toe the line.
What is this? Who determines what's "honest expertise"? Whoever you trust? You're suggesting that you're relying an awful lot on feelings and subjectivity here.

As a result, experts are increasingly untrustworthy. However, even when they were, it was not because they were "telling the truth" (nobody will ever know if that was the case), but because they had established a track record of credibility. How exactly they did that is another matter that would be too long to discuss here.
Feel free to share your opinions, so long as you can defend them.

As a result, I have answered all your questions in a manner that should normally make anyone rethink his reliance on "Truth"
No, sorry. What you've done is establish your distrust of one particular source, because of the affiliations that source with ideas you don't subscribe to. That's fine, but then you've asserted that these affiliations make them pseudo-experts. That doesn't necessarily follow.

No, this is not implicit at all. What I am saying is that the concept of "Truth" is a form of superstition, like unicorns or lucky charms. It doesn't exist. Like these, it is used to manipulate people.
This is the point I was talking about earlier when I said we can't see eye to eye. When we get down to brass tacks you're saying something that, to me, is categorically and patently absurd.

Maybe but we will never know anything about these facts. This is what Kant means with his "we cannot know things in themselves (ding an sich)". The "things" or the "facts" are forever inaccessible to us directly. We only have testimonies. Testimonies of our sense or Testimonies of other people. The Testimonies of our senses are not particularly reliable (hallucinations, unconscious bias, etc.)
I addressed this in parts earlier when I mentioned his nuomena. We can obtain close best approximations that are independent from us (readings on the meters will be the same, regardless of whom with whatever worldview observes the meter).

Instruments, for their part, may be faulty; they may have been manufactured by biased or incompetent people, etc. They are also give us mere testimonies.
See, I expected you to go here. The problem with this argument (and it's an easy one to deal with) is that you can have two different people who are verifiably competent with polar opposite viewpoints, trustworthiness, whatever, who can build the exact same instrument, which can be then checked by a third party. The "testimony" of the device, then, can not be argued against as a source of fact(s) about the thing(s) it measures from which truth(s) can be derived.

That is why we say: "I cannot believe my eyes" when we are looking at a voltmeter, say, that is giving us a reading that we do not expect. This point of view is what we call today the "Brain in a Vat" argument, which is essentially a reformulation of Berkley's philosophy.
Berkley should have conversed more with scientists, builders, and engineers.

The fact that I need to remind you of all this, although it is quite well known, means that you have a naive understanding of philosophy and/or that you have been manipulated by unscrupulous philosophers (like those of SEP). Philosophy is dangerous when it is understood superficially. This is how generations of young people have been lead to follow Stalin and other murderers in their horrendous real-life experiments.
The only dangerous thing here is to presuppose another's understanding (or lack thereof) of philosophy.

Plato was the biggest sand-dune builder of all times. There are no Platonic solids in nature no more than there is any Platonic love. Don't be fooled.
This is my point. There exist truths that are independent of nature. Many of these truths can be obtained through the scientific method and are classified as empirical facts. Not all facts are empirical (it is a fact that I prefer chocolate over vanilla, but you can't measure that--you ask me for that fact) and not all truths can be obtained by facts e.g. mathematical truths.
 
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I live in many worlds, tbh. That's why I asked all of those questions.

I reject this premise. First, you have to define what "normie religion" is. Are you referring to science, or simply the way in which popular culture views the establishment intellectuals as the authority on knowledge? I'm going to assume that you're just referring to them as the secular replacement for some authority that would need to exist as a general placeholder to fulfil that same role in society. Second, you're arguing against the source by characterizing it as some kind of religion (which comes with its attendant dogmas, naturally), but you're positing a kind of religion of your own in place of it. Not calling you a hypocrite, but you have to accept the inconsistency there.

What is it that we stand for? Who is we, precisely? Incels are not a monolithic group. We, as individuals, come from every demographic group, every creed, every philosophy, every socio-economic strata. There is everyone here from broke NEETs who LDAR all day to millionaires to atheists and devout religious people.

Is it the institution of universities you mistrust or this specific organization? I'm going to assume the former, since you characterized Stanford as a kind of "Vatican."

Your approach is misguided. You're coming at this from the wrong angle. A philosopher, or philosophy itself, is not something you "trust." You observe the reasoning and the arguments. Logic doesn't need to be trusted, it simply needs to be consistent, followed and understood. The mouthpiece is generally irrelevant (except when you're writing a paper and need to reference an idea).

As I just said, if what they say is valid and sound, their ideological baggage is irrelevant. If a homeless man gives you the same financial advice as the successful multimillionaire, you will reject it because of the source? If you do, that's not very wise. Take things on their own merits.

Kant's nuomena argues that we cannot fully know the thing in itself. This is valid, but from this you cannot make the inference and logically deny the truth of the thing in question, or that the truth of it exists in the first place, merely because of the gap between it and our perception of it. Yes, the best we can hope for is a close, best approximation, but this natural limitation does not justify disposing the concept of truth altogether in favor of trust, which is by far flimsier. If truth is limited by perception (because our biology won't allow us to cross the subjective-objective chasm), then trust is limited even further by the previous fact as well as an empirical requirement of the history of the object to which trust is assigned, which itself can be changed in the future, meaning that it's less stable (read: reliable) than truth.

Wittgenstein himself was a philosopher of language and he argued that mystical truths cannot be meaningfully expressed in language. This is probably where you hang-up with truth is. You seem to think that because some kind of absolute truth cannot meaningfully be expressed in language, as Wittgenstein claims, then "truth" itself is meaningless and we should discard it. This is the most tragic case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, if I've ever seen one.

The notion of "accepting truth" vs "rejecting truth" is absurd. How are you even arguing this? The important thing in the linked entry are theories of truth. Philosophical Investigations didn't introduce a new theory, it commented on the difference between "truth" and "truthfulness" as it pertains to its language representation in propositional calculus. He didn't reject truth.

The emotional objection is noted. But do yourself a favor and look for traces of these positions in the referenced section.

This is personal evaluation aka it's just, like, your opinion, man. Only an expert can call another a pseudo-expert.

Well, that's on you. Like I said, take things on their own merits.

What is this? Who determines what's "honest expertise"? Whoever you trust? You're suggesting that you're relying an awful lot on feelings and subjectivity here.

Feel free to share your opinions, so long as you can defend them.

No, sorry. What you've done is establish your distrust of one particular source, because of the affiliations that source with ideas you don't subscribe to. That's fine, but then you've asserted that these affiliations make them pseudo-experts. That doesn't necessarily follow.

This is the point I was talking about earlier when I said we can't see eye to eye. When we get down to brass tacks you're saying something that, to me, is categorically and patently absurd.

I addressed this in parts earlier when I mentioned his nuomena. We can obtain close best approximations that are independent from us (readings on the meters will be the same, regardless of whom with whatever worldview observes the meter).

See, I expected you to go here. The problem with this argument (and it's an easy one to deal with) is that you can have two different people who are verifiably competent with polar opposite viewpoints, trustworthiness, whatever, who can build the exact same instrument, which can be then checked by a third party. The "testimony" of the device, then, can not be argued against as a source of fact(s) about the thing(s) it measures from which truth(s) can be derived.

Berkley should have conversed more with scientists, builders, and engineers.

The only dangerous thing here is to presuppose another's understanding (or lack thereof) of philosophy.

This is my point. There exist truths that are independent of nature. Many of these truths can be obtained through the scientific method and are classified as empirical facts. Not all facts are empirical (it is a fact that I prefer chocolate over vanilla, but you can't measure that--you ask me for that fact) and not all truths can be obtained by facts e.g. mathematical truths.
You argue like a religious man. You are impervious to argument because they are overridden by your faith.

There is a name for your religion. It is called Gnosticism. Gnostics have always been cucks.
 
Memes are organic and move on their own.
Memes are masturbatory. If they are not connected to something more structured than they are, they end up being mere Internet flotsam.

I do not trust Edward N. Zalta (the editor of SEP)
YeaH even in Academia, Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy has a pretty bad reputation Sir. My professors would say that if we quoted anything from them our grades would be penalized cause SEP always addresses only like one half of every question. Zalta in particular is a complete whore whose in cahoots with all these gender studies departments and critical theory types from everywhere. Of course he is a rabid feminist and LGBTQ advocate. These are not friendlies! They contribute to Inceldom being less liked I feel.
 
You argue like a religious man. You are impervious to argument because they are overridden by your faith.

There is a name for your religion. It is called Gnosticism. Gnostics have always been cucks.
WTF is this? Is this your way of throwing a tantrum? And here I thought, "finally, someone that is mature in their discourse."

I don't have any religion. You slapping the label of "Gnosticism" on me to help you categorize and compartmentalize me (incorrectly, btw) is just one big fucking cope to get out of defending your arguments and viewpoints. I can be petty, too. It's really fucking easy. What's not easy is having your beliefs confronted and challenged. It made you uncomfortable to the point where you ignored everything I said. Bravo. Well argued. You're a real 21st century philosopher, buddy boyo.

You haven't even given a definition of the black pill, which should be priority #1 in this fantastical quest of yours to create--in your words--a "quasi-religion." But I guess it's much easier to call somebody whom you can't respond to in argument with a cuck. You want to throw out "truth" as a concept when it's a central tenet of the black pill and then you turn right around and tell me that I'm "impervious to argument because of faith." This just turned into a comedy.

JUST

FUCKING

LOL

Memes are masturbatory. If they are not connected to something more structured than they are, they end up being mere Internet flotsam.
OK, but I don't see why or how that makes it a problem for us to deal with. Online forums already serve the functions of the order in the ways in which you described in the previous quote. If you feel that certain memes or cultural ideas need shepherding in some direction or protection and preservation, then feel free, but the black pill doesn't need that. It just is. It doesn't need to be promulgated by some kind of order.

YeaH even in Academia, Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy has a pretty bad reputation Sir. My professors would say that if we quoted anything from them our grades would be penalized cause SEP always addresses only like one half of every question. Zalta in particular is a complete whore whose in cahoots with all these gender studies departments and critical theory types from everywhere. Of course he is a rabid feminist and LGBTQ advocate. These are not friendlies! They contribute to Inceldom being less liked I feel.
Well, whatever. Use a different encyclopedia. Hell, go straight to the source material. It doesn't really matter at the end of day, as long as the points are valid.
 
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WTF is this? Is this your way of throwing a tantrum? And here I thought, "finally, someone that is mature in their discourse."
Okay, Okay. Let us argue. But not here. This thread is for ppl who are interested in the idea of a Monkcel order (which you obviously are not)

Is it ok if we do this in a separate thread? I can create it if you want and we can pick up where we left off.
 
Okay, Okay. Let us argue. But not here. This thread is for ppl who are interested in the idea of a Monkcel order (which you obviously are not)

Is it ok if we do this in a separate thread? I can create it if you want and we can pick up where we left off.
It doesn't matter to me, really. Create a new thread, if you think our discussion will derail this topic too far.
 
It doesn't matter to me, really. Create a new thread, if you think our discussion will derail this topic too far.
Ok. One second

Done:

I will post my answer to your last post on the new thread.
 
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In my opinion this should be on a more scientific basis than a religious one. The religious undertone is more likely to turn people off. The best way is through facts and logic and simply looking at the way things are.
 
In my opinion this should be on a more scientific basis than a religious one. The religious undertone is more likely to turn people off. The best way is through facts and logic and simply looking at the way things are.
You can't do that. Truth is a myth. Science has turned into a myth.

If you go in that direction, you are basically perpetuating the trend of thought that led to our current misery.

The myth of truth/science lead to Academia having a monopoly on legitimate discourse. Results: Feminism, LGBTQ and the rest.

In the past, only religious movements have proved able to resist foids' urges. "Science" never was.

I am not advocating for anything supernatural, just for a religious approach, a religious style. If people are being turned off, it means they are not as clear-thinking as they assume. The real blacklpill is about understanding all this. Sadly, few people are genuinely blackpilled today, even among incels. Insta-blackpill is yet another myth. There are lots of deep and Hi-IQ things to grasp in order to be fully blackpilled. That does not come easy

For a more detailed explanation, look at this thread:
 
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You can't do that. Truth is a myth. Science has turned into a myth.

If you go in that direction, you are basically perpetuating the trend of thought that led to our current misery.

The myth of truth/science lead to Academia having a monopoly on legitimate discourse. Results: Feminism, LGBTQ and the rest.

In the past, only religious movements have proved able to resist foids' urges. "Science" never was.

I am not advocating for anything supernatural, just for a religious approach, a religious style. If people are being turned off, it means they are not as clear-thinking as they assume. The real blacklpill is about understanding all this. Sadly, few people are genuinely blackpilled today, even among incels. Insta-blackpill is yet another myth. There are lots of deep and Hi-IQ things to grasp in order to be fully blackpilled. That does not come easy

For a more detailed explanation, look at this thread:

Seems odd to hear at first, but on second glance, this makes a lot of sense.
 

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