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Discussion We're Not Unhappy Because We're Incel, We are Unhappy Because We're Ugly

MENSA_IQcel

MENSA_IQcel

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The two are very strongly correlated so it is very easy to confuse the cause of your unhappiness, but I genuinely believe that we're unhappy because we're ugly, not because we're incel. If magically everything changed and we lived in a reverse-world where men were the hypergamus ones and ugly incels could fuck any women just like how any women can fuck Chad, we'd be just as unhappy because we are ugly. For this thread, I will reference a lot of fictional characters. The fact that these characters are fictional is irrelevant, all that matters is our percieved reaction to them, and whether we envy, pity, or despise them as that will reveal our true desires and inner psychology.

To reference literature, Brave New World is a perfect example of what I am speaking of. In the book Brave New World, Bernard is a qausi-deformed technocrat who's amongst a sea of perfectually beautiful genetically engineered people. His test-tube when he was created in the artificial laboratory screwed up and alcohol got in his test-tube. Because of this Bernards face is slightly imperfect, but relative to the perfect people around him he stands out like a sore thumb. Bernard is unattractive and ugly but still gets lots of sex because in the Brave New World universe humans are designed to be very sexual and non-discriminatory (sex is treated like hanging out with someone, so as long as Bernard could make a few friends he could get sex, although certain Chad characters like Hemholtz could get it more easily). Bernard has casual sex with his friend Lelina all the time, and has even more casual sex with his co-worker friends in their drug infused orgy meetings. Down below is Bernard and Lelina


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Bernard is still very unhappy. Bernard KNOWS HES UGLY. If you are noticeably ugly, sex won't make you happy. You'll always know you are inferior just by your very nature. Looks are the truest marker of superiority. No matter how rich you are, how smart you are, how much sex you can status-max yourself into getting, you'll still be unhappy because what really matters is your appearance. Rich people pay MILLIONS OF DOLLARS to pay for butlers and servants and hotel staff to treat them with great respect, if you're attractive, people treat you with that respect anyways. Unless you have good looks, every single social interaction will be a battle to prove your worth "YES IM UGLY BUT BUT IM SMART BUT IM RICH BUT IM TALANTED". You look pathetic. Nothing will compensate for looks.

1589060180343
1589060190268


Take another example, George Costanza from Seinfeld. George has sex with Stacies all the time in that show, sure it's in the 90s, and sure it's still very unrealistic, but notice how you'll never really envy George. He's seen as a loser despite making good money working for the Yankees, having multiple Stacy girlfriends, and being friends with a famous comedian. Why? The answer is obvious: George is short, ugly, and balding. Objectively speaking, George is highly successful in every way except for his physique, yet he's still laughed at as a stereotypical loser. You don't envy George, you pity him for being pathetic. This is the life of an ugly man, you will exist to be pitied or mocked and your life will be riddled with unhappiness even if you do manage to sleep with Stacies. That won't make you happy, you'll always be unhappy for being ugly.

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This is why unattractive women are still very unhappy. Even if they can be pumped and dumped by Chad, that doesn't satisfy them. Often they scapegoat their unhappiness on not being able to achieve a long-term-relationship with Chad. I think this is a fallacy. I bet even if unattractive women could get in a long term relationship with Chad they'd still be unhappy. They'd be unhappy because they're ugly, they are objectively inferior in the most important regard to their attractive counterparts. No matter how well you are treated by the physical world, no matter how perfect your life seems in other regards, if you are unattractive you'll always have a sense of inferiority.

To look at my point from the reverse side. You know according to Batman lore, Bruce Wayne was a virgin well into his 20s? And it makes sense too, he went to an all-boys private highschool, was heavily guarded by staff growing up so he couldn't really go out and party. He spent his early to mid 20s at a martial arts training camp in Asia with a bunch of men. Earliest he would have lost his virginity is 28 when he came back to America. Bruce Wayne missed out on """"teen love"""" and even early 20s romance. Do you feel bad for Bruce Wayne? Do you envy him? Do you think he should "rope" for missing out these "milestones"? No, you probably don't think that. It's because Bruce Wayne is a tall attractive male so it doesn't matter if he was incel for the first 28 years of his life. Would you pity the guy below if you found out he was a KHHV until he was 28? He'll forget about that the moment he gets back to Gotham and connects with his social circle. Getting sex or not getting sex is a COPE because it's IN THE REALM OF POSSIBILITY for this condition to change, it's IN THE REALM OF IMPOSSIBILITY for you to ever become attractive. This is why saying your lack of sex is what causes your unhappiness is a COPE, it's your ugliness.

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TLDR - Lack of Sex Isn't What's Bothering You, It's Being Ugly AKA Objectively Genetically Inferior And Achieving Sex Won't Satisfy Your Insatisfaction.
 

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Even if we luck out and get a gf, the chances of that relationship lasting are astronomically low and we'd be back to being incels in no time.
Being gl gives you a sense of security, because you know even if your relationships fail or you get rejected once or twice, you'll eventually find something without needing to be extremely lucky to do so. Thus gl men worry less and they dont have a chip on their shoulder at all times like unattractive men have.
 
Even if we luck out and get a gf, the chances of that relationship lasting are astronomically low and we'd be back to being incels in no time.
Being gl gives you a sense of security, because you know even if your relationships fail or you get rejected once or twice, you'll eventually find something without needing to be extremely lucky to do so. Thus gl men worry less and they dont have a chip on their shoulder at all times like unattractive men have.

That too, but even if we got a loyal girl who would never leave us or had to worry about Chads. Being ugly is something that we'd never get over. It's like having an itch you can't scratch, it will be a blight on you forever.
 
Ugly=incel, at least if I had a gf I'd feel normal
 
Ugly=incel, at least if I had a gf I'd feel normal

Yes I established that in paragraph 1.

But if we could somehow control for the variables, and create an experiment with two different scenarios

1. An ugly guy who gets lots of sex

2. A very attractive guy who gets zero sex

We'd find the second guy to still be much happier than the first, since he's good looking and therefore superior and therefore knows he's better.
 
I'd take looking in the mirror and seeing an attractive person any day over being ugly and having sex.
I can just pay a hooker, but I'd still hate being ugly.

it's not just about sex at that point, it's about the way society treats you. You get can get a better job, make friends easier, and you wouldn't feel suicidal every time you see yourself in a picture. This is why looksmaxing/surgery is one of my top priorities right now
 
Hmm. Interestingly plausible. I most confess interest to the philosophical ties as well since I take interest in that. Can’t really ask an ugly guy with a girlfriend to confirm it since I've never met one irl :feelskek:
 
I don't really know what I want anymore tbqh
 
long and didnt read
probs based lol idk
 
It comes down to how one is being perceived and treated by others.

Tbh, if literally everyone treated me exactly like a Chad, then I would even be happy to look as I do.

In fact, before I consciously knew that I was ugly, I was okay with how I looked, and only once I understood the connection between being ugly and being treated like crap/ostracized/rejected did I start to suffer from my ugliness.

Functionally, I'm okay with myself.
Teeth are dark and crooked, but they work just fine.
Thin bones, totally fine. I'm very agile and a fast runner and I like that. I think having more bone mass would slow me down.
I only worry about these things because other people perceive me as weak and ugly because of them.

It's just that in reality nothing creates the same kind of respect that being a tallfag does, and nothing creates exactly the same halo/failo as the appearance of the face...

So yeah, ugliness is the bigger reason for unhappiness than inceldom, but only because one is being perceived and treated badly as a consequence of it.

If my appearance did not have such a strong influence on these things, then I would give my appearance very little attention.
 
I'm unhappy because i'm not good looking
 
incel and ugly can be used interchangeably, the only prerequisite to being incel is having poor genetics.
 
incel and ugly can be used interchangeably, the only prerequisite to being incel is having poor genetics.
That’s where things get arguable. What if a 4/10 dude managed to ascend? Is he still incel because he is of low attractiveness even though he managed to ascend?
 
I'd take looking in the mirror and seeing an attractive person any day over being ugly and having sex.
I can just pay a hooker, but I'd still hate being ugly.

it's not just about sex at that point, it's about the way society treats you. You get can get a better job, make friends easier, and you wouldn't feel suicidal every time you see yourself in a picture. This is why looksmaxing/surgery is one of my top priorities right now

Even if society treated you'd better, you'd still be insecure about your ugliness. That's why people with legit BBD are unhappy despite being treated well.

My post is the exact opposite of cope.
 
I have yet to understand why you make posts like these tbh
 
incel and ugly can be used interchangeably, the only prerequisite to being incel is having poor genetics.

I establish that in my post, I'm saying if we controlled for one factor we would find it's ugliness, not sexlessness, which is our problem.
It comes down to how one is being perceived and treated by others.

Tbh, if literally everyone treated me exactly like a Chad, then I would even be happy to look as I do.

In fact, before I consciously knew that I was ugly, I was okay with how I looked, and only once I understood the connection between being ugly and being treated like crap/ostracized/rejected did I start to suffer from my ugliness.

Functionally, I'm okay with myself.
Teeth are dark and crooked, but they work just fine.
Thin bones, totally fine. I'm very agile and a fast runner and I like that. I think having more bone mass would slow me down.
I only worry about these things because other people perceive me as weak and ugly because of them.

It's just that in reality nothing creates the same kind of respect that being a tallfag does, and nothing creates exactly the same halo/failo as the appearance of the face...

So yeah, ugliness is the bigger reason for unhappiness than inceldom, but only because one is being perceived and treated badly as a consequence of it.

If my appearance did not have such a strong influence on these things, then I would give my appearance very little attention.

Did you consider that maybe the reason you were happy before this realization is because you didn't actually believe you were ugly?

I was unhappy as long as I remember being self-aware of my deformity, and that's long before I ever thought I'd care about girls.
 
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I guess but we would be less unhappy if we had sex
 
The two are very strongly correlated so it is very easy to confuse the cause of your unhappiness, but I genuinely believe that we're unhappy because we're ugly, not because we're incel. If magically everything changed and we lived in a reverse-world where men were the hypergamus ones and ugly incels could fuck any women just like how any women can fuck Chad, we'd be just as unhappy because we are ugly. For this thread, I will reference a lot of fictional characters. The fact that these characters are fictional is irrelevant, all that matters is our percieved reaction to them, and whether we envy, pity, or despise them as that will reveal our true desires and inner psychology.

To reference literature, Brave New World is a perfect example of what I am speaking of. In the book Brave New World, Bernard is a qausi-deformed technocrat who's amongst a sea of perfectually beautiful genetically engineered people. His test-tube when he was created in the artificial laboratory screwed up and alcohol got in his test-tube. Because of this Bernards face is slightly imperfect, but relative to the perfect people around him he stands out like a sore thumb. Bernard is unattractive and ugly but still gets lots of sex because in the Brave New World universe humans are designed to be very sexual and non-discriminatory (sex is treated like hanging out with someone, so as long as Bernard could make a few friends he could get sex, although certain Chad characters like Hemholtz could get it more easily). Bernard has casual sex with his friend Lelina all the time, and has even more casual sex with his co-worker friends in their drug infused orgy meetings. Down below is Bernard and Lelina


View attachment 254810View attachment 254811View attachment 254812

Bernard is still very unhappy. Bernard KNOWS HES UGLY. If you are noticeably ugly, sex won't make you happy. You'll always know you are inferior just by your very nature. Looks are the truest marker of superiority. No matter how rich you are, how smart you are, how much sex you can status-max yourself into getting, you'll still be unhappy because what really matters is your appearance. Rich people pay MILLIONS OF DOLLARS to pay for butlers and servants and hotel staff to treat them with great respect, if you're attractive, people treat you with that respect anyways. Unless you have good looks, every single social interaction will be a battle to prove your worth "YES IM UGLY BUT BUT IM SMART BUT IM RICH BUT IM TALANTED". You look pathetic. Nothing will compensate for looks.

View attachment 254813View attachment 254814

Take another example, George Costanza from Seinfeld. George has sex with Stacies all the time in that show, sure it's in the 90s, and sure it's still very unrealistic, but notice how you'll never really envy George. He's seen as a loser despite making good money working for the Yankees, having multiple Stacy girlfriends, and being friends with a famous comedian. Why? The answer is obvious: George is short, ugly, and balding. Objectively speaking, George is highly successful in every way except for his physique, yet he's still laughed at as a stereotypical loser. You don't envy George, you pity him for being pathetic. This is the life of an ugly man, you will exist to be pitied or mocked and your life will be riddled with unhappiness even if you do manage to sleep with Stacies. That won't make you happy, you'll always be unhappy for being ugly.

View attachment 254817View attachment 254818View attachment 254819

This is why unattractive women are still very unhappy. Even if they can be pumped and dumped by Chad, that doesn't satisfy them. Often they scapegoat their unhappiness on not being able to achieve a long-term-relationship with Chad. I think this is a fallacy. I bet even if unattractive women could get in a long term relationship with Chad they'd still be unhappy. They'd be unhappy because they're ugly, they are objectively inferior in the most important regard to their attractive counterparts. No matter how well you are treated by the physical world, no matter how perfect your life seems in other regards, if you are unattractive you'll always have a sense of inferiority.

To look at my point from the reverse side. You know according to Batman lore, Bruce Wayne was a virgin well into his 20s? And it makes sense too, he went to an all-boys private highschool, was heavily guarded by staff growing up so he couldn't really go out and party. He spent his early to mid 20s at a martial arts training camp in Asia with a bunch of men. Earliest he would have lost his virginity is 28 when he came back to America. Bruce Wayne missed out on """"teen love"""" and even early 20s romance. Do you feel bad for Bruce Wayne? Do you envy him? Do you think he should "rope" for missing out these "milestones"? No, you probably don't think that. It's because Bruce Wayne is a tall attractive male so it doesn't matter if he was incel for the first 28 years of his life. Would you pity the guy below if you found out he was a KHHV until he was 28? He'll forget about that the moment he gets back to Gotham and connects with his social circle. Getting sex or not getting sex is a COPE because it's IN THE REALM OF POSSIBILITY for this condition to change, it's IN THE REALM OF IMPOSSIBILITY for you to ever become attractive. This is why saying your lack of sex is what causes your unhappiness is a COPE, it's your ugliness.

View attachment 254832View attachment 254833View attachment 254836

TLDR - Lack of Sex Isn't What's Bothering You, It's Being Ugly AKA Objectively Genetically Inferior And Achieving Sex Won't Satisfy Your Insatisfaction.

Good post. Its your potential to get sex that matters the most. You could be a chad virgin in your 30s and realize within that you could get any foid you want.
 
Good post. Its your potential to get sex that matters the most. You could be a chad virgin in your 30s and realize within that you could get any foid you want.

Well my post kind of refutes that idea too. Look at Bernard, the deformed technocrat in Brave New World. He could get all the sex he wanted, but he wasn't happy being ugly and deformed.

People 1000 years ago might have said "if i could get meat anytime I wanted, I would be happy". Well today we can get meat whenever we want, we just get used to it. Maybe sex is the same.
 
Well my post kind of refutes that idea too. Look at Bernard, the deformed technocrat in Brave New World. He could get all the sex he wanted, but he wasn't happy being ugly and deformed.

People 1000 years ago might have said "if i could get meat anytime I wanted, I would be happy". Well today we can get meat whenever we want, we just get used to it. Maybe sex is the same.

That is a very specific circumstance under which he could get sex. Thats not how it works in the real world. The primary purpose of your looks is to signal reproductive fitness (or lack of it) to the opposite gender. However, given how sexual selection has shaped our genetics to such a great extent, there is significant manipulation/hacks that can be employed by both genders.

Ugly women often use makeup to hide their ugliness. I have seen super ugly foids ( who, i agree, are generally unhappy compared to attractive foids) become confident and narcissistic after caking their faces with 5 layers of chemicals.

Similarly, there are studies that indicate men who are extremely wealthy, can offset their genetic ugliness to the point where they can be attractive to foids. (One study indicates that by knowing a guy has a high salary, foids voted his face +2 in the attractiveness scale compared to the control)
 
your posts are verbose.
 
That is a very specific circumstance under which he could get sex. Thats not how it works in the real world. The primary purpose of your looks is to signal reproductive fitness (or lack of it) to the opposite gender. However, given how sexual selection has shaped our genetics to such a great extent, there is significant manipulation/hacks that can be employed by both genders.

Ugly women often use makeup to hide their ugliness. I have seen super ugly foids ( who, i agree, are generally unhappy compared to attractive foids) become confident and narcissistic after caking their faces with 5 layers of chemicals.

Similarly, there are studies that indicate men who are extremely wealthy, can offset their genetic ugliness to the point where they can be attractive to foids. (One study indicates that by knowing a guy has a high salary, foids voted his face +2 in the attractiveness scale compared to the control)

TBH I think you are right, I am just putting the idea out there that maybe it's our looks itself, not the sex we can achieve through looks, that make us happy.
your posts are verbose.

I could simplify it to a single sentence but without proper arguments and details I wouldn't have much of a case.
 

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