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Blackpill We should denominate and record the various interpretations of "The Blackpill."

FrothySolutions

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We're just one forum, we might be the biggest forum but we aren't the only forum. So maybe we aren't the final ultimate authority on what "The Blackpill" is. And even if we were, it's not like we all agree on what it means. Constant conflict over what is and isn't blackpilled, and because this is a place that values free discourse, we're allowed to have our own opinions on what's blackpilled and what's not. But maybe we could take all of those opinions and group them into "incel denominations."

Here's what we do. We go over all/a bunch of the incel-related topics of discussion. Just like the surveys we so often take. "Who gets to be incel?" And "What do you think should be done about inceldom?" "How do you feel about women?" "How do you feel about Chads?" "Do Chads or women have it easier?" "How do you feel about degeneracy? What is 'degeneracy?' Who is degenerate? And are they degenerate because of society making them that way, or is it in their nature?" I could go on.

Each topic is an "axis" on some kind of multidimensional compass. We get all of the stances/opinions/views on these topics. Then, we group them into denominations. For instance, maybe I'm a... uhhh... "pro-2D, Chads have it better than women, anti-NoFap, pro-tallcel, anti-femcel, multiple sexual partners is degenerate but I like it/wish I could have it" sort of incel. That's only a few axes of course, I could go on. And then, we give that incel denomination a name. Like, I dunno, "Reformist Jackbudism" or something. We put it in the Wiki and everything.

But who decides the name? I think the people who share that collection of beliefs should get together and decide. Provided there are enough incels that share the same collection of beliefs. We're all so unique, maybe none of us share the same beliefs.

But let's say we do and this will work. What might be a problem for this forum is, how would we name the violent denominations? If there's a denomination that believes in violent means, in order to name it we would have to identify and gather the ones that do. :feelsLSD: And that's not happening for a number of reasons, chief among them I'm pretty sure this forum does not allow that kind of discussion.

Best I can understand the limits of free speech on Incels.is, you cannot say "I'm going to do a violent and illegal thing." Nor can you say "Here's instructions on how YOU can do a violent and illegal thing." I don't even think you can say "I want to do a violent and illegal thing." But what you can say, I think, is "I hope this specific violent and illegal thing happens. If a violent and illegal thing was to befall this particular party I don't like, I would be fine with that." But even that I don't think many people are comfortable with saying out loud on the forum. So maybe no one should.

I think for now let's start by collecting all of the topics/questions relevant to inceldom. Worry about answering them later. And someday, maybe we can get forum badges acknowledging where we each stand on "The Blackpill." So we know it just by looking at each other. You can be like "Oh this guy's a Reformist Jackbudist. No point in discussing cultural Marxism with him, he's set in his ways as far as that."
 
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I don't think there's any interpretation or belief going on here, scientists literally agree with us.
 
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OwlGod said:
I don't think there's any interpretation or belief going on here, scientists literally agree with us.

"Us?" What do "we" believe? Regarding what?
 
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FrothySolutions said:
"Us?" Regarding what?

scientific blackpill [???]
 
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OwlGod said:
scientific blackpill [???]

You mean that list of studies on the wiki? Is that the blackpill? In its entirety? Because others have more to say about what is and isn't "blackpilled." More than what's in those studies.
 
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Factionalism is bad, especially if you're talking about a relatively small community
 
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If you're ugly you don't get to play so, take out your Glock and start the hate.
 
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FrothySolutions said:
You mean that list of studies on the wiki? Is that the blackpill? In its entirety? Because others have more to say about what is and isn't "blackpilled." More than what's in those studies.

huh, they do? sure but with ,,in its ,,entirety'' I think you're exclaming with a diminutive depreciative tone, isn't it?

do you know how the predecessor of the blackpill is properly used? we used to say or do questions such as ,,redpill me on x,y,z", where I'm trying to get at is that the blackpill is the crudest crystalized truth regarding something.
 
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you dont need an science to tell you youre ugly.
 
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CWCville gentrifier said:
Factionalism is bad, especially if you're talking about a relatively small community

I suppose it would be better to be united?

OwlGod said:
huh, they do? sure but with ,,in its ,,entirety'' I think you're exclaming with a diminutive depreciative tone, isn't it?

do you know how the predecessor of the blackpill is properly used? we used to say or do questions such as ,,redpill me on x,y,z", where I'm trying to get at is that the blackpill is the crudest crystalized truth regarding something.

Is that what the blackpill is? And if so, what is the crystal truth? Because we seem to disagree a lot about what it is.
 
Negroid Berber

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So basically a political compass?
Jfl we don't need that shit here:feelsseriously:
 
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its very hard to concepttualize let alone canonize the blackpill withput alienating people with slightly diffrent perceptions/ opinions. My personal opinion on the subject is, the blackpill is something personal and a unique experiance/ philosophy for everyone, as long as it doesnt stray too far from the ''general consensus'' ( genetic determinism, dating statistics etc)
 
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The blackpill is a brutal Knockout.
 
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Negroid Berber said:
So basically a political compass?
Jfl we don't need that shit here:feelsseriously:

Many times more complicated than a 2-axis compass. But yeah, something on axes.

BPJ said:
its very hard to concepttualize let alone canonize the blackpill withput alienating people with slightly diffrent perceptions/ opinions. My personal opinion on the subject is, the blackpill is something personal and a unique experiance/ philosophy for everyone, as long as it doesnt stray too far from the ''general consensus'' ( genetic determinism, dating statistics etc)

Oh no, not alienate, unite! And give voice to.
 
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I like to think that the blackpill is more akin of a state of mind than an established set of beliefs.

Let's say you are 18yo and failed everything miserably. You have bad frame, failed at Uni, shit job, virgin with no gf,etc. You go to a blackpill community then:

- It's over. I rather rot and die.

But there's the clutch of the century. Some friend of yours invites you to some better job. You raise more money,suddenly more motivated you start lifting, then a a gf, perhaps even a family.
Black pill is no more.

And I say this because I know for a fact that the proportion of failed normies is higher than that of truecels.
 
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I love it, anything that brings coherence and structure to this whole thing I'll support
 
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Do it yourself, fbi :feelsjuice:
 
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GoyBargainer said:
Do it yourself, fbi :feelsjuice:

I think I might. At least starting with collecting all of the inceldom related topics/questions.
 
IncelWithHate

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What are these 'various interpretations' of blackpill? I wasn't aware there were any.

To start, what is your view on the list of studies we have on the wiki?

 
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IncelWithHate said:
What are these 'various interpretations' of blackpill? I wasn't aware there were any.

To start, what is your view on the list of studies we have on the wiki?


People here have more to say than just these studies. The studies only make a claim. People here have further interpretations and stuff regarding why the world is like this.

For instance, a study might say "We asked 100 women: Name something you would not like to have a man do for you on a date." And whatever the results of that study, someone here might say "That's because women are genetically inclined to think that way." Someone else here might say "Women aren't naturally this way. Society's increasing degeneracy made women that way, women weren't like this before." Someone else ESLE here might say "That just happened to be those 100 women. The sample size is flawed, I say women are really like THIS!"

That's what I mean by interpretations of The Blackpill. The various opinions over what's blackpilled and what's not, what's bluepilled and what's not. Surely you've seen that we can't agree on this?
 
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You're trying to ideologize something that is inherently not conducive to it. You're trying to make an ideology - a belief system - out of collection of scientific facts and a way of learning truths about our sociological and cultural world. The only people who constantly try to do this are the MSM, the left-leaning blue pilled echo chambers like reddit, and, in some cases, govt agencies.

It's a lot easier to attack something that has a central focal point of identity e.g., ideology. "Incels" aren't a united, monolithic group. There is practically nothing outside of our subhumanity that binds us into a singular group. By attempting to attach an ideology to a group, it gives it a clear identity and makes it an easier target to attack, which is what the MSM keeps doing with its false narrative of "alt-right, White misogynist group." Most of us are neither White, nor alt-right.
 
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beyond repair

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based_meme said:
You're trying to ideologize something that is inherently not conducive to it. You're trying to make an ideology - a belief system - out of collection of scientific facts and a way of learning truths about our sociological and cultural world.

The only people who constantly try to do this are the MSM, the left-leaning blue pilled echo chambers like reddit, and, in some cases, govt agencies.

i just want a sincere place where inceldom as a sociological issue is debated. :feelsbadman:
 
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beyond repair said:
i just want a sincere place where inceldom as a sociological issue is debated. :feelsbadman:
You're already there (here).
 
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based_meme said:
You're trying to ideologize something that is inherently not conducive to it. You're trying to make an ideology - a belief system - out of collection of scientific facts and a way of learning truths about our sociological and cultural world. The only people who constantly try to do this are the MSM, the left-leaning blue pilled echo chambers like reddit, and, in some cases, govt agencies.

It's a lot easier to attack something that has a central focal point of identity e.g., ideology. "Incels" aren't a united, monolithic group. There is practically nothing outside of our subhumanity that binds us into a singular group. By attempting to attach an ideology to a group, it gives it a clear identity and makes it an easier target to attack, which is what the MSM keeps doing with its false narrative of "alt-right, White misogynist group." Most of us are neither White, nor alt-right.

But we do have ideologies. If it were entirely fact, we would all agree on it.
 
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The blackpill is lit how an incel gets treated by girls/women. No need of definition kek, thats not an ideology. You want it to be a doctrine-like pseudoscientific clownshit like muh "scientific communism". There isn't any incel ideology, movement, etc.
based_meme said:
You're trying to ideologize something that is inherently not conducive to it. You're trying to make an ideology - a belief system - out of collection of scientific facts and a way of learning truths about our sociological and cultural world. The only people who constantly try to do this are the MSM, the left-leaning blue pilled echo chambers like reddit, and, in some cases, govt agencies.

It's a lot easier to attack something that has a central focal point of identity e.g., ideology. "Incels" aren't a united, monolithic group. There is practically nothing outside of our subhumanity that binds us into a singular group. By attempting to attach an ideology to a group, it gives it a clear identity and makes it an easier target to attack, which is what the MSM keeps doing with its false narrative of "alt-right, White misogynist group." Most of us are neither White, nor alt-right.
This
FrothySolutions said:
But we do have ideologies.
No we don't kek :feelskek:
 
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calimero

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We could compile an questionnare that asks questions and grades them on a 1-5 likert scale that we intuitively feel are highly related to facets of inceldom. For example:

"I feel ostracized by my peers" 1 - 5
"I have faced many rejections from women" 1 - 5
"I feel like my height is preventing me from achieving romantical succes" 1 - 5
"Society should adhere to traditional values between man and women" 1 - 5

Etc. Like 200 questions that would capture the incel phenomenology.

After that we could do a factor analysis to see how many factors we need to describe e.g. 95% of the results of people. Say there turn out to be 5 factors, then we can interpret these and name these and then we have distilled the dimensions of inceldom.

I think that is the most scientific way
 
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calimero said:
dimensions of inceldom.
Bruh, nuf with this clownshit, an incel's an incel. You either have/had some success with girls/women or you don't have any. Some atleast average looking girls/women either are/were attracted to you or they aren't. And that's it.
 
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FrothySolutions said:
We're just one forum, we might be the biggest forum but we aren't the only forum. So maybe we aren't the final ultimate authority on what "The Blackpill" is. And even if we were, it's not like we all agree on what it means. Constant conflict over what is and isn't blackpilled, and because this is a place that values free discourse, we're allowed to have our own opinions on what's blackpilled and what's not. But maybe we could take all of those opinions and group them into "incel denominations."

Here's what we do. We go over all/a bunch of the incel-related topics of discussion. Just like the surveys we so often take. "Who gets to be incel?" And "What do you think should be done about inceldom?" "How do you feel about women?" "How do you feel about Chads?" "Do Chads or women have it easier?" "How do you feel about degeneracy? What is 'degeneracy?' Who is degenerate? And are they degenerate because of society making them that way, or is it in their nature?" I could go on.

Each topic is an "axis" on some kind of multidimensional compass. We get all of the stances/opinions/views on these topics. Then, we group them into denominations. For instance, maybe I'm a... uhhh... "pro-2D, Chads have it better than women, anti-NoFap, pro-tallcel, anti-femcel, multiple sexual partners is degenerate but I like it/wish I could have it" sort of incel. That's only a few axes of course, I could go on. And then, we give that incel denomination a name. Like, I dunno, "Reformist Jackbudism" or something. We put it in the Wiki and everything.

But who decides the name? I think the people who share that collection of beliefs should get together and decide. Provided there are enough incels that share the same collection of beliefs. We're all so unique, maybe none of us share the same beliefs.

But let's say we do and this will work. What might be a problem for this forum is, how would we name the violent denominations? If there's a denomination that believes in violent means, in order to name it we would have to identify and gather the ones that do. :feelsLSD: And that's not happening for a number of reasons, chief among them I'm pretty sure this forum does not allow that kind of discussion.

Best I can understand the limits of free speech on Incels.is, you cannot say "I'm going to do a violent and illegal thing." Nor can you say "Here's instructions on how YOU can do a violent and illegal thing." I don't even think you can say "I want to do a violent and illegal thing." But what you can say, I think, is "I hope this specific violent and illegal thing happens. If a violent and illegal thing was to befall this particular party I don't like, I would be fine with that." But even that I don't think many people are comfortable with saying out loud on the forum. So maybe no one should.

I think for now let's start by collecting all of the topics/questions relevant to inceldom. Worry about answering them later. And someday, maybe we can get forum badges acknowledging where we each stand on "The Blackpill." So we know it just by looking at each other. You can be like "Oh this guy's a Reformist Jackbudist. No point in discussing cultural Marxism with him, he's set in his ways as far as that."
Blackpill is the set of empiric and scientific knowledge confirming that looks are over personality,game,income etc. Period.
 
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calimero

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AlphaCentauri said:
Bruh, nuf with this clownshit, an incel's an incel. You either have/had some success with girls/women or you don't have any. Some atleast average looking girls/women either are/were attracted to you or they aren't. And that's it.
It's not that simple. Some incels complain about looks, others about high inhib. Some feel like neeting, others like careermaxxing. Many here are opposed to jews, others gravitate towards islam, others christianty or atheism.

There is a lot of diversity, so FrothySolutions @FrothySolutions is right that he wants to disentangle the denominations

It is more than a black and white definition. It has become a culture and a phenomenology. Therefore it can be studied
 
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GluePrittCel said:
that looks are over personality. Period.
For most of todays girls/women, yes. Bundy and Meeks are a blatant example of that.
calimero said:
It's not that simple. Some incels complain about looks, others about high inhib. Some feel like neeting, others like careermaxxing. Many here are opposed to jews, others gravitate towards islam, others christianty or atheism.

There is a lot of diversity, so FrothySolutions @FrothySolutions is right that he wants to disentangle the denominations

It is more than a black and white definition. It has become a culture and a phenomenology. Therefore it can be studied
Such a thing is totally pointless, inceldom is a STATE, not a culture, ideology, cult (as some want to make it into such) kek, etc. Doesnt matter the background and ideas of incels, this is not a movement. Incel is anyone who can't have a gf although he wants one, regardless of the causes.
 
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AlphaCentauri said:
No we don't kek :feelskek:
But we clearly do. We're constantly debating what is and isn't blackpilled. I'm in a thread right now where people are debating whether it's within the allowance of the blackpill to say that minors shouldn't be here. Whether minors have tried hard/long enough or if you can know just from looking at yourself whether you should give up immediately. These are the ideological differences I'm trying to get at.
 
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FrothySolutions said:
But we clearly do. We're constantly debating what is and isn't blackpilled. I'm in a thread right now where people are debating whether it's within the allowance of the blackpill to say that minors shouldn't be here. Whether minors have tried hard/long enough or if you can know just from looking at yourself whether you should give up immediately. These are the ideological differences I'm trying to get at.
These are not ideological but lit technical disagreements kek :feelskek:
 
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AlphaCentauri said:
For most of todays girls/women, yes. Bundy and Meeks are a blatant example of that.

Such a thing is totally pointless, inceldom is a STATE, not a culture, ideology, cult (as some want to make it into such) kek, etc. Doesnt matter the background and ideas of incels, this is not a movement. Incel is anyone who can't have a gf although he wants one, regardless of the causes.
Inceldom doesn't have to be an ideology or movement to be a sociological or cultural phenomenon. We are creating these forums for people that have had similar experiences and feel very separated from other people i.e. normies, foids and chads. So there is a shared phenomonology. Disentangling that can be useful so we can get a better idea of why this is happening and understanding it as well. Otherwise inceldom will be stigmatized and stereotyped and become synonymous with violence, misogynism and terrorism.
 
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The blackpill regarding sexual attraction is that some men are undesirable to virtually all women, and that the physical and psychological traits that women find attractive or unattractive in men are, for the most part, inborn and genetically determined, and impossible to change.

There are many other blackpills, most of which are related to lookism, sexual selection, female sexuality, and women's position in society, but I think that this is the most important one to incels.
 
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calimero said:
We are creating these forums
Didnt knew i was talking with Serge kek :feelskek::feelskek::feelsbaton:
 
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AlphaCentauri said:
Didnt knew i was talking with Serge kek :feelskek::feelskek::feelsbaton:
Still it doesn't change my point
 
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calimero said:
Still it doesn't change my point
Nope, you and FrothySolutions @FrothySolutions are just delusionmaxxing too much but that's your choice kek :feelskek:
 
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AlphaCentauri said:
Nope, you and FrothySolutions @FrothySolutions are just delusionmaxxing too much but that's your choice kek :feelskek:
Im not delusionmaxxing you have just retardmaxxed too much to understand my comment
 
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AlphaCentauri said:
These are not ideological but lit technical disagreements kek :feelskek:

What? What is an "ideology" then? It's about a belief. Is it bluepilled or not to say that kids aren't necessarily automatically incel just because they're done growing and are very short?
 
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FrothySolutions said:
What? What is an "ideology" then? It's about a belief. Is it bluepilled or not to say that kids aren't necessarily automatically incel just because they're done growing and are very short?

The point is we have data. Is there any 'belief' involved in how we calculate gravity for example? There are flat earthers - is their 'disagreement' valid?
 
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IncelWithHate said:
The point is we have data. Is there any 'belief' involved in how we calculate gravity for example? There are flat earthers - is their 'disagreement' valid?

For one, that "data" is mostly just surveys of people's opinions. We throw words around like "scientific" and "study" to make them sound more authoritative than they are. I ask a handful of winos how they feel about the capital gains tax, technically that's scientific process.

But even if we're just talking about those articles we found, the point we have is beyond that. The point we have is our collective varying opinions on what that data means about the world and what we should do. What is and isn't based. Who does and doesn't control who and what. And why. And how.
 
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FrothySolutions said:
For one, that "data" is mostly just surveys of people's opinions. We throw words around like "scientific" and "study" to make them sound more authoritative than they are. I ask a handful of winos how they feel about the capital gains tax, technically that's scientific process.

It wouldn't be worth consideration if it was one, or two studies. Or they had issues like low sample sizes. They become objective when the same results are repeated across various societies, multiple times. Such reports cease being mere 'opinions'. One thing blackpill has proven is that women are very consistent creatures.

FrothySolutions said:
But even if we're just talking about those articles we found, the point we have is beyond that. The point we have is our collective varying opinions on what that data means about the world and what we should do. What is and isn't based. Who does and doesn't control who and what. And why. And how.

This is like taking the data for single motherhood and saying we need to record how various political parties react to it, and their 'solutions'.

I don't understand why we 'need' to do anything about it or why its even relevant.
 
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I'd say that blackpill is basically a set of statements that blackpillers believe to be true and are related to blackpill concepts.
Similar to the redpill and bluepill - these may be objectively true or false, unanimous or 50/50.

I don't really see the point of splitting it according to the 50/50 vs unanimous.

The current classification based on individual statements (ie. Heightpill, jawpill, racepill, dogpill etc.) is better.
 
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IncelWithHate said:
It wouldn't be worth consideration if it was one, or two studies. Or they had issues like low sample sizes. They become objective when the same results are repeated across various societies, multiple times. Such reports cease being mere 'opinions'. One thing blackpill has proven is that women are very consistent creatures.



This is like taking the data for single motherhood and saying we need to record how various political parties react to it, and their 'solutions'.

I don't understand why we 'need' to do anything about it or why its even relevant.

We need to so we can make sense of this community. These views are what make the incel, not really the "data" behind it.
 
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FrothySolutions said:
We need to so we can make sense of this community. These views are what make the incel, not really the "data" behind it.

I think the community makes enough sense as is.
 
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IncelWithHate said:
I think the community makes enough sense as is.

But we could organize this forum so much better. I can see a guy and know just by looking "Oh, this guy is a NoFap Fundamentalist." It would streamline our inceldom discussions.
 
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FrothySolutions said:
But we could organize this forum so much better. I can see a guy and know just by looking "Oh, this guy is a NoFap Fundamentalist." It would streamline our inceldom discussions.

.....No.

That's like saying you want people to walk around with a shirt that lists all of their political views and stances. "It would streamline our conversations bro".

Some people may fit more neatly into categories, but there are others that are all over the place. For example, I am apolitical. The distinctions of 'left/right', 'liberal', 'conservative' hold no relevance for me. I tell people to just ask me what topic they are interested in and I will inform them where I stand. I would think most agree with this line of thought instead of broad assumptions.
 
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IncelWithHate said:
.....No.

That's like saying you want people to walk around with a shirt that lists all of their political views and stances. "It would streamline our conversations bro".

Some people may fit more neatly into categories, but there are others that are all over the place. For example, I am apolitical. The distinctions of 'left/right', 'liberal', 'conservative' hold no relevance for me. I tell people to just ask me what topic they are interested in and I will inform them where I stand. I would think most agree with this line of thought instead of broad assumptions.

If you stand somewhere, you're not apolitical. You might be complex, but you can be understood.
 
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FrothySolutions said:
If you stand somewhere, you're not apolitical.

No, it simply means I may have an opinion on the topic. Or I might not. That in itself can be a stance.
 
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IncelWithHate said:
No, it simply means I may have an opinion on the topic. Or I might not. That in itself can be a stance.

What do you mean by "political?"
 
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