Hi, I will be arguing this from a strictly Christian point of view, although I am not 100% a traditional Christian. The reason I choose to do this is that this way, we are in a context that we both recognize as legitimate.
... but it is also clear to all that the incel is a problem no matter how much one thinks.
I think we should draw a clear line here.
It is of course legitimate for the Church to make its position know about social issue. As such, it is clear that public pronouncements by the said Church on the Incel problem should be made. In particular, the root cause of inceldom, the regression of humanity to the level of animal instinct (alpha only has sex) should be condemned without ambiguity. To a certain extent, such pronouncements have been made, over at least the last 50 years.
However, I think that it is clearly not legitimate for the individual christian to decide what reality should be like. That is exclusively God's business. So if God decides that he will make sinners "fall into there own snare" (Psalm 141:10) by forcing a large part of the human male population into involuntary celibacy, it is entirely up to Him. In effect, God has declared monks 15% of the male Western population, including the atheists and all those who would be just as depraved as Chad if they could. Doesn't this look like a enormous act of mercy on God's part? He is basically preventing these men from sinning by making it impossible for them to do so. On top of that, he is forcing them to be humble by putting them on the lowest rung of society. Isn't that what God did to Israel when he put them under Egyptian slavery? Wasn't that to Israel's ultimate advantage?
Even if we are all humble and virtuous,it is still clear to all that many men were made to be with a women and to serve god through marriage
Not if it is impossible to do so without sinning in an egregious manner. Today, a married man sinns constantly against God because he has to worship his wife and all her idolatrous trappings. By preventing us from being married, God is in effect preventing us (mercifully) to infringe on the first commandment (the most sinful when breached). He is in effect giving us a chance not to be obliterated with all the other foid worshipers on the Last Day (including those mentioned in the Bible, like the worshipers of Astoreth, the "queen of heavens" (Jer 7:18), Lilith, the whore of Babylon, etc.) It is well know that forcibly preventing a man from sinning, even without his knowledge and against his will, is one of the biggest graces one can receive.
,so to have their functions unfillfiled because of no fault of their own is brutal.
Don't begrudge God his grace. For the moment, you have not committed any fault because God has prevented you. If he allowed you to marry, you would probably become a simp foid-worshiper and God would have to destroy you on the Day of Judgement.
it is not a mans fault if he suffers from pain 24/7 because he has a great illness.so it isn't our fault if part of us feels unfulfiled because our bodies are not getting what they need.
We do not NEED sex. God never said that, and monks have proved that it was possible to do without.
Yes, in many parts of the Bible, God has said that the institution of marriage is ok in general. But for each individual, it depends on God's decision on how he distributes his grace. If God thinks it would be bad for you to marry, are you going to say otherwise?
in heaven we shall be like angels,and we shall no longer need a wife for our well being but that is in heaven not here on earth.if even god didn't think it was fitting for adam to suffer celibacy(Then the Lord God said, “It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him.”),i don't know why we are to think otherwise.
It depends on circumstances. The marriage of Adam and Eve established a general precedent for mankind. But for each individual, it depends on God's decree. Didn't Paul say "It is good for them to stay unmarried" (1 Cor 7:8) ?
sure some were made to be monks,friars etc,but those are few.
Maybe it is different today? Who are we to say to God how many monks there should be?
it is clear that from the beginning,man was made with their propogation in mind(we have our reproductive organs for reason) and god himself told us to propogate and multiply(And God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth.”).
There is no worry about our propagation today. We have never been as numerous on Earth. Maybe God has decided that multiplying was not the priority right now.
so to have a life in opposition to what we were made to be is clearly wrong.
Here again, you are approaching the dangerous territory of judging God's conduct. Nothing happens without God's say-so.
i know op will disagree with me,and i know my argument is based on catholic theology,but i think it should be easy to see that just because we suffer,it doesn't mean we are in the wrong for desiring a good that is good.
Of course not. But sometimes God deprives us of some good because something worse would happen to us if he gave us that good. That is why God prevented Israel from entering the promised land for 40 years because they were not ready. We do not have God's foresight. Something good in itself (like marriage) may be connected to something bad that we do not see (like idolatry). In the case of the 40 years in the desert, it is noteworthy that God's concern was also Idolatry. He knew Israel would be tempted by the Canaanites' idolatry if he let them mingle with them too soon.
desiring marriage and a women isn't bad and never will be.women and marriage aren't inherently wrong in any way whatsoever.you could say there are better greater ways of living life(being a celibate hero who saves millions is technically better then a married man with 3 kids),but not that it is wrong in any way shape or form.
Again, you forget that a good thing (in itself) may be connected to a bad one that you do not see.
so i agree with op that the way most of us act is wrong(ldaring all day isn't virtuous or much pleasing.imagine telling god in judgment that you didn't do anything for him because you couldn't get pussy when god was building a mansion out for you,if you hadn't fucked up and deserted him),but i don't see the problem with suffering from inceldom.i assume if we were more humble,our pain would be lessen,perphaps mostly anhiliated (humbleness generally helps one see pain in a different light and cope much better with it),but at the end of the day a wrong is a wrong and a wrong needs to be fixed for one not to complain about it.
Another reason God may deprive us of a good is when he wants to bend our will towards him. Suffering and despondency is what causes us to cry "Abba, Father", for our own good. Look at how many Incels are atheists and anti-Christian. Maybe God has decided to save them against their will, just like Jesus saved publicans and sinners. If this is indeed God's decree, he will surely make them suffer until they cry "Abba, Father" and accept to submit, for their own good. Paul was raging against the Church in his youth and then God stroke him and made him another man. As Christians, I think we should testify to this and tell our brocels that this is for our own good, to force us to turn to God. This is at least what I am trying to do with threads like this. I am not using overtly Christian language to avoid people not listening. In reality, when I am talking about "narcissistic rage", I am merely using a modern word for what the Bible calls sin and the rebellious nature of the unconverted man. Being incels is a deep blow to our pride. Isn't that the best way to be led to the Crucified?
I don't think we are being punished by being Incels. I think the role of the few Incel Christians is to explain to others the meaning of our situation which is, I am sure of it, a huge gift on God's part. God has often used Christians in this way in the past.
