@ShySaxon provided this image, it pretty much covers everything, there's no need for me to say anything else
Serious To All Religiouscels - How Do You Rationalize Your Belief In An All Powerful, All Knowing, Good God? (Epicurean Paradox)
@ShySaxon provided this image, it pretty much covers everything, there's no need for me to say anything else
I believe the world is a simulation and that we reincarnate indefinitely
P
there's various takes on this according to christianity, the main one is "god is superior so we cant understand his ways" also "this life doesn't matter and is a test in itself, only the afterlife matters, that's why god doesnt stop our suffering in this life"
im not saying its right or wrong, just that that's like the official take on this as far as i know
im not saying its right or wrong, just that that's like the official take on this as far as i know
god in their head is just some cheap hooker who think they is on "their side" because they're incel
if they were chad they wouldn't give a shit
D
@Mainländer @Opus132 @Teutonic Knight What counter arguments can you present? I'm genuinely curious.
there have been cases of children rembering there past lifes etc definetly real imo
Even this argument is covered in the image, the implication of this argument is that
A. He's just doing it this way because he wanted to despite the suffering (which means he's not "good" or "loving")
OR
B. There are forces at play that dictate that he had to create a world with evil (which means he's not "All Powerful")
If this is a test then HE'S NOT "ALL KNOWING"
LITERALLY EVERYTHING IS COVERED IN THIS IMAGE, THERE IS NO EXCUSE
GOD CANNOT BE "GOOD", ALL POWERFUL AND ALL KNOWING AND THE WORLD BE LIKE THIS, AT LEAST ONE OF THOSE 3 ATTRIBUTES BECOMES FALSE
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based hypothesis. but imo you can escape this cycle of samsara with correct mental training. I have done astral projection before which is main reason my view point changed
Over for Abrahamistcels
fair point, i didnt check the image, just went off what i remember of epicuro's paradox from high school philosophy and didnt remember exactly lmao sorry
tbf you're right that it doesn't really check out
Sure bud
cope we have one chance and that's it. which makes the blackpill real brutal
D
believing in god means you are voluntarily admitting that you believe being cucked by a Chad is a good thing and that you voluntarily do it for free with nothing in return
Nah you reincarnate, there are literally children who remeber past memories etc. I wish all the dead cels reincarnate as chad
if god wasnt real he wouldnt allow the suffering happening in the world
idk brocel tbh
trust me bro there is always a second chance. im going to believe
you can literally find these type of stories anywhere, how can you explain children remebering there past life ? And if the world isnt a simulation why tf are we the only intelligent species, if the universe is infinite. And why is the world so cruel, must be a simulation.
D
what? god doesn't care about anyone, I'm sure that's why he needs so many (((donations))) to buy a new yacht even though he has magic powers.
ik i said if he was real there wouldnt be so much suffering. unless god is evil
Yes, just like stories of balding 5ft 2In Janitors with amazing personalities that normies like to go around talking about, everybody "knows a guy" who "isn't a looker" but "slays" because he has "so much confidence", and its definitely not any other factors
Not all "stories" are true
You are using circular reasoning, this is the biggest indicator of someone being illogical, you are presupposing that they are indeed remembering past lives IN YOUR ARGUMENT TO VALIDATE THEY HAD PAST LIVES
I swear I don't know how people end up using circular logic, if you have any self awareness you immediately realize the argument is fallacious
Its like me saying - "Personality matters, how do you explain all those women falling for man's personality"
I'd be assuming FROM THE START WITHIN THE ARGUMENT that they did indeed fall in love with these men's personalities which makes my entire argument pointless as I'm presupposing I'm right to begin with, a circular argument is the most fallacious kind of argument to make, because its you PRETENDING that you are arguing when you are really just ASSERTING THAT YOU ARE RIGHT
1. You are assuming we are the only intelligent species, there's probably another one out there who like us, are unable to contact any other species because were so far apart and our technology isn't advanced enough
2. FALSE DICHOTOMY (google it) - "The world has to be a simulation else there would be more than one intelligent species"
I realize you make A LOT OF LOGICALLY FLAWED ARGUMENTS
dn rd
first of all comparing bluepills to this is pointless, its evolutinary instinct for women to breed with the most sexual dimpohric males due to biological factors. All i can do is speculate about this stuff, no one knows what happens after death, because we're alive. There's no evidence for what actually happens at all after death, I agree my argument is flawed though.
You are making assumptions
same with the stone paradox:
'“Can God create a stone so heavy that He cannot lift it?”.
Assumption: God is bounded by physics or worldly constructs.
Problem with Image lies withing the fourth question.
"Does God wants to prevent evil?"
Assumption: God lacks the ability or some moral code where he just doesn't care if evil takes place.
....
God created THE CONCEPT of what is evil and what is good for a purpose. We believe that this life is a test where we are created with free will to do our best and to avoid evil and enjoy what is good. In the end, we will be judged, and evil will be met with true justice- This will be decided on an individual case (however God sees fit for that individual).
Source: reddit
Edit: thanks for silver kind strangerino
back to low effort postmaxxing i guess
same with the stone paradox:
'“Can God create a stone so heavy that He cannot lift it?”.
Assumption: God is bounded by physics or worldly constructs.
Problem with Image lies withing the fourth question.
"Does God wants to prevent evil?"
Assumption: God lacks the ability or some moral code where he just doesn't care if evil takes place.
....
God created THE CONCEPT of what is evil and what is good for a purpose. We believe that this life is a test where we are created with free will to do our best and to avoid evil and enjoy what is good. In the end, we will be judged, and evil will be met with true justice- This will be decided on an individual case (however God sees fit for that individual).
Source: reddit
Edit: thanks for silver kind strangerino
back to low effort postmaxxing i guess
I can't tell if you are parodying a typical religious repsonse or you are being serious, so there's really no motivation for me to actually address the arguments you made
Idk about that simulation mess but I believe in reincarnation in the sense that our "selves" as such don't really exist on a macro level & therefore no "one" actually "dies" per se.
Implying that we have free will tbh. Also God already knows what we are going to do.
Also the Bible talks about miracles so God can interfere with your life whenever he wants.
I was going to answer but his entire response is "mixed signals" so I just didn't bother, adding this portion:
To the end of his post just made me think he was parodying religious people, so I saw no need to respond
B
"Free will" should be branching off from "Why is there evil".
See entry #4 here for the complete argument.
https://www.iep.utm.edu/evil-log/#H4
See entry #4 here for the complete argument.
https://www.iep.utm.edu/evil-log/#H4
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Only because God is All-knowing doesn't mean we don't have free will.
Denying we have free will is ridiculous.
I dont believe in God(s) ngl but I think if it does exist people try to humanize it too much. Whatever it is its not a human so it doesn't think like a human or use human logic.
Not necessarily, because "free will" is nothing but a pre-selected set of choices, we can't create worlds like God now can we, does that mean our "will" isn't "free"?
My point is, even in a world where evil didn't exist, and your options were restricted to "only do good", you'd still have free will, because even within the "free will" we have in a world "with evil" our actions are still restricted by the rules God imposed
So evil existing does not imply you have "free will", you have "free will" regardless, and had evil not been created, YOU WOULD NOT EVEN BE AWARE OF THE OPTIONS BEING DENIED TO YOU, NOR WOULD THOSE OPTIONS EXIST
One can only be "free" to do something if its possible to begin with, so in a world without evil you still have "free will"
You'd still have "free will" (technically) but it would just be God playing sick semantic games, because every action you will make has been predetermined, you just have to will to make it, but its already known you ARE GOING TO MAKE THOSE ACTIONS
Did we "humanize" it, or did it "Godify" us, whose to say that they way we think (human logic) isn't a reflection of how that being operates
Either way what you're doing is just another version of the "god is superior so we cant understand his ways" argument that religious people often use and IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE
This isn't a matter of "understanding"
God created pain right?
If God is all powerful then there was literally no need for pain to exist, or any suffering at all to exist, it was not a requirement (as though its outside of God's control), no kind of suffering needed to exist, yet God went out of his way to create it, that means God isn't "good"
Saying "its too complicated to understand" or "God uses different logic" is a red herring and a "cop out", it has nothing to do with anything, God is aware of what pain feels like because God created it, he is making people suffer necessarily because if he is "all powerful" there was no need for these things
The point of the thread is that God cannot be all three at the same time (all powerful, all knowing and "good")
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B
Plantinga's argument addresses your concerns.
I believe in Buddhism(mainly Mahayana) where there isn't any God dishing out punishments or granting rewards. From what I have learnt so far, the focus is to escape Samsara.
Ok, I understand what you are saying. However, it's not "playing sick semantic games". People who say that just don't want to be responsible for the evil they do. Ok, so the concept of free will and pre-determinism.
There is a popular list analogy of free-will and pre-determinism regarding evil deeds.
Imagine I am throwing a party. I'm making two lists. Guest List A and Guest List B.
Guest List A is a secret. Nobody, but me, knows who is on that list.
Guest List B is open and says to people: "If you want to be on B, here are some things you should abstain from ( evil ) and do ( good deeds )"
So you got two options:
Either you say: " Maybe I'm on A so why should I bother" that proves you didn't want to go to the party that BAD anyway since you are gambling, arent you?
or: "Maybe I'm on A but maybe I'm not but I really want to go to the Party, so what should I do?" Whatever the tasks are to guarantee the spot in Guest List B
When you get to the party you will realize that your name was on both lists the whole time.
All the people who signed up on B were already on A and all the people who didn't sign up on B were not on A either.
God mysteriously GUIDES and DECIDES
You can say its Gods will and human effort
no too much effort tbh
I am going thru the jhana meditation stages and astral projection attempts but don't care for dharma/karma/morality stuff. As I don't feel they are actually needed to ascend
I hope I reincarnate into the king of the world, so I can remove all the cucked laws.
based. isekai with cheats max
It has nothing to do with what "evil" you will do, it has to do with what will HAPPEN TO YOU
Lets say you are just born into a poor broken family, you get molested and sexually assaulted by all the men your whore mother lets be around you, you are around gangs all the time and its better to be out there selling drugs with guys who treat you better than your rapists, etc, etc
SOME PEOPLE ARE LITERALLY SET UP TO HAVE A SHITTY LIFE, THEY WERE BORN INTO IT
Saying - "well you could have chosen "the right path" anyways"
Is complete bullshit, because to a person who lived in such circumstances "RIGHT" DOES NOT EXIST, they didn't get an easy life with good parents who thought them "right" from "wrong", and even when they did REALITY SHOWED THEM THAT THOSE BELIEFS SEEMED MORE LIKE FALSEHOODS
This is something I've talked about before, the game is rigged, God has pretty much set up some people to go to hell and others to go to heaven, and then people throw around "free will" like that's an excuse, free will only really matters when we all get EQUAL STARTING POINTS
If a guy is born to be tall, blonde, rich (heir to a fortune), handsome, with a 160+ IQ
AND
Another guy is born to be short, ethnic, poor, ugly, with an IQ of 80
IT'S RIDICULOUS TO SAY "BUT MUH FREE WILL"
Free will is a red herring, it means nothing if you don't have the options available to act out your will "the right way", and by options I mean "ability" and "information" (as in knowing what is "right" or "wrong")
Your argument assumes everybody is just born knowing it, which is false, all morals are learnt behavior, and if your circumstances are trash you likely won't be "moral person"
2. Either way free will becomes even more ridiculous when you add the threat of hell to it
If I put a gun to your head, and ask for your money, yes, you technically have "free will" to choose to give me your money or choose to get killed, but that's just as I said GOD PLAYING SICK SEMANTIC GAMES
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Thank you for your post
1.) Noone said life is equal for everyone. If you never had religious guidance you will not be judged for it. Look what i said
2.) I dont understand your second point to be honest. Assuming that example scenario , yes, you have a "free will" to decide if you want to live or pay the money. What has that to do with hell or heaven?
JFL if you guys think you can do any of this shit without a humans sacrifice or something (and that's if its even possible), nothing of such value can be gained without sacrificing something
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