Blackpill Tinder didn't start the fire, it was always burning since the world was turning.

[Ryo_Hazuki]

What I'm about to say is basically "water is wet" to most of you, but there are some users here who romanticize the pre-tinder dating scene. They think most ugly guys were able to get sex/relationships prior to it's launch in 2012. Most of these users were not even adults when it came out, but when tinder was launched I was already 25. Furthermore, I've approached a lot of women, including many many sub4 women (very ugly or obese) and as you all know I was rejected every single time. The vast majority of those rejections (like 95+ percent) were from 2006-2010. I can tell you from personal experience and what I've observed my whole life, that hypergamy and juggernaut law were alive and well long before tinder (or smartphones for that matter) were a thing.

In fact, hypergamy predates the internet, computers, electricity, and even the wheel or written language. Hypergamy is a naturally occurring phenomenon and there is mountains of evidence of this. Primarily the fact that most men in human history did not reproduce.

https://psmag.com/environment/17-to-1-reproductive-success

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/sep/24/women-men-dna-human-gene-pool

Women have always been the ones who controlled sexual selection. Men want women vastly more than women want men. It's not just sexual, our instinct is to love, protect, and provide for women. Women, simply put, do not feel the same way about men. This is for very simple biological reasons.

Thread inspired by @NEETAndTidy, who I always thought was pretty blackpilled, but made a shockingly bluepilled (and objectively inaccurate) declaration that ugly men could get women without betabuxxing before Tinder came out.

Edit: Just to be clear, I fully acknowledge that Tinder has amplified hypergamy. But my point is that Tinder didn't create mass hypergamy, it just made things like 25 percent worse.

 

[BrettyBoy]

Most females have overly sky high standards, which will only get worse.

 

[Deleted member 12355]

the idea is to restrict female nature to the extent that is possible in order to make life tolerable for both sexes. Dating apps such as Tinder does the opposite, and statistics attest to this. The dating climate is getting colder for men anually. It wasn't nearly this difficult 15 years ago even.

 

[Deleted member 8353]

Well I was 18 in 2012, didn't have any luck then, and that's when I was still trying with the online stuff. People repeatedly told me a was ugly as a kid, so I have no illusions about my appearance.

 

[thelonewanderer]

declaration that ugly men could get women without betabuxxing.

how did he justify that statement

 

[FrameCell]

Hypergamy and juggernaut law were alive but severely suppressed from the lack of access to a high volume of superior genetics and high status males.

Tinder and Facebook amplified these two things 10x fold.

Haircuts, PUA, clothing, and money were potent enough to overcome genetic barriers.

Those things are now completely obsolete as you now need the preferred race, height, and facial structure to break the success barrier in dating due to their plethora of options on every social media platform.

Pre-tinder & facebook it was sub4 rule to be excluded from dating foids.

It is now sub8.

 

[Hikikomori]

Women have become such cunts that my natural instincts towards them has done a 180 ...

I used to want to love, protect, and provide. Now I just want to watch them burn instead.

 

[FrameCell]

I don't think you guys can call me crazy if I predict we will see sub9 in our lifetime. Within 5-10 years we should hit this.

7 and 8 males will still be elgible to date/hookup, but they will be treated like trash, pawns, and disrespected to the point that many will recognize that it really isn't worth it (doesn't this sound like japan?).

 

[brunson]

I posted the same with a true story illustrating how bad it could be in the 90s, but was accused of larping, as if I don't have better things to do. You either turn women on or you don't. Someone who was successful with women back then would be successful now, just maybe get less action with all the distractions there are. Maybe a guy who managed to get laid a couple of times and then got dumped for a better looking guy would never get laid at all now, but for the most part I believe things haven't changed so much. I can't speak for pre 90s as I wasn't yet dating, but in the 90s looks were what it was all about.

 

[Deleted member 14866]

its utter cope to think sub4 men had a chance in any period of time, especially "muh 50s"

 

[DeepSea]

Women have always been the ones who controlled sexual selection.

Did women control sexual selection in prehistory? Maybe. Female sexual selection is almost universal in the animal kingdom, so it's possible, but not certain, that the earliest, most animalistic humans allowed females to freely choose their sexual partners.

Did women control sexual selection during most historical time periods? Absolutely not. Almost all historical societies denied women the right to freely choose their sexual partners. There must have been some type of evolutionary advantage in controlling female sexuality because almost all societies that survived until modern times controlled it. Those societies that did not restrict female sexuality mostly did not survive until modern times. As Unwin has pointed out, the more severe the restrictions placed on female sexuality in any particular historical civilization, the more advanced that civilization was likely to be.

In other words, female sexuality is primitive and animalistic. There is no benefit to allowing women to freely choose their sexual partners. To quote an infamous incel, “Women should not have the right to choose who to mate with. That choice should be made for them by civilized men of intelligence.”

In fact, hypergamy predates the internet, computers, electricity, and even the wheel or written language. Hypergamy is a naturally occurring phenomenon and there is mountains of evidence of this. Primarily the fact that most men in human history did not reproduce.

https://psmag.com/environment/17-to-1-reproductive-success

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/sep/24/women-men-dna-human-gene-pool

Hypergamy is not the main factor why most men in human history failed to reproduce. It was, at best, a contributing factor. In all of recorded history, there have been only around 300 years of peace and most of those years were used to prepare for more war. Most primitive human societies are in a constant state of warfare. When a tribe defeats another tribe, the women of the defeated tribe survive but all or most of the males get killed. It makes no sense to attribute the fact that most males did not pass on their genes to female hypergamy when it is much more readily explained by warfare.

 

[StaroRavager]

I’ve been saying this ever since I got here

 

[NormieKiller]

Ugly men really had it harder 15-25 years ago no shit about that.

Average men had still some power within the dating dynamic (in the 90's until the late 2000's) but because of Tinder and smartphones, they become the "new ugly" as we often hear.

4-5/10 men could ascend normally pre-2012, now they either have to date landwhales or rot/rope.

 

[ShyManlet]

Ive been thinking about the pros and cons of today and back then.
Back on good ol patriarchy in order to get sex you have to marry the woman.

Nowadays normie can string along foid for years and get husband privilege. Although the divorce court now favors foid, the fact that most normies can get their gf to have sex with them, blowjobs etc and then dump them after wasting years of their youth kinda makes up for it, dont you think?

Now no man gonna marry a foid without the bf gf phase for at least 1/2 yrs
And theres a good chance the men would just dump her
And shed have to look again
Kinda life fuel tbh

Back then when most marriage last a lifetime, and foids cant have jobs, rights to vote, etc, its damn near impossible to get ons, or sex outside of marriage, cause even the sluttiest, least disciplined foids know non virgin women cant find husband therefore theyll have to rely to parents for their whole life if they wanna fucj chad..

So doesnt this mean things kinda even out ultimately? For normie at least
Since incel can never get gf to begin with

 

[mylifeistrash]

What I'm about to say is basically "water is wet" to most of you, but there are some users here who romanticize the pre-tinder dating scene. They think most ugly guys were able to get sex/relationships prior to it's launch in 2012. Most of these users were not even adults when it came out, but when tinder was launched I was already 25. Furthermore, I've approached a lot of women, including many many sub4 women (very ugly or obese) and as you all know I was rejected every single time. The vast majority of those rejections (like 95+ percent) were from 2006-2010. I can tell you from personal experience and what I've observed my whole life, that hypergamy and juggernaut law were alive and well long before tinder (or smartphones for that matter) were a thing.

In fact, hypergamy predates the internet, computers, electricity, and even the wheel or written language. Hypergamy is a naturally occurring phenomenon and there is mountains of evidence of this. Primarily the fact that most men in human history did not reproduce.

https://psmag.com/environment/17-to-1-reproductive-success

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/sep/24/women-men-dna-human-gene-pool

Women have always been the ones who controlled sexual selection. Men want women vastly more than women want men. It's not just sexual, our instinct is to love, protect, and provide for women. Women, simply put, do not feel the same way about men. This is for very simple biological reasons.

Thread inspired by @NEETAndTidy, who I always thought was pretty blackpilled, but made a shockingly bluepilled (and objectively inaccurate) declaration that ugly men could get women without betabuxxing before Tinder came out.

Edit: Just to be clear, I fully acknowledge that Tinder has amplified hypergamy. But my point is that Tinder didn't create mass hypergamy, it just made things like 25 percent worse.

pre-tinder men had the illusion of hope and being able to get girls via PUA

post-tinder, now a non-good looking man can't even talk to a woman without having the police come and beat his ass

 

[Deleted member 6470]

It's sad to see how some of you are clueless.
Back in the 80s, they had dating videos. You filmed your ugly ass and hoped for the best.
The problem, women who got your tape, laughed at the incels.
For some men it never began.

 

[Gamblord]

Agree with OP. Life was not vastly better pre-Tinder. By the mid to late 90's women already had high standards that disqualified average height men and ethnics. Average guys were getting blown out unless they had an edge (money, fame/status, roids, PUA game). Internet dating and Tinder just made everything a lot worse for the non-Chads.

It's not so much Tinder but Technology as a whole that has rendered all of us redundant and given women endless options. You almost can't blame them for behaving like cunts. If you were a Chad you'd have limitless options with women only constrained by your time to bed them all. Naturally, you would become picky and disregard 80% of your matches.

 

[FinnCel]

Tinder was just a gasoline poured on fire

 

[Incel801]

Great thread!

A big factor not being talked about is the complete failure of marrige in society. Back in the 90's when I was a teen, women were still being pressured by society to get married unlike today.

I think that is a big factor in the rise of inceldom, just as much as tinder or social media. Women are now being told it's more important to be "happy" and have a fulfilling career then get married these days.

I can attest that sub 4 men had it real hard before but ugly women were being pressured to get married and would have to settle for thier looksmatch. This doesn't happen today at all, You can forget about that...

 

[NEETAndTidy]

I just think it was a very different game.

For example my mom has a friend we can call john

John is 60. He is a slow adult (not retarded) and has never worked. He claims hes had sex twice.

Hes not much taller than me and arguably uglier.

When i see stuff like that it just shows standards were MUCH different.

Obviously human nature didnt change when Tinder showed up.

But the fact that women could start dating outside their social groups/longer distance with almost zero effort

Yeah that certainly exasperated the problem

 

[Alone75]

Things were hard when I turned legal age in the 90s, some say it's been harder since the 60s and the sexual revolution/liberation period only got foids and hippy chads more sex. All I know is things get more difficult and will continue to, while women's options keep increasing as more avenues become easily available, social media, connecting to guys she finds attractive worldwide, what will be next?

 

[StoicNihilist]

Hypergamy and juggernaut law were alive but severely suppressed from the lack of access to a high volume of superior genetics and high status males.

Tinder and Facebook amplified these two things 10x fold.

Haircuts, PUA, clothing, and money were potent enough to overcome genetic barriers.

Those things are now completely obsolete as you now need the preferred race, height, and facial structure to break the success barrier in dating due to their plethora of options on every social media platform.

Pre-tinder & facebook it was sub4 rule to be excluded from dating foids.

It is now sub8.

I agree with most of what OP said, but disagree that hypergamy was always as bad as it is now. Back in the pre industrial era where monogamous standards were strictly enforced and adhered to even 5/10 men stood a good chance at finding a partner if he had a steady income and could provide.

He could probably find some ugly chunky women to settle with, but that's just not the case anymore. As you said, below sub8 men are considered sexually handicapped in today's dating market.

So just fucking forget it if you're a 4/10. It's over for you.

 

[OwlGod]

extremely legit

 

[fheon]

Before tinder 7/10 men and above had to go to bars with friends.

Now they order women to their door step