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The Bible as an anti-moralist book – Adam and Eve, Garden of Eden, Cain and Abel in-depth analysis

D. B. Gooner

D. B. Gooner

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The Bible as an anti-moralist book – Adam and Eve, Garden of Eden, Cain and Abel in-depth analysis

The Bible is history's most influential moral guide. But what if the Bible's opening chapters aren't about morality at all, but a warning against it?

Before we begin, I need to define what “God” means in this interpretation.

To me, God is not a judge. He does not have an ego. God is the very concept of being itself.
The fundamental condition that everything shares: existence. The ultimate abstraction of life. God is the blueprint every single thing in existence is built upon.

Book of Exodus 3:14: “I am who I am.”
1777058931798


That statement is crucial. God is existence without judgment, without categorization. He is who he is, and no one questions it.

And if humans are made in God’s image, then that same principle exists within us all in the form of human nature - our instincts, our impulses, our intuitive drive to act,. To follow God, in this framework, is not to obey rules. It is to align with your own nature, and to act without constantly judging yourself.

If gravitating towards certain behavior is unavoidable, why struggle against it? This is where my core belief lies. To me, God is human nature. To be faithful to God means to follow your instinct, and filter it through reasoning. Your instinct isn’t there to tempt you, it is there to guide you.

You can think of your instinct as a reward system. For an example, when your body craves nutrients, it signals that by making you uncomfortable through hunger. Once you eat, you feel immediate satisfaction. That satisfaction is your reward for obeying human nature, for obeying God, and it simultaneously benefits your health, as your body now has the fuel it needs to function.

With that in mind, let’s look at the opening chapters of Book of Genesis, as I explain why the bible can be interpreted as an anti-moralist book. I will also talk about Cain in detail, as I believe him to be one of the most complex characters ever written, considering we only have one chapter worth of content around him.

Genesis 1 – Duality and Acceptance

Genesis 1:1–4:
“In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth...darkness was over the surface of the deep... ‘Let there be light’... God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness.”

Before light is created, darkness already exists. If something exists without being created, then it must be an attribute of God. Darkness also exists within God, and God is perfect. And if it exists in God, it must also exist in us.

This introduces a fundamental idea: duality is not a flaw - it is inherent.

Light cannot exist without darkness. Heaven cannot exist without earth.
1777058965203


In human terms, this reflects emotional duality. Every

Love and hate are not opposites in a moral sense - they are both functional and necessary states.

Love sustains life: it forms bonds, enables reproduction, ensures survival across generations. A baby can not survive without its mothers love. An elder can not survive without the love of their children.

But hate also has function. If someone threatens your family, responding with passive understanding may put them in danger, while aggression and violence might keep them protected. Is protecting yourself and your loved ones really wrong?

So the text, at least in this reading, is not establishing morality. It is establishing balance. Not good vs evil. Just unavoidable and beneficial states of being.

First man is created.

Genesis 2 – the rejection of morality

Genesis 2:16-17:
“And the LORD God commanded the man, ‘You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.’”

God does not introduce morality. He warns against it. Before this moment, humans act without self-judgment. They do what they do, without questioning whether it is “right” or “wrong.”

Morality is presented as a choice, not a necessary foundation.

Genesis 2:19–23:
“Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky...whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name...”

Here, a distinction appears: God creates. Man names. Creation is natural. Naming is categorization.

This is the beginning of abstraction - of assigning meaning, labels, and structure onto reality. That process will later become a burden. Because instead of living, humans begin interpreting their own existence. Humans, while searching for meaning in their lives, end up overthinking and not living in the moment or enjoying some blessings they might have. Meaning is not something we should have to think about, we are here to act.

The creation of woman introduces something different. Her body, as well as her name is derived from man. They are not separate entities in the same way animals are. Man and woman complete each other. Their union produces life. Only in this union do we truly tap into the potential of life.
1777059199797


And importantly, they are naked, and unashamed. Because shame requires judgment. And judgment does not yet exist.

Genesis 3 – the fall into judgement

Genesis 3:4-5: “’You will not certainly die,’ the serpent said to the woman. ‘For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.’”
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The serpent introduces separation. Think about it’s shape, it’s a line, a border. It separates. It represents division, distinction, categorization. Humans are told they will become “like God.” But think about the world we have today. We aren’t “like God”, we imitate God. People roleplay God. Judges, using their own, subjectively formed definitions of good and evil, sentence people to prison time, and even death.

Instead of letting the world play out the way it should based on already existing laws of nature, we enforce our own, manmade laws.
Genesis 3:8–12:
“Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden. But the LORD God called to the man, ‘Where are you?’...’I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid...’”

They hide. Not because God punishes them, but because they judge themselves before God ever judges them. God does not accuse. He asks them what they did.

The judgment is internal. They become ashamed of simply existing. They cover their once naked bodies. This is also where separation deepens.

After this the man becomes Adam. He too, is now categorized, he is no longer just “man” acting the way a man should, but a person who will rethink every action. Adam names his wife, he categorizes her, she is no longer just another part of him, she is now a separate entity.

Identity replaces unity. Morality enters and with it: shame, fear, self-doubt.

Genesis 4 – Cain and Abel

If God is human nature, then prayer is intuition. And sacrifice is the rejection of what society values, rejection of materialism.

Ownership, after all, is not natural, it is constructed. Nothing in nature guarantees permanence of possession. Possessions are temporary.

Abel offers his best. Cain withholds.

This reflects two orientations: Abel acts in alignment with instinct. Cain is attached to social value and material worth .

Cain kills Abel. Not out of pure instinct but because his identity depends on external validation. Abel’s rejection of material value undermines Cain’s entire worldview. Cain’s whole self-worth comes from his material possessions. If Abel doesn’t value his possessions, he also doesn’t value Cain. So Cain destroys him.
1777059253418


But again, God does not immediately punish.

He asks:

Genesis 4:13–15:
“...What have you done?...”

“‘My punishment is more than I can bear. Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”

Cain judges himself. His punishment is not imposed, it is psychological.

Cain claims he will be hidden from Gods presence. The reason for this is if God is instinct, Cain can’t return to following him. If he returns to living instinctively, he will have to face the fact that his brother was right, and that he killed him for no reason.

He also can’t enjoy his possessions anymore. He killed Abel out of envy. Ironically, this envy and rage he used to kill his brother, are very instinctive emotions. He momentarily relied on instinct, so that he may preserve his possessions. But in doing so, he proved that instinct ultimately overwrites morality. His whole system of values is built on lies.

He cannot return to instinct, because that would force him to admit his action was meaningless. But he also cannot return to moral society, because he has violated it. He exists in no-mans land. That is his torment.

“...the ground will not yield its crops...”

Not literal. Symbolic. His labor becomes meaningless, because he knows what he did for it. His material success is permanently stained with blood.

And this is crucial:

“...anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance...”

Not because God will punish them. But because they too will contradict themselves. If anyone judges Cain for being a murderer, and decide that they want to kill them, they too would become murderers. In order to punish someone off of judgement, you have to stoop to their level. You have to abandon the very morality you are trying to enforce. Their punishment is also internal.

History and identity

1777059297155


After the story of Cain, we get our first biblical genealogy. Names. Roles. Functions. I believe this is intentional. We no longer get to hear these people’s stories, they simply become their jobs, their function within society. History is the ultimate categorization, people are oversimplified to what they did for society, and then judged based off of that. We idolize, condemn and compare. And in doing so, we lose individuality. Ironic right? By trying not to act on a shared human nature, we become less and less unique.

Conclusion

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In this reading, Genesis is not a story about sin. It is a story about the emergence of judgment. Humans were not cast out for disobedience. They chose to abandon instinct… in favor of categorization, morality, and self-evaluation.

And in doing so, they created: shame, conflict, identity as something separate from being.

God does not punish. Humans do. To themselves. And the further we move away from instinct,
the further we move away from simply being, the more we divide, categorize, and judge… until nothing is left but systems… and roles… and the constant question: “Am I doing the right thing?”
 
This was written as a script for a yt video I'm going to make, it took me hours.
@Krad @St3v3Cel @Sir Silentium @Shark @deleted dude @thevineyardworker @The_word_made_flesh @xek000000kk
Will tag some christian users, as well as others who might be interested.
Will go to sleep soon, so if anyone responds, I will take a while.
 
will take a look soon king
 
This was written as a script for a yt video I'm going to make, it took me hours.
@Krad @St3v3Cel @Sir Silentium @Shark @deleted dude @thevineyardworker @The_word_made_flesh @xek000000kk
Will tag some christian users, as well as others who might be interested.
Will go to sleep soon, so if anyone responds, I will take a while.
If God wasn't Lord, He wouldn't say to us to obey His commandments.
 
This was written as a script for a yt video I'm going to make, it took me hours.
@Krad @St3v3Cel @Sir Silentium @Shark @deleted dude @thevineyardworker @The_word_made_flesh @xek000000kk
Will tag some christian users, as well as others who might be interested.
Will go to sleep soon, so if anyone responds, I will take a while.
I believe Love will outage hate, as something of the past.

As well as the darkness, where evil will be along with death, alone.

Light can exist without darkness, Heaven could exist without Earth, but it doesn't because Earth is good and creation Of God.


Evil stays outside what God touches, and forever separated, away from Him.
 
This was written as a script for a yt video I'm going to make, it took me hours.
@Krad @St3v3Cel @Sir Silentium @Shark @deleted dude @thevineyardworker @The_word_made_flesh @xek000000kk
Will tag some christian users, as well as others who might be interested.
Will go to sleep soon, so if anyone responds, I will take a while.
What came from Cain came from inside Cain, one shall have accountability to it's own sin.

You can have your life, but life with God is objective, not something that is subjective in its core.

Because The Truth Is Objective, And He Is Who He Is.
 
I would agree that man was never mean to exist in a moral context but to love the Father to love the Creator as you said : He is who he is אהיה אשר אהיה as God told Moses .

It was the fall of man that created morality and need to be moral to survive a godless world . Where in Paradise or Heaven there is no morality but only service to God as a labor of love not obligation . And as Christ who reconciled us back to God would also want above technical rules .
 
The Bible as an anti-moralist book – Adam and Eve, Garden of Eden, Cain and Abel in-depth analysis

The Bible is history's most influential moral guide. But what if the Bible's opening chapters aren't about morality at all, but a warning against it?

Before we begin, I need to define what “God” means in this interpretation.

To me, God is not a judge. He does not have an ego. God is the very concept of being itself.
The fundamental condition that everything shares: existence. The ultimate abstraction of life. God is the blueprint every single thing in existence is built upon.


View attachment 1716060

That statement is crucial. God is existence without judgment, without categorization. He is who he is, and no one questions it.

And if humans are made in God’s image, then that same principle exists within us all in the form of human nature - our instincts, our impulses, our intuitive drive to act,. To follow God, in this framework, is not to obey rules. It is to align with your own nature, and to act without constantly judging yourself.

If gravitating towards certain behavior is unavoidable, why struggle against it? This is where my core belief lies. To me, God is human nature. To be faithful to God means to follow your instinct, and filter it through reasoning. Your instinct isn’t there to tempt you, it is there to guide you.

You can think of your instinct as a reward system. For an example, when your body craves nutrients, it signals that by making you uncomfortable through hunger. Once you eat, you feel immediate satisfaction. That satisfaction is your reward for obeying human nature, for obeying God, and it simultaneously benefits your health, as your body now has the fuel it needs to function.

With that in mind, let’s look at the opening chapters of Book of Genesis, as I explain why the bible can be interpreted as an anti-moralist book. I will also talk about Cain in detail, as I believe him to be one of the most complex characters ever written, considering we only have one chapter worth of content around him.
But not all natural human nature is of the Lord, take lust for example. We naturally crave sex and fornication, but does that mean we should follow it just because it is natural? No. If we were to follow our natural desires 100% of the time this would lead us into temptation, sin, and exactly the path that Satan wants us to go down.

And why should we follow these principles other than because God says so? Because it will greatly improve our lives. There is not one principle in the bible that if we don't follow we wouldn't have a better life. God wants the best for us in this life, and after this life too. He is of everlasting love.


Genesis 1 – Duality and Acceptance



Before light is created, darkness already exists. If something exists without being created, then it must be an attribute of God. Darkness also exists within God, and God is perfect. And if it exists in God, it must also exist in us.

This introduces a fundamental idea: duality is not a flaw - it is inherent.

Light cannot exist without darkness. Heaven cannot exist without earth.
View attachment 1716062

In human terms, this reflects emotional duality. Every

Love and hate are not opposites in a moral sense - they are both functional and necessary states.

Love sustains life: it forms bonds, enables reproduction, ensures survival across generations. A baby can not survive without its mothers love. An elder can not survive without the love of their children.

But hate also has function. If someone threatens your family, responding with passive understanding may put them in danger, while aggression and violence might keep them protected. Is protecting yourself and your loved ones really wrong?

So the text, at least in this reading, is not establishing morality. It is establishing balance. Not good vs evil. Just unavoidable and beneficial states of being.

First man is created.

Genesis 2 – the rejection of morality
Good way of putting it.

Also, people will read "turn the other cheek" and believe to follow God we cannot defend ourselves or others. If someone cuts off your arm, let him not cut off your other arm.

The crusades are also another good example, with the battle against the Muslims to reclaim the Holy land. When the Lord returns, he will send fire to destroy all of the places of Muslim residence first.


God does not introduce morality. He warns against it. Before this moment, humans act without self-judgment. They do what they do, without questioning whether it is “right” or “wrong.”

Morality is presented as a choice, not a necessary foundation.



Here, a distinction appears: God creates. Man names. Creation is natural. Naming is categorization.

This is the beginning of abstraction - of assigning meaning, labels, and structure onto reality. That process will later become a burden. Because instead of living, humans begin interpreting their own existence. Humans, while searching for meaning in their lives, end up overthinking and not living in the moment or enjoying some blessings they might have. Meaning is not something we should have to think about, we are here to act.

The creation of woman introduces something different. Her body, as well as her name is derived from man. They are not separate entities in the same way animals are. Man and woman complete each other. Their union produces life. Only in this union do we truly tap into the potential of life.
View attachment 1716064

And importantly, they are naked, and unashamed. Because shame requires judgment. And judgment does not yet exist.
And then Eve ate the fruit and manipulated Adam into temptation, as this is the natural toxic femininity that nobody talks abouts. Women have been deceiving and manipulating men since the start of creation, and that is why we are all living in sin now.


Genesis 3 – the fall into judgement


View attachment 1716063

The serpent introduces separation. Think about it’s shape, it’s a line, a border. It separates. It represents division, distinction, categorization. Humans are told they will become “like God.” But think about the world we have today. We aren’t “like God”, we imitate God. People roleplay God. Judges, using their own, subjectively formed definitions of good and evil, sentence people to prison time, and even death.

Instead of letting the world play out the way it should based on already existing laws of nature, we enforce our own, manmade laws.


They hide. Not because God punishes them, but because they judge themselves before God ever judges them. God does not accuse. He asks them what they did.

The judgment is internal. They become ashamed of simply existing. They cover their once naked bodies. This is also where separation deepens.

After this the man becomes Adam. He too, is now categorized, he is no longer just “man” acting the way a man should, but a person who will rethink every action. Adam names his wife, he categorizes her, she is no longer just another part of him, she is now a separate entity.

Identity replaces unity. Morality enters and with it: shame, fear, self-doubt.
We should uphold Gods laws, rather than our manmade laws.

We have seen what happens when man creates his own laws, Moses destroyed the golden calf by burning it in fire, grinding it into a fine powder, mixing it with water, and forcing the Israelites to drink it.

They should have kept to the teachings of Jesus rather than create a separate image.


Genesis 4 – Cain and Abel

If God is human nature, then prayer is intuition. And sacrifice is the rejection of what society values, rejection of materialism.

Ownership, after all, is not natural, it is constructed. Nothing in nature guarantees permanence of possession. Possessions are temporary.

Abel offers his best. Cain withholds.

This reflects two orientations: Abel acts in alignment with instinct. Cain is attached to social value and material worth .

Cain kills Abel. Not out of pure instinct but because his identity depends on external validation. Abel’s rejection of material value undermines Cain’s entire worldview. Cain’s whole self-worth comes from his material possessions. If Abel doesn’t value his possessions, he also doesn’t value Cain. So Cain destroys him.
View attachment 1716065

But again, God does not immediately punish.

He asks:



Cain judges himself. His punishment is not imposed, it is psychological.

Cain claims he will be hidden from Gods presence. The reason for this is if God is instinct, Cain can’t return to following him. If he returns to living instinctively, he will have to face the fact that his brother was right, and that he killed him for no reason.

He also can’t enjoy his possessions anymore. He killed Abel out of envy. Ironically, this envy and rage he used to kill his brother, are very instinctive emotions. He momentarily relied on instinct, so that he may preserve his possessions. But in doing so, he proved that instinct ultimately overwrites morality. His whole system of values is built on lies.

He cannot return to instinct, because that would force him to admit his action was meaningless. But he also cannot return to moral society, because he has violated it. He exists in no-mans land. That is his torment.



Not literal. Symbolic. His labor becomes meaningless, because he knows what he did for it. His material success is permanently stained with blood.

And this is crucial:



Not because God will punish them. But because they too will contradict themselves. If anyone judges Cain for being a murderer, and decide that they want to kill them, they too would become murderers. In order to punish someone off of judgement, you have to stoop to their level. You have to abandon the very morality you are trying to enforce. Their punishment is also internal.

History and identity

View attachment 1716066

After the story of Cain, we get our first biblical genealogy. Names. Roles. Functions. I believe this is intentional. We no longer get to hear these people’s stories, they simply become their jobs, their function within society. History is the ultimate categorization, people are oversimplified to what they did for society, and then judged based off of that. We idolize, condemn and compare. And in doing so, we lose individuality. Ironic right? By trying not to act on a shared human nature, we become less and less unique.
Genesis 4:15
“Not so; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over.”


Conclusion

View attachment 1716067

In this reading, Genesis is not a story about sin. It is a story about the emergence of judgment. Humans were not cast out for disobedience. They chose to abandon instinct… in favor of categorization, morality, and self-evaluation.

And in doing so, they created: shame, conflict, identity as something separate from being.

God does not punish. Humans do. To themselves. And the further we move away from instinct,
the further we move away from simply being, the more we divide, categorize, and judge… until nothing is left but systems… and roles… and the constant question: “Am I doing the right thing?”
 
Dont agree with a good chunk of this post but its incredibly high iq
 
Brilliant thread. Extremely solid interpretation of this portion of the Bible, I think it's very plausible that it could be about something along the lines of this. My personal interpretation of this story the first time I read it was that it was about God desiring human sacrifice, I have no idea what I was thinking because I was way off the mark. That's what happens when you read something casually with your eyes half-open I suppose.

Anyways, I think that this thread ties in very well to this previous thread of yours:
We humans really do get too caught up in our own inventions. If we could go back to see things more for what they are we could live more freely.
 
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But not all natural human nature is of the Lord, take lust for example. We naturally crave sex and fornication, but does that mean we should follow it just because it is natural? No. If we were to follow our natural desires 100% of the time this would lead us into temptation, sin, and exactly the path that Satan wants us to go down.
But that is all so vague. Lust literally leeds to reproduction, to new life. It is foundational and necessary. How is it not of the Lord?
Genesis 4:15
“Not so; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over.”
I cover this in the thread. Their vengeance will be the same as Cains, they will start judging themselves the way they judged Cain.
 
I believe Love will outage hate, as something of the past.

As well as the darkness, where evil will be along with death, alone.

Light can exist without darkness, Heaven could exist without Earth, but it doesn't because Earth is good and creation Of God.


Evil stays outside what God touches, and forever separated, away from Him.
But darkness existed before light, and before the fall of mankind. Does that not mean that it is necessary and functional?
 
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Dont agree with a good chunk of this post but its incredibly high iq
This is the only way the bible makes sense to me, and I think it's a fairly cohesive reading. Especially the Cain part. To just say he killed someone and then got punished is so vague and empty.
 
But that is all so vague. Lust literally leeds to reproduction, to new life. It is foundational and necessary. How is it not of the Lord?
Sexual immorality.

For example adultery, in nature men prefer quantity whilst women prefer quality, so naturally men are going to be fornicators if they act off instinct.
 
Sexual immorality.

For example adultery, in nature men prefer quantity whilst women prefer quality, so naturally men are going to be fornicators if they act off instinct.
But without lust, sex would be a fully rational choice. You could genuinely choose not to do it. Those 40yo cat ladies would be right, they don't need kids, because if there was no lust, they never would feel the inclination to reproduce.
 
I really hate this book. Why is the book of truth so ambiguous that everyone can interpret it in different ways? Can't Theology write a formal and logical set of laws? Why make it so confusing for the reader?

Is it so that the Church has the right to define truth? If 1+1 is no longer 2, then power becomes absolute truth.
 
But darkness existed before light, and before the fall of mankind. Does that not mean that it is necessary and functional?
Because darkness is nothingness, and before creation there was nothing there was no Earth, no sea, no skies or life.
 
I really hate this book. Why is the book of truth so ambiguous that everyone can interpret it in different ways? Can't Theology write a formal and logical set of laws? Why make it so confusing for the reader?

Is it because the Church has the right to define truth? If 1+1 is no longer 2, then power becomes absolute truth.
Thats the thing. Anyone who creates his own laws is a fraud. We have laws. If you stab me in the heart, I die, thats a law. Everyone will one day die, that's a law. Everyone is born, that's a law. Humans can't teleport, that's a law. Law's aren't what you should and shouldn't do, they're what you can and can't do.
 
Because darkness is nothingness, and before creation there was nothing there was no Earth, no sea, no skies or life.
Not really, nothing is nothingness, darkness is something.
 
Thats the thing. Anyone who creates his own laws is a fraud. We have laws. If you stab me in the heart, I die, thats a law. Everyone will one day die, that's a law. Everyone is born, that's a law. Humans can't teleport, that's a law. Law's aren't what you should and shouldn't do, they're what you can and can't do.
I think legal language, like theology, is also flexible to a certain extent, giving lawyers aka priests loopholes to maneuver and protect those with money and power.
 
I think legal language, like theology, is also flexible to a certain extent, giving lawyers aka priests loopholes to maneuver and protect those with money and power.
Ofc, it is a social construct, so it is used to create advantages for certain people within society, "of the world" as christians would say. The fact that religious people subscribe to authority is silly.
 
Darkness is the absence of light, and light is everything, because God is light.
So why did darkness still exist after the creation of light. God separated them for a reason, because they're codependent and necessary.
 
So why did darkness still exist after the creation of light. God separated them for a reason, because they're codependent and necessary.
All things are possible with God, including light with light.
 
All things are possible with God, including light with light.
So why didn't it happen if it's possible. Surely if God didn't eliminate the darkness, it must be benefitial? Are you saying you know better than the very God you worship?
 
So why didn't it happen if it's possible. Surely if God didn't eliminate the darkness, it must be benefitial? Are you saying you know better than the very God you worship?
God removed the gravity of the waters and walked on it. Because He can.

And He made others also be able to walk in it.


To man, it was impossible to walk, but with God, it was possible.


I believe He could do even more than just walk in the waters, fantasy is just a word for what is not put on practice to Him.
 
God removed the gravity of the waters and walked on it. Because He can.

And He made others also be able to walk in it.


To man, it was impossible to walk, but with God, it was possible.


I believe He could do even more than just walk in the waters, fantasy is just a word for what is not put on practice to Him.
But he still chose not to remove the darkness after creating the light. Why is that? Couldn't be because he deemed it necessary right?
 
But he still chose not to remove the darkness after creating the light. Why is that? Couldn't be because he deemed it necessary right?
Perhaps for the days of this day, but to anyone who believe In The Lamb, who will inherit The Eternal Kingdom, i don't think so.


Fantasy is just a word for what is not put in practice to Him.

✝️
 
But that is all so vague. Lust literally leeds to reproduction, to new life. It is foundational and necessary. How is it not of the Lord?

I cover this in the thread. Their vengeance will be the same as Cains, they will start judging themselves the way they judged Cain.

The punishment to anyone who tries to kill Cain....

Smelz like war....???


.......



War and more war.... how much war....?
 
Sexual immorality.

For example adultery, in nature men prefer quantity whilst women prefer quality, so naturally men are going to be fornicators if they act off instinct.
You're anti-natalist. Without lust, less people would be born.
 
You're anti-natalist. Without lust, less people would be born.
But he is right about something

That no man would love to have its woman taken away from him.


And no man would also not woman to be woman of another man.
 
You're anti-natalist. Without lust, less people would be born.
But without lust, sex would be a fully rational choice. You could genuinely choose not to do it. Those 40yo cat ladies would be right, they don't need kids, because if there was no lust, they never would feel the inclination to reproduce.
The point is God has warned us against temptation, fornification, etc which are "natural", but anti-christ. So clearly God will not want us to follow our natural desires, as like I said early it is of the devil.

And also Lust is not equal to Love.


But he is right about something

That no man would love to have its woman taken away from him.


And no man would also not woman to be woman of another man.
It is so simple to understand, the Lord has set out rules that we should abide be if we are to be following him. If we disobey his rules and go against him, then we will face the consequences.

It's not about "morals" or "anti-morals", it's about following christ.
 
The point is God has warned us against temptation, fornification, etc which are "natural", but anti-christ. So clearly God will not want us to follow our natural desires, as like I said early it is of the devil.

And also Lust is not equal to Love.
So you'd rather believe God is torturing us, than believe God made us perfect (in his image) and the institutions have manipulated human nature to torture us?
 
So you'd rather believe God is torturing us, than believe God made us perfect (in his image) and the institutions have manipulated human nature to torture us?
Absolutely not, God is saving us by giving us these principles to live by. They make our life better.
 
Absolutely not, God is saving us by giving us these principles to live by. They make our life better.
But he designed us to gravitate away from those "principles" through "temptation".

Or maybe temptation is good, and the true principles we are meant to live by are already inside of is.
 
More or less my interpretation of the bible as well.
 
But he designed us to gravitate away from those "principles" through "temptation".

Or maybe temptation is good, and the true principles we are meant to live by are already inside of is.
What if my temptation is insanity?
 
But he designed us to gravitate away from those "principles" through "temptation".

Or maybe temptation is good, and the true principles we are meant to live by are already inside of is.
Perhaps some temptations are from earth and man


And others from someone who do not like God, and it's army.


The devil and it's angels.
 
The point is God has warned us against temptation, fornification, etc which are "natural", but anti-christ. So clearly God will not want us to follow our natural desires, as like I said early it is of the devil.

And also Lust is not equal to Love.



It is so simple to understand, the Lord has set out rules that we should abide be if we are to be following him. If we disobey his rules and go against him, then we will face the consequences.

It's not about "morals" or "anti-morals", it's about following christ.
Fornication is not natural and was not in the beginning of all days. It came only when our parents ate the fruit God told them not to.
 
I like the concept of lust when done by a man and it's wife.

If you love her you will lust her.
 
And there is no shame in it.

Because we all here are here because we lust to woman and we desire woman.

Lust is, simply, desire.


That's why you shalt discern which lust is from the evil one.
 
And there is no shame in it.

Because we all here are here because we lust to woman and we desire woman.

Lust is, simply, desire.


That's why you shalt discern which lust is from the evil one.
Why would any of it be evil
 
Why would any of it be evil
Because wanting to take someone's wife is demonic, because you do not want that to happen to you, no man does.


And wanting to make another male your wife is also demonic, because you are doing something you do not want to do on others.


Neither a animal, because animals are not woman, and you can see they do not like what you do to them.
 
Because wanting to take someone's wife is demonic, because you do not want that to happen to you, no man does.


And wanting to make another male your wife is also demonic, because you are doing something you do not want to do on others.


Neither a animal, because animals are not woman, and you can see they do not like what you do to them.
Hmmm so you're saying lust is a sin, but we should discern "good" lust from "bad" lust. So if there is such a thing as "good lust" then it can't be a sin because sin is universal and objective.

Also, yes I wouldn't want someone else to fuck my wife, but that's not what's happening, we have egos, I am not him, its his wife that's being fucked and I'm the one doing the fucking.
 
we have egos
And it is written: "You shall love your brother as you love yourself."

These are the two commandments Jesus told us are the biggest commandments.
 
And it is written: "You shall love your brother as you love yourself."

These are the two commandments Jesus told us are the biggest commandments.
I don't have a brother thankfully.
 

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